• Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    T8,

    You wrote so long, and yet most of your writings are just the synthesis of your mind, not the Scripture.

    And when talking about the scripture, you pretty much stick ONLY to Paul’s teaching, and even so, you stick only to a part of Paul’s teaching, and draw conclusion based on that part, and IMPOSED that on the entire Scripture.

    And yet you…[Read more]

  • Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    T8,

    You wrote so long, and yet most of your writings are just the synthesis of your mind, not the Scripture.

    And when talking about the scripture, you pretty much stick ONLY to Paul’s teaching, and even so, you stick only to a part of Paul’s teaching, and draw conclusion based on that part, and IMPOSED that on the entire Scripture.

    And yet you…[Read more]

  • Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    T8,

    And one thing that I am not sure if you are aware of is that Roman Catholicism has gone too far by teaching that Mary also takes part in the redemption of man by Jesus Christ, which is called, co-redemptrix. This is, I believe, unbiblical. They even pray to Mary, which they claim to be praying THROUGH Mary, but which actually is not the case…[Read more]

  • Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    T8,

    Trinity is the Roman Catholic faith?

    Correct, but NOT ENTIRELY CORRECT. As usual. You take a part of the truth and consider it the whole truth.

    The belief in the Holy Trinity is the belief of the original church. This can be proven from the fact that the Ortodox Churches, which are as old as the Roman Catholic church, also believe in this…[Read more]

  • Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    T8,

    Trinity is the Roman Catholic faith?

    Correct, but NOT ENTIRELY CORRECT. As usual. You take a part of the truth and consider it the whole truth.

    The belief in the Holy Trinity is the belief of the original church. This can be proven from the fact that the Ortodox Churches, which are as old as the Roman Catholic church, also believe in this…[Read more]

  • Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    T8,

    I am NOT a Roman Catholic. I think Catholic has some wrong teachings, especially about Mary and statues.

    I am a Protestant, I follow only the Scripture, not tradition.

    My version of Trinity? I don’t know… I just read the Scripture, and it teaches that Jesus is the Son of God, and that Jesus is God, and the Father is God. Jesus is distinct…[Read more]

  • Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    T8,

    I am NOT a Roman Catholic. I think Catholic has some wrong teachings, especially about Mary and statues.

    I am a Protestant, I follow only the Scripture, not tradition.

    My version of Trinity? I don’t know… I just read the Scripture, and it teaches that Jesus is the Son of God, and that Jesus is God, and the Father is God. Jesus is distinct…[Read more]

  • Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    Terrarica,

    WHICH QUESTION of yours have I not answered? Tell me and I will answer it.

    Read Hebrew 1:8-12

    8 But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
    9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of…[Read more]

  • Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    T8,

    You said:

    Rubbish. If you believed them, then you would accept the distinction between God and the son or God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    =====

    I do accept the distinction between God and the son of God. Dont’ you see? The diagram that you posted, that shows that Jesus IS NOT the Father and is NOT the Holy Spirit, but it also shows that He…[Read more]

  • Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    T8,

    You said:

    Rubbish. If you believed them, then you would accept the distinction between God and the son or God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    =====

    I do accept the distinction between God and the son of God. Dont’ you see? The diagram that you posted, that shows that Jesus IS NOT the Father and is NOT the Holy Spirit, but it also shows that He…[Read more]

  • Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    Terraricca,

    4 letters? Not correct? Which letters? You mean YHWH? You want it to be YHVH? Whatever, that is translation, the original is in Hebrew יָהוֶה , and some English speakers prefers Jehovah, Javanese use Yehuwah, but it’s just translation, and it is not the main point. The main point is, who is the God that Abraham, Moses, and Isaiah…[Read more]

  • Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    Terraricca,

    4 letters? Not correct? Which letters? You mean YHWH, you want it to be YHVH? Whatever, that is translation, the original is in Hebrew יָהוֶה , and some English speakers prefers Jehovah, Javanese use Yehuwah, but it’s just translation, and it is not the main point. The main point is, who is the God that Abraham, Moses, and Isaiah…[Read more]

  • Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    Terrarica,

    Which pagan? Islamic belief? Haha.. I think your belief is pretty similar to Islam, that God is only One person and can only be one person. Not unique, but simple, One. There you have it. The only difference between yours and Islam is that you acknowledge that your God has a Son, whereas Islam does not, but the essence of the god is…[Read more]

  • Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    T8,

    You know these verses, definitely:

    John 6:46 “Not that anyone has seen the Father, ……………..

    John 1:18  No one has seen God at any time……..

    1 John 4:12  No one has seen God at any time…….

    However, we read in the OT that Abraham, Moses, and Isaiah SAW God, not in a vision, but saw God with their eyes:

    Genesis 18:

    1  Then [Read more]

  • Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    T8,

    You know these verses, definitely:

    John 6:46 “Not that anyone has seen the Father, ……………..

    John 1:18  No one has seen God at any time……..

    1 John 4:12  No one has seen God at any time…….

    However, we read in the OT that Abraham, Moses, and Isaiah SAW God, not in a vision, but saw God with their eyes:

    Genesis 18:

    1  Then [Read more]

  • Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    T8,

    And btw, what is the difference between your belief and JW’s? I thought you are pretty much the same… both do not believe that Jesus is God.

  • Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    T8,

    I BELIEVE in those verses that you show me. I have read all of them many times.

    Now, please help me to understand this: how do those verses prove that Jesus is NOT God?

  • Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    T8,

    I BELIEVE in those verses that you show me.

    Now, please help me to understand this: how do those verses prove that Jesus is NOT God?

  • Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    Terraricca,

    Which question? That whether I assumed God has a beginning?

    I do not assume that God has a beginning. I believe God has no beginning, because He is the beginning, but the Scripture says that “In the beginning”, and this does not mean that God has a beginning, but simply that “in the beginning, the Word was with God and the Word…[Read more]

  • Profile picture of Togel

    Togel replied to the topic Revelation 1:8 in the forum Truth or Tradition 8 years ago

    Terraricca,

    Which question? That whether I assumed God has a beginning?

    I do not assume that God has a beginning. I believe God has no beginning, because He is the beginning, but the Scripture says that “In the beginning”, and this does not mean that God has a beginning, but simply that “in the beginning, the Word was with God and the Word…[Read more]

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