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[logoslogic]

Dear Karmarie,

There are a number of reasons why I think (know) that the Jesus, who existed before He was born as Jesus, is a false Jesus.

First of all the Word of God tells us that what can be known about God is plain (is not a mystery) because God has shown it to us. How? “Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made.” So that we are without excuse! (Rom. 1:19-20). There is nothing in the created order, man or animal that existed before being born. The idea of existence before birth is a Roman Catholic Trinitarian mystery doctrine which claims that the second person of the trinity (Jesus) existed from all eternity. Jesus is our example in all things. He could not be our example if He [contrary to nature] would have existed before He was born.

Secondly, the ONE God who existed from the beginning and throughout O.T. time (Gen 1:1; John 1:1), first of all chose for Himself a wife when He married Israel at Mt Sinai (Ex 19). Then in the “fullness of time” (Gal 4:4) God chose the Virgin Marie, an Israelite woman (representing all of Israel); to give birth to His firstborn Son whom He named Jesus (Matt. 1:18-25).

Thirdly, in regards to 1 Cor.15:46.
Verses 39-44 only draw a comparison between the physical and the spiritual.

Then in verse 45 it tells us that the last Adam (Jesus) BECAME a life-giving spirit. Notice, it says He BECAME a life-giving spirit, not WAS a live-giving spirit. Jesus BECAME a life-giving spirit through His life, death and resurrection.

Verse 46 then explains that first is the physical and then the spiritual, and not the other way around.

Verse 47 tells us that the first man (Adam) was of the earth, in contrast to the second man (Jesus) who is the Lord from heaven. Jesus is from heaven because He was begotten at conception by God, when the WORD of God BECAME the SON of God (John 1:14).

Verses 48-50 tell us that Jesus is our example and we need to become and be what He is. Jesus was born 2000 years ago, BEGOTTEN of God and BORN of woman. He lived, suffered, died and was resurrected (born again), making Him the first born Son of God. You and I must also become BEGOTTEN (converted) of God and BORN AGAIN of God, in order to see and enter the kingdom of God.

Please consider additional explanations at: http://www.logoslogic.info

[logoslogic]

1 Cor. 15:46 “But it is not the spiritual which is first but the physical, and then the spiritual.”

The Jesus who was first spiritual (pre-existed), then physical and then spiritual again, is a false Jesus!

[logoslogic]

The subject of this topic is “pre-existence”

Clearly, we are confronted with two different Jesus’. One who pre-existed his birth and another who did not. One is the true Christ, the other is an antichrist. This is obviously a most important question to pursue since only the true Christ can save us from the penalty of death.

“In the beginning [and throughout O.T. time] was the WORD [of God], and the WORD [of God) was with God, and the WORD [of God] was God” [not A God but THE God] (John 1:1).

Then, in N.T. time (John 1:14) IT the Word of God became flesh, became HE the Son of God, named Jesus by God Almighty, His Father.

1 Cor. 15:45 says: “Thus it is written, ‘The first man Adam became a living being’, the last Adam became a life-giving spirit (notice, He BECAME not WAS a life-giving spirit). Vs 46 “But it is not the spiritual which is first but the physical, and then the spiritual.”

The true Jesus became first physical and then spiritual according to scripture. The false Jesus was first spiritual, then became physical, and then spiritual again (according to mythology).

Romans 1:19-20 tells us that: “For what can be known about God is plain (is not a mystery) to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power (Holy Spirit) and deity has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they (you) are without excuse.” There is no such thing as “preexistence” in the created order. The idea of pre-existence comes to us from the third century Roman Catholic mystery Trinity doctrine that claims that the second person of the trinity – Jesus, existed from all eternity.

Therefore, my Jesus is the one who came into being when He was BEGOTTEN of God and BORN of Mary 2000 years ago. Jesus came to show us the way by being our example in all things. If Jesus would have pre-existed His own birth, I should have existed before I was born, but I did not. Did you? I hope not!

For more on this subject visit: http://www.logoslogic.info

[logoslogic]

Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 14 2010,01:53)

All, To 'come in the flesh' excludes the possibility of a Divine nature co-existing with flesh.

JustAskin,

Allow me to comment on your above statement.

All flesh, from conception/birth, comes with an evil spiritual nature. Thats why Jesus said: “You must be born again” in order to change your evil nature to divine nature.

Jesus was the only exception in that He came from the point of conception/birth with a divine nature.

Please consider my article entitled: The “Double Nature” of Jesus Christ available at: http://www.logoslogic.info/doublenature.html

[logoslogic]

Kerwin,

Yes, in John 1:1 “Word” (implying a person) does actually mean “word” (the spoken word of God).
Nevertheless, as a rule, I capitalize “Word” because in addition to its meaning of the “spoken word” of God, it also says that the “Word was God,” i.e., the meaning of the word “Word” is for both “IT the spoken word” and for “HE God, Yahweh Elohim.”

In addition, I capitalize “Word” because in John 1:14 IT the “Word” BECAME “flesh,” became HE, “Jesus the Christ.”

[logoslogic]

Allow me to bring this thread back to the original three questions.

Was Christ born before creation?
No! Christ was born 2000 years ago (probably in 4 B.C.?) The prophetic record of the Old Testament and the record of the birth of Christ in the New Testament is so overwhelming that there is no justification to even ask such a question.

Was Christ Eternal?
The answer is yes and no; allows me to explain. Jesus Christ was not eternal for Jesus Christ was begotten and born 2000 years ago. However, John 1:1 tells us that: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” So, the Word of God was God, not “a” God but “the” God, and since “the” God was eternal, His Word was eternal also.
Then John 1:14 tells us that the WORD of God BECAME flesh – BECAME the SON of God. In other words, Jesus as the WORD of GOD was eternal, but Jesus as the SON of GOD was not.

Was Jesus Divine or Human? or Both?
I will answer this question from the standpoint that Jesus was begotten of God and born of Mary 2000 years ago. “Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit.” God impregnated Mary through the power of His Holy Spirit and His WORD (seed, sperm) became His SON (John 1:14). So, from the point of conception, Jesus was a divinely, BEGOTTEN being. Nine month later He became a BORN human being. In other words, for 33 ½ years Jesus was a BORN human being but only a BEGOTTEN divine being. As such He was able to sin and to die. He lived, He suffered, He did not sin, and He died. After three days and three nights in the grave (as prove that He was the prophesied Messiah), God resurrected Him, now BORN AGAIN, never able to die again. Jesus while on earth was not FULLY human and FULLY divine, as a popular, but false teaching claims. He was however BOTH human and divine, and if the Spirit of God dwells in you, then you are also BOTH human and divine.
http://www.logoslogic.info/NatureofGod.html

[logoslogic]

There seems to be a great amount of controversy and confusion about the word “firstborn” in many posts.

In the Old Testament the word “firstborn” is used over 100 times and refers primarily to the one born first, the oldest child in a family.

In the New Testament, the Gospels speak of Mary who gave birth (brought forth) her “firstborn” son, who was named Jesus. There can (or should) be no doubt that Jesus is the “firstborn” son of His father – God Almighty, and of His mother – Mary.

In Romans 8:29 Jesus is called the “firstborn among many brethren.” The word “brethren” can have two meanings and one could simply be that He was the oldest, the firstborn, in Mary’s family, which He was. The other and most likely meaning is that it makes reference to converted people who have become part of the Family of God.

In Colossians 1:15 Jesus is called the “firstborn of every creature.” This, I would say, makes reference to the fact that he was “born first” before every creature, may it be human, angelic or animal.

In Colossian 1:18 Jesus is called the “beginning, the firstborn from the dead.”

So, the question is: How was Jesus the “firstborn” among many brethren and of every creature, and how was He the “firstborn” from the dead? Since the answer is the same for all three conditions, here is my answer: Jesus became the “firstborn” son of his father God and His mother Mary when God impregnated His wife Mary, 2000 years ago (the alternative would be that God committed fornication with a betrothed woman – not very likely). Jesus was BEGOTTEN of God when Mary conceived. Nine month later Jesus was BORN a human being from His human mother Mary, but remained a BEGOTTEN son of God. For 33 ½ years Jesus lived as a fully BORN human being, but was only a BEGOTTEN God being, able to sin and to die. Jesus lived, suffered, did not commit any sin and died. After three days and three nights in the grave (as prove that He was the prophesied Messiah) God resurrected Him from the dead which was His second birth. Jesus, by a resurrection was BORN AGAIN as a spirit God being, never able to die again.

Jesus was the “firstborn” BORN AGAIN among many brethren, He was the “firstborn” BORN AGAIN of every creature, and He was the “firstborn” BORN AGAIN from the dead.

Jesus was first in all! He is our example and forerunner, and commanded that we too must be BORN AGAIN to enter and see the kingdom of God.

[logoslogic]

Allow me to bring this thread back to the original three questions and my answers.

Was Christ born before creation?
No! Christ was born 2000 years ago (probably in 4 B.C.?) The prophetic record of the Old Testament and the record of the birth of Christ in the New Testament is so overwhelming that there is no justification to even ask such a question.

Was Christ Eternal?
The answer is yes and no; allows me to explain. Jesus Christ was not eternal for Jesus Christ was begotten and born 2000 years ago. However, John 1:1 tells us that: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” So, the Word of God was God, not “a” God but “the” God, and since “the” God was eternal, His Word was eternal also.
Then John 1:14 tells us that the WORD of God BECAME flesh – BECAME the SON of God. In other words, Jesus as the WORD of GOD was eternal, but Jesus as the SON of GOD was not.

Was Jesus Divine or Human? or Both?
I will answer this question from the standpoint that Jesus was begotten of God and born of Mary 2000 years ago. “Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit.” God impregnated Mary through the power of His Holy Spirit and His WORD (seed, sperm) became His SON (John 1:14). So, from the point of conception, Jesus was a divinely, BEGOTTEN being. Nine month later He became a BORN human being. In other words, for 33 ½ years Jesus was a BORN human being but only a BEGOTTEN divine being. As such He was able to sin and to die. He lived, He suffered, He did not sin, and He died. After three days and three nights in the grave (as prove that He was the prophesied Messiah), God resurrected Him, now BORN AGAIN, never able to die again. Jesus while on earth was not FULLY human and FULLY divine, as a popular, but false teaching claims. He was however BOTH human and divine, and if the Spirit of God dwells in you, then you are also BOTH human and divine.

[logoslogic]

Quote (Not3in1 @ May 30 2007,05:38)

The belief that Jesus was alive before his conception raises a number of questions about his nature.  Is it possible to be a human being in any meaningful sense if one does not originate in the womb of one's mother? John Knox said this, “We can have the humanity of Christ without the preexistence and we can have the preexistence without the humanity.  There is absolutely no way of having both.” The Messiah, according to scripture was to be a descendant of David, of Abraham (Gal. 3:16), and the seed of the women (Gen. 3:15).  Paul constantly thinks of Christ as the last Adam (man).  If he existed as a person before his conception, in what sense is he – the real person – a human being and a descendant of David and Abraham? What do other's think?  If you believe Jesus existed prior to his birth, please give your scriptural understanding.  As most of you know, I contend for the Son of God beginning his life – for the first time – at conception. If Jesus is the Son, and words mean anything, a “son” is derived and dependent.

Hello Not3 in1,
Allow me to comment on this thread, specifically on John Knox’s statement that:
“We can have the humanity of Christ without the preexistence and we can have the preexistence without the humanity. There is absolutely no way of having both.”

John Knox was a 3 in1 Trinitarian that caused him to be wrong on all three counts of the above statement.

Jesus indeed had a human beginning when He was born of His human mother Mary. But, He also preexisted His human birth, but not as Jesus, not as the Son of God, not as a second being in a trinity. He existed as the WORD of God and the WORD of God was always with God, and the WORD of God was God, until the WORD of God BECAME the SON of God 2000 years ago.

The WORD of God was not a second God, even though the WORD of God is often personified, for it is living and sharper than any two-edged sword. God is the THINKER (person/being); His WORDS are His THOUGHTS. In the beginning is my word, and my word is with me, and my word is me. That makes ONE person – me. There was but ONE God being, Yahweh Elohim, from the beginning and throughout Old Testament time, until God fathered His (only so) begotten, and firstborn Son whom He named Jesus, in the fullness of time, 2000 years ago.

And, if the Spirit of God dwells in you, then you are also a born human being and a begotten God being, who will be “born again” by a resurrection from the dead, just as our example Jesus was.

[logoslogic]

Quote (Gene @ Nov. 23 2009,03:45)

DB…………Absolutely, Jesus was foreordained (preplanned) before His berth , then at the right time was Born, came into the world by berth , just exactly as we do, and was (Begotten) or Born of GOD at the day He was Baptized in the Jordan By John the Baptist. As the voice of GOD said (this day) i have begotten you, at that time he received the fullness of Holy Spirit and became a born Son of GOD, the same way we do, When we are born of GOD by His spirit, we then contain the seed of our FATHER GOD in us, as it say “His seed abides in you” and again ” Know you not that you are (NOW) the sons of God.”  God's Spirit (IN) a person is HIS SEED and HIS NATURE is (IN) His SEED, and (ALL) who Have this SEED have HIS NATURE IN THEM. They are Born from above (NOW) . Blessing on all who understand this. IMO

Jean, I agree that Jesus was foreordained (preplanned) before His birth, then at the right time (the “fullness of time”) was born, came into the world by birth, just exactly as we do.  

I do not agree with the next statement that says: “and was (Begotten) or Born of God at the day He was Baptized in the Jordon By John the Baptist.”

First of all “begotten” is not the same as “born.” There is a time interval between “begettal” and “birth.” Nine month for a physical birth, and unto death for a spiritual birth. Jesus was begotten of God at Mary’s conception when she was impregnated by God. Nine month later Jesus was born of Mary as a (fully) human being. At the same time He continued to be (only) a begotten Son of God able to sin and to die. When Jesus was baptized by John, He was baptized not because He needed to repent of sin (for He never sinned) but to receive, as you said, the fullness of the Holy Spirit, but primarily He was baptized as an example for us.

When Jesus was baptized at age 30, He already was as a (begotten) Son of God, since Mary’s conception by God. He did not become a (born) Son of God until He finished His work on the cross, and after three days and three nights in the grave, when He was resurrected (born again) by God His Father.

If Jesus would have been already born of God, i.e., be fully God at His baptism, He could not have died 3 ½ years later, for (fully) God cannot die.

Jesus was a born human being and a begotten God being during His 33 ½ years on earth, just as you are a born human being and a begotten God being, if the Spirit of God dwells in you.

You may want to consider my article: The “Double Nature” of Jesus Christ available at: http://www.logoslogic.info/doublenature.html

[logoslogic]

Considering the large number of diverse posts on the subject of John 1:1, allow me to comment without addressing anyone’s post specifically.

The interpretation of John 1:1 depends on your fundamental theology whether Jesus existed before He was born as Jesus 2000 years ago or not. If your paradigm is preexistence then you will read John 1:1 as: In the beginning was the WORD (meaning Jesus), and the WORD (meaning Jesus) was with God, and the WORD (meaning Jesus) was God. This falls in line with traditional Roman Catholic Trinitarian (mystery) teaching.

But that is not what the Bible says. It says: “In the beginning was the WORD.” First of all let’s define “beginning.” I believe it to mean from all eternity and throughout Old Testament time. Secondly, we need to ask: Who’s WORD was in the beginning? My answer: It was the WORD of God. So now, John 1:1 reads: “In the beginning was the WORD (of God), and the WORD (of God) was with God, and the WORD (of God) was God.”  For a better understanding we can personify John 1:1 to read: In the beginning is my word, and my word is with me, and my word is me. In other words, in the beginning was ONE God, Yahweh Elohim and (it) His WORD. It was through (it) His WORD that God created the heavens and the earth – God spoke and it was!  John 1:1 tells us who and what was in the beginning and throughout Old Testament time.

Now we come to John 1:2 which says: “He was in the beginning with God.” Notice the change from “it” – the WORD, to “He” – Jesus, after the WORD became FLESH in John 1:14, telling us what was then, in New Testament time.

Gen.1:1 says exactly the same as John 1:1 that in the beginning was ONE God – God Almighty. This ONE God then decided to raise up for Himself a family, and so He chose the slave nation Israel and entered into a marriage covenant with Israel at Mt Sinai. In the “fullness of time” God chose the Jewess Mary, representing all of Israel – His wife, as the (surrogate) Mother of their only (so) begotten and firstborn Son, whom they named Jesus.

God is not Trinitarian, not Twinitarian and not Unitarian. God is monotheistic from beginning to end. There was but ONE God Being from the beginning and throughout Old Testament time, and there is but ONE God Family throughout New Testament time and into the Kingdome age.

[logoslogic]

Hello Nick,
Here are my comments on The Mystery of the “Godhead”!

Years ago I came across a booklet by the title: IS JESUS IN THE GODHEAD OR IS THE GODHEAD IN JESUS? written by Gordon Magee. The title was confusing to me because I was not familiar with the word “Godhead.” The obvious meaning of the word “Godhead” (at least to me) was that it is talking about the “Head of God.” Then I searched my Bible where the word “Godhead” is used, but low and behold the word was not in my (RSV) Bible. Further research revealed that the word “Godhead” is used three times (Acts 17:29, Rom. 1:20, Col. 2:9) in the KJV and not in most other translations.

What then do other translations use in place of “Godhead” and what exactly does the word “Godhead” mean? The Greek words theiotes and theotes are translated in various translations as: “the Deity,” “deity,” “God,” “the divine being,” “divine nature,” “divinity,” “Divine Nature,” “Gottheit” in German and are so defined in most Lexicons.

However, in addition to the use of the word “Godhead” in the KJV, I have found that the word “Godhead” is freely and often used in Statements of Beliefs, in write-ups on the Nature of God and of Christ, and particularly in papers that (try to) explain the trinity doctrine. The question is: Why is the word “Godhead” used so frequently in non-biblical writings?

In the Catholic Encyclopedia on The Blessed Trinity it says: “The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion – the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another.” Writing about the baptismal formula, they say: “It has already been shown that the words as prescribed by Christ (Matthews 28:19) clearly express the Godhead of the Three Persons as well as their distinction.”

From a write-up on The Godhead we read: “Although the word ‘trinity’ is not in the Bible, the concept of the three-in-one, the triune God, is. The term ‘Godhead,’ referring to the three-in-one, can be found in Acts 17:29 and Colossians 2:9.”

Let’s remember that the Greek words theiotes and theotes (that are just derivatives of the Greek theios) are defined as: “The Deity,” “divinity,” “the divine being” and “Divine Nature.” In other words, each one of these definitions simply designate the Creator – “God,” whereas, in Catholic theology these two words, translated “Godhead” (in the KJV), denote primarily the (false) idea of three-in-one, i.e., the word “Godhead” is used primarily as a synonym for the word “Trinity.”

What is the underlying issue in all of this? It is the question whether Jesus Christ pre-existed His birth through Mary, His mother, 2000 years ago! Both, Catholicism/Protestantism based on the trinity doctrine, and various Churches of God based on the Twinity doctrine, affirm and teach that Jesus Christ existed before He was born as a separate center of thought, as a second person (God) in the Godhead. But, is that a Biblical teaching? Where does the idea of existence before birth come from? To be sure, there are scripture verses that seem to support such an idea, but, scripture verses are subject to (human) interpretation and can and are being used to support contradictory conclusions.

The idea of life before birth (re-incarnation) and life after death (immortality of the soul) has been a human desire from the beginning, and is very much a part of human, Babylonian mythology. But the Biblical fact, verified by God’s creation, is that birth means beginning and death means end!

Rom. 1:19-20 says that: “…what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them (men). Ever since the creation of the world his (God's) invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So that they are without excuse.” God made/created in Adam and Eve the process of procreation/birth which is always a beginning, not only for man(kind), but also for the God(kind). Jesus Christ, as the Son of God had a beginning when He was sired by His father God, and born of His mother Mary.

However, Jesus Christ did pre-exist His birth, but, not as Jesus Christ, not as the Son (of God), not as a second person in a Godhead, not as the Spokesman, no, He existed as the WORD (of God), and the WORD (of God) was always with God and the WORD (of God) was God. Then, 2000 years ago the WORD (of God) BECAME the SON (of God) which was the beginning of the ONE God Family. God and the Bible are 100% monotheistic from beginning to end. There was only ONE God in the Old Testament, Yahweh Elohim, and there is only ONE God Family in the New Testament, consisting of God the Father, the first born Son Jesus, and many begotten Sons that will become born Sons of God by a resurrection.

IT, the Word was not a pre-existent Jesus, was not a second God in a Godhead. IT, the Word was God, just like your word is you. Consider that “the WORD of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” Just because HE, the SPIRIT of God is our Comforter, does not make HIM a third person in a Godhead! Just as the Spirit of God and the Wisdom of God are personified in scripture, so is the Word of God personified, and whatever personal attributes or personal pro-nouns are used are but the personal attributes of the ONE God Yahweh Elohim.

In other words John 1:1 addresses what was “in the beginning,” which was the ONE God and (it) His Word. Then, beginning with John 1:2 it addresses what was “then,” which was Jesus (He) the Son, the Spokesman, whose beginning/birth is clearly described in the previous three gospels.

The “three-in-one” trinity and the “two-in-one” twinity teachings force Theologians into mysterious and illogical explanations to define what the relationship of the Son is to the Father. Who can comprehend a teaching that claims that there is only one God not two (or three), but that there are two (or three) individuals in the one Godhead?” The teaching that Jesus pre-existed His birth, raises unanswerable questions and produces insurmountable obstacles to understand God.

So, what is the answer to the original question: “Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus?” All I can say is that there can be no correct answer to a false question!

When Jesus Christ asked His disciples (and by extension you and me): “Who do men say that I the son of man am?” They said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” He said to them (and to you and me), “But who do YOU say that I am?” Peter replied for all of us when he said: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus then confirmed that the answer was correct when He said: “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona! Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.”

Considering that the answer was confirmed by Jesus personally, we can be sure that the answer was not only correct, but complete, in order to know that, “Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus did not pre-exist in a Godhead (say trinity or twinity), Jesus was the firstborn Son of God, who undoubtedly pre-existed in the Head of God, planned and anticipated from the foundation of the world, as all of God’s children are.

The mystery of the “Godhead” has now been demystified, for there is NO “godhead,” NO “trinity,” NO “twinity” and NO “ism’s.” There was but ONE God and His Word from eternity and throughout Old Testament time, and there is but ONE God Family, God the Father, and His fir
stborn Son Jesus the Christ, and many begotten children, in New Testament time and throughout eternity.

Therefore, “I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation (and God the Father and our elder brother, and all the angels) wait(s) with eager longing for the revealing of the Sons of God” (Rom. 8:18).

[logoslogic]

Hi Stu,
Thanks for welcoming me to Heavennet.
There were plenty of eyewitnesses to the birth of Christ and what you label hearsay, I accept as the Word of God. Jesus’ chromosome, the WORD (seed, sperm) came from God His Father – who else? There was no magic involved. God impregnated Mary and she gave birth to the Son of God. The mechanism is called procreation with which you should be familiar with, for that is how you came into the world. God did not become a man; God fathered a son who was born as a man.

[logoslogic]

Dear Not3 in1,
Allow me to comment on this thread, specifically on John Knox’s statement that:
“We can have the humanity of Christ without the preexistence and we can have the preexistence without the humanity. There is absolutely no way of having both.”
John Knox was a 3 in1 Trinitarian that caused him to be wrong on all three counts of the above statement.
Jesus indeed had a human beginning when He was born of His human mother Mary. But, He also preexisted His human birth, but not as Jesus, not as the Son of God, not as a second being in a trinity. He existed as the WORD of God and the WORD of God was always with God, and the WORD of God was God, until the WORD of God BECAME the SON of God 2000 years ago.
The WORD of God was not a second God, even though the WORD of God is often personified, for it is living and sharper than any two-edged sword. God is the THINKER (person/being); His WORDS are His THOUGHTS. In the beginning is my word, and my word is with me, and my word is me. That makes ONE person – me. There was but ONE God being, Yahweh Elohim, from the beginning and throughout Old Testament time, until God fathered His (only so) begotten, and firstborn Son whom He named Jesus, in the fullness of time, 2000 years ago.
And, if the Spirit of God dwells in you, then you are also a born human being and a begotten God being, who will be “born again” by a resurrection from the dead, just as our example Jesus was.

[logoslogic]

I agree that Jesus did not exist as Jesus before He was born as Jesus. He did exist prior to His birth as the Word (of God). The idea that Jesus existed as the Son of God from all eternity, and throughout Old Testament time, comes to us from Roman Catholic Church teaching that claims that the second person of the (mystery) trinity always existed. But, birth is always a beginning, just as death is always an end. Jesus, truly and literally, BECAME the Son of God 2000 years ago, when the Word BECAME flesh, when Mary was impregnated by God and  gave birth to the (only so) begotten and firstborn Son of God.  

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