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[TDubyu]

Quote (david @ Feb. 29 2008,13:15)

Quote Everyone will have a chance after the 1000 year reign to be a part of the church. Those not alive during in the 1000 year period will be resurrected (without their deficient/flawed bodies) to live in the kingdom (for 100 years) after the 1000 years has past. At that time because they will be in God's Kingdom and under His rule (not man's rule) and the people already in the kingdom will have built a world with a focus on God's love and therefore His laws. So things like murder, stress, disease and interest rates will be unheard of and those who are resurrected at that time will be in paradise (as Christ told the thief on the cross next to Him). NOW they can choose to follow Christ or… die never to be resurrected again. (CAPS ADDED) I pretty much agree exactly with what is stated here.   What would your comment be on this scripture: ACTS 17:30-31 “True, God has overlooked the times of such ignorance, yet now he is telling mankind that they should all everywhere repent. Because he has set a day in which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has furnished a guarantee to all men in that he has resurrected him from the dead.”” ACTS 14:16 “In the past generations he permitted all the nations to go on in their ways,” We are told also that the good news of Christ would be preached in all the nations—starting out from Jerusalem,” (luke 24:47) I do not consider what Armstrong did to be in any sense the good news being preached in all the nations.  What people did back then, starting in Jerusalem–that was preaching, and it was vastly different than what Armstrong did, was it not?

Paul was noting that past nations were able to ignore God's laws without consequences. However, eventually there will be a judgement and Christ will be the judge.

I can't help you with the preaching aspect. It's simple to me. An apostle can preach to a theater full of people or a room of just one. You are trying to “make things fit” so you feel comfortable and it doesn't work that way. Armstrong was an apostle and not a politician. So naturally he preached to them. They simply did not listen. In fact, they seemed to be more impressed with who he was as a man than his message.

This is the same thing people did and still do concerning Christ. They focus on Him (Christmas) instead of His gospel (the kingdom to come).

[TDubyu]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 29 2008,12:45)

Hi TW, You say 'Everyone will have a chance after the 1000 year reign to be a part of the church. Those not alive during in the 1000 year period will be resurrected (without their deficient/flawed bodies) to live in the kingdom (for 100 years) after the 1000 years has past. At that time because they will be in God's Kingdom and under His rule (not man's rule) and the people already in the kingdom will have built a world with a focus on God's love and therefore His laws. So things like murder, stress, disease and interest rates will be unheard of  and those who are resurrected at that time will be in paradise (as Christ told the thief on the cross next to Him). Now they can choose to follow Christ or… die never to be resurrected again.” Is this biblical teaching? Extra 100 year second chance? I have never read it anywhere there.

The specific verse is Isaiah 65:20.

God is not fiendish so no one will perish without getting a proper chance to follow God. The key is that everyone must have a chance to CHOOSE to follow God. This is important because we humans serve a purpose: to be part of the God-Family and we cannot be part of that Family unless we make a conscious CHOICE to walk righteously. There are no freebies.

[TDubyu]

Quote (david @ Feb. 29 2008,12:08)

Quote Heh,heh you are not very nice. Let me tell you there are some who did not ever hear of Mr. Armstrong. We were in the Church for 10 years so I do know that He exsisted, now are you satisfied that somebody knows?   I'm pretty sure if we did a poll of the world, less than 1% of the world would have any clue who either of these guys are and a much smaller percentage would have heard the so called good news they are preaching in all the nations before the end comes. (Mat 24:14) Just for fun, let's compare these guys with another group….oh, I don't know….Jehovah's Witnesses. Unlike Ron, JW's have come to my door.  Many on this forum have commented how they have come to their door as well.  In fact, they preach the good news in 253 lands.  30 of these countries, it is illegal to do so.  Yet, they do so anyway.  In hundreds of languages, hundreds of countries, the good news actually is being preached.  From this side of the world to the villages in the jungles on the other side, it is being preached, from house to house, from hut to hut, from town to town. And this is what we would expect of a God of love, isn't it?  This is what we would expect of a God of justice.   No one could ever say: “Well, no one told me.” But if this Ron's message is accurate, most everyone on the planet could argue that they weren't given a fair chance.  Because: “no one told me.” This is absurd.  Jesus disciples preached from “house to house.” The apostle Paul said regarding his ministry: “I did not hold back from telling you any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching you publicly and from house to house.”—Acts 20:20, 21 Notice how Christians of that time reached people with the good news: “And every day in the temple and from house to house* they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.”–Acts 5:42 (*Lit., “according to house.” Gr., kat’ oíkon. Here ka·tá is used with the accusative sing. in the distributive sense. R. C. H. Lenski, in his work The Interpretation of The Acts of the Apostles, Minneapolis (1961), made the following comment on Ac 5:42: “Never for a moment did the apostles cease their blessed work. ‘Every day’ they continued, and this openly ‘in the Temple’ where the Sanhedrin and the Temple police could see and hear them, and, of course, also κατ’ οικον, which is distributive, ‘from house to house,’ and not merely adverbial, ‘at home.’ ”) Jesus “designated seventy others and sent them forth by twos in advance of him into every city and place to which he himself was going to come.” These were not just to preach in public places but were also to contact people at their homes. Jesus instructed them: “Wherever you enter into a house say first, ‘May this house have peace.’”—Lu 10:1-7. I think maybe they went from house to house because they loved their neighbors and therefore wanted to share this life saving knowledge with as many as possible, everyone. I consider it absurd to the extreme to believe that Ron or this other guy in any way are fullfilling or have fulfilled the words of Mathew 24:14.

Hey David,

Actually, “I didn't know” doesn't apply to anyone at any time because the time will come when all will know and have a chance to be a part of the Church. This is important because even today not everyone has had a chance to hear the gospel and choose to follow God's laws. This includes people who lack the mental capacity to understand and follow God's law (think of babies and people who are mentally unstable or deficient) and of course those who know nothing about it.

Everyone will have a chance after the 1000 year reign to be a part of the church. Those not alive during in the 1000 year period will be resurrected (without their deficient/flawed bodies) to live in the kingdom (for 100 years) after the 1000 years has past. At that time because they will be in God's Kingdom and under His rule (not man's rule) and the people already in the kingdom will have built a world with a focus on God's love and therefore His laws. So things like murder, stress, disease and interest rates will be unheard of and those who are resurrected at that time will be in paradise (as Christ told the thief on the cross next to Him). Now they can choose to follow Christ or… die never to be resurrected again.

[TDubyu]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 29 2008,09:30)

Hi TW, NZ

Oi! I had some friends from NZ about 10 years ago. They were 3 very pretty women, but unfortunately I'd learn that the “let's just be friends” phrase is a global phenomenon and not just American. The good thing is that they actually meant it because they were so nice and respectful. Anyway, because of them I tend to watch what goes on over there from time to time.

The thing is, I've learned that people who live under English  parliamentary-based governmental rule are very similar. I guess it's because we are allies. Prophetically, we have much in common because both of our countries are prophesied to fall first (along with CA, UK and AU – and India is next although it's different culture).

Anyway, my friends spoke a lot about US influence on NZ, but not necessarily in a bad way. They would just state the fact that our cultures may have some slight differences, but our economies are tightly woven. You guys feel the effects of everything here, but worse! Until I met them, NZ was just a place on the map, but now if I hear the name I perk up and pay attention. In fact, you guys have your own famous Jackson. There'd be no Shire without you guys.

But no worries. The arrogance of all nations is going to pass away in just a few short years (although it'll feel like 30 years :P). Just don't go thinking that all American's have a group-think arrogance. There are some of us who do think for ourselves. To be honest, I was so fed up with the attitudes of the people here that I'd planned on moving to another country in a few years. Then I read Ron's books and changed my life. Then my priorities changed, so now I'm stuck here .

[TDubyu]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 29 2008,08:33)

Hi, How rare is it to see anything posted about any other country by an American. They are so myopically vain that they seem to feel the rest of the world goes around the USA. Even the World News we see here is never about the world but what happens in the US. That attitude puts them at more risk by raising the resentment of the rest of the world against her than any other IMHO.

Nick,

Yes, most people here are arrogant, but our nation didn't become successful because of our arrogance. Our arrogance came after the success (which is typical). However, to be clear, our nation's vast success was promised by God (just as our downfall has been prophesied by God).

There is no extra “risk” we are taking that will lead to our downfall. As far as I'm concerned, nationalism is somewhat irrelevant at this point in time. America (and all of man's self rule on earth) is coming to an end no matter what anyone does. That's the nature of prophecy.

BTW, we never forced Michael Jackson, Star Wars or the Internet on anyone else in the world. Everyone else latched on for themselves

Hmm… your country is mostly reporting US news during the world news report? How is that our fault? News conglomerates all over the world report whatever makes money. It's never always about the news (or the truth).

And just to make you happy… Federated States of Micronesia. There. I mentioned another country Its sole role in end-time prophecy is much less than that of America's, though.

So what country do you live in? I tend to read news from around the world. It can be very interesting. I'll look you up.

[TDubyu]

Broncs453,Feb. wrote:

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Water – There is something that you fail to pick up on, and it is very important.  You are automatically assuming that “terrorism” means coming from a foreign country.  Terrorism can come from within one's own country, just like 9/11.  I have listened to Ron very carefully, to see if he ever states that 9/11 was caused by “Al-Qaeda” or the like, and he does not.  If he did, that would expose him (at least to me) as a false prophet.  The reason being because 9/11 was 100%, beyond any shadow of a doubt, an inside job.  All you people that think I'm some conspiracy nut, pull your head out of your a$$.  The collapse of the twin towers at free-fall speed defies fundamental laws of physics unless the buildings were dynamited.  End of story.  Ron says that terrorism is behind the nukes, but it will be from within OUR OWN COUNTRY.  Remember that when it happens.

I agree. People are stuck in the “terrorism means the other guy” frame of mind. People should realize that the world is comprised of kingdoms with leaders that have mixed known and unknown alliances that are constantly changing. Our government and corporate America have been controlling the public for over 200 years. Each year they have gotten better at it. That's why they can sell us down the river so easily.

So people should stop putting all the blame on Bush. This stage has been set by the policies set by many previous administrations. The Bush administration is the worse, but not the first. Hey, Clinton did some very dastardly deeds too.

America's economy could fail before the bombs drop. Cripple a country's economy and the only thing left is its so-called “resolve”. You know, that “believe in yourself” nonsense. People waving flags and such on TV commercials… stars doing music concerts. Stuff that doesn't mean a darn thing 'cause after the commercial ends and the concert is over, you still can't afford a loaf of bread.

In such a state, a “few” bombs are all you need. In WWII the US dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki and that effectively ended the war. Japan surrendered, but many analyst will tell you that Japan's economy crashed because of the war's expense, so it was on the verge of surrender anyway! So, if you destroy the US economy, the bombs are just clinchers for a chapter in a story that already coming to an end.

So DC (goodbye capitol hill), NYC (goodbye NYSE), Chicago (goodbye commerce), LA (goodbye Hollywood), Seattle, Toronto, Vancouver, etc will probably be hit by bombs. Moving weapons of mass destruction around the US is not easy even if it's an inside job. However, when the economy is destroyed, physically conquering the people will be easier. You don't attack a country that's rich in resources. The Germans learned this in WWII. The Euro isn't stomping the life out of the dollar by accident! The US itself uses economic sanctions for a reason… It works. It will depress a state. And a failed economy will hit us hard because most of us are used to luxuries and have easygoing lifestyles. People will have a rough time if the local stores run out of nothing more than toilet paper. Now imagine the local store being closed permanently because no one works there anymore and the great American supply chain ceases to exist. Drop a few nuclear bombs for good measure, take over what's left of the deployed naval fleets (fairly easy) and game over.

And then there are the 250 million people who are prophesied to die in America. Nuclear destruction/fallout, lack of food/water, and exposure to the elements will be the culprits.

[TDubyu]

Okay, okay. I haven't read the entire thread, but so far it reads like the original ATS thread, but less caustic and at least we don't have to worry about being banned or the thread being shut down (I hope).

I'd just like to say to that brethren need to stop trying to convince people. Only God can do that. Just state your beliefs and move on. Retort and move on. Answer questions and move on. MOST of the people on the earth are deceived and they CANNOT help it. They cannot use reasoning to determine truth. Neither can we. Debating doesn't change that simple and immutable fact.

If a friend or family member had told me about Ron and COG-PKG, I wouldn't even have wasted my time going to his web sites (out of pride in knowing that I already know the truth and everyone else is an idiot). However, God revealed Himself to me in a way that circumvented my pride. I assume that most people are similar. You cannot expect everyone to adhere to what you believe by quoting excerpts from any book or sermon. Did not Christ have relatively few disciples? Was not Satan able to find many angels to follow him? Hey, it is what it is. In fact, it's supposed to be that way.

Don't become self-righteous and upset. For all you know God will open the eyes of some or all of the people here in His time. Beating people over the head with the truth doesn't work. You only end up hurting them (and yourself). I know… I've tried… and that's what happens.

Just keep in mind the many people who are only watching. You'd be surprised how many people only read the thread and do not post (or even register). God may be speaking to these people and you aren't making things any easier for them because they only see you getting upset. They don't understand why. They don't understand that it's frustrating when people refuse to walk in the light because they are accustomed to walking in shadows. Don't forget that these people are forced to deal with the fact that their families, friends, church leaders, rituals, observances, interpretations, etc. are all incorrect. Your “good word” cannot surmount those obstacles. Again, only God can do that.

I remember finding the original thread on ATS because I was looking for answers. It was the words of several gentle people who responded to the mob truthfully and gracefully that got my attention. They didn't debate. As more people were called into the Church, more people found the ATS forum and things got ugly very quickly (I'm no exception). This served no purpose except to build pride on both sides of the line. As Ron stated in a past sermon, “none of us are worthy”. In other words, God gave some of us an opportunity and we accepted it, but we still aren't worthy of it. Pride has no place.

On a separate note, for those who are making assumptions about COG-PKG, know this. I haven't met a more down-to-earth group of people. No one forces you to do anything (ergo: it is not a cult). Everyone is loving even though we are all different in personality, race, geography, experience, etc. We look out for each other, too. I've simply never seen a traditional Christian church exemplify love like COG-PKG. Instead they wrap themselves in rules and rituals for the sake of having rules and rituals. No one wants to learn about God because they think they know it all.

As for prophecy… Man, I don't don't know where to begin. On a practical note, many people will be deceived because they believe too much in the power of man. It doesn't matter how many insiders reveal that the American financial system has been reduced to a house of cards. Most people will still not believe it until it collapses. Furthermore, Joe & and Jane Sixpack are too comfortable. Sure, they might complain about things, but they will still hop into the SUV and go visit grandma for Christmas and load her tree down with gifts. That means they are in denial. Let them be. It will take a 3.5 year tribulation to humble some people. Meanwhile the majority still wont believe. Just be blessed knowing that you do believe.

For those of you who are on the fence, I can't tell you how good it feels. The world's climate doesn't torment me anymore. I have peace of mind. I know my purpose (that is, I know the meaning of life). I finally know God's truth. It's a horrible feeling not knowing which religion or domination professes the truth, but now I can spot a false truth in a fraction of a second and know why it is a lie (not just because someone told me it was). Do you know how awesome that is? That's not something you can do with the brain. Scholars can't “figure it out”. It MUST come from God and God is not a God of confusion.

But those are all things people have to choose to experience for themselves. And I don't mean to sound preachy seeing as I was only just baptized this past weekend

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