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[Ztheberean]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2009,06:44)

Hi Z, God does not want us so busy examining ourselves for sin that we do not walk and serve Him. That would show we never really believed we were forgiven in the waters of baptism.

We must examine ourselves to prove IF we are in the faith that believes its all about God working, NOT us working for our salvation because this is a gift of God, by His grace through the faith that believes. (2Cor 13:5, Eph 2:10-8)

No one is forgiven by the sprinking of water, I just gave you the scriptures for that before.

[Ztheberean]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2009,06:42)

Hi Z, You can specify the multiplicity of human sin but only one is relevant.[Jn3,16] Sins are only the natural expression of serving the father of natural men. They are not the biggest problem but unbelief in the Son is. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. God is not counting but rather forgiving the sins of those in His beloved son Jesus Christ

The natural man has a carnal mind which is against the things of God, AND is walking after their flesh, which CANNOT please God (Rom 8:7-8), this is why the deeds of our body need to be mortified through the Spirit, so that we can live after the Spirit and please God because we are no longer living after out flesh in the above sins (Rom 8:13-14, 8-9).

Those who have forgiveness from God, also have deliverance from the above sins which are against the things of God, and the liberty to love others (strongs Greek # 859).
No one has forgivesness from God without the above fruit of deliverance, remission, and liberty.

[Ztheberean]

Quote (SEEKING @ Mar. 05 2009,05:43)

Quote (Gene @ Mar. 04 2009,08:49) Ztheberean………………Amen again, this is truly from the Spirit, Many profess God (BUT) deny the Power there of , Putting the power of their salvations into their own Hands, By such things as so-called (FREE WILL) Choices, and there by deny the (GRACE) God's work on the heart. We truly are saved by GRACE and that (NOT) of ourselves. peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………..gene Gene, You “Amen” Zthebereans' post and speak of “Free Will.” If one does that long list of sins he posted and practice the disobedience he eludes to, is it because the “devilade them do it”?  I hear you saying they do not have free will to choose. Am I hearing you worng? Blessings, Seeking

Yes, that is correct, because if we have free will, we can only choose to be in disobedience, and not have God working upon us, so that we would not be in this disobedience.
So, it's all about ASKING God to work, which is naturally against our will, so God needs to deliver us from our will, so that we can be into His will.

[Ztheberean]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2009,05:11)

Z, Why do you offer sermons and not enter into dialogue about your words?

I do enter into dialogue, with people when I feel led by the Spirit to do so, however the bible speaks about avoid foolish and unlearned questions because all they do is cause strife, not unity.

[Ztheberean]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 21 2009,03:47)

Zetheberan…………….Amen to that post, for we are truly saved by GRACE ALONE, no of ourselves , it is a (GIFT) of GOD, many have turned to their own so-called (FREE WILL) Choices, thinking that what save them, Their foolish Pride will in the end fail them. love and peace to you and yours………………………..gene

Amen to that brother!
Peace and grace to you and yours..

Much affection,
Zianna

[Ztheberean]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 06 2009,16:56)

Ztheberean…………Amen to that post. love and peace to you and yours……………………….gene

Hi Gene!

Thanks for the encouragement!

Blessings in His grace for the new year to you and your family too.

Zianna

[Ztheberean]

Quote (Shania @ Dec. 03 2008,18:09)

Here is how I understand it: You are saved by faith.  Your faith is proved genuine by your works.   Faith not accompanied by good works is not saving (genuine) faith. Crystal is proved by a ringing sound.  Does the ringing sound make it crystal?  No.  But if the crystal doesn't make the sound, it is not genuine.

We can only understand by going to the scriptures to see what they say about faith, not our opinions.

We are saved by GRACE through the faith that believes it is NOT of ourselves (meaning our works) because it is the GIFT of God (Eph 2:8-9). This is why we need GRACE so that we can have the obedience to the faith that is in His name (Rom 1:5).
Those who are being built upon the foundation of the apostles, which is the doctrine of grace are in the ONE accord/mind (Eph 2:20, Acts 2:42, 46) understand the need to ASK God to create Christ in them because this is His gift to His children so that they could walk in good works, not in their flesh (Eph 2:10-11).
Only these disciples, who are learners understand that it is impossible to bring Christ into yourself/heart. (Rom 10:6-7).

[Ztheberean]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 02 2008,06:51)

Hi Z, So it is us who saves ourselves by our choices? Cleansing, separation, education? Naah We must be reborn from above. God saves.

Hi Nick,

I really don't understand how you got that we have the choice to save ourselves from this post, i believe it says just the opposite. Maybe you can spend some more time going over it because you will see that it clearly shows that it is God working, not US working…

[Ztheberean]

Quote (epistemaniac @ Oct. 25 2008,19:38)

hi there… interesting points… a few questions…. you say “Believers who are in the broad way which is leading them to destruction (Math 7:13)” and “For many believers are seeking to enter into the kingdom, but shall not be able (Lk 13:24)” etc so are you sayings a person can be truly saved and still be on the road to hell….? you say “BECAUSE THE BROAD WAY (IS BELIEVING YOU CAN BE INSTANTLY BORN AGAIN THROUGH A PRAYER) AND THIS WAY LEADS TO DESTRUCTION (Math 7:13). “ While I believe that many do mistakenly think they are saved because they said a prayer at one point in their life, or they walked down an aisle, etc… while their life reflects absolutely no indication of their really having been born from above…. still, it DOES seem to be the case that God COULD save someone this way… that is to say, its probably not wise to put God in a box and say that God cannot save someone this way. God gives the faith necessary to believe, (Eph 2:8-9)  thus if someone does come to salvation,  its because, and only because God first opened their blinded eyes, regenerated their heart, eg took out their heart of stone and gave them a heart of flesh (Eze 11:19), thus enabling them to believe, not because of any works they had done, not because of any running or willing on their part, but solely because God willed it for His own greater glory, and thus enabling them, for the first time, to obey and walk in God's commands, Eze 11:20 esv  “that they may walk in my statutes and keep my rules and obey them. And they shall be my people, and I will be their God.” and Php 2:12-13 esv  “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,  (13)  for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.” you say “this is why God Himself sends us a servant who is patient to instruct us, and through THIS process God grants repentance, so that we could acknowledge the truth, and be recovered from the captivity of the devil’s will. (2Tim 2:24-26) “ Did you have any particular servant in mind…? you say “Believers who cannot obey the words of God are walking in the imaginations of their own evil hearts” Bu it is actally UNbelievers who “cannot” obey, for they are slaves to sin…. Rom 6:6 esv We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. Rom 6:17 esv But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, Rom 8:7-8 esv  For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.  (8)  Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Ephesians 2:1 esv  And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— So its not really accurate to say that believers “cannot” obey, it is they are the only ones who can obey…. you say”For many are called (to believe) but only few are chosen (to become Christian)” AMEN!!! you say “Faith is all about dealing truthfully (Prov 12:22)” Well…. faith is also all about trusting Christ alone for salvation… its about believing God's promises…. sure the devils have a kind of faith, one that does not save, but I guess the point is that there are different types of faith, not just the kind mentioned in Pro 12:22… lastly, in regard to “Sinners THINK that they can “PUT ON” the new man without FIRST “putting off” the old man….” and ff…. remember sinners are not able to “put off” until they are first saved… they do not possess the ability to do this… as the scriptures show…. dead men and women can't mortify the flesh because they are slaves to it… it takes a work of God in a person's heart to enable them to mortify the flesh… for this pleasing to God…. right? God wants people to stop sinning…. but the Scripture says that those in the flesh cannot please God. They are dead dead dead in their trespasses and sins until and unless God first opens their blinded eyes. Thats the only thing I wanted clarify… many today preach a “pick yourself up by your own bootstrap” gospel…. just do this good work, or say this formulaic prayer and then “bam” (to quote a famous chef ;), you are saved…. but this just decisional regeneration, versus the true regeneration, which comes only from God… blessings, Ken .

Hello there,

You Said:
so are you sayings a person can be truly saved and still be on the road to hell….?

My response:
I am saying that believers who are not yet Christian, meaning saved can go to hell.. scriptural references, for the saints, AND the faithful brethren are here Col 1:1, Eph 1:1[/B]

You said:

Did you have any particular servant in mind…?

My Response:

Yes, those servants who are in the doctrine of Grace which is the only “one” doctrine that saves those who hear Acts 2:46,42, 1 Tim 4:16, Ts 2:10-12, 2Jn 1:9-10

You Said:

So its not really accurate to say that believers “cannot” obey, it is they are the only ones who can obey….

My Response:

Even the demons believe in Jesus, and they tremble, so its not enough to just believe, because Jesus said, we will be known by our FRUIT, not our belief.

You Said:
I guess the point is that there are different types of faith, not just the kind mentioned in Pro 12:22…

My Response:

Yes, only 2 faiths, really just one, because we start in “our own faith” (Rom 1:8), and Christians have the faith of Christ, PROVIDING they have gone through the crucifying process with Christ, so that they are no longer living their life(in their own will) but Christ is living in them (so that they could live unto God for others)(Gal 2:20.) This is why it is said that we need to come from (our) faith to (the) faith (of Christ) so that we can live just by His faith (Rom 1:17, Hab 2:4).

You Said:

remember sinners are not able to “put off” until they are first saved… they do not possess the ability to do this… as the scriptures show…. dead men and women can't mortify the flesh because they are slaves to it… it takes a work of God in a person's heart to enable them to mortify the flesh…

My Response:

We start off as sinners in our own faith however under the instruction of Grace, we learn to ASK God to help us mortify or put off what needs to be put off, so that God would put on the new man because he has been renewed in knowledge to ask for these things, we are Christian when we bome new because God has worked to put the old man and his dead work off. Col 3:5-14

I hope I answered your questions satisfactorily.
Thank you for responding.
Zianna

[Ztheberean]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 02 2008,14:45)

Hi Z, Grace came through Jesus Christ. Grace is given unto faith and repentance but thence we must seek and obey. Some believe in magic and being forced by grace unto salvation but we must work out our salvation in fear and trembling. Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Hi Nick,

You Said:

Grace is given unto faith and repentance but thence we must seek and obey.
Some believe in magic and being forced by grace unto salvation but we must work out our salvation in fear and trembling.

My Response:

We can't seek and obey without God's help and strength, because in our own strength, we are not able to fulfill His will. This is what Grace IS God working, not us working, but we have to ASK Him to work, and our ask cannot be amiss because of lusts or we get nothing from Him, our ask is so that we can be a benefit unto others.
Again, without us receiveing grace, we cannot have the obedience that is in His name (Rom 1:5) And this is speaking of us being TAUGHT the doctrine of grace so that we can have obedience from our hearts (Rom 6:17).

[Ztheberean]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 02 2008,13:13)

Zthebrean……….AMEN, AMEN, Brother as Jodi would say, YOU nailed it Brother. Its all about GRACE (God's influencing on the Heart). Many PROFESS GOD , but deny  the (POWER THEREOF) They want people to believe its all up to themselves, this is False Christianity. There so-called (FREE WILLS) Has nothing to do with salvation. It is a gift (FROM GOD). Again Amen brother. Bless you brother these teachings need to be understood here and everywhere, It's not by (OUR WILLS) we are saved it is the WILL of GOD working by Faith through the operation of (HIS) GRACE (His influencing on the heart). May the Lord bless you and keep you, make His face to shine on you and Be GRACIOUS unto you, lift up His countenance on you and give you peace………………….gene

Hi Gene!

Thank you for the encouragement brother, I am a sister just to let you know. I couldn't have said it better. You are one of the few that really get it, meaning that it's all about God working, which is GRACE how refreshing.
God bless you, and be gracious upon you too.

Z

[Ztheberean]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 02 2008,11:54)

Hi Z, Even Jesus will was alive and well in Gethsemene just before his death. God does not want zombies but children devoted to Him by choice Psalm 123 1Unto thee lift I up mine eyes, O thou that dwellest in the heavens. 2Behold, as the eyes of servants look unto the hand of their masters, and as the eyes of a maiden unto the hand of her mistress; so our eyes wait upon the LORD our God, until that he have mercy upon us.

Nick,

You Said:

Hi Z,
Even Jesus will was alive and well in Gethsemene just before his death.

My response:

Jesus did not come to do His will, but the will of the Father who sent Him (Jn 5:30) Jesus did NOTHING of Himself except what the Father taught Him (Jn 8:28) Jesus didn't speak “His own” words but the words of the Father (Jn 14:10)
Jesus came down from heaven NOT to do “His will” but the Father who sent Him (Jn 6:38)

[Ztheberean]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 02 2008,11:32)

Hi Z, So we must strive by an action of our will to put our will to death? Is this not just another form of attempted self salvation-an impossible task? Frankly I do not think we are to strive and daily submission allows the sovereignty of God.

Hi Nick,

NO, NO we cannot put our own will to death, the whole point of the post is that we must ASK God to put our will to death so that we can do His will. For He gives us a willingness first, and then causes us to perform for His pleasure (Phil 2:13)It's all about God's performance, not ours.

I hope I answered your question. Thanks for responding.
Z

[Ztheberean]

Quote (Irene @ Aug. 12 2008,23:42)

God made several Covenants with the People of God. I do have a question to you. What Coenant are we under? Irene

GRACE, which is all about God working, not us working

[Ztheberean]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2008,07:36)

thanks Z

Welcome!

[Ztheberean]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 18 2008,03:43)

ztheberean……..if you look at the post before this one notice all the counter dictions , on the one hand it's God who Predestines and Elect a person, on the other hand it;s the person who choses it. Jesus plainly said (NO) and (CAN) come unto me except the Father draw (Greek drag) Him ,either way, It;s God who Does it according to Jesus, but not according to them , to them it your own so-called “FREE WILL” that does it. They love to leave GOD the Father out of the picture completely.  When if it weren't for him (NO ONE) could ever have been saved. peace to you………….. gene

YES< and Amen brother, that IS the truth, and thank you for pointing out that counter dicition,I did see it. Those who have experienced that we don't have free will understand that God moved us to choose Him.
This is why it is said that “self-willed” believers are also presumptuous because they are still walking in their flesh which needs to be crucified so that they could belong to Christ. (2Pet 2:10, Gal 5:24)

It's all about God the Father creating Christ in His “gifted”workmanship so thaT NO ONE would boast that they brought Christ into themselves which is impossible. (Eph 2:10-8, Rom 10:6-7) And this gigt of God working (not us working) needs to be ASKED for.

[Ztheberean]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 16 2008,10:05)

Welcome Ztheberean Hang around, for their isnt a whole lot of love and humility and esteeming others better than themselves going around here. There sure is a lot of insisting that their truth is the only way and everyone else is blind and in error. There is also a lot of elitist attitudes and exalting of themselves through patronizing and condescending while at the same time claiming to be “controlled” by the Holy Spirit without an act of their wills (I wonder if when they speak in tongues they only do it when the Spirit overtakes them or do they act on their own will and speak and then the Spirit takes controll?), and claiming that their God “does it all” without an act of their own will. It seems that if “God does it all” and they are being led by the Holy Spirit they would be harmless as doves and wise as serpents. However, very often they attack the personality of the person rather than the error of the doctrine by calling them “liars” and “deceivers” and “heritics”, usually over a doctrine that may show truth both ways. These seem to be characteristics of a wolf and not one led by the Holy Spirit. Furthermore it is not like these are blatant decievers they attack, but in fact are true believers or sheep, that Love the Father and Yeshua and believe Yeshua is the Son of God. So welcome to the world of Christianity by election and enforced grace, where the love of God is overtaking mens hearts by grace and draging and forcing them into submission to him. Little wonder they try and force their doctines upon men by their accusations that theirs is the only truth, for the God in whom they serve forces himself on them. Strangest thing, if these men are confident that “God does it all” without an act of their will to submit and walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh, then why are they not testifying of the sick that are being healed through them, and the souls that are being saved and the deaf ears that are opened and the blind eyes seeing and the lame walking? And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. 1 Cor 2:4,5 Notice the “choice” of “their faith” standing in the wisdom of men or the power of God. Again, welcome and Blessings! WJ

Hello WJ,

Thank you for the warm welcome! I am not used to this, I am very refreshed and encouraged by it.

You Said:
So welcome to the world of Christianity by election and enforced grace, where the love of God is overtaking mens hearts by grace and draging and forcing them into submission to him.

My Response:

I couldn't have said that any better! The reason why most believers admit this is because “they chose” God in their own will, and they don't understand that it's all about GOD choosing, not us. And this IS why their faith is trusting in men, and NOT in the power of God in His words.
Amen.
Z

[Ztheberean]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 16 2008,07:52)

Hi and welcomeZ, Presumably all men are not within this way of communion with God and others. We cannot install ourselves or look to any works of our own to enter. Then many of the things you write about indeed are life. So how are we to enter this way? How is rebirth perfection?

Hello Nick,

Thanks for the welcome. You can say that again.
This is why it is said, many are called, few are chosen. The narrow way is repentance which leads to LIFE, which few find, unless a faithful minister is sent unto them to impart the spiritual gift (of grace in all of its teaching) so that we can be established in the faith and not ignorant. (Mk 6:3-4, Mt 7:14, Rom 1:11&13)
Those who have true faith towards God have laid a foundation upon repentance from their dead works so that they could have God's permission to go on unto perfection (Heb 6:1& 3).

Blessings in His truth which reveals the grace of God (1Cor 13:6, Col 1:6)

Z

[Ztheberean]

Quote (seekingtruth @ July 16 2008,07:02)

Ztheberean, Welcome, you bought up a lot of good points. Look forward to more of your posts. Wm

Hello Wm,

Thank you for the warm welcome and encouragement. This is not the norm for my posts, so I am grateful to God that I can edify some with His words.

Z

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