Man begats man, God begats …?

Is Jesus God himself because he came from the Father and has the same nature?

We know that God’s nature is divine.

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

We also know that there is only one God and He is the Father. God is a HE, not THEM as the doctrine of the Trinity suggests. Let me explain.

Let’s look at this from a different perspective. Adam was the first man right? But did you know that the word for ‘man’ in Genesis is ‘adam’?

Technically speaking then, Eve is ‘adam’ but not ‘Adam’. It is written that God created man (adam) male and female. This means she is part of mankind, but is not Adam who was the first man. There is only one Adam. Well there are actually two now because Jesus became the new / second / final Adam.

So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

Back to divine nature now. Does having divine nature make you God? The answer is no if you look at the next scripture.

Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Notice how we who are born from God have his nature, but we are obviously not God and never will be. Jesus said the following:

“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent,”

Jesus acknowledges here indirectly that he is not the one true God. But we do know for sure that he is the son of that one true God though. Notice how he said that this truth is eternal life. It seems imperative then that we believe what he says if those words were eternal life. Further he said the following:

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

So if we listen to Jesus, then we believe that he is the son of the one true God and not the one true God himself.

This topic has 448 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 8 months, 1 week ago by Proclaimer.

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May 9, 2015 at 2:12 pm#796900
DavidL
Participant
DO NOT BE DECEIVED BY CARNAL ARGUMENTS THAT DENY THE DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST..
“See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority.” – Colossians 2:9,10
“Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?” – Galatians 3:3
“The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.” – 1 Corinthians 2:14
“No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.” – 1 John 2:24
“For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.” – 1 Timothy 1:7
“But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.” – 2 Timothy 3:13,14
“Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge.” – 1 Timothy 6:20
“..hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it. For there are many rebellious people, full of meaningless talk and deception..” – Titus 1:9
COME BACK TO THE PURE WORD OF GOD..

May 9, 2015 at 2:29 pm#796901
NickHassan
Participant
Hi davidh,
So the fullness of Deity was in Jesus.
I agree.

A wonderful vessel for God to use for His purposes.
The flesh contributes nothing.

So leave the folly of trinity behind.
May 9, 2015 at 3:18 pm#796907
DavidL
Participant
So the fullness of Deity was in Jesus.
I agree.
don’t deceive yourself..
the fullness of Deity IS in Jesus.. Who IS the Head over all rule and authority..!!

You deny the Son – therefore you have not the Father..
give up your useless arguments.
May 9, 2015 at 11:17 pm#796926
NickHassan
Participant
Hi davidl,
It seems you are the one into self deception.
IN Jesus means just that.

And I do not deny the son of God.
Perhaps you do when you elevate him to be his own god?

May 9, 2015 at 11:42 pm#796927
Proclaimer
Participant
don’t deceive yourself..
the fullness of Deity IS in Jesus.. Who IS the Head over all rule and authority..!!
You deny the Son – therefore you have not the Father..
give up your useless arguments.
Who is closer to the one denying the son?
1) The one who says he is God
2) The one who says he is OF God, the IMAGE of God, the Firstborn of all creation
?
May 10, 2015 at 12:40 am#796928
Proclaimer
Participant
@DavidL
If you are a son of God, then if you told me you were God, then you would not by your definition be a son of God right.
Its the same simple truth with Jesus Christ. He is the son of God, so therefore he is not God, but his son.
He is the one that God made both Lord and Christ.
How about confessing that now. All will do that eventually. The earlier the better.
May 10, 2015 at 12:51 am#796929
Proclaimer
Participant
@DavidL
Jesus as the son of the living God and the messiah is a sure foundational truth that you can build your faith upon.
But if you build upon another foundation, your works will fall when that foundation falls and all foundations not of God will crumble.
Trust in the words of Peter when he said, “You are the son of the Living God and the Messiah”. Do not trust the philosophers who came up with doctrines outside of what is called, ‘Simplicity in Christ’. They will lead you astray with vain imaginations and so-called intellectual thought. They have become fools in God’s sight.
You are simply required to believe and know the Jesus who is the son of God and the messiah and his Father and God who is our Father and God. It is not hard. Do not complicate things. That leads to error. Keep it simple and keep it scriptural.
May 10, 2015 at 12:59 am#796930
Proclaimer
Participant
@AndrewAD
On the subject of who and what Christ Jesus is we can read it for ourselves. Many will deny this when you repeat it, but it is a scriptural truth about Jesus Christ. You can’t go wrong by accepting what is written below.
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Many are the excuses for denying this.
May 10, 2015 at 6:54 am#796948
NickHassan
Participant
hi davidl,
Scripture repeats the concept of God being IN Christ.

God was IN CHRIST reconciling the world to himself. 2cor 5.19
So does that make Christ GOD?

Again
God is at work IN YOU to will and to do.[phil 2.13]
Does that make YOU GOD?

It was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to DWELL IN HIM and through him to reconcile all things to Himself Col 1.18

Please take care with the sacred words
May 10, 2015 at 6:55 am#796949
NickHassan
Participant
Hi t8,
Yes the Word was God.
May 10, 2015 at 6:55 am#796950
NickHassan
Participant
Hi t8,
Yes the Word was God.
May 10, 2015 at 7:13 am#796951
NickHassan
Participant
Hi t8,
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God.
So the simple understanding of this to you is that an anointed man was a godly being?
No we have the geneology of Jesus written in mat 1.

So it has a spiritual meaning.

John said he had touched THE WORD.
John spoke of Word that was with God and was God.
This is the geneology of the Spirit of Christ.

The flesh contributes nothing.
May 12, 2015 at 4:05 am#797140
DavidL
Participant
t8
You are simply required to believe and know the Jesus who is the son of God and the messiah and his Father and God who is our Father and God. It is not hard. Do not complicate things. That leads to error. Keep it simple and keep it scriptural.
You don’t fool me one bit with your nice scriptural platitudes…saying all the ‘right’ things about your little jesus like every cult deceiver in sheep’s garb.. peddling your own anti-trinity teaching that effectively denies the very thing you ‘claim’ to promote – Jesus Christ the Son of GOD..!!
“I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.” – try confessing that one…!!!!
May 12, 2015 at 6:48 am#797149
NickHassan
Participant
Hi davidl,
Trinity is not taught in scripture
So if you are peddling it you are peddling ERROR.
May 19, 2015 at 11:12 am#797853
Proclaimer
Participant
@DavidL
“I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.” – try confessing that one…!!!!
I confess that Jesus and the Father are one. I also confess that we can be one and one with both the Father and the Son.
Can you confess our oneness I wonder?
May 19, 2015 at 11:13 am#797854
Proclaimer
Participant
Hi t8,
Yes the Word was God.
Was the Word THE God?
May 19, 2015 at 11:16 am#797857
Proclaimer
Participant
DO NOT BE DECEIVED BY CARNAL ARGUMENTS THAT DENY THE DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST..
“See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority.” – Colossians 2:9,10
But you twist this to mean that Jesus is God. If the fullness of humanity dwelt in me, does that make me Adam or adam?
You need to know the difference between identity and nature. If you confuse them, then all nature becomes identity, such as Jesus is God and Eve is Adam.
Nature is one thing, identity another. While God is divine, we can share in that divine nature. But we are not God because of that.
May 23, 2015 at 7:24 am#798267
DavidL
Participant
AGAIN – DO NOT BE DECEIVED BY CARNAL ARGUMENTS AGAINST THE DEITY OF CHRIST..
CHRIST IS BOTH GOD AND MAN –
thus in His own Being, He bridges the gap BETWEEN humanity and Divinity..

Because the Son is One with the Father in His Deity (with God as God) – we as branches can partake of that divine nature..
this doesn’t make us God – it makes us Christ-like
we become sons through THE Son – receiving THE DIVINE NATURE OF THE SON.
“For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him..”
May 23, 2015 at 7:35 am#798269
NickHassan
Participant
Hi davidl,
Scripture says
God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.
But you say God was in God??
Jesus is a man. acts 2.22 1 tim 2.5

The vine is similar to the branches but not that similar to the vinedresser.
May 23, 2015 at 7:40 am#798270
NickHassan
Participant
Hi davidl,
I think you are so entrenched in your view that Jesus IS a deity, rather than what scripture says that the fullness of deity was in him
that you are frightened of divine retaliation if you imagine otherwise.
But scripture is truth. “Thy Word is truth'”
There is no fear in love.
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