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[elaine1809]

Thank you guys You have no idea how relieved I am by telling you this and you giving me hope. I am afraid of saying here what happened to him because possible legal ramifications… and because I feel that I would be telling the whole world about his personal life. Anybody could read this post and maybe used against him. Thank you for your prayers tell me more about fasting and praying. I have never considered fasting before I thought it was something unnecessary and just of ancient customs. If I did not have GOD in my life I dont think I would have been able to handle this. I know Jehova wont allow me to carry more than what I can handle. HE gives me people like you to make things easier:)

[elaine1809]

You are right KE BEST wishes, Elaine:)

[elaine1809]

I know that you do not know my son I will tell you about him: He will give you without knowing you whatever he has if you ask for it. He is not selfish, He loves to help people he does not know. He got together with his ex[ the mother of his baby] and stayed with her as long as he emotionally could because she was going to have an abortion and he does not belive in abortion so he begged her to have the baby that he would take care of her and the baby, and he did, he felt sorry for her and he thought he could give her happiness. but she brought him deeper down than where he already was. I told him that would happened he of course did not listened to me. Now he is so full of hate for her[ she runned away wuth the baby, she is one of those that took ecxtasy every day for 6 months, before she met my son. She is crazy, hates everybody and she tells you on your face… she is awful.. I tried to help her but she was destroing trying to destroy my family. anyway, What I am trying to communicate to you is the nature of my son, he was a good person he loved Jehova , he does not love him now, he still good to everybody just not to himself. I think it is possible that demons are with him specially when he smokes pot and drinks to get drunk. What do you mean by DeMON opressed? Thank you again for your time, Love Elaine

[elaine1809]

Hi stu: I also appreciate you taking your time to talk to me. As you can appreciate I do believe in a GOD the only one there is, the one that gave you and me life. and you dont believe, that is your decision. I am sure there is nothing I can say that can change your mind so I wont waste your time. Thank you again for your post. You seem to be honestly trying to help and I appreciate that. Thank you

[elaine1809]

Thank you KEN,942,michaels, not3 I do appreciate you taking your time to talk to me. This person is my son He is 21 and when he was 13 something very very bad happened to him .I did not know until after he was 18. He finally told me. I know he must have a lot of anger and maybe regrets for what he had to do but at that moment it was life or dead for him. I feel in my heart that he hate shimself for it. And the worst part is that [this is my opinion only] I think he thinks he is damned that he already commited a mortal sin and he might as well live that way because he already done the worst. I raised my kids with Jehovas Witnesses[ I was raised as a catholic] but I came out of the Jehovas witnesses congregation about 4 years ago because I did not agree with all of their teachings and I found myself trying to “please” the 'eldres' more than Jehova. I feel closer to Jehova now that I study on my own with my family. But my son, who used to get on his knees everynight to pray until he was 13, changed and started using alcohol and marijuana [at that time i had no idea]. when he confessed to me at 18 what happened to him, I took it so hard , I only prayed and cry for about three months for Jehova to take the movie I had of him in that situation in my mind. that was all I saw since I got up in the morning.One morning I got up and I could not , in my mind go there again, it was like a miracle, I could not relive what happened to him in my mind! I thank GOD for doing that. Now I can attempt to deal with him. I went to theraphy for him and he went once but it did not work. a few years later he got together with an atheist woman that I know or at least I think has demon problems. they had a son last year. they split up but his actitude towards God is the same. I think she left him more confused and angry than ever. He hates her[she is out of our lifes thank God] we won join custody last month so we will get the baby half of the time and I will be able to try to raise him with GOD. But anyway, I have never done fasting, I always thought that it was not important or not done anymore. Please tell me about fasting and praying . I feel in my heart that I need to pray incesantly day and night to ask mercy for my son, and to ask Jehova to put it back in his heart to love HIM again like he did when he used to get on his knees and pray. I know I dont deserve for Jehova to do anything for me I am not good enough for that all I can do is find a way to please HIM and I already love HIM but i am so weak manytimes and dont do things right. I feel it is my fault that my son rebeled, I was so stupidly ignorant about so many things!!! I did not put Jehova first in my kids life , I was too concerned with this old world's worrys… Anyway thank you so much for your time Love Elaine

[elaine1809]

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 08 2007,09:02)

Hikejonn. If we start with our understanding and then fit scripture into it, we will end with our understanding. If we start with scripture and try to understand it, then we have a better shot as knowing the truth.

OH T8 that was so good! You could not had said it better!! That is what I was trying to say!!!

[elaine1809]

Amen T8 me too!!

[elaine1809]

I give up, a lot of people here use human logic or manmade concepts [trinity definition] [angel definition]to explain Jehovas ways. I apprecite your comments but I am new at these and have not develop patience to argue 4 ever about issues that do not really need overanalizing because they are expressed in the scriptures pretty clearly. There are too many scriptures that go along with the FACT that JESUS was with his FATHER in HEAVEN from the beginning of the earth creation. If he was an archangel or not , that is not relevant to me. I firmly believe that if you did not take into account the MANMADE concept of trinity then you would not be telling me that I must believe in trinity if I believe in His preexistence. God bless all of you LOve

[elaine1809]

KE thank you for info. but why use the concept trinity and base your explanation on it? when we know the concept and ideologies are manmade? If you did not have the concept of trinity if it did not exist would you still believe the same? your logic IS: if I believe Jesus preexisted, then I have to conclude, or deduct, that trinity is the truth. nO BECAUSE i DONT BASE MY CONCLUSIONS OR DEDUCTIONS ON ANY PART OF THE TRINITY DOCTRINE BECAUSE IT IS NOT SCRIPTURAL/ iF IT WAS IN THE SCRIPTURES, THEN i WOULD HAVE TO TAKE IT INTO CONSIDERATION, i WOULD BE STUPID NOT TO.

[elaine1809]

sorry I just quoted the whole thing! I did not meant to. Anyway it was really good:)

[elaine1809]

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 08 2007,03:16)

Hi All: The following scripture might help: Quote Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, Relative to Michael: Quote Definition Michael = “who is like God” the first of the chief princes or archangels who is supposed to be the guardian angel of the Israelites In the following scriptures, Michael seems to refer to the spirit (who is like God) who through his angels (messengers) fight against the dragon(the spirit of the devil) and his angels: Quote Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Re 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. Re 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. In these scriptures Michael appears to refer to a ruler who has this spirit (who is like God); Quote Da 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. Da 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince. Da 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the God Bless

He preexisted I dont know in what exact form besides that He was a spirit being it is IRRELEVANT for our SALVATION if He was angel or not. 942 those are great scriptures! Thank you specially the info about the name MICHAEL I did not know that. Love to all

[elaine1809]

Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 08 2007,02:09)

Hi all, Everyone wants to say it is simple, he pre-existed. Yet some of you say you don't believe in the trinity. Therefore, it no longer IS simple. Because belief in pre-existence without belief in the trinity is almost an oxymoron UNLESS you want to believe Yeshua was an angel. There really is only two class of beings in heaven: God and angels. Some people want to deny the trinity but they stop short by just accepting Yeshua “was” before he came to earth without finding out what form. You may think it does not matter but it does because if Yeshua was not an angel, then you really have no defense against the trinity doctrine unless you accept regular polytheism.

so it is of HUMAN UNDERSTANDING that if he was not an angel but preexisted we[human understanding] HAVE to DEDUCT[please see definition] that there is a trinity. human wisdom sometimes can be scary… So you compare your human wisdom to jehova's? If you dont have a LOGICAL answer or explanation you deduct in such a drastic way? That is not wisdom and that is no DEDUCTION it is an assumption based on human logic which sometimes it comes out as the opposite of common sense..

[elaine1809]

IM4 you are right it is as simple as that!

[elaine1809]

Kejohn I did not mean any cinisism by my comments. I am sincerely confused. maybe I should read this from the beginning. maybe I did not catch the right thought. Love and peace, elaine

[elaine1809]

is not all possible with GOD? then why we come to these ilogical conclusions when we should know that our human understanding is nothing compare to Jehovas wisdom?

[elaine1809]

Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 06 2007,16:40)

Elaine, If he is begotten, he is God.

Ok now I am really confused Do you believe in the trinity? the word BEGOTTEN is said by GOD right ? somewhere in the scriptures? If it is used by GOD then based on your statement JESUS Is GOD? I tought you did not believe in trinity. are these postings too complicated for my knowledge? I am not a scholar and never will be, but I think I have common sense. I know somewhere in the scriptures it talks about human wisdom being stupid at GOD's eyes. maybe we are overanalizing? I do not mean to put anybody down you or nobody I am just being very honest. I am confused by all of these statements from you brothers and sisters they go over my head.

[elaine1809]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 06 2007,09:10)

To a large degree, I believe that if Jesus preexisted as a spirit son prior to his true conception in Mary, he also would be considered a sort-of reincarnation. God begets a spirit son. God impregnates Mary and Mary conceives (adding her DNA). Spirit son is now altered from original state in heaven. Thoughts?

Reincarnation: Jesus preexistence was not “carnal' He was a spirit being; so He could not reincarnate.incarnation would be the right term. It is pretty well documented that Jesus was with GOD His FATHER in heaven. That does not mean or is the same as “Jesus was GOD”[trinity]. That would be an assumption not a deduction. It only means what it says : That he was WITH GOD. Not that he was GOD.

[elaine1809]

Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 06 2007,09:43)

Steven[/quote] And by that very last claim you have now accepted the trinity. The trinity says that Yeshua is a person of God. You say he is a person, and that he was begotten, not created, of the Father before his humanity. Thus, that which is begotten purely of God must be God, and WJ is correct. To accept this you must accept the Trinity.

overanalizing? confused: “that which is begotten purely of God must be God” How do you conclude that?

[elaine1809]

I see.

[elaine1809]

THank you GENE! LOve and Peace to you and your family:)

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