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[OneLadyBand]

Mary>>
Recall Jesus' heartfelt prayer throughout John 17 where he began “Father…”
In the course of that chapter, Jesus asks HIS GOD/Father to allow him, after his earthly life is done, to merely gain back the same position he had in heaven before he came to earth. For his faithfulness, of course, HIS GOD/Father gave him more than he had before, and exalted him to a position even higher than he ever had before in heaven. However, before his earthly life, for aeons unknown, he was God's “Only-begotten Son” in heaven. John 3:16 says that God sent his “only-begotten Son,” thus showing that he already consideed the “only-begotten Son” before he came to earth. He is the one to whom HIS GOD/Father is speaking in Genesis 1, when he says “Let US make man in our image…”
God was not talking to himself in that verse.

: )

[OneLadyBand]

——————————————————————————–
Nick Hassan writes:
Hi Casiphus,
Indeed the trinity doctrine, which never appeared in any of the sacred writings, has continued to evolve ever since it appeared 200 years or so after Christ. Both facts argue against it having any origin in God at all.

Mary>>>I couldn't agree with you more, Nick.
Of course, archaeology being what it is, many ancient writings, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls, have come to light since the Bible was translated from the Greek. However, our endeavor should be, one would think, to understand these basic Christian beliefs the very same way that those first century followers of Christ understood them, who were taught by the Master himself, as God revealed himelf to the Jews, then to the Christians, and thus those peoples would have held the key to whether or not God Almighty exists triune.

In going back and reading the Bible as a whole and in context, no hint of trinity doctrine as it has been understood for hundreds of years, comes to light. There is not one non-spurious, legitimate text that describes God existing made up of three separate and distinct persons who are all equal. Such a situation only leads to the obvious belief in three equal “Gods,” rather than one “God” existing in 1/3rd increments. Such a belief certainly is not found between the pages of any Bible translation I have seen, to date, in 20-plus years.

: )

[OneLadyBand]

Quote (Oxy @ Nov. 21 2006,05:53)
I think it's interesting that God foreknew people. In other words, we were known of God before birth, yet before birth we were no man's son.
Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be the First-born among many brothers.
BTW, The same goes for Jesus Christ!
Before birth he was no one's son.
However he was foreknown!

Mary>>>I have to disagree that before his human birth Jesus was no one's son. He might not have been another MAN's “son,” but before his human birth, he certainly was HIS GOD/Father's SON.

Recall Jesus' heartfelt prayer throughout John 17 where he began “Father…”
In the course of that chapter, Jesus asks HIS GOD/Father to allow him, after his earthly life is done, to have merely the same position he had in heaven before he came to earth. For his faithfulness, of course, HIS GOD/Father gave him more than he had before, and exalted him to a position even higher than he ever had before in heaven. However, for aeons unknown, he was God's “Only-begotten Son” in heaven. He is the one to whom HIS GOD/Father is speaking in Genesis 1, when he says “Let US make man in our image…”
God was not talking to himself in that verse

: )

[OneLadyBand]

Nick Hassan: How the (pagan!) trinity has been adopted by all Christians

Mary>>>Yes, it has.
I was readig in your article, and did a modicum of research and found your green website where you got all that information.

One thing that piqued my interest in what you posted was the “IHS.”
They claim that is the first THREE letters of Jesus' name?
Why THREE? There's only TWO MORE. Why not use them ALL?
It's the ancient in origin: the “IHS” actually stands for “Isis, Horus and Seth.”
Very interesting site, and thanx for posting it.

: ) Mary

[OneLadyBand]

Quote (OneLadyBand @ July 19 2007,02:32)
On another topic:
Does anyone else have trouble with the words on the screen keeping up with your typing? I constantly have to go back and make corrections where letters are left out, becaue it just can't seem to keep up. Irritating. : )

I haven't noticed. Perhaps you are a much faster typer than me though. Do you have the same problem in other apps?

Hi, T8:
I am a touch typer,that is true. This is a brand new keyboard, and works very well other places online. I have AOL, and it works good on their mesage boards.
Dunno what's the prob.

[OneLadyBand]

kejohn:
John was speaking in 1:7. No reason to assume that this verse belongs to Yeshua, especially since “Almighty” was never attributed to him.

Mary>>>Heartily agreed that the term “Almighty” has NEVER been applied to Jesus Christ. He is “Mighty” bute is NOT “All-mighty.”

KEJ>Quote
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Who is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, the first and the last?
“I am the first and the last, and besides me there is no God.” (Isaiah 44:6)
Your base verse fell short of proving Yeshua, the rest merely affirm God. Thanks.

Mary>>Agreed again that the title of Alpha and Omega belongs to God the Father Almighty. But, as in many terms used of various people in scripture (the term “god” being one, having been applied to others besides Almighty God, mos notably to angels and to men) the term Alpha and Omega can have different meaning when applied to one being that it does when applied to another.

KEJ:Quote
Turn to Revelation 1:17-18 which says, “Do not be fearful; I am the first and the last, and the living one; and I became dead but look! I am living forever.”
Is “first and last” a title? Some would have us think so, but can it be something else?

Mary>>If you look u the Greek words that appear in all those verses, you willfind them different. The words “first and last” are different words than “Alpha and Omega.” Alpha and Omega have SYMBOLIC meaning simply because those two words happen to be the first letter and the last one of the Gk. alphabet. It is similar to us comparing “A and B” and saying it's te same as “first and last,” when it is not the same AT ALL.

KEJ>1 Cor 15:45 – So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL ” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
Beyond that, since it is well established that Yeshua existed as the Word with God, “first and the last” can also be applied to him.

Quote
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations:and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Are you still using this verse to try to prove Yeshua is God? The winepress belongs to God, Yeshua is the one who is trampling the “bad grapes”. Please read carefully.

Quote
Isa 9:6 also describes Jesus as The mighty God
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor,The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Almighty > Mighty. Besides, “his name shall be called” means he will have a name that reflects this. Since Yeshua has not any of these in his name, we haven't seen the person spoke of in Isaiah 9:6.

Mary>>>Yeshua WOULD BE called those things in Isaiah's futue. Yes, the world has seen that one who would carry those names, but those names would be applied to him after he accomplished certain things of God's will.
But,that is getting away from whether or not God exists triune.

: )

[OneLadyBand]

CB writes:
NWT II Cor 3:17
Now Jehovah is the Spirit; and where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom.

Mary>>>Does this sound unreasonable or contradictory to you, considering how JWs (since you quoted the NWT above) view Almighty God?

Think about it:
Of course Jehovah (AlmightyGod, the God of the Jews) “IS” the Spirit.
That spirit is his inherent force, and what he USES to create and do every thing that he wills. It was the power he used to create the universe, and he can give it to whom he wishes. He is the ultimate Deligator of authority.

1 n 4:8 also says “God IS love.” But Love is not a person, is it? No. It's a quality that is sometimes poetically personified in scripture, just as wisdom is, and sin is. And so “spirit” is also personified because of the powerful works that it does when ALmighty God sends it to do his will.

The KJV says at Romans 8:16 and 26
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Now I looked up the Greek word “autos,” here translated “itself.”
The usage for this word can be “himself,” “herself,” “themselves,” or “itself.”
Therefore, by the simple word “autos” one cannot determine what gender it is referring to, whether it even is referring to a gender or not, or whether it's referring to a single or a plural entity.
The translators own interpretation is therefore up for grabs.

However, Romans 8:16, 26, and Numbers 11:25 shows that the Holy Spirit is NOTalways referred to in the masculine “he”.
ASV: Num 11:25 And Jehovah came down in the cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the Spirit that was upon him, and put IT upon the seventy elders:

There God's spirit is referred to as an “it” in many, various Bible translations, most notably, the KJV, Darby and Webster.

Mary : )

[OneLadyBand]

t8
Yes it is very pridefull to hold on to a belief that says “God” made all things through a “lessor being” “or a “smaller god' than himself when scriptures are clear that “by himself”, “alone” he made all things!

Mary>>>How is it prideful, WJ? The very context of Jn 1:1 demands that Jesus be understood to NOT be the “God” whom he was “with.” Taking into consideration Isa 9:6, where the Son is called “Mighty God,” we do indeed see that Jesus is a peson of authority, i.e., a “God” by Biblical descripton, and yet he is NOT God the Father Almighty.
God the FatherAlmighty proves to be YHWH, the Most High God, the very One to whom Jesus, the Son, prayed and yes, WORSHIPED (Rev 3:12).
I heartily embrace the Bible in CONTEXT, as a WHOLE, and each book in context, as well as the chapters, and, there really is no legitimate, non-spurious scriptures that prove God exists in three equal beings.

WJ continues:
Jn 1:1
In the beginning “God” created the heavens and the earth!

Mary>>>And so I ask you, WJ, WHICH “God” did the creating?
I agree that it was Almighty God. He created it “alone” in that it is solely from him that the power, the Spirit, comes, and he can delegate it to whomever he wishes. In the begnning (Gen 1), AlmightyGod delegated his Spirit to his first creation, his already only-begotten Son (Col 1:15; Rev 1:14), and this is why the scripture says that “all things were created by him and THROUGH him.”
They were created “by” Jesus in that he was the instrument that HIS GOD used to do the creating. AN IMPORTANT PART OF THIS UNDERSTANDING IS THAT JESUS GAVE NO HELP OF HIS OWN TO HIS GOD IN THE CREATIVE PROCESS, AND THUS THE SCRIPTURE SAYS HE DID It “alone.” Jesus had NOTHING inherently. ALL things that he had and was came from HIS GOD as he liberally expressed.

When we read that God says “there is no one beside me,” and “no one like me” he is stating that there is no being EQUAL to him.

WJ>And yet we read by a strict Monotheistic Jew…
John.1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and *without him was not any thing made that was made*.

Mary> See? “That same was in the beginning” [of creation] WITH [HIS] GOD, (Rev 3:12).

The word “monotheism” (meaning that no other Gods exist except one) really is something coined by mankind. You cannot really apply that word to the Jews or imply that YHWH viewed the universe as “monotheistic” because HE HIMSELF CALLED OTHER BEINGS “Gods,” thus showing that HE accepted that others be described by that word who were his supporters an worshipers, and not just he false gods like Marduk. He had it recorded that angels men be called by that word.
Now, to CHRISTIANS there is ONE ALMIGHTY GOD, but there are definitely other persons of authority (See Vine's Expository Dict., “God”) working UNDER that Almighty God, suchas his faithful Son.

On another topic:
Does anyone else have trouble with the words on the screen keeping up with your typing? I constantly have to go back and make corrections where letters are left out, becaue it just can't seem to keep up. Irritating. : )

Mary : )

[OneLadyBand]

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Haha, what's funny about this post is quoting 2 Timothy 4:3-4. The Trinity doctrine was written well after Paul wrote these words. Makes ya think, doesn't it?
Physician, heal thyself.

Mary>>>Heartily agreed! LOL

: )

[OneLadyBand]

Quote:
Hi Is 1:18
According to your post he is either God or a false God… what happened to Son of God??
Hugs
Phoenix

Mary>>
I agree.
The idea that if Jesus is not Almighty God then he must be a “false god” is terribly misleading and ignorant of what the scriptures teach regarding the truly broad usage of the word “god”.

According to Vine's, the term “god” simply means a person of authority, and can mean Almighy God, but is NOT EXCLUSIVE to that meaning, but takes in other persons of God-given authority, such as angels and even men (Psalm 82:1,6, quoted in Jn 10:34,35). They were “gods in their capacity as representatives of YHWH.
In a similar way, Moses was told that he was to serve as “God” to Aaron and to Pharaoh.–
Exodus 4:16 NASB
16″Moreover, he shall speak for you to the people; and he will be as a mouth for you and you will be as God to him.

Exodus 7 ASV
1 And Jehovah said unto Moses, See, I have made thee as God to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Also, nothing happened to the Son OF God, in my estimation. He is STILL the SON, and always will be.
SONS are NEVER as old as their fathers, simply because their fathers begat them.
This is why Jesus is called God's SON–he came into exisence AFTER the one whom HE ADDRESSES AS “MY GOD.”
This, too, is why HE addresses God as “MY FATHER”: Fathers come before Sons and are ALWAYS older than they, and sons COME FROM fathers.

Trinitarians call Jesus “God the Son,” and yet this phrase does not appear anywhere in scripture, nor does the concept that he is in any way EQUAL TO the one whom HE ADDRESSES AS “MY GOD.” (John 20:17)

In Jn 20:17, the exalted, resurrected Jesus made it very plain to the woman that HE worshiped the SAME GOD that SHE worshiped.

Are WE equal to those whom WE address as “MY GOD?” (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12;Heb 1:9).
Neither is Jesus.

Revelation 3:12 and Heb 1:9 were both written AFTER Jesus' death and exaltation to heaven, and yet, even now, Jesus STILL speaks of HIS FATHER as “MY GOD,” showing strongly his INEQUALITY to HIS GOD.
Trintarians worship Jesus as if he were EQUAL TO HIS GOD.
If he were, he would not address him as “MY GOD”.

I still want to know HOW a person can worship a God who exists in three separate, distinct PERSONS who are all EQUAL, and still CLAIM to worship “one” God. That is a very awkward situation, since the Bible tells us that Almighty God is “one” (echad–one, a number).

: )

[OneLadyBand]

Please let me clarify one thing further on the “alone” and “by myself” question:

YHWH did create the universe “alone” and “by himself” in that it was HIS POWER ALONE, and HIS AUTHORITY ALONE which accomplished the task.

However, other scriptures do say that the world was made “through” Jesus Christ.
In the doing, Jesus was the instrument HIS GOD/Father used to do the creating.

: ):blues:

[OneLadyBand]

(OneLadyBand)
I read where someone mentioned how the universe was created, citing the scripture that said YHWH did it “alone.”
In my endeavor to understand the context of the Bible as a whole, having once been a trinity-believer and since then studied many translations and come to the conclusion against the doctrine, I consider how Almighty God could have created it all “alone,” and yet created it “through” his Son, as other scriptures say.

As many words express various meanins considering how they are applied, the word “through” applies to both the Father and the Son in different ways:

It applies to the Father, as creation took place through him as him being the source of it, the one who purposed it, then worked to bring it to fruition.

The word “through” applies to the Son in that creation took place through him as him being the instrument used by the source.

The same word can be used, however, the meaning, the position of those two involved, is not the same. If one questions that fact, 1 Corinthians 8:6 really takes away any confusion, showing that the “one God” (Jn 17:3) “the Father,” obviously be a wholly separate and distinct being from the “one Lord, Jesus Christ”.

” ….. yet for us there is ONE GOD, THE FATHER, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, AND ONE Lord, Jesus Christ, THROUGH WHOM are all things and through whom we exist.”
–Luke 1:31,32, John 20:17

Mary : )

OLB

You say…Quote
The word “through” applies to the Son in that creation took place through him as him being the instrument used by the source.
So “Alone” and “By myself” dosnt mean “Alone” and “By myself”?

Isa 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; *that stretcheth forth the heavens alone*; that spreadeth abroad the earth *by myself*;

Isa 45:18
For thus saith the *LORD that created the heavens; *God himself* that formed the earth and made it*; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and *there is none else*.

Mary>>>Allow me to direct a few questions back at you in answer to what you just said: “Alone and by myself doesn't mean alone and by myself”?

You do accept that “the Word was WITH God,” do you not? (Jn 1:1; John 17:5)
If you do, then no, “alone” and “by myself” do not mean “alone” and “by myelf,” in every strict sense of the word.

You do accept that there are three PERSONS included in the Godhead, do you not (if not, please disregard this part)?
If you do, then no, “alone” and “by myself” do not mean “alone” and “by myself” in every strict sense of the word.

You do accept that Jesus was existing eternally as being a part of the Godhead as long as the Father has existed, do you not? (Most trinitarians do not believe that Jesus IS the Father, so this quetion would be applicable)
If you do, then, no, “alone and by myself” do not mean “alone and by myself” in the strictest sense of the word.
Do you see my point?

: )

[OneLadyBand]

Quote Nick Hassan
Hi and welcome OLB,
We did have one trinitarian who said when you pray you never know whicjh member of the trinity would take the call!
It is a load of cobblers and a distraction from good bible learning

Going by the way some pray due to Trinity indoctrination, it seems to be the case from what I have observed.

Mary>>
So, according to that, when we pray, we never know which one of the three “picks up the phone”? I wonder how they distinguish which one gets it, considering that Jesus, in Matthew 6, instructed Christians to pray TO THE FATHER in HIS name, not even mentioning the Holy spirit at all. Someone is taking the Father's “calls” illegally!

See, this is what is so confusing about trinity doctrine:
Most of the scriptures that trinitarians use to prove it only mention two, and leave out the Holy spirit, which, at best, would indicate some kind of duality rather than trinity. For trinity, obviously, three is needed.
Nor does any legitimate, non-spurious text mention anything like all three being separate and distinct AND EQUAL. On the other hand, there are numerous scriptures which clearly describe Jesus' INEQUALITY to HIS GOD/Father, even AFTER he went back to heaven EXALTED, such as Rev 3:12 and Heb 1:9, in which Jesus himself clearly has someone whom he addresses as “MY GOD.”
Does God the Father Almighty have anyone whom HE addresses as “MY GOD?” No!

: )

: )

[OneLadyBand]

I read where someone mentioned how the universe was created, citing the scripture that said YHWH did it “alone.”
In my endeavor to understand the context of the Bible as a whole, having once been a trinity-believer and since then studied many translations and come to the conclusion against the doctrine, I consider how Almighty God could have created it all “alone,” and yet created it “through” his Son, as other scriptures say.

As many words express various meanins considering how they are applied, the word “through” applies to both the Father and the Son in different ways:

It applies to the Father, as creation took place through him as him being the source of it, the one who purposed it, then worked to bring it to fruition.

The word “through” applies to the Son in that creation took place through him as him being the instrument used by the source.

The same word can be used, however, the meaning, the position of those two involved, is not the same. If one questions that fact, 1 Corinthians 8:6 really takes away any confusion, showing that the “one God” (Jn 17:3) “the Father,” obviously be a wholly separate and distinct being from the “one Lord, Jesus Christ”.

” ….. yet for us there is ONE GOD, THE FATHER, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, AND ONE Lord, Jesus Christ, THROUGH WHOM are all things and through whom we exist.”
–Luke 1:31,32, John 20:17

Mary : )

[OneLadyBand]

The scriptures you quote are post ressurection, after his coming in the flesh.
You make inference again. You have no scripture that says Jesus was a “man” with God from eternity!

Mary>>>I would disagree with Jesus being a man from his coming into being as well. There are no flesh and blood “men” in heaven, only spirit beings.

WJ>You betray your own words.
Do you change your mind regularly NH?
Listen to your own words you not to long ago said…
Quote
Hi W,
The Word WAS God.
He is now the Son of God
Do you really think he still is God?

Mary>>>If you research the real meaning of the term “god” you will find that a “god” refers to ANY person of authority, and can be relative in rank, good, bad, false or true, person or thing.

There are “gods” who are false, that people worship ahead of Almighty God. These are “gods” such as Dagon and Marduk, drugs and alcohol, and even one's own belly can be their “god.”
Any person, image, or thing can be a “god” according to how one views it.

And, I agree that Jesus was NOT the “GOD” he was WITH in Jn 1:1.

So, I ask you trinitarians, since it doesnt say he was Almighty God, then WHICH “God” WAS he?
I maintain that he was and IS “Mighty God” (Isa 9:6) under the authority of the HIS GOD/Father, the ALL-mighty God YHWH. (Isa 63:16;64:8; 2 Corin 6:18)

: )

So was he both God and man from eternity?

[OneLadyBand]

“PROSKUNEO” usage:

The Greek word proskuneo, rendered “worship” at Hebrews 1:6, is used at Psalm 97:7 in the Septuagint for the Hebrew term, “sha·chah´”, which means “to bow down.” Bowing down is an acceptable and expected act showing respect for other men. (Genesis 23:7; 1 Samuel 24:8; 2 Kings 2:15) Or it can relate to worship of the true God. It can also be wrongly directed to false gods.-Exodus 23:24; 24:1; 34:14; Deuteronomy 8:19.

Usually proskuneo shown to Jesus is the same as bowing down to kings and others. (Matthew 2:2, 8; 8:2; 9:18; 15:25; 20:20 with 1 Samuel 25:23, 24; 2 Samuel 14:4-7; 1 Kings 1:16; 2 Kings 4:36, 37.)
This bowing down, or obeisance is rendered to Jesus not as IF HE WERE Almighty God but as he correctly is, “God's Son.”-Matthew 14:32, 33; Luke 24:50-52; John 9:35, 38.

Jesus always had and always will be under the authority of the one whom he addresses as “MY GOD” in Rev 3:12; Heb 1:9; John 20:17.

Hebrews 1:6 relates to Jesus' position under HIS GOD's authority. (Philippians 2:9-11) (If he were not continuing subject TO HIS GOD, even as we speak, he would not be addressing him AS “MY GOD”–Rev 3:12; Heb 1:9).

Here some versions render proskuneo as “pay…homage” (The New English Bible), or “bow before” (An American Translation).
If one prefers the rendering “worship,” such “worship” is relative. We know this because of what Jesus told Satan:
“Thou shalt worship [a form of proskuneo] the Lord thy God and him ONLY shalt thou serve”–KJV
Matt. 4:8-10.

Though Psalm 97:7, which speaks about worshiping God, was applied to Christ at Hebrews 1:6, Paul had shown that the resurrected Jesus is “the reflection of [God's] glory and the exact representation of his very being.” (Hebrews 1:1-3) So any “worship” the angels give God's Son is relative and is directed through him to HIS GOD, YHWH.

[OneLadyBand]

Your doctrine does not align with the Monotheistic Hebrew scriptures.
There is no other “god” beside him t8.
Look…
WJ>
Isa 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Mary>>The scriptures in the Hebrew books of the Bible say that Almighty God has no one “before” him, which means that no one existed before HE existed, and no one “beside” him, meaning as his EQUAL.
When he said “neither shall there be after me” means that no one will come along in the future who will ever be EQUAL TO him.

That's what all those scriptures are about–one single entity with no one equal to Him.
The ONE (echad–“one, a number”) ALMIGHTY GOD is here saying that NO ONE has ever been equal to him in any way, and NO ONE will ever be equal to him in any way AFTER him.
This is not including those whom HE HIMSELF allowed to be called “gods,” such as the judges of ancient Israel (John 10:30+)
Those whom the Alimighty himself called “gods” were not in opposition to him, but were under his tutelage, his authority, and worked along WITH him. Among those who worked along WITH him, whom he allowed to be called by the term “God” is his first creation, his Son, Jesus Christ (Col 1:15; Rev 3:14, Isa 9:6)

Trinity doctrine disallows one to stick to the strict monotheistic belief in ONE SUPREME ALL-MIGHTY God.

HOW can you have three separate DISTINCT PERSONS who are ALL EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER and yet claim to worship ONE GOD? It does not fit, because IF you have three EQUAL “persons” then you have three EQUAL “gods.”

: ) Mary

[OneLadyBand]

I want to expound just a bit on something I said earlier, which is an important point AGAINST the EQUALTY of the triune-God doctrine.

In John 20:17, Jesus uses the term, “MY GOD,” and “MY FATHER,” showing that he HAS A GOD, just like you and I.
Are WE equal to the one WE address as “MY GOD”? Of course not, and neither is Jesus.

Some may object that this was only when Jesus was on earth that he needed a God. However, several scriptures appear that show Jesus calling Almighty God “MY GOD” even after his death on earth and exalted resurrection back to heaven.

Revelation 3:12 KJV

“Him that overcometh I will make a pillar in the temple of 'MY GOD,' and he shall go no more out; and I will write upon him the 'NAME OF MY GOD' and the name of the city of 'MY GOD', which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from 'MY GOD'; and I will write upon him my new name.”

Four times in the vs above, Jesus calls God “MY GOD,” showing that, even now as Jesus stands up as King of HIS FATHER'S KINGDOM, he STILL look to Him as being HIS GOD, just as we do!

[OneLadyBand]

NH
WJ-There is only “One God”.
Mary> One ALMIGHTY God, agreed, and that “one” ALMIGHTY God is a singular being, according to Hebrew teaching and first century Christian teaching.

WJ>Since we know that God is Spirit
Mary>>Yes, the Bible says that God is A Spirit, meaning a spirit BEING: see John 4:24 KJV. He is A spirit, a singular being, one singular entity, according to the Bible.

WJ>and there is only “One Spirit”
Mary> God possesses the Holy Spirit. It is God's “spirit” or life-power which makes all living things alive. It is what makes man live, and is sustained in our bodies by breathing. (Ecclesiastes 3:19)

Many scriptures show that the spirit is a power that God uses to accomplish his will, be it in creation, or how he uses this power by drawing us to Him.

The word, “spirit” in the Bible is used in several ways, however, and we shouldn't confuse their obvious intended expression. Some scriptures use it to describe an invisible being an angel, and some show it as a dominant mental attitud, for good or bad.

A literal “spirit” being is an angel. Jesus Christ is also said to be a spirit, he being LIKE HIS GOD/Father (1 Peter 3:18; 1 Corin. 15:44) God is said to be “A Spirit” (Jn
4:24)

WJ>and the Spirit is God and Jesus is that Spirit,
Mary>>>This is a departure from trinitarian thought as I have heard it, and I've been writing posts on AOL boards for 10 yrs.
Most trinitarians say that the Spirit IS NOT Jesus. If “God” were the Spirit, and Jesus is that same spirit, then that leaves Jesus BEING the Father as well, because Jn 17:20 and 20:17 show that the Father is JESUS' GOD.
How do you get around that?

WJ>and that “God alone” created all things, and that By Jesus “All' things were created and without him was not anything created that was created then we know that Jesus is God!

Mary>>>My undersanding is that Almighty God “alone” created Jesus, (Revelation 3:14; Colossians 1:15) then bestowed his Holy Spirit of power and authority upon his first Son, and his Son, then, went on as an instrument of HIS GOD to create angelic life and the physical universe. And, the scriptures do say that it was “THROUGH” Jesus that the universe was made.

WJ>Jesus is God
Mary>The word “god,” if you look up the meaning of it in a theological dictionary, means a “person of authority.” It is not EXCLUSIVELY used of Almighty God.
So,in your statement above, I ask you WHICH “GOD” is “Jesus”? IS he Almighty God, to you?
To me, the “God” Jesus is, in Jn 1:1, is “Mighty God” of Isa 9:6, Almighty God's SON, who works UNDER THE AUTHORITY of the one whom HE CALLS “MY GOD,” even now, after he has gone back up to heaven exalted (Revelation 3:12; Heb. 1:9).
It's all right to call Jesus “God,” but he is NOT to be understood as being Almighty God, for the scriptures never display him as such.

Mary/OLB : )

[OneLadyBand]

Hi W,
Luke 4 1And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness If Jesus was the Spirit was he filled with himself?

OLB/Mary> An excellent question. However, in speaking with trinitarians over the years, they will respond to you that Jesus ISN”T the Father, or the Spirit, but is himself alone. It seems that the term, “Almighty God” encompasses the three, to them. The term, “Almghty God” is like a title, and not the embodiment of a PERSON.

I object to that understanding, however, for these reasons:
In scripture, no matter what translation you use, “Almighty God” is proven to be the Father only. Please follow these identifying scriptures to their logical concluion:

“Jehovah”/YHWH IS Almighty God:
Gen 17:1 ASV: “Jehovah…I am God ALmighty…”
Exodus 6:2,3 ASV: “God…I am Jehovah…”

“Jehovah/YHWH” is also the “Most High”:
Psalm 83:18 KJV: “Jehovah…art the Most High…”

The Most High, in turn,is identified as “Father”:
Luke 1:31,32 ASV: “…bring forth a son…Son of the Most High…”

The Father, in turn, is identified as Jehovah, whom we learned above is Almighty God:
Isaiah 64:8 ASV: “…Jehovah, thou art our Father…”
Isaia 63:16 ASV “…thou art our Father…O Jehovah, artour Father…”

and this is repeated in the NT for Christians: 2 Corinthians 6:18 ASV “…Father…Lord ALmighty.”

So, you see, these identifying scriptues lead to a conclusion; Almighty GOd is the person of YHWH/Jehovah, who is the Father. Trinitarians state vehemently that Jesus IS NOT the Father, yet they claim he is ALmighty God. But ALmighty God is the Father, according to these scriptures.

Also, as I said in my first post, I would like to see a trinitarian explain to me HOW they can worship three PERSONS, as a persn is an individual being, who are all EQUAL, yet not be breaking the first commandment. No one has explained that to me yet, aside from that I must have “faith” in the “mysteries” of God.
I digress.

: )
Mary

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