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The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the Father

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Glory of God

The Trinity Doctrine is so preposterous that it contradicts the most basic and simple truths in scripture and causes much confusion and unnecessary division.

For example, the Holy Spirit came to Mary instead of Mary’s husband Joseph. Thus is the Holy Spirit the Father of Jesus, or is the Father? Explain that one with the confusing dogma of the Trinity.

John 15:26
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the Father and is not another person, nor an equal partner of a triune God.

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  • March 24, 2015 at 5:09 pm#791553
    kerwin
    Participant

    Nick,

    Hi KW,

    You must be transformed by the renewal of your mind.

    Reliance on natural reasoning is fallacious.

    It is true that you must be transformed by the renewal of your mind. I already claimed that it is not human reaoning that is fallacious but that which comes from the natural part of humanity. That human reasoning that is a gift of God; is a tool that resolves mysteries.

    March 24, 2015 at 5:18 pm#791555
    kerwin
    Participant

    Nick,

    Hi,

    Phil 2 is written in spiritual language designed to cause those bound by human intellect to stumble.

    “human intellect is the wrong words”

    Principles of man, aka natural man. is correct.

    Paul mentions the the Spiritual man vs the natural man elsewhere.

    It is also correct that you could use the words “human mindset” but too many do not stop to think that the word human is being used to speak of the natural man and not both the natural man and the Spiritual man.

    March 24, 2015 at 5:19 pm#791556
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    vanity vanity

    Where is natural reason exalted as God’s gift?

    The Spirit of God can help us understand the ways of God[1cor 2 10f]

    March 24, 2015 at 5:20 pm#791558
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    Man worships his mind.

    Big problem.

    March 24, 2015 at 5:24 pm#791560
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi kw

    Phil 3

    “whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of knowing Christ”

    Knowledge fits there

    March 24, 2015 at 5:28 pm#791561
    kerwin
    Participant

    Nick,

    Where is natural reason exalted as God’s gift?

    It is exalted by the fact God created humanity including his ability to reason. The misuse of that gift is not God’s gift.

    March 24, 2015 at 7:26 pm#791571
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    Focus on the Giver and do not gloat about the gift.

    March 25, 2015 at 10:13 am#791610
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    CHRIST Jesus existed in the form of God.

    Without the anointing Jesus was  just a man like us.

    With the anointing he was a man too. Did the anointing change his nature, species, being?

    Jesus came in the flesh yes. Is Jesus the flesh though? How can he be the flesh if he came in the flesh.

    Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.…

    or

    Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

    also

    For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.

    So he had the nature of God or existed in his form, then came in the flesh. Now he is back with God at his right-hand side in the glory that he had with God before the Cosmos.

    I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do. “Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

    March 25, 2015 at 10:27 am#791611
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    @DavidL

    We are talking about identity – who Jesus truly is…(not just His nature).

    But your judgement of Scripture is based on intellect rather than true discernment… yes, you try and take your idea of Jesus a step further toward the divine, than what the JW’s have given Him, but still you fall short of the reality..

    Consider this – how could it be possible for someone of basic intelligence… not understanding Greek or Hebrew or even English grammar (like fishermen say), to know who Jesus is..?

    You see, we actually don’t need theology… in fact it is this human reasoning that actually confounds the clear revelation of Scripture – and deceives us…!

    You say that Scripture is clear, that only the Father is the one true God…but this simply is not true, and is in fact the very reason why you are forced to alter key verses of the Bible so as to fit your teaching…(and, to explain away other texts that are a direct reference to His identity as God)…!

    Yes, He is the Son, just as He is Lord – yet He is God..! which is rejected by you because, just like the religious leaders of old, you have formed your own teachings.. and, spiritual truth can never be contained within the doctrines of men – God cannot be comprehended by logical explanations…it is simply given of the Spirit to those who receive His Word as Truth…

    It is the only way – Spiritual revelation is the rock upon which true faith is founded.

    Is this a joke? First off, we are told to do our best to present ourselves to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

    Secondly, I am quoting scripture and you are the one teaching an extra-biblical third century doctrine. Who is teaching theology here? If you really believed your own post, then why do you do that which you say we do not need? You teach the Trinity. That is a doctrine that resides outside of scripture and in the realm of theology as does many other Catholic doctrines and doctrines of other religions.

    • Scripture says: “For us there is one God the Father”.
      Your theology says: “For you, there is one God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit”.
      I am with Paul on this one and you oppose us.
    • Scripture says No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
      Your theology teaches that Men have seen God the second member of the Trinity God which is with the first member of the Trinity God.
      I am with John on this one and you oppose us.
    • Scripture says of Jesus, “You are the Christ, the son of the living God”
      Your theology says: “You are God the Son, the second member of the Triune God.
      I am with Peter on this one and you oppose us.
    • Scripture says: “eternal life is this, that you may know the only true God, AND Jesus Christ whom HE has sent”.
      Your theology says: “eternal life is that you may know the Trinity and Jesus Christ who is part of the Trinity that the other member of the Trinity sent”.
      I am with Jesus on this one and you oppose us.
    • Scripture says “this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased”.
      Your theology teaches that “this is the beloved second member of God in whom the first member is well pleased”.
      I am with the Father on this one and you oppose us.

    Come on. Let’s see you take your own advice and instead stick to scripture aye? Or will you fall back on your theology and tradition again? Do not be like the Pharisees. Do not miss the truth of who Jesus really is. The Pharisees missed out on who Jesus really was and they also claimed that Jesus said he was God just as you do. Listen to Jesus. He said he was the son of God. He also said that the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against the truth that he is the son of God and the messiah.

    Decide this day which side you are on regarding who Jesus is. He is the one whom God made both Lord and Messiah. He is also the son of the Living God. Confess this or the Trinity. Up to you to give up on man-made theology or correctly handle the word of God.

    March 25, 2015 at 10:56 am#791612
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    Indeed the brothers of Jesus remained men just as he is but with a difference

    He and they were of the eternal Spirit of life.

    Though they die yet they live.

    The Word was with God and was God

    The Word was made flesh by the obedience of the vessel Jesus.

    Then John the baptist could recognise his known to be cousin as the lamb of God.

    John the apostle could say he was in the beginning with God[jn1] and that all things had come into being through him.

    John also said again he was in the beginning with God and that they had had looked at and touched the Word of life.

     

    John was speaking of the Word that had become flesh in Jesus not just a man from Nazareth.

     

    The Spirit of the Son is the servant Spirit to God and thus is able to help us in our prayers to God[rom8. gal4]

    March 25, 2015 at 11:07 am#791618
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    John was spiritual.

    He recognised and glorified the Spirit in the man.

     

    But folk prefer to see only the vessel.

    Flesh contributes nothing.

    March 25, 2015 at 11:29 am#791626
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    God is Spirit.

    “..who being in the very nature God..”

    The Word is Spirit.

     

     

    March 25, 2015 at 11:38 am#791629
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    God is spirit.

    “the Word was God..}

    The Word is spirit.

    March 25, 2015 at 11:41 am#791630
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi,

    Jn3.21

    “He who comes from above is above all…He who comes from heaven is above all. What he has seen and heard , of that he testifies .”

     

    The Word is from heaven and was before John and is above all.

     

    Why do folk not hear the testimony of the Word and instead try to apply them to the vessel man of Nazareth?

     

    March 26, 2015 at 7:29 am#791679
    DavidL
    Participant

    t8

    you are the one teaching an extra-biblical third century doctrine

     

    Third century doctrine is your baby t8 – I have absolutely no interest in it, never have – never will..!!!

     

     

    What I have shown you consistently is the word of God (if you still disagree about this – then please try and produce anything I have ever posted that comes from man-made doctrine, and not straight from the Bible), I give you SCRIPTURE…because that is what I believe in – verses like, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS BORN, I AM….and your response..?

    Oh everyone used to say ‘I am’ back then…!?

     

    It is you t8 (hiding behind your own accusations, and religious veneer), that has created teachings based on your own reasoning – and then twisted Scripture (like all cults do), to fit YOUR OWN false doctrine.

     

    ..if this weren’t the case – I would’t be here wasting my time..!

     

     

     

     

    March 26, 2015 at 7:33 am#791682
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Do you not realise the Spirit was before Abraham.

    Listen to the Spirit.

    March 26, 2015 at 8:13 am#791692
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    In defence of your dogma you have not shown us scripture

    You have shown the ideas of men based on inference and false interpretation

    Yet you claim to love scripture??

    March 26, 2015 at 8:34 am#791701
    DavidL
    Participant

    Nick..(sigh)

    Is it wrong to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit..?

    March 26, 2015 at 8:38 am#791702
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Does it matter which name?

    acts 19

     

    In whose name did the apostles baptise?

    They sat at the feet of the master.

     

    Eusebius said he had an original copy of Matthew’s gospel in his library.

    Have you seen his quotes from it?

    March 26, 2015 at 8:39 am#791705
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Catholic tradition offers one option and the use in babies suggests a belief in magic

    Acts gives us many correct examples.

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