Thanks for all the info. I expected that the King James had a more correct reading of that verse. It just seemed weird to me that there would be such an obvious addition still in print. But then again, 1st John 5:7 is still firmly planted in the King James, and that's even worse.

I find this quite interesting. T8's view of this verse troubles me a bit. I don't see how it's grammatically impossible for it to refer to YHWH as the one being pierced. That seems to me to be the most plain understanding of this scripture. It does seem a bit odd that the one speaking would say “me” and then “him”, but take John 17:3 for…[Read more]

Tim's got a point. Tradition isn't always bad, just blindly following false tradition. Every culture is deeply rooted in tradition of every kind. We all follow all kinds of traditions and break many others. We just need to recognize tradition for what it is, just tradition.

Good question, Nick. Most would say another one, some would say Satan, and about twelve million (relatively very few) would say Christ. So the vast majority of the world would vote that Christ has no part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, but we all know that already.

Ha ha. You know it, Nick. Can't get in the door without your card and your secret password 😉

Yep.

Yeah, there are a number of groups that technically fall under the name of “Mormon”. All of them trace their history back to the same roots. The LDS church is by far the largest, and most (but not all) would agree that the others are better classified as splinter groups that peeled off the main church. I don't know all of the names, but they…[Read more]

Those encyclopedias confuse me too, because I was never taught any form of a triune god. I would guess that most Mormons would think you were crazy if you accused them of believing that the three members of the Godhead sometimes act together as one “entity”. But I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Doesn't seem like so many credible outside sources…[Read more]

Sounds fair. Twelve is quite a large amount for something like this. I was thinking it would take way too long when things first changed from three (six total) to twelve (24 total). I definitely look forward to your post.Would you be against someone else continuing in your place, Isaiah? Perhaps WJ would be a good candidate if he's got the…[Read more]

That's cool, no big deal. That just seems to be the nature of these discussions. Besides, this one seems to be going places most of them don't.

Give him a break, Isaiah. Nobody's perfect. He obviously must have been quite busy with other things in his life, and didn't spend hour upon unfair hour researching his response. He did the best he could. I could see saying it's over if he ends up days late for every thread, but this is only the first strike. Lets give him another chance,…[Read more]

I noticed that too, Isaiah. Growing up (before I had really studied this stuff out in detail on my own) what I knew was that there was God the Eternal Father, his Son Jesus Christ, and also the Holy Ghost. So when I first heard the idea of these three being “mashed” together into one person or being without body, parts, or passions for some…[Read more]

Thanks for the replies. That's kind of what I've been expecting to hear from some people, Tim. While I get the concept, I definitely have a hard time understanding why that's the best and most simple way to look at scripture. I'm sure you do to ;-)Anyway, I look forward to more replys. I'd especially like to hear any thoughts on if this verse…[Read more]

Quote (david @ April 08 2007,13:18)And I assume no one will ever answer those questions.I sure hope you're wrong!

Personally, I'd love to hear some other interpretations of those scriptures. The way WIT sees them is pretty staight forward, and I'm sure anyone can understand why he looks at them that way (even if you don't agree). But it'd be awesome to see some different interpretations.I really don't think WIT meant to say that Jesus is weak and powerless.…[Read more]

Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 28 2007,23:57)I AM with the bible and scriptures. Also I forgot to mention that I AM an openminded person.And she's also God! She said it not once, but twice!*don't get mad anyone, I'm just joking around here 😉

Are you saying that believers are more justified in making that jump from knowlege to belief? Because they have prayer and the Holy Ghost helping them along, whereas an atheist's belief that God doesn't exist is completely dependant on knowelge?If that's what you're saying then I get the point and I see the difference. But I still think it's a…[Read more]

I found that interesting as well, Phoenix. I never knew that God called his son by that title. Although, I think most would agree that Christ is the creator. Scripture is pretty clear that God created the worlds through his son.

Ha ha. I'm definitely inclined to agree with you, Nick. I just wanted to point out that Isaiah isn't saying those verses apply only to the Father or only to the Son. His way of thinking asigns them to both, making them both God. Use of common logic would obviously go against this, but it seems to me that logic needs to be thrown out the window…[Read more]