Was God Manifest in the Flesh?

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

This scripture infers that Jesus is God. Although you could argue that even we should manifest God in our lives knowing full well we are not God. Regardless, this verse is certainly a verse that Trinitarians use as a proof verse, and to the untrained eye, people may well accept that Jesus is God based on this verse alone.

But is this all there is to this matter.

Apparently this verse is controversial because most other translations do not say “God was manifest in the flesh”, rather they say “He was manifest in the flesh”.

So what is going on here. Why does the KJV say ‘God’ and most other translations say ‘He’?

I found this explanation in and thought it would be helpful to share it.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080728123800AALVzER

Thank you so much for this question. It is a very interesting one.

A few weeks ago, I inquired of a Greek translator who often posts on this site, asking him this very same thing. He kindly and carefully explained to me that, first off, one must understand the nomina sacra (sacred names). He explained that these are abbreviations, in early manuscripts, of certain names and titles.

In ancient manuscripts 1 Timothy 3:16 had the word “os” which looks like: “OC” and means “he”.

The nomina sacra of God looks like OC but it has a horizontal line through the middle of the O and a long horizontal line over both letters (as Abernathy, above, explained).

The Greek translator continues, and I quote: “In one old manuscript (Codex Alexandrinus) it seems to the nomina sacra, but an analysis of the manuscript demonstrated that the two horizontal lines were added centuries later.

Many late manuscripts have the nomina sacra, but all manuscripts earlier than about 800AD have OC “He”

So “He was manifest in the flesh” is supported by all the most ancient manuscripts, “God was manifest in the flesh” has no attestation before 800 AD.”

End quote.

Hannah J Paul

This topic is empty.

Viewing 20 posts - 21 through 40 (of 231 total)

←123…10 11 12 →

Author
Posts
October 5, 2014 at 9:14 pm#779284
NickHassan
Participant
Hi T8,
The people were right when they called out that God had visited His people.
They were used to the ways of God in the prophets and saw beyond the flesh.
October 5, 2014 at 9:21 pm#779285
NickHassan
Participant
Hi,
I am convinced that men worship men.
Why else are they so determined to see and hear only flesh?
Surely nobody imagines that the prophets worked in their own power and strength.

Jesus was the great prophet prophesied by Moses [acts 2-3] for some reason he is looked at differently.
Is it because we know so much more about him than the other prophets?

I guess the same things happened to Paul too.
He was going to be worshipped but he objected .
October 5, 2014 at 9:22 pm#779286
Ed J
Participant
Hi T8,
The people were right when they called out that God had visited His people.
They were used to the ways of God in the prophets and saw beyond the flesh.
Yes Nick,
“Believe me that I in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.” (John 14:11)
The people indeed saw a great light!
“beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations. The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light:” (Isaiah 9:1-2)
___________
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GOD
October 5, 2014 at 9:39 pm#779289
NickHassan
Participant
hi ED,
Yes.
Who is listening?
The same light seen in him should be seen everywhere by now.

Will there be faith on earth?
October 5, 2014 at 9:45 pm#779292
NickHassan
Participant
Hi ED,
IN HIM was life and that life was the light of the world
Jn .3

October 5, 2014 at 9:55 pm#779295
Ed J
Participant
Hi ED,
IN HIM was life and that life was the light of the world
Jn .3
Amen!
October 5, 2014 at 10:04 pm#779302
Proclaimer
Participant
T8,
No, it doesn’t infer any such thing? It instead infers that
Jesus manifested God in the flesh; there is a difference.
If it actually said “God was manifest in the flesh, it could indeed mean based on that sentence that Jesus is God. Of course it directly contradicts the rest of the Bible and it actually says “He was manifest in the flesh” anyway. Here are the two possible meanings that would not violate the rest of scripture.
1) “God was manifest in the flesh as meaning that God was manifest in Christ. While that is true, (that God was manifest in and through his son), the verse does not actually say that.
2) It is the son being referenced because older texts say ‘HE that was manifest in the flesh’. In addition all texts agree that he was also ‘taken up into glory’. Proof that it is the son, because the one true God was not taken up into glory. We are all in agreement that Christ was taken up into glory however.
October 5, 2014 at 10:06 pm#779303
NickHassan
Participant
Hi T8,
The words of God do not necessarily satisfy the linguistic demands of human logic
October 5, 2014 at 10:30 pm#779310
Proclaimer
Participant
True, but the one who was manifest in the flesh was also taken up into glory and is called “he”. I can only think of one person that this can be talking about. Is there another candidate?
October 5, 2014 at 10:40 pm#779316
Ed J
Participant
True, but the one who was manifest in the flesh was also taken up into glory and is called “he”. I can only think of one person that this can be talking about. Is there another candidate?
Hi T8,
Yes, the HolySpirit – which *IS* God manifested in the flesh. (see Acts 5:3-4)
___________
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GOD
October 5, 2014 at 10:50 pm#779320
Ed J
Participant
Hi T8,
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit,
seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” (1 Tim 3:16)
God (HolySpirit) was indeed manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit by the spirit of Christ(God’s Son),
God’s HolySpirit was seen of angels in this realm,
God’s HolySpirit was preached unto the Gentiles,
God’s HolySpirit was believed on in the world,
God’s HolySpirit was received up into glory.
___________
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GOD
October 5, 2014 at 11:49 pm#779334
Proclaimer
Participant
Hi T8,
Yes, the HolySpirit – which *IS* God manifested in the flesh. (see Acts 5:3-4)
It says that HE was taken up into glory. Does your Bible teach that the Holy Spirit was taken up into glory? Mine definitely teaches that Jesus was and is there now.
October 6, 2014 at 12:11 am#779338
Ed J
Participant
It says that HE was taken up into glory. Does your Bible teach that the Holy Spirit was taken up into glory? Mine definitely teaches that Jesus was and is there now.
Hi T8,
Did the HolySpirit not accompany “the Spirit of Christ” back to the Father?
October 6, 2014 at 12:14 am#779339
Proclaimer
Participant
Was not the Spirit with the people and is today with many people?
Your view of the Holy Spirit being taken up can only mean the Spirit is not here now.
Jesus said when he left, he would send another to his people, called the comforter.
October 6, 2014 at 12:30 am#779343
Ed J
Participant
(1)Was not the Spirit with the people and is today with many people?
(2)Your view of the Holy Spirit being taken up can only mean the Spirit is not here now.
(3)Jesus said when he left, he would send another to his people, called the comforter.
Hi T8,
1) Yep
2) You make many assumptions.
3) Please consider what John 14:23 says.
___________
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GOD
October 6, 2014 at 12:34 am#779344
Proclaimer
Participant
b)
i) So the Spirit was taken up into glory and also stayed?
ii) So the Spirit was taken up into glory and did not stay with God’s people?
And where does it say that the spirit was taken up into glory? I cannot think of a scripture off hand.
October 6, 2014 at 12:35 am#779345
Proclaimer
Participant
c)
So the Spirit went up into glory and came back down?
October 6, 2014 at 1:56 am#779350
kerwin
Participant
T8,
If it actually said “God was manifest in the flesh, it could indeed mean based on that sentence that Jesus is God.
Let us assume the wording “God was manifest in the flesh” is correct. Then the word manifest either means ” readily perceived by the senses and especially by the sense of sight” or “easily understood or recognized by the mind” neither of which literally means that God inhabited human flesh. So I do not see where anyone can get the idea that Jesus is God by those particular words. Maybe a friendlier version.
Note: My source is the Merriam-Webster online dictionary Oct 5, 2014 7:53AM central time entry for manifest.
October 6, 2014 at 2:02 am#779352
Ed J
Participant
So the Spirit went up into glory and came back down?
Hi T8,
The HolySpirit brought Jesus up to God’s right hand, and God sent the HolySpirit back to mankind.
___________
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GOD
October 6, 2014 at 2:10 am#779357
Proclaimer
Participant
Let us assume the wording “God was manifest in the flesh” is correct. Then the word manifest either means ” readily perceived by the senses and especially by the sense of sight” or “easily understood or recognized by the mind” neither of which literally means that God inhabited human flesh. So I do not see where anyone can get the idea that Jesus is God by those particular words.
Yes if it actually said that, then that could be the only view so as to not contradict the rest of scripture.
But taken on its own and ignoring all context and the rest of scripture it could mean Jesus was God though. But we know that it was the Word that became flesh and that Yeshua came in the flesh. Also, the scripture says, “he” and he was taken up into glory and we know that Yeshua was taken up in glory.
Yeshua was manifest or came in the flesh. The antichrist spirit of course will look at a way around the point that he came in the flesh. It will try to replace Yeshua with someone else or find some other way of denying that he came in the flesh. And saying that God became flesh of course is to say that God became a man which we are clearly told that God is not a man that he should lie.
Author
Posts

Viewing 20 posts - 21 through 40 (of 231 total)

←123…10 11 12 →

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Recent Replies

Forums

Forum Topics

POPULAR WRITINGS

Study Tools

ABOUT THIS SITE

Navigation