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[seminarian]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ July 16 2004,08:12)

Firstly, I don't believe that the Holy Spirit is currently in heaven. He's here on earth indwelling His church. Since you disagree with my interpretation, perhaps you might do me a favour and enlighten me with the “real meaning” of the verses. You dont have to explain them all to me, Mat 3:16,17, 2 Cor 13:14 and Ps 2 will suffice.

Is,

Firstly? O.k. If you go to the original Greek texts and Codices you will find there are no capitalizations or lowercase letters at all. In fact, there aren't even spaces between the words. Therefore capitalization of holy spirit to make it appear to be a god-person was added by translators. In many instances the holy spirit has no gender article either. The holy spirit is simply an “it”.

Here's your scriptures: Mat 3:16-17

If we are to read this the way you wish us to, the thrid person of the so called trinity, i.e., the Holy Spirit became a dove and landed on Lord Jesus' shoulder after baptism. Now, does the Bible actually say this. No.

2 Corn 13:14

The word “fellowship” is also translated as the “communion” of the holy spirit. This would make sense because it is through our spirit and God's that we commune with Him. No big revelation there. Still there's no “he” or “him” present in the original Greek. I would suggest purchasing a good Greek-English Interlinear so that you can better see what I am talking about.

Psalm 2 (I don't know what verse you are referring to. I could find nothing pertaining to the holy spirit there. Maybe this is another type-o?)

The last point is pretty obvious because it is so simple. God the Father has a name, Yahweh. So does His Son, Yahshua. So why doesn't the Holy Spirit have a name? If you can find it in scripture, I would like to see it, (or him).

Blessings,

Semmy

[seminarian]

Welcome Karen,

Very fine post Mercy.  The point is, MANY churches do not believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God. The Catholic church is foremost among these as they give their traditions equal weight with scripture.  They refer to events cited in the Bible as “stories” given similar credibility as one of Aesoph's Fables.

You might wish to read the works of the reknowned Sir William Mitchell Ramsay who was a famous and well educated (Oxford) British Archeologist. From 1880 onwards he travelled widley in Asia Minor and rapidly became the recognized authority on all matters relating to the districts associated with St Paul's missionary journeys and on Christianity in the early Roman Empire.

Ramsey's impact on historical and archeological Church History is immense. Some of his most important works are: The Church in the Roman Empire, St Paul the Traveller and the Roman Citizen, Was Christ born at Bethlehem?, The Letters to the Seven Churches of Asia, The Cities of St Paul, Luke the Physician.

In his work, Luke the Physician, Ramsay studied the book of Luke for authenticity against the archeological evidences.  His conclusion was that Luke was quite reliable and would be considered foremost among the best of historians.

Everything we know about Christ shows that he and his apostles believed the Biblical accounts as being true and trustworthy.  “It is written”, often proceeded out of our Lord's mouth before he spoke, especially when refuting Satan after his 40 days in the wilderness.  If we are true disciples of Christ, we should have the same mindset as our Master.

I specifically asked people who do not believe the Bible is inspired of God, what then do they base their faith and doctrine on.  They could not give me more than a “touchy feely” description of their walk with God.  So that is what your grandson will be left with.  I'm not sure how old he is but if
he's between 10-12, you might want to get The Picture Bible from Cook Communications.  The Biblical accounts are very well organized using comic strip style illustrations but tastefully done.  It will show him that the Bible is a very real, accurate historical book.  More than that, it will make clear God's plan for the redemption of man.

Praying for both you and your Grandson,

Semmy

[seminarian]

Quote (Robyn † @ Aug. 21 2006,18:32)

Quote (seminarian @ Aug. 21 2006,17:51) If Nick is wrong or somehow uninformed as to scripture, it is your duty to correct him………. Nope..Nick is right… and so are you semmy. Everything is right because you think it..therfore it is correct and Gods way.

Hi Robyn,

You reply here only proves my point even more so. If you can't come up with the “goods”, i.e. the Bible verses to correct Nick or me, then perhaps it would be better to remain silent as you have. Well done.

God bless and keep you,

Semmy

[seminarian]

Hey Nick and Heiscomingintheclouds,

This came up in minister certification class last week.  What a debate!  These are the points I raised and the instructor could not refute it. I believe the Bible teaches
that our spirit or breath returns to God such as when Stephen was martyred in Acts and called for the Lord Jesus to receive his spirit.

However, 1 Thessolonians 4:16 clearly teaches that upon Chirst's return, the DEAD IN CHRIST will rise first.  Paul goes on to speak of a secret that we shall not all sleep in death but goes on to confirm that the final resurrection will occur in the twinkling of an eye, at the sound of the last trump.  That would be the trumpet sounded at Christ's return so it dovetails with 1 Thess. 4:16.

Ezekiel 18:1 says, “The soul WHO sins is the one who will die.”  Sounds like the whole person to me.  Why would Christ need to resurrect someone if they were already with him in heaven in some form?

Remember how hard Paul came down on Hymeneus and Philetus, who SWERVE AS TO TRUTH, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and are subverting the faith of some” (II Tim. 2:18)
It would seem that saying that people have already been resurrected to their heavenly glory NOW would be saying the same thing as Hymeneus and Philetus.  Much Greek mythology has to do with all of these concepts of souls living on elsewhere after death. We have to sift carefully.

One thing I will say is that there is a void of time in death.  I believe its like falling asleep and next thing you know you're high-fiving the Lord in the air!  That is how Paul could say that we would be changed in a twinkling of an eye.  In our concept of time, it will be instant but really not before the Lord Jesus returns to resurrect those dead in Christ.

Just my 5 cents,

What do you guys think?

Semmy

[seminarian]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 22 2006,05:58)

These are the facts: There is one Body/Church Its head is Christ Jesus The JWs are a body just as the Catholics are too But neither are the Body of Christ, rather the bodies of man The Church came into being approx 2000 years ago and the gates of hell would not prevail against her. The JWs came into being recently, not 2000 years ago, They have their own foundation and apostles etc No man can lay another foundation however It was written that many would rise up from among the believers and draw men to THEMSELVES. The fruit of these men are denominations. (Lutherans  – Martin Luther), (Catholics – Athanasius), (JWs – perhaps Arius). The JWs came into being around a man and helped by others later on, but that man wasn't Christ Jesus. As Christians, we should recognise the true body of Christ. As Christians we should be one in spirit and truth. JWs are not one with believers. They consider themselves exclusive. E.g., I wouldn't be a true believer to them because I am not a JW. A JW cannot be at one with a spirit filled believer who doesn't belong to the JWs. Of course Paul wasn't a JW, yet somehow they cater for those who are obvious christians but who were not JWs for reason of exisiting before that organisation. I think this wouldn't include Paul if he lived today, because he wouldn't be a JW. So they think that Paul is a man of God because he existed before the JWs, but not today if he lived and wasn't a JW. Remember when he spoke about division by saying “Are you a follower of Paul, Apollos, Christ”? What was his conclusion. Therefore he wouldn't be a follower of any denomination would he? Conclusion: The JW organisation is another body that is not only different to the Body of Christ in identity, but also is not in unity with the Body of Christ as a whole. Some individuals from within the JWs may well be true believers and part of the universal Body of Christ, even if they do not know it. But in order to be free to serve God in SPIRIT and TRUTH, they should come out of her, just as believers should come out of the Roman Catholic organisation. We need to follow Christ, not Martin Luther, Athanasius, Arius, nor myself. We can learn from people, but a true teacher doesn't draw men unto himself, rather he will point people to Christ.

Hi Rejoycesing,

T8's response here is dead on. The JW's, Mormons and Christian Scientists are all built around the teachings of one charismatic leader…and he wasn't Christ. JW's came out of the Millerite Movement with it's Great Disappointment. Look it up. The Millerites like the Russelites made false prophecies about the second coming of Christ. All failed obviously.

When Russell's, (started the JW's), prophecy failed to materialize, he simply lied and convinced people Christ had in fact returned as he said but invisibly! This is of course contrary to what the Bible actually teaches, that EVERY eye will see him in Revelation 1:7.

Take Nick's advice and don't let someone sell you a bill of goods. Look into the church's doctrine and history YOURSELF.
Just remember, being a member of a particular church or organization does not save you. Only the Blood of Christ can redeem. That is why there is but ONE mediator between God and man, the MAN Christ Jesus. [1Timothy 2:5] A church, religious organization, its leaders, pastors or priests can not mediate anything.

Be blessed,

Semmy

[seminarian]

Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 23 2006,01:34)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 23 2006,01:22) Hi H, Are we not even allowed to be berean about your contributions? wow Nick, Your post claimed the posts that I posted were my opinions. The problem is I can not take credit for them and if I were to do so, I would be a liar. If the posts are untrue, then one could claim that they are my posts. Yet, if the posts are true then they come from God, for let God be true for men are liars. For all truth comes from God.

Hi H,

Did you ever look up that Sacred Name KJV link I gave you?
I agree that God be found true though every man a liar. However even prophets who prophesy, (they are speaking directly FOR God), have to have at least 2 or 3 other prophets standing by to see if what is said is in fact scriptural.

“And prophets, let two or three speak and let the others discern. [1 Corn 14:29]

Many people say God gave me this revelation or this word. Hey, I do it myself because since I was baptised at 12 I've had the manifestation of speaking in tongues and prophesy! Still, we must discern if this is in fact from God or not. We all make mistakes, (even us prophets), that's why the Bible has checks and balances to prevent the Body of Christ from being deceived.

Bless ya'

Semmy

[seminarian]

Hi Robyn,

I just wanted to say bless you and my seminary's director is Catholic even though the studies are ecumenical.  He is one of the most knowledgable people I know on how to live the Gospel of Christ even if I do not agree with all of his theology.

You mentioned belief in the Nicene Creed?  Did you know that the Catholic Church also wrote the Apostles Creed?  The Aposlte's Creed predates and was written long before the Nicene Creed and then later the Athanasian Creed of the 4th century.

The Apostles Creed makes no mention of Jesus being God.  It clearly says that God is the Father and His Son is the Lord Jesus.  The point I am making is that none of these creeds of men are in the Bible so we should not take them as Gospel.  Second of all, if you read the Apostles Creed and compare it to the Athanasian Creed, they are worlds apart.  This shows that the trinity was a developing idea, not taught by anyone in the Bible.  In fact the word trinity or triune do not appear in the Codices text at all.

Regarding your post to Nick here:

“Well Nick…what can I say?  You are right and everyone else is wrong.  the gospel of Jesus Christ circles around you.”

If Nick is wrong or somehow uninformed as to scripture, it is your duty to correct him using the Bible.  Titus 1:9 says, “We must hold to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.”  Making sweeping statements like that does not qualify as such.  When people post things like that, it is a clear indicator that they can not come back with a scriptural rebuttal to prove their beliefs.

Semmy

[seminarian]

Is,

The pastor in question is an obvious apostate for slandering in the first
place is he not? Therefore the scriptures which apply to a “brother in Christ”
do not include someone who accuses the brethren like Satan.

Wow, thanks for the clarification on E-Maniac's action figure!
Yours is even worse. Pokemon I assume?

Grow up please, both of you. This forum is for adults last time I checked.

Semmy

[seminarian]

Is,

You call this an answer to my question: “Does Jesus have a God?”

“Jesus has a God because He is also a man, born of woman and born under the law (Gal. 4:4). As a man, if He does not have His Father as His God, and all that that entails, He would have been a transgressor of that law. Is His Father a man? No. That is why He doesn’t have a God, Seminarian. It's really quite simple.” END

This is simple? This is the same dual nature of Jesus garbage that is not in the Bible!!! Didn't I just say your answer had to be from the Bible? His Father couldn't be a man? Who said he was? This is nothing but doublespeak nonsense. “Uh, yeah he has a God but no he really doesn't have a God in the true sense.” What

So Jesus is a liar when he STILL says he has both a God and Father AFTER he has returned to Heaven? Why would he need to say that now? He's no longer a man, right?

Get your Bible out now:

Read Revelation 3:12. Here the Lord Jesus is EXALTED and in Heaven and he says:

Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of MY GOD..

He says this three times in this verse alone. Below this is being said OF Christ in Revelation 1:6..

“..and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve HIS GOD AND FATHER…”

Last of all our Lord is STILL being given Revelations by God the Father….BACK IN HEAVEN:

The revelations of Jesus Christ which GOD GAVE HIM. Rev. 1:1

So your answer just doesn't hold water. He is no longer “a man” as he has returned
to heaven. So why is he still calling Yahweh his Father and God? You know what? I'm going
to believe what comes out of my Lord Jesus' mouth over yours. You've only spoken gibberish.
The Lord's words are clear also when he said that his Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD. (John 17:3)

Jesus said, “Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the ONLY true God AND Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”

The Lord Jesus is here referring to someone other than himself as the ONLY TRUE GOD, (the Father), which means there can be no others. He then lists himself seperately as the one whom the Father has sent. Now that's Very simple.

Summary: You can't be God or equal to God and HAVE A GOD at the same time. Your dual nature answer is simply smouldering in flames here. I told you not to use extra-Biblical doctrines but just like a trained seal you jumped right according to hand signals! Your mind is so preprogrammed that I can tell what you are going to write before you even type it.

Your two questions are irrelevant because it assumes the logos is referring to a pre-incarnate being in the first place. The scriptures do not conclude such as capitilaztions have been placed there by the translators which were not present in the original Greek.

Nice try. Stop wasting your time.

Unbelieveable,

Semmy

[seminarian]

My 2 cents?

In Jesus' time, the Gospel accounts are full of demons inhabiting humans and giving them super human strength such as the man who approached Jesus after having broken his chains.

This is well after Noah's day when angels DID apparently have the power to form human bodies for themselves in order to co-habit with the daughters of men, (namely all whom they chose).  This was not purposed for them but aberrant behavior which yielded genetic freaks.

God had to destroy them because they could have ruined the blood line of the coming Messiah.
One other thing.  God does not hold angels against their will any more than He does us.  That's why a third of them left their places in heaven to enjoy sex with women.  I mean they DO see everything that we humans do.  Their eyes caused them to lust after something that was not for them, so they gave in to that temptation willingly.  

Makes you think that if angels can be tempted to fall, we REALLY need to stay in union with the Lord Jesus!

I'm out of here before I get into trouble….

Semmy

[seminarian]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Aug. 20 2006,00:33)

Hello t8, Well it's been a week and by my reckoning you have yet to produce one verse that shows that there was a pre-incarnation begettal. Should I assume that the cornerstone of your entire Christology is totally unsupported by scripture?? Sure looks that way….. I am also waiting for an answer to this question: What does it mean that Yahshua is the Son of God? Seminarian refused to answer this question, I hope you will show more courage.

Is,

I've been away and the website was down for a few days also so please do not lie and say I refused to answer anything.  You never answered my two simple questions which I asked first a LONG time ago when I came to this board.

1.) Does the Lord Jesus have a God”

2.) Does God the Father have a god?”

Yahvahshua as the Son of God means just what it says.  The Father is the Begetter and His Son Jesus is the one who is begotten.  He is the only begotten of the Father and thus a unique monogene or one of a kind.  Read also the genelogy of Jesus in the book of Luke, third chapter.  Last verse, 38 shows that ADAM is also called the son of God.  Christ is called the LAST ADAM.  What do you think that means, Is?

See you are exchanging the meaning of the Son of God for “God the Son” which is NOT in the Bible at all.  Do you think it pleases God to add words, phrases and titles He did not inspire anyone to write in the Bible?

Now would YOU like to finally show some courage and answer my two questions using scripture?  No extra-Biblical doctrines such as the so called dual nature of Christ nonsense is allowed either.  Your answer must be from scripture.

Oh for your rambling post above, (wasn't sure where you were going with all that), here's what the scripture says of who God is:

“Yet for us there is but ONE God, the Father…and but one Lord, Jesus Christ…”  [1 Corn 8:6]

Doesn't get any clearer than that my friend.

Bless ya',

Semmy

[seminarian]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 19 2006,11:04)

Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 19 2006,20:20) But to me the word trinity has only ever been a way of saying 3.  Nothing more. Hi Oxy, But do you not think it a little suspicious that the 1st commandment is that the Lord thy God is one God, yet today many say he is 3 or triune. Q: What happened between then and now that made people swap 1 for 3? A: The creeds of men. It was prophecied that the apostacy would come, then the man of sin, then Christ. So we are at the first stage I would say. 2 Thessalonians 2:2-4 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

T8 and Oxy,

Let me add to T8's astute observation of how ONE God has become 3. Also how is it that Judiaism is monotheistic and Christianity came out of that? Ask any Jewish Rabbi and they will laugh in your face about the trinity. Such false teachings are not found in the Bible nor are the found in Judiaism from which Christianity came. It is simply unheard of because it DID NOT originate with God's chosen people.

It was added by the surrounding pagan cultures, the Greeks, the Romans and the Babylonians all of whom worshipped triune or trinities of Gods.

Jesus told the Samaritan woman at the well, “You Samaritans worship what you do not know.” It's true here. Christ went on to say, “Salvation is of the Jews” and they DON'T beleove in any three in one God.

Lord help us here….

Semmy

[seminarian]

Quote (Guest @ Dec. 21 2004,03:09)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2004,02:40) The Father has never been on earth . If this is true then how do you explain Gen 3:8, 18:1….

Guest,

The Bible does not contradict itself. It clearly says that:

“God is NOT a man…nor the son of man.” in both Numbers 23:19 and Hosea 11:9

Here's another example similar to your quoted scripture. It shows in Exodus 3:1 that the voice from the burning bush was speaking to Moses in THE FIRST PERSON. That is as if God were speaking directly from the bush. However if you read the account, it clearly says that it was an ANGEL. Read further in verse 4 where it says that GOD called to him from within the bush, “Moses, Moses!” Verse 6 continues, “I am the God of your father…” Again first person, singular but the scriptures have made it clear that it was an ANGEL who was speaking.

The Father is spirit and can never become one of His creations. My question is why do people wish to bring the Creator of the Universe down to our level? That is why more and more people worship the Lord Jesus to the exclusion of the Father. People want a God they can see and who is like themselves. That's really idolatry because you are making a god more of your own liking.

If you truly know God the Father and His uncontainable power and might, you would know that He could never become a man, bush or pillar of fire. He CREATED all those things and has myriads of created angels to do these tasks for Him.

Blessings,

Semmy

[seminarian]

Ah E-Maniac,

Those pastors have masters of divinity degrees.  What do YOU have behind your name besides Jr.?
That's not the point.  They could not win a debate to prove the so called trinity
because it is just not in the Bible.  What the Bible DOES say, (over and over), is that
Jesus is the SON OF GOD.  See, it's that simple.  You can't make something appear
in the Bible that does not.  If you do, then you are a liar and adding to God's word in violation
of the many scriptures including the Book of Revelation 22:18-19 which calls down
curses on those who do so.  Do you enjoy being cursed?

Now.  Can you spell “s-l-a-n-d-e-r”?   The Bible clearly says :

“Do not go about speading slander among your people.” [Leviticus 19:17]

This pastor was attempting to slander me. I could have offered to clean his clock but instead chose the more civil route of a lawsuit if he chose to continue.  If you want people to think YOU are so much better than that, i.e. the peace-maker, you might wish to change that ludicrous “Braveheart” photo you keep sporting!

Please, (get real)

Semmy

[seminarian]

Quote (camrezaie @ Aug. 17 2006,19:05)

Quote (Robyn † @ Aug. 15 2006,23:04) The Trinity is very important in Christian doctorine concerning the truth and unity of the Godhead. As we all know that the Godhead consists of God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.  Basically the Father is God, his Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God.  Not three Gods but only one.  In this Trinity is the Son is begotten of the Father by an eternal generation, and the Holy Spirit proceeds by an eternal procession from the Father and the Son. no your wrong robyn… look up “godhead” in ANY encyclopedia it will give you this precise information: the word Godhead is itself a word that simply means “godhood”[1] and, thus, it is erroneous to use it as synonymous with the English word “trinity.” go to reference.com wikipedia.org or any encyclopedia, they will all tell you this

Cam, Nick, T8 & Cubes,

Brilliant posts!  Cam, I appreciate your Wikipedia citation because another pastor tried that godhead=trinity garbage with me too.  I told him “no go”!

Robyn, with all due respect, I sort of have to wonder how well founded someone is in the scriptures if they have to post links to other websites even supposedly their own, which “explain the trinity”.  We don't rely on links to explain Biblical doctrine, we go to the Bible itself.  Since the word trinity, triune, God the Son is even in the Bible nor were these doctrines ever taught by anyone in the Bible, I have to believe they were ADDED.

We have no right to add to God's word and the book of Revelation as well as Paul says this.  As soon as you begin trusting the traditions of men over what the Bible actually says, you are in trouble.

The Lord Jesus said to love God the Father will all our heart soul, mind and strength.  No one can split their affection between three so called co-equal, co-eternal beings.  It's just impossible and not what the Bible teaches.  Its gotten so bad that people just see Jesus as God and don't even bother praying to the Father as Jesus instructed us to do.

Most here also love the Lord Jesus and because we do, we show it by obeying what he says, not some church “fathers” who were not inspired writers of the Bible.  Jesus said that true worshippers would worship THE FATHER in spirit and truth. [John 4:21].  Doesn't say the trinity, doesn't even say worship Jesus although we can.  Hope you stay around.

Bless you,

Semmy

[seminarian]

Let me weigh in here…..

The Bible clearly teaches that Christ's return will catch people unawares.  In other words it will be a surprise event.  How is Christ's return going to be a surprise event when we are in tribulation for seven years?  I mean just start counting down for 7 years to his return from then!

Kenrch you wrote:

Ty,
“So you agree that the rapture will not take place until “after” the tribulation?  At the last trump the dead will rise?  I thought you go to heaven when you die.  Or is it just the bodies that rise at the last trump? Rev. 6:9-11

If the dead don't rise until the last trump, then how were those raised in Matt when our Lord died?  God is no respecter of persons. “

Remember Paul blasted Hymeneus and Philetus who SWERVE AS TO TRUTH, because they were saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and are subverting the faith of some” (II Tim. 2:18)

However, Jesus as well as Elijah and Elisha did resurrect several individuals. Elisha's bones even resurrected a dead man who was hurriedly thrown into his grave!  However after the earthquake in Matthew 27:51-53, it appears that MANY of the saints experienced a resurrection like
Lazarus.  However, these people DIED again later.  They went into the Holy City, (Jerusalem), not Heaven and appeared to many but all of them eventually died again.  Nothing in the scriptures indicates they were raised in incorruptable bodies which would never die again.  Thus this could not be THE final resurrection.

Now the question is, are all still waiting in death as the scriptures suggest in 1Thessalonians 4:16, so that the “Dead in Christ will rise first”?  I think this is just the case. Those who are alive and remain will be caught up with them.  So this is telling me all the saints are still sleeping in death awaiting Christ's return when THE great resurrection of all will occur.

Paul spoke of the mystery that all will not fall asleep in death but be changed in the twinkling of an eye. { 1 Corn 15:51-53 }  

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep but will all be changed- 52 in a flash in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMPET.

Last trumpet?  Well the last trumpet sounds like the blast that will announce Christ's second coming. So this makes sense.  I think of if Kenrch, as us falling asleep in death which is much deeper than any natural sleep.  When you are sleeping you don't know if you've slept 5 minutes of 5 hours!  So the next thing you know, you are waking up to a horn blast, ascending to heaven to meet the Lord Jesus in the air.  It would be as if you never died, really.  It will be that fast.

Notice too all these people who claim to have had near death or after life experiences never mention a scenario like the Bible describes.  The Bible says “it is appointed once for man to die”, so that is GOING to happen unless we are alive still when Christ returns.  Otherwise there would be no need for the “dead” in Christ to arise when he returns.

Am I making any sense?

Bless you bro's!  Back to seminary studies.  Now we're covering Church Administration.  What a snooze-fest!

Semmy

[seminarian]

H,

I agree but this is nothing new.  Especially since Emporer Constantine, who was a pagan up until his death bead baptism by Arius.  Constantine had his wife and son executed and himself carried the title Sol Invictus or the Invincible Son God.  His father and mother were likewise pagans.

That's why it was nothing more than a Hollywood publicity stunt when his mother traveled to Jerusalem and suddenly discovered with pinpoint accuracy both relics and actual cites of Christ and his apostles from the Bible.

To this day, people come and kiss the slab, sidewalk and anything else somebody said Jesus walked on or touched.  Its really sad because this is as you say, idolatry.  I'm not sure there is much we can do about bad movies except boycott them.  However, I think it is good to make sure what is being said is from the BIBLE itself.  If what you are referring to as the church is in fact the Roman Catholic Church, they admit to having equal weight given to their TRADITIONS as they do the Bible.  They also admit that many things they use such as the rosary beads, are of pagan origin.

Therefore, I would skip what the “church” teaches and go back to the source to see what the BIBLE teaches.

Bless ya',

Semmy

[seminarian]

Hey Nick & Cubes,

Great posts. Thanks for saving me the time to respond to T's inane ramblings.

T, none of your “questions” change the definitions of the word “god” found in
the Bible, a common household dictionary and the Lord Jesus' own blessed mouth.
If you wish to remain in your ignorance, there is not much anyone here can do for you.

Were honest when you answered MY two questions as follow?:

1. Does the Lord Jesus have a God? You said…YES

2. Does God the Father have a god? You said…NO

Logic and the common sense God Almighty gave you will tell you that you CAN NOT BE GOD or equal to Him and HAVE a GOD at the same time.

The Lord Jesus is now exalted and back in heaven but read what the Bible says.

Revelation 1:6 “…and has made us to be a kingdom of priests to serve HIS GOD AND FATHER.”

Revelation 1:1 “The Revelation of Jesus Christ which GOD GAVE HIM.”

Revelation 3:12 has the exalted Lord Jesus declaring that HE HAS A God and you know what, I'll believe him over you any day. Sorry but you ain't God Almighty if you have one. You are quite mistaken if you think otherwise.

I've moved from Tylenol to morphine at this point,

Semmy

[seminarian]

Oh this too WoutLaw,

You wrote of the Oneness Petecostals, (aka Modalists):

“Many in this group also believe that if one doesn't believe that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament, they will die in their sins. They are also hardcore on holiness. One shouldn't watch TV, listen to worldly music, go swimming in a public place, women must only wear skirts, women must not cut their hair, men are to be clean shaven, no wearing of shorts. No makeup for women. No alcoholic consumption. Basically guys a bunch of legalism.”

I know this other minister who studied at a UPC Bible school, not a seminary and this description fits his wife exactly!  He's always tanned, goes to these wierd all guy, pastor camps and leaves his wife home with their 8 kids!  She looks so much older than he does, (I wonder why), that I don't even think makeup COULD help her.  Let me stop.

The point is, legalism upon legalism.  When he started mouthing off, I told him to show me where it says any of that junk in the Bible.  He never provided one scripture.  Worse than that, he thought he'd be funny and try to cause trouble for me at the new church I've been serving.

All the other ministers know my stand on the trinity and leave me alone because they never could win a debate using scriptures. It obviously doesn't bother them because they keep inviting me and my family to every picnic, pool party and ministry event on the calendar. They still keep asking me to serve there too but I had to cut back because of my own ministry. This church is already huge but is still growing and they are building another twice it's size.

So, I told Rev. OP point blank he'd be lookin' down the barrel of a lawsuit if he tried ANYTHING.  Cricket, cricket.

So it goes with people who are just interested in controlling others in the name of religion.  Great insights!  Thanks.

Semmy

[seminarian]

Quote (Woutlaw @ April 13 2006,00:24)

Oneness Pentecostals Binitarians Unitarians Jehovah Witnesses Orthodox Jews Reformed Jews Conservative Jews Muslims

WoutLaw,

Good list! I'd also like to add the following who also claim to be Christians:

Quakers
Mormons
Sacred Name Movement People, (i.e Assembly of Yahweh)
The Way
Biblical Unitarians
Christadelphians

I think Nick made a good point not to look to a denomination for salvation. If we do we are simply building on someone else's foundation. I've found all of these groups to be lacking in one aspect of Biblical understanding or another. Except for the Quakers and the Sared Name Movement followers, most all the others were started by some loud mouth who claimed to be a prophet. Time has shown them all to be charlatans as none of their prophecies have come true yet they still hold followers in their sway. These are the false prophets the Lord Jesus said would come into the world.

Such groups would include the Mormons with John Smith, the Jehovah's Witnesses with Charles Taze Russell and The Way with Dr. Paul Wierwille. Jesus said you would know them by their fruits so take a little time to research all three of these guys' teachings, practices and lifestyles if you want to know the truth about the denominations they started.

Be blessed!

Semmy

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