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[JPR]

The “scriptures can not be broken”…

[JPR]

Hi CB, I have read many scriptures supporting the trinitarian view but must say, no one has ever presented so many scriptures in one place, well done!.  Have you noted not one is saying JHWH is Yeshua?  If you want, divide the scriptures into “A” and “B” scriptures where a “A” scripture is a scripture which clearly support the view that YHWH is YESHUA (or at least in your opinion is stating it) and a “B” scripture is based on an assumption and if the assumption is true, it is in supportive of your view. (See example below)  Present us with the “A” scriptures first so we can reply on them. It may make the debate slightly more meaningfull and less tedious. Will you do so?

Example of a B scripture is : Acts 5:3   But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?   5:4   Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

This is a B scripture because the scripture only support the view that the HS and God is the same person if you assume they are.  If the assumption is incorrect, the scripture may have a totally different explanation.

[JPR]

Yes, that's it.

[JPR]

Irene, I am one of the “ridiculous” ones who believes Jesus is Word, and Word was God. I was never lead to believe that Word (from which Jesus originated) existed for ever. Word (or what ever form He existed in before he became flesh)was “begotten” or “generated” or “born”.  Word originated from the Father.  Before God spoke the Word, it must have been “in” God and part of God. This, in my human mind can only mean the “Word was God” (As John also put it) and thus must have existed as a thought in God's mind. (It would think that living word and logos word is both applicable to Jesus but the latter is not relevant to my point here.)
I also have no problem with the dual nature of Jesus after he became flesh.  He was both son of Man and Son of God. He originated from God and he originated from Man.  When we are born of God, we obtained the exact same dual nature than Jesus had, hence he is our oldest brother.  This very nature, gives us hope on internal life.
What do you think?

[JPR]

Sorry I meant to address it to Lightenup.

[JPR]

Quote: [So, do you believe that the Son of God was merely a man and was not living before He was conceived?  That is a big issue on here.]

Shania, I do not find the topic elsewhere, here is my answer to this question. Not sure if I miss something.
The Son of God had been in the world before His coming in the flesh (Heb 1:6) He then had the glory (Joh 17:5) and form of God (Php 2:6) which gave him equality with God. (Php 2:6).  

Yeshua (Not called Yeshua then) was the first born of creation (Col 1:15).  He existed since the beginning of time (1 Jn 1:1)  and He was the beginning of time (Rev 22:1).  He was created in the first instance as Wisdom (Prov 8:22).   He reflected the Father’s image as first born of the creation (Col 1:15).  After his birth, He was instrumental in the rest of creation (Heb 1:2). He was propably part of the “us” who created man (Gen 1:26) and the Angel who spoke to Moses from the burning bush (Ex 3:2).  He was the “arm” of God in Isa 53:1 and He was the Living Word (Acts 7:38) of God to Israel. (Rom 3:2)  

When God brought His first born for the second time into the world, (Heb 1:6) He changed form to that of a servant (Php 2:6) and was called Yeshua. (Matt 1:21)

[JPR]

Hi all, what I got out of that parrable is based on two assumptions:
1.Reducing debt was not contrary to the job description of the steward at the time. My impression came from old testament scripture on the concept of “redemption” (Stongs number: H1350 gaw-al גּאל gâ'al) It is confirmed by the fact that the master in the story, as well as Christ, commended the steward.
2.Money (Mamon) is an “unfair” system; by that I believe Christ meant a system based on merit instead of grace. Money reflects the “root of all evil” and is based on conditional earning whilst Christ’ message is founded in the principle of giving from love. (Undeservedly)
Therefor my message from Chist on this parable was:
1.By writing off debt (being faithfull with unrighteous mammon), He will entrust me with forgiving of sin. (He will entrust me with writing off sin which ≈ true riches) I duly wrote off all debt owed to me from that point onwards and hasn’t “handed any debtors over” for debt collection since receiving this message from my Master.
2.I must be quick to add; I don’t think Christians in the corporate world of today, should write of their masters debt now as this is not part of modern day policies and it would clash with other Godly instructions e.g. obeying of your masters.

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Thanks Ligthenup, you mind if I answer you on the trinity page, in a day or two.

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I would tend to agree. Ta

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Hi all, thanks, for your input. “Listen” to my testimony;

Jesus once said to me: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.” I was also lead to believe that: “If I believe Moses, I will also believe Jesus: for he wrote of Jesus, but if I not believe his writings, how shall I believe Jesus’ words?” I learned that if “I love God, I will obey His commandments.” His word will never pass and never ages. I once asked Him if the Jews had any advantage to us. He said: “Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God” (=Jesus). The Word in 2 Co 3:15 were explained to me as follows: But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord (true repentance), the vail shall be taken away”. Act 7:38: “This is he (Moses) that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:” I was born again through “living Word”

As I understand things: Christ has been given all authority, He is Lord over the Sabbath (the rest). You can only enter into true rest through obedience to Him. He is Lord of all. Allow Him to interact with you in such a way, that through faith, whatever He has to say to you, you are able to take it. Tradition renders the Word of God (Jesus) powerless. History renders the Word of God powerless. Christians often quote history as more authoritative than the Word of God. Don’t allow worldly wisdom to interfere with your interaction with Him. Become like a child and eat everything that comes from the mouth of God as we will live from “every word” that comes from God’s mouth.

Col 2:14: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
The body of Christ was flesh (human) originating from (John 1:1) and obedient (Phil 2:8) to God till death. His body therefore was a living testimony to the fact that Word in flesh can overcome the world. This very fact, became our biggest threat because if one could do it, all that “are born of God”, can do it. (He that is born of God, can’t sin) His living body therefore became the biggest threat of our internal existence. To put it differently; His body is “written proof” that Word in flesh can be obedient to ordinances. As His body (handwriting of ordinances) therefore became our biggest threat, God in His wisdom, made that body sin, killing it, and by doing so, removed the final threat to our internal existence. Brothers, this scripture does not mean the law was nailed to the cross, it means the accusation by Christ human body, was nailed to the cross. The Law of God is like a headmaster, directing you to Jesus; it is Good, holy and just. (Rom 7:12 wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.)

One Word on the Law and the curse of the Law:
If you are born of flesh, you are flesh and if you are born of Spirit, you are spirit. Flesh, is under the curse of any law because it has the satanic nature which rebels against law/word. The law of God is the ultimate burden and curse to human flesh. The only way of escaping this curse and burden is to die (If you are married to man, you will remain married until he dies, only then are you free to belong to someone else) The flesh therefore has to die with Christ to escape the curse. Once born of the Spirit, you now become partakers of a Godly nature, (2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.) and hence, free to live in harmony with the Law because you and the law are both now spirit and has the same “nature”. That is why the born again person, (being born of spirit) can now obey the law and receive the law on his heart as he has been given the same Godly nature. (This is the essence of new covenant life) We do not escape the law by incorrectly dividing it into applicable and non applicable. Neither do we escape the law by dividing it into “mosaic”, “moral” and “religious” laws. Those are all man-made concepts. The only way of escaping the curse of the law is to die with Christ and to live from “every word from God’s mouth”; including those he gave through Moses.

May God bless you all .

[JPR]

I have two answers:
1. The “new testament” teaches tithing in the following scriptures. Hebrews 7:8 and in Mat 23:23.
2. The other answer: In contrast to the conditions of the old covenant, those of the new agreement between God and his people (The new covenant or new testament) are nowhere defined. Instead God declared they should be concealed amongst his people. (Isa 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.) He placed the “Word of the Old Covenant” in the Arc of the Covenant; this is a sign pointing to the “laws of the new covenant on the hearts of his people. As the high priest only could access the holiest of holy places, so can Jesus (our new High priest) access and transcribe the law on our hearts. They are placed on our hearts by Him and are there for no one else to judge, but Him. The new “testament” books are thus not the books defining the conditions for the new covenant; those are to be find right through the bible. The division between “Old” and “new” in our bibles are made by man, not by God.
To conclude; we receive “living word” on our hearts. By definition this is the New Covenant. (Heb 8 and 10) The contents of the word are something the Author decides, not us. We have the responsibility to abide in it. As disciples we should encourage others to take it up with the Author, as the more Word, the more Truth, the more Truth, the more freedom. Tithing has brought financial freedom to me. It will do so for everyone as Our Father has clearly promised it in Malachi.

[JPR]

I used to worship the God as presented to me by the Protestants. This God was a creation of my own mind and I don't want to blame any church or denomination for that false God.  Fact of the matter is, I met the real God through His Son and I don't worship that God any longer. I was led “out of her” but recently made the mistake of partaking in the services of a charismatic group.  Despite the voice of my Master “not to go back”, I justified my actions by reasoning that I am not “part of them”, just attending because I “may make a difference”. I did not take part in the worship (Just stood there with my mouth full of teeth – as the saying goes). They do not even know that I worship a different God yet – but I already regret my actions.
Strange how the truth seems to bring that separation and how the gap grows bigger and bigger.  (First being born again, then baptism, then the law on your heart, then ….  – you realize the God is also different) Makes me all think of the wheat and the tares; difficult to know the differences in the beginning but as one matures, so does the differences.

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Life is in the blood. This life however, is God-independent life. (Life without God) God never intended it to be like that. The paradise encounter was responsible for blood-life, and for it to become independent of God. God's solution was/is sacrifice.  E.g.  God is “saying”; I want blood to pay the price for the ultimate sin, which is live independent of Me.  Someone therefore (Christ) had to sacrifice his blood in payment for mankind’s blood (which symbolises life without God) As born-again believers, we withhold ourselves from blood (or strangled animals who still has blood in their meat) as a “gesture” (I don't like this word here) to God that we do not associate ourselves with life independent of Him any longer.

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The Word of God clearly says ; “tith”.  What Christ is also saying is that He has redeemed us from the curse of the law which implies that transgression of God's Law is not punished by God until Christ's return. (Rather clumpsy put)  Having died with Christ, (as far as the old nature is concerned) and in the process of being resurrected by God through the baptism and regeneration (new nature), Gods Word can now take affect (my own expression) or be fulfilled (God's expression) in those who do not live according the flesh, but according to the Spirit. The new Covenant is the process but which God puts his laws (including the tithing) on our hearts.  Open your heart for the truth as the same will set you free.
Love

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