Hey 94,I'm glad you believe that Jesus is the image of God. Why don't you think that the image of God actually is God?Tim

Not3in1,I think we've made our points. You don't believe the Nicene Creed, and I don't believe what you say about Jesus. I don't have anything else to add. Is there anything in the Nicene Creed you'd like to discuss?Tim

Hey Nick,Eternally begotten means, according to Louis Berkhof, “it is a timeless act, the act of an eternal present, an act always continuing and never completed.”  P. 93 of his Systematic Theology.  Now before you accuse us of teaching that Jesus is incomplete, note that he says the act is never completed -the Father always generates the Son.  …[Read more]

Hi Nick,You said:Quote God brought forth a son alone from His own being without conception or pregnancy as an image of Himself.The monogenes SON OF GODAnd I … AGREE! Surprise!The only area where we might disagree is whether or not this happened at a moment of time, to which I say no, but that the begetting is eternal.But you said that in the…[Read more]

I write **** because I can't bring myself to write God when referring to your version of the physical birth of Jesus.I would hope you would agree that the general case when a man and a woman become one flesh is that they produce a child.  Of course after the fall, the curse often prevents this, through infertility, barrenness, etc.Quote Did God…[Read more]

Hi Not3in1,Quote You have two things going on here – first you say that you believe Jesus is the literal Son of God, meaning he is God….WAIT.  Is a literal son his Father?  No.  So you do not believe Jesus is the literal Son of God.I never said that Jesus is His Father.  I really hoped you would know my belief on that by now, and I wouldn't hav…[Read more]

I believe it.

Hi Not3in1,I believe Jesus is the literal Son of God, meaning He is God, just as a son of man is man, a son of a cat is a cat, etc. I don't believe God requires someone else in order to beget a true Son. And I know that Jesus preexisted as a person, for He is before all things (Colossians 1:17). I don't see anywhere in the Bible where it says,…[Read more]

Not3in1,We should probably discuss this on the conception thread, but I think we've both said everything we have to say. You can't conceive of the incarnation, or of the pre-existence of Jesus; and I just can't conceive of **** having a sperm and it going into Mary. I'm sorry but I just can't accept that. Tim

Hi David,So the issue is whether or not God shares a common attribute with creation, which you call “godlike, having divine nature, spirit.”  Agreed?The relevant Scriptures are:John 1:1 -“and Theos was the Word.”  Some scholars believe that Theos, though a noun, is used here in a qualitative sense, as in, “The Word had the nature of God.”Acts 1…[Read more]

Hi Not3in1,Thanks for responding to my question. It sounds as though you basically understand the Definition of Chalcedon -the two natures come together to form one person, but are not fused, and the characteristics of each nature are preserved. Of course I can't accept the oil and water as a perfect analogy because it's not perfect, but it does…[Read more]

Quote Fusing of natures is a nonbiblical teaching.I agree, that's what I said. Not3in1 is the one who said Jesus is a mixed breed.Quote Jesus is a man and because of that we can relate to him and he to us and he could be our sacrifice.I agree again.Quote Jesus partook of our flesh natureI agree.Quote Jesus, the normal man, was conceived in…[Read more]

Hi Not3in1,Thanks for your sincere question.  I'm glad we can talk about this.I did not embrace the creeds until very recently (around February), and it wasn't because I wanted to join the crowd in my church.  I've always been pretty stubborn, as you can tell, and I've left several churches in the past over issues that are comparatively i…[Read more]

Well, I'd say we're getting away from the topic of dualism, but this is actually where dualism is most relevant, when consider Jesus, who is both God and man. First I'd say that two natures don't mean two persons. This is what Nestorius said and what the Definition of Chalcedon rebuked. The great thing about history is that millions of people…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ April 06 2007,15:46)Quote (Tim2 @ April 05 2007,07:42)Hi Not3in1,Paul says you have to confess that Jesus is Lord in order to be saved.  4 verses later he tells us who that Lord is, YHWH.  So I hope that is your confession.As for coerced repentance, YHWH did it to Israel all the time.  It is terrifying to me, but it is still be…[Read more]

Quote Did God make everything through Christ or not?I know I'm not Cultbuster, but yes. Tim

Hi t8,Quote Stephen called upon God and then spoke to Jesus who was at the right hand of God.Well, I don't see “He called on God and then Jesus” anywhere in the text; but everyone can see that just by reading it. I'd rather discuss the other stuff we've brought up, if you're willing?Quote I said that if Jesus is one with God, then that shouldn't…[Read more]

Quote He through the authority of the emperor, laid a stumbling block that many to this day cannot overcome.And I suppose by the authority of the Emperor he exiled himself 5 times? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasius_of_AlexandriaSemi-arianism became the law in the Roman Empire for 50 years after Nicea. The doctrine of Nicea survived in…[Read more]

Hi t8,My point was that praying to Jesus alone doesn't exclude the Father, and I don't see how you can say that it does.Quote I think I have made it clear that the attributes/postion/priviledge you speak of that makes Christ God to you, also refer to us (believers/followers of Christ). Your evidence is:Quote John 14:20On that day you will realize…[Read more]

Nick and t8,Have you read Athanasius? I'm reading his “Orations against the Arians” now, and I feel as though you would both agree with his initial starting points for understanding the Son, and that he might explain the things you agree with in a way that would allow you to see how the Son is (still) God. Just a suggestion.Tim