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The Rise of ISIS

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  • December 19, 2014 at 2:59 am#787238
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Look at what you are saying Kerwin.

    And compare it with the fact that the legs were made totally of iron and the feet made of iron MIXED with clay.

    So it was both strong and weak.

    Mixed is the word ‘arab’.

    So the feet was part Rome (iron) and part something else which weakened it.

    The very concerns you raise actually sway toward validating the theory IMO.

    December 19, 2014 at 6:03 am#787240
    terraricca
    Participant

    hI all

    read this;

    As you saw the iron mixed with clay, so will they mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall this kingdom be left to another people. It shall crush all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever; 45 just as you saw that a stone was cut from the mountain not by hands, and that it crushed the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. The great God has informed the king what shall be hereafter. The dream is certain, and its interpretation trustworthy.”

    not a mixed people but a mixed alliances this can be seen of those that became Rome after Alexander death and his four general split the empire the next 2 centuries shows what is really happen ;

    and yes it is during that divided (clay and iron period) that Christ come up to set up God’s kingdom

    December 19, 2014 at 10:45 am#787248
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    No possibility then that the Romans were invaded and mixed with others such as the Turks?

    Even the religion of that world changed as a result. The seven churches of Revelation are now Muslim areas.

    If not, then why would it mention this at all because all empires mix with themselves. Its called population growth.

    December 19, 2014 at 10:51 am#787249
    kerwin
    Participant

    @t8,

    It is my understanding the link to the Ottoman Empire is to show is the the beast whose head is healed that is mentioned in Revelations 13.  The heads in Daniel prophecy in chapter 7:6 spoke of four successor states as still being the empire.  He also used wings to represent them.  All four were essentially Greek in nature though at least the one whose capital was Alexandria was influenced by the native religion of the area.

    Seven  heads sound more like an alliance or agreement between seven successor states than the reestablishment of an Empire.  The head that was healed may well be a nation that was though to be dying or dead as being recovered.

    I believe Babylon, Persian, Greek, and Roman Empires all possessed the city of Babylon and the Holy Land.

    I do not believe the beast that is healed has to control either of those.

    ISIS does not seem to have anything to do with it.  Seven Muslim caliphates seem doubtful as both the Shiites  and Sunnis seem to insist on one.

    I believe the threat is more from Secularism and Islam.  The Secularist could be titular Muslims.

    December 19, 2014 at 11:10 am#787251
    kerwin
    Participant

    T8,

    I believe China would have called the change of the Byzantines to Ottomans a change of dynasties.  As far as I know the Ottomans did not supplant the Byzantine people.    There was a change in culture and religion over time but at least the first Emperor of the Ottomans did not force it from what I know.

    The Palaiologoi family may still be around though they lost support centuries ago.

    If you go with that idea then the Ottoman Empire would just have been part of the legs made of Iron.  The states that now exist would be the iron mixed with clay.

    I am not really insisting on it so much as thinking through and testing ideas.

    December 19, 2014 at 12:05 pm#787252
    terraricca
    Participant

    @t8

    No possibility then that the Romans were invaded and mixed with others such as the Turks?

    correct , the 7th head or king would be a empire that would influence all other and i don’t know anyone other than the british that as had so much influence in the world and the successors would be the alliance of the commonwealth,or known as the western power,

    including the USA ,and Canada ,and europe,and,,,

    December 20, 2014 at 11:56 am#787289
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Obviously you are not reading my posts Kerwin, your way off track with the theory. I have tried to correct you on some points that you have misunderstood, but you continue anyway. I don’t think there is any point discussing this topic with you, but I welcome those who will take the time to consider the points and evaluate with an open mind.

    December 20, 2014 at 12:13 pm#787290
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    correct , the 7th head or king would be a empire that would influence all other and i don’t know anyone other than the british that as had so much influence in the world and the successors would be the alliance of the commonwealth,or known as the western power,

    including the USA ,and Canada ,and europe,and,,,

    The point I see here is that all the heads of the Beast were Middle Eastern and extended into Europe, except the first phase of the Roman Empire which was essentially European and extended into the Middle East. However, its last phase was certainly Middle Eastern which lasted for 1000 years or so. This last phase was the most significant phase in that empire.

    I think it goes against the pattern to consider anything outside of this part of the world as part of the Beast. To me, the Beast lurks around the land of Israel ready to devour her offspring.

    The Ottoman Empire was truly an empire, it lasted for a considerable amount of time, it even extended into Southern Europe, and it was truly by nature antichrist. Further, it conquered and/or took over the previous empire, in the same fashion as the other empires and this Beast was continuous, meaning that there was always a ruling empire since Egypt, but the reign of empires ended when the Ottoman Empire collapsed.

    And because the eighth and final kingdom is of the seven, then it has to be a short resurrection of the seventh (the one after Rome) and not of the others. However, it will likely rule the same area as the others, so it will encompass the same Middle East and retain characteristics of previous empires that still exist in the Middle East.

    Also, with that whole area being predominantly Muslim and with the excessive persecution of Christian and Jew, I personally see Christians at least enduring tribulation, decapitation, rape, and death. We should pray for our brethren there. It must be very hard to be tolerant and loving toward enemies that want you dead.

    The Beast has really never had anything to do with China, the Americas, Asia, and Australasia. Bear in mind that all these existed even in the days of the other heads of the Beast with the exception of all of Australasia. (New Zealand was became inhabited around 1000 AD.) I don’t see this changing. The area the Beast lives is in is the Middle East and parts of Europe and perhaps slightly beyond. It has always been there and I have no reason to believe it will move to another area of the planet.

    Finally, we are told that Rome would trample the whole Earth and yet what that meant was that part of the world. Rome never trampled China, Australia, USA, or Russia. So there is nothing in scripture to say that the seventh and eighth will encompass the entire planet as has been traditionally thought. In fact we are told that the Antichrist will make war against the most terrible of nations. So there are great and powerful nations outside of his domain.

    I don’t think I can make it any clearer than that.

    December 20, 2014 at 4:09 pm#787294
    terraricca
    Participant

    t8

    I think it goes against the pattern to consider anything outside of this part of the world as part of the Beast. To me, the Beast lurks around the land of Israel ready to devour her offspring.

    this thinking to me is wrong ; Israel does no longer exist as a Godly nation but as a man made nation ,not of God ,

    now the british were in Egypt and controlled Israel area and palestine at the time ,

    and what as australian aboriginals to do on the map of power ? or the indians in the americas ? or in the amazon ? zero

    China was a nation divided in itself, not a power to be bother with ;but in the past 2 centuries which nation out stands all the others ?

    the eighth king is coming after the resurrection not before to my understanding ;

    December 20, 2014 at 7:30 pm#787295
    kerwin
    Participant

    @T8,

    My point is that there is no real evidence to connect ISIS with the the beast that comes forth from the Sea.

    December 20, 2014 at 7:38 pm#787296
    kerwin
    Participant

    @t8,

    The Arab League is a better candidate as it has seven founding nations which are “Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Transjordan (Jordan from 1946) and Yemen (North Yemen, later combined Yemen”.  Yemen or Syria could be considered the wounded head.

    December 23, 2014 at 1:17 am#787398
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Kerwin, five kings have fallen, one was, and one to come. Then from the seventh would come and eighth.

    2000 years later, Rome has fallen and so has the seventh too, but there was none to takes its place. No eighth head because the Beast received a mortal wound.

    But now we see a possible eighth rising out of what was once the seventh. The Beast rises again but will remain for a short time only. It’s metal is weak.

    Whether you like it or not the pic below shows the seven empires that ruled that part of the world in succession.

    Unlike a prediction this is history. History has already taken place.

    Whether it has anything to do with eschatology is a matter that we need to determine. But there is no question about it being history.

    December 23, 2014 at 9:24 am#787403
    kerwin
    Participant

    &T8,

    Egypt and Assyria were not part of the statue that was recorded in Daniel.  I do not believe either Egypt or Assyria ever controlled Judea which first fell to Babylon.  The rest have.

    Why are they attached?

     

     

    December 23, 2014 at 10:49 am#787414
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Hi Kerwin. I have replied over here:

    Is Islam mentioned in the Bible?

    December 23, 2014 at 2:19 pm#787437
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Author’s journey inside ISIS

    They’re ‘more dangerous than people realize – CNN

    Juergen Todenhoefer’s journey was a tough one: dangerous, but also eye-opening. The author traveled deep into ISIS territory — the area they now call their “caliphate” — visiting Raqqa and Deir Ezzor in Syria, as well as Mosul in Iraq.

    Mosul, Iraq’s second largest city, was taken by ISIS in a Blitzkrieg-like sweep in June.

    Todenhoefer managed to visit the mosque there where the leader of ISIS, Abu Bakr al-Bagdadi, gave his only public address.

    And he saw the realities of daily life under ISIS, with all shops having to close for prayers in the middle of the day.

    “There is an awful sense of normalcy in Mosul,” Todenhoefer said in an exclusive interview with CNN.

    “130,000 Christians have been evicted from the city, the Shia have fled, many people have been murdered and yet the city is functioning and people actually like the stability that the Islamic State has brought them.”

    Source – CNN

    December 24, 2014 at 2:33 pm#787531
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    ISIL sounds like an Arabic word which means “to crush under foot”

    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/18/politics/pentagon-now-calls-isis-daesh/index.html?iref=obnetwork

    December 24, 2014 at 11:39 pm#787561
    Camillia
    Participant

    Isis issues list of seven rules for Christians in Raqqa

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-issues-list-seven-rules-christians-raqqa-pray-quietly-not-public-1480783

    Islamic State (Isis) have released a list of seven rules which all Christians living in Syrian city Raqqa must obey.

    The statement opens with a quote from the Quran, which reads: “Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgement of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.”

    It goes on to declare that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the self-styled caliph of Islamic State, had given safety to Christians, promising to protect “their selves, children, money and churches.”

    The promised safeguard comes with a list of seven clear rules, forbidding public worship and treachery against IS.

    Under IS, Christians in Raqqa are no longer allowed to construct churches in their villages or even repair any damaged churches.

    They are also banned from publicly showing their crosses in Muslim areas, or in their own market places. All acts of worship must be carried out with minimal noise as IS have forbidden Christians to “raise their voices when praying or in other acts of worship.”

    The statement specifically states that “Muslims do not hear the recitation of their books out loud”, effectively banning any Christians from openly reading the Bible or singing psalms. Likewise, all acts of worship must be carried out inside a church and under no circumstances should acts of worship be performed in public.

    Christians have also been ordered not to prevent any of their fellow Christians from converting to Islam and that they should never “make a mockery” of Islam and Muslims.

    A clear warning has also been made to Christians living in Raqqa. IS have declared that it is illegal, under pain of death, for Christians to “carry out any actions of enmity to the Islamic State such as helping air strikes locate their positions.”

    IS recently executed three men in Raqqa, for being found guilty of placing beacons near strategic buildings and aiding coalition air strikes.

     

     

    December 25, 2014 at 12:59 am#787575
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    As bad as that is, it is not as bad as being beheaded or crucified which ISIS are guilty of.

    We need to pray for our brethren in that part of the world. Pray that they keep their faith and do not give up.

    December 25, 2014 at 1:05 am#787580
    Camillia
    Participant

    Yes, t8, good thing to pray about.

     

     

    December 28, 2014 at 12:51 pm#787879
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Boy volunteers for suicide attack so he could leave ISIS

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2888512/Shocking-moment-14-year-old-Syrian-boy-volunteered-suicide-bomber-escape-ISIS-removes-bomb-vest-Baghdad-mosque-meant-blow-up.html#ixzz3N94E5u2q

    ‘I volunteered for suicide attack so I could leave ISIS’: Shocking moment disillusioned 14-year-old recruit has bomb vest removed after handing himself in to guards rather than blowing up Baghdad mosque

    • Usaid Barho was recruited by extremists in home town of Manbij in Syria
    • Teen said he was given a choice of becoming a fighter or suicide bomber
    • 14-year-old opted for the latter believing he could immediately surrender
    • Target was a Shi’ite mosque in the Bayaa district of Iraq’s capital Baghdad
    • But instead of detonating the bomb he surrendered himself to the guards
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