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[Dunno]

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 22 2012,07:54)

Hi Dunno, Are you a “JW”? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi! 'Ed J'
No, I'm not a JW.
All the same, you have to be the most rude an' crude Christian that I've met in a very long time … actually, your two questions thus far to me give the appearance of you being mentally/spiritually ill … driven my pious accusatory darkness.
So, I'll just politely leave this Forum now.
I wish I could say it was nice meeting everyone in here … but between the insults and accusations, there wasn't sufficient time to meet anyone of consequence.

[Dunno]

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 22 2012,03:47)

Hi Dunno, welcome to H-net! Do you not know that 'the false prophet' is Muhammad?  (Link) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi! 'Ed J'

Thanks for your welcome, 'Ed J'.
Did you know that the 'false prophet' is NOT Muhammad?

Antichrist is the man of sin; he is iniquity personified, as Jesus is the incarnation of righteousness.

The Pharisees had to admit about Jesus: “This man performs many signs”, (John 11:47). But the Lord also predicted that many false Christs and false prophets would arise, doing great signs and miracles, by which they would, if this were possible, lead astray the elect, (Matt 24:24).

The nature of the kingdom of Antichrist will be completely different from all the kingdoms that have ever been on earth. “As for the fourth Beast, there shall be a fourth kingdom on earth, which shall be different from all the kingdoms”, (Daniel 7:23). It derives its strength and power from a direct connection with the Kingdom of Darkness.

It can be said of the Sons of God in the endtimes that the army of the enemy is completely subjected to them. But the Dragon puts this same army under the high command of Antichrist and his followers. For he sits down in the temple of God, that is in man, to proclaim himself to be god. At his command the demons arise and manifest themselves in the visible world.

“Making fire come down from heaven” means that the spirits from the invisible world manifest themselves at his orders. Even the die-hard materialists will then have to admit that these are supernatural forces.

By this occult power the Beast will also subject the world. Those, however, who dare to resist antichrist will be surrendered to destructive powers who destroy or damage body, soul, and spirit. Those who do not have fellowship with the Holy Spirit or possess the powers of the coming age all fall victim to the unleashed supernatural forces.

Some Bible interpreters differentiate between Antichrist and the False Prophet. They think they are two distinct and separate persons. The spirit of Antichrist, however, is the spirit of the False Prophet and therefore Antichrist is the False Prophet.

He is the personified spirit of error mentioned in 1John 4:6, just as the Spirit of truth is personified in Christ. The masses are led astray by the deceitful wonders and signs. This temptation has its climax in the formation of an image for the Beast from the Bottomless Pit.

On the ruins of Babylon, (the apostate church), an assembly arises which has severed all contact with God and his Son. “Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son”, (1John 2:22).

Thus we see that the endtimes produces a faithful assembly which bears the image of the Son, but also the anti-Christian unfaithful assembly which bears the image of the Antichrist. It says clearly that this church is based on its supernatural connection with the Kingdom of Darkness by the Beast which had the wound of the sword.

[Dunno]

Quote (limjunus @ Sep. 20 2012,15:03)

Revelation 16:13-14 NKJV “And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.” Is there any commentaries from the contributors of Heaven-Net? The thread is open to all.

The Dragon, the Beast, and the False Prophet are the imitators of the Father, the Holy Spirit and the Son. The Dragon is the devil, the father of lies. The Beast is the spirit of Antichrist, to whom the Dragon gave all his power and strength. The False Prophet is Antichrist. As Christ is the True Prophet, so Antichrist is the prophet of lies and error. From the mouth of the Dragon, the Beast. and Antichrist issue three unclean spirits. John saw them as slimy, repulsive, unclean frogs. They come from their mouths to indicate horrible, false doctrines, worse than have ever been preached or believed on earth. The Dragon himself co-operates by means of signs and miracles; he perplexes the mighty in the spiritual, political, and cultural world and makes them docile. In 2Thessalonians 2:11-12 the apostle said about this: “Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness”. Thus the kings of the whole world are enticed to assemble and to bring together their forces for the final battle in the heavenly places.

A shadow of the activity of these spirits of falsehood is related in 1Kings 22:19-23, where Ahab is enticed by a deceitful spirit to enter into battle in order to be killed at Ramoth-gilead. The timing of the final battle, however, is not decided by the Dragon and his companions; this day has been determined by God Almighty!

[Dunno]

Quote (Woutlaw @ July 07 2006,21:02)

I am after God's truth and his truth only. If “praying Jesus into your heart” is scriptural, then amen, I will gladly accept this and admit my error.

Hi! WL

I do not believe that the phrase “accept Jesus into your heart” originated with my particular Post.

I do believe the particular phrase may have been inadvertently framed by Nick in his attempt to question what was originally stated by myself as merely, “accepting Jesus”.

Evidently, Nick's Doctrinal-Lie-Detector tilted a bit with my choice of words.

My apologies.

[Dunno]

Quote (Woutlaw @ July 07 2006,21:00)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2006,01:41) Hi dunno, So where is “accepting Jesus ” written in the Word?  Does it mean believe? Does it save someone without repentance? Is this a new way? Your words “When a person accepts Jesus, something happens on the part of God. Abraham put his faith on those who were going to be born into the world. The expectation of a born again person is that he has become a child of God. Everything which now follows is represented and symbolised in baptism.” amen Nick, And that's the thing I keep hanging up on is the “accepting Christ into your heart” or “praying Jesus into your heart” thing. I just don't see this in scripture. Can any of you guys give me some scriptures to validate this practice? seriously, i'm not being sarcastic in any sense !!!!

Hi!

I apologize for failing to detect the lawyers and scribes from among us … those who would set aside the fundamental truth intended because of the lack of refined words.

When I mentioned the phrase, “accept Jesus” … anyone sincerely reading it would have known that the word “accept” intrinsically means to accept ALL the attributes and characteristics and teachings of Jesus … by accepting these as true, it follows that we would obey them as well.

In the same way, we hear many saying in these days, “Lord I give you the keys to my heart”.
Does anyone actually think that Jesus wants or even needs such keys? And, even if He did, what is Jesus to do with them? Does anyone think that Jesus does anything else but “stand at the door and knock”?

I spend alot of my time with Christians and those who sincerely desire after the Gospel too. But never in my wildest imaginings have I ever had anyone interrupt my thought with such a nit-picking question as what was presented here.

[Dunno]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2006,20:41)

Hi dunno, So where is “accepting Jesus ” written in the Word?  Does it mean believe? Does it save someone without repentance? Is this a new way? Your words “When a person accepts Jesus, something happens on the part of God. Abraham put his faith on those who were going to be born into the world. The expectation of a born again person is that he has become a child of God. Everything which now follows is represented and symbolised in baptism.”

Hi! Nick

Here's a profitable thought:

Why don't you make some attempt to answer your own questions here instead of asking others to answer them for you?

That way some of us might come to understand what your own position is on matters and perhaps be more inclined to join the discussion.

The way it is now with all your many suspicious and accusatory questions, it is not much of a discussion … it is more an interrogation.

I am beginning to suspect that you are finding some deviant joy by insisting that everyone plug into your Doctrinal-Lie-Detector by answering your questions after they Post something.

[Dunno]

Quote (t8 @ July 05 2006,02:08)

True Woutlaw, Who are we to question God. But God gaves us scripture and he wants us to question and seek in order to learn. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't see anyone here saying that we shouldn't be baptised. But I have also said myself that there is no scripture that says 'no baptism, no salvation'. Instead the closest I can see to 'no baptism, no salvation' is Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. This verse points out baptism, but then says that it is non-belief that condems us. It actually doesn't say non-baptism. For that reason I will not assume more than scripture has revealed. I know this: That we are to be baptised into Christ and we will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. That is written. If I preach the gospel to someone and they accept the good news and are willing to repent, I would baptise them ASAP in water in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Then they should receive the promised gift of the Holy Spirit. If they were not willing to be baptised, then I would assume that they either do not believe, are not willing to repent, or are not willing to be obedient or pay any kind of price for the Kingdom. Such a person is unworthy and rejects the gospel. But if that person wanted to be baptised into our Messiah and then he was shot and killed before that happened, I personally wouldn't be thinking to myself, “if only I had baptised him earlier, now he is going to burn in hell”. I hope that no one teaches that. All I am saying is that it is dangerous to go outside scripture even if it is to be absolute about something. Yes obey the commandments and teach using scripture. But making absolute statements from inference or example can be dangerous as you are really guessing by observing a pattern in the natural/physical from what you can see.   Sure if scripture said “No baptism, no salvation” then I would repeat and teach that. I couldn't argue with that if that is what was written. The example we see in scripture is that all who were obedient to the message were baptised in water, even the ones who received the Spirit first. That example is one that I follow and teach. But I do not see anywhere in scripture an apostle, prophet, teacher, preacher, or evangelist who said “no baptism, no salvation”. (I am not sure if this is what you are saying Woutlaw?) But if it was true that no baptism meant no salvation under any circumstances, then the people who received the Spirit of God first and then were baptised in water later (as recorded in the NT) would have been condemned even having the Spirit of God inside them, up until they were baptised in water. I cannot currently accept the notion that the Spirit of God dwelt inside people who were not saved, even if it was only for days. Of course I see clearly that it says “whoever believes not, is condemned”. So I can confidently say that those who hear the gospel and believe not, are condemned. But I can say this because it is taught not by inference, but clearly. Of course I think that such a person is free to believe at another time and hopefully this would be the case.   Bless you.

Hi! T8

I have read many of your Posts and I would just like to say something about your statement: “Maybe I am wrong, but I don't see anyone here saying that we shouldn't be baptised. But I have also said myself that there is no scripture that says 'no baptism, no salvation'.”

Without getting into it all, I continue having the priviledge of ministering to to those imprisoned in what is known as the 'SHU' (Special Handling Unit). These persons are being detained for many years and only allowed out of their 'isolation' cells for 30 minutes a day. Neither do they have any socialization schedule, eg: attending a Chapel Service.

The question of 'water baptism' from these imprisoned individuals who have accepted the Gospel of Jesus has been asked of me on several occasions.

Water Baptism is an outward sign of an inward work … a visible testimony of an invisible reality.

What am I to advise these imprisoned individuals who are unable to attend a proper water baptism?
I simply tell them to confess with their mouth that which they are unable to participate due to their isolated confinement.

Quite simply, Water Baptism is a symbol of the circumcision of the heart.

Circumcision was the sign of the Old Covenant which God established with Abraham and his natural descendants. “This is my covenant which you shall keep between me and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised. You shall be circumcised on the flesh of your foreskin and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you”, (Gen 17:10-11). Abraham was already a believer before he was circumcised. On the grounds of that faith he had also received the gift of righteousness. He had entered the promised land because of his faith in God, even though he entered it as a stranger.

When Abraham left Ur of the Chaldees behind, he had already received the promise that in him “all the generations of the earth would be blessed”, (Gen 12:3). He had received the promise that he would be an heir of the world (Rom 4.13). The greatest which the world had to give would spring from him, namely Christ and those who are in Christ.

Even if Abraham had had a great number of children, this would in no way have been a guarantee that his descendants would be the rulers of the world, and that they would become as numerous as the sand of the sea. His faith was proved and tested even more severely because he had not a single child.

When on the advice of his wife Sarah he took the slave Hagar as his wife, his action was not contrary to his belief in the promise. The Lord had to make clear to him later, however, that the promise was not for the son of his maidservant but for the son of the free woman. Circumcision was a visible sign of something that Abraham would receive through faith and of which only a small beginning had as yet manifested itself in his life.

Abraham had himself circumcised with his son Ishmael and more than three hundred members of his household. But the son of the promise had not yet arrived. The slaves, and those who were born in the house of their master, would later wear the sign of circumcision as the people of Israel.

This was not in itself a sign of belief but an indication that a man belonged to the natural offspring of Abraham. For Abraham himself, however, it was a sign of the righteousness of faith (Rom 4.11). This explains how a circumcised people did not enter into the promised land because of unbelief, but an uncircumcised people under Joshua did enter in. A circumcised nation perished in the wilderness because they did not believe God or put their trust in Him (Hebr 3:19).

Circumcision was an external, hidden sign. It was not possible to tell from a man's face whether he belonged to the people of God. This hidden sign was associated with the procreation of natural life.

Those who now substitute infant baptism for circumcision accept again the natural line of the generations. Baptism then is a matter of natural and temporary life. Faith cannot be required or expected from an infant who is to be baptized. The words of the apostle about circumcision apply equally well to the sprinkled infant: “If you receive circumcision Christ will be of no advantage to you” (Gal 5:2).
For this reason the traditional cultural churches never exceed the spiritual standards of the old Israel. They remain on the same level and never become spiritual people.

Those who in the New Covenant are called “the seed of Abraham” are the people who believe in the promises of God as he did; that is, in the 'better promises' upon which the new covenant is based (Heb 6:8). The first Covenant had a sign in the flesh and it was a covenant for the natural descendants. In the New Covenant there is a sign in the heart and a covenant in the spirit, that is, in the invisible world. This covenant is concerned with the inner man; with his understanding and with his heart. “This is the covenant that I will make with the (spiritual) house of Israel after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their minds and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people”, (Heb 8:10).

The New Covenant is in no way a continuation of the Old Covenant but it runs parallel to it on a higher plane. These Covenants are like two roads, one of which goes over the earth and the other through the heavens. In the Old Covenant everything was attuned to the earth and the world of the senses. In the better Covenant which rests on better promises everything is attuned to heaven and founded in the spiritual world.

There was an earthly tabernacle in the Old Covenant, and there is a heavenly, true tabernacle in the New Covenant (Heb 8:2). Then there were earthly priests, now there is a heavenly priesthood (1Peter 2:9). There was an earthly high priest, now there is a heavenly High Priest (Heb 8:1). There was a shadowy law of Sinai, now there is a law of the Spirit, 'for when there is a change in the priesthood there is necessarily a change in the law as well' (Rom 8:2 & Heb 7:12).

The Old Covenant was made with the natural people of Israel, and the New Covenant with the spiritual Israel of God. Paul boasted in this regard not in the scar which he had on his body as a natural son of Abraham, but upon the mark of Jesus which had come about by the circumcision of the heart (Gal 6:15-17).

After He had finished the first creation, God rested from all His works and to commemorate this, the people of the Old Covenant had their earthly sabbaths. In the New Covenant God rested from all his works by putting the whole plan of salvation into the hands of his Son. When we put our faith in the Son, we will rest from our exertions all the days of our lives, like God has done from his. “There remains a sabbath rest for the people of God; for whoever enters God's rest also ceases from his labours as God did from his” (Heb 4:9-10).

The Old Covenant had a circumcision made by hands, which left an outward mark on the body. The New Covenant has a circumcision which is not made with hands. “In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ; and you were buried with him in baptism”, (Col 2:11-12). The circumcision of Christ, in contrast to that of Moses, (read John 7:22), is the manner in which the Christian is circumcised by the Holy Spirit.

The circumcision of the heart therefore is what has taken the place of the Old Covenant circumcision; and not the baptism.

The circumcision of the heart is part of the process of the new birth. Baptism is the testimony of the born again person. His baptism symbolises that which has taken place in the invisible world, that which he has received in faith.

Circumcision in the Old Covenant was only for male descendants, for “by the will of man” children were conceived (Gen 17:10 & John 1:13). The Old Covenant applied only to the natural offspring. The New Covenant counts only with the spiritual man and knows no distinction between man and woman (Gal 3:28). The circumcision of the heart and the testimony to this in baptism, is for all children of God without distinction of sex. “They were baptized, both men and women”, (Acts 8:12).

What is the parallel between the circumcision of the Old Covenant and the circumcision of the heart in the new? Faith on Abraham's part preceded circumcision. The first thing a person must do to be included in the New Covenant is to repent and put his faith in the promises of God. What do these promises say? The answer is: “But to all who received him, who believed on his name, he gave power to become the children of God”, (John 1:12).

When a person accepts Jesus, something happens on the part of God. Abraham put his faith on those who were going to be born into the world. The expectation of a born again person is that he has become a child of God. Everything which now follows is represented and symbolised in baptism.

Through the power of the life-giving Spirit a New Creation is born out of the old, dead man. The fresh new life frees itself from the old. The new man has been born and he must be made free from the old life. In the same way that the umbilical cord, joining together mother and child, has to be severed after a natural birth, the old man is severed from the new by a circumcision which takes place without hands. The new man is now separated from the old.

This is a clear sign in the spiritual world that a man has become a child of God. He wears the mark: 'Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity' (2 Tim 2:19).

By virtue of the circumcision of the heart, the reborn man is freed from his old life and receives the power to live in newness of life. This is the circumcision of Christ, for “if the Son makes you free you will be free indeed” (John 8:36). This is the first beginning, but the new man has become a citizen of the Kingdom of God and his name is recorded there.

Baptism symbolises the fact that this circumcision has taken place. The old life has been left behind in the water, buried as an afterbirth. The new man emerges as a child of God, and in his heart he wears the 'hidden' sign of the covenant: circumcision. His new heart is an indication that Jesus has given him eternal life. “Real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal”, (Rom 2:29). It is a circumcision after the law of the Spirit and not after the law of Sinai. “For we are the true circumcision, who worship God in Spirit and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh”, (Phil 3:3).

The circumcision of the heart belongs to the process of spiritual birth. The prophet said to those who were born under the Old Covenant: “And as for your birth, on the day you were born your umbilical cord was not cut”, (Ez 16:4). They were not separated from the old man.

After the circumcision and resurrection to new life, a person has not simply become a child of God but he is also included in the body of Christ, that is the church. “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body” (1Cor 12:13). For this reason also we have the expression: “the circumcision of Christ”. The result of this circumcision is that the new man, like a living cell, takes up his place in the mystical body of Christ. Also in the New Covenant the seed of Abraham is circumcised. This seed is Christ, and all those who are in Christ, (Gal 3:16-29).

Through this circumcision of the heart a separation takes place between the old and the new man. The old man had contact with the powers of darkness, which were at work in him (Eph 2:2). The new man is born as a result of the contact between the Spirit of God and the spirit of man. Now we can say: “Abba, Father”.

The eternal judgment, the absolute separation between good and evil, begins to take place here in a human life. Abraham believed that he would be the heir of the world (Rom 4:13). The spiritual circumcision is the sign of the promise of being a child of God. We are heirs in the spiritual world, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ (Rom 8:17). This is a matter of faith, even though we only see the early beginnings.

We now begin to see the rich and glorious significan
ce of baptism. There is more in it than in the baptism of repentance which John preached. His baptism served to prepare a natural generation for the full salvation which was to be revealed, and that it could not be given to children.

The New Testament baptism, which symbolises the separation of the old man from the new, is certainly not meant for children. By saying that baptism replaces the Old Testament circumcision, man has eliminated the circumcision of the heart and left those who are thus baptized outside the freedom of the Kingdom of God.

The circumcision of the heart 'brands' a person as a child of God. In the secrecy of the water immersion, the mystery of the circumcision of the heart is symbolised. Everyone, who has experienced in the unseen world the process of repentance, faith in God, new birth, and circumcision of the heart, should obey the call of God to be baptized by immersion in the visible world, so that he can in this way give a testimony of the things which have happened to him.

We read in John 3:1-2 about the conversation which Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews, had with Jesus one night. According to this rabbi it was universally accepted that Jesus had a commission from God, “for no one can do these works unless God is with him”. Signs and wonders do not originate in the visible, but in the invisible world. When they accompany the believers, it is a sign that the Kingdom of God has come.

When Jesus appeared on the scene, the way into this Kingdom was opened. The powers of the age to come (the new creation) were revealed. He who would follow Jesus must become a citizen of the Kingdom of heaven. The New Covenant connects in no way with the Old. In the same way that heaven is not in any manner an extension of the earth, so too the New Covenant is in no way a continuation of the Old.

Worshippers at the synagogue of Capernaum were astonished when they were confronted with Jesus “so that they questioned among themselves saying: 'What is this? A new teaching! with authority he commands even the unclean spirits and they obey him” (Mark 1:27).

The solution to every human problem and need lies in the preaching of the invisible Kingdom of God: redemption, deliverance, healing and complete restoration. For anyone who persists with the Old Covenant the saying holds true: “Behold you scoffers and wonder and perish; for I do a deed in your days, a deed you will never believe if one declares it to you” (Acts 13:41).

Whoever follows Jesus must make a radical break with the old ways. He has to take the exalted way, the one in the invisible world (Is 35:8). The Old Covenant was only a shadow of the things to come. Jesus showed Nicodemus this completely new heavenly way with the words: “Truly, truly, I say to you unless one is born anew he cannot see the Kingdom of God”, (John 3:3).

When a person turns away from his old way and when he repents and turns to God, God's answer to his problem is to give him the gift of new life. From the union of man's spirit and God's Spirit the new man is born. This process of the new birth means that a man shares in heaven's reality. His name is added to the list of citizens of the Kingdom of heaven, of the new Jerusalem. Only from this position as child of God can the victory over the kingdom of darkness be achieved, (the kingdom which manifests itself in mankind through sin, sickness and death).

The re-born man has no longer a battle on earth, as was the case in the believers of the Old Covenant, he has his battle in the heavenly places (Job 7:1 & Eph 6:12).

Born again man has the invisible God as his Father. He is now born “not of perishable seed but of imperishable through the living and abiding word of God”, (1Peter 1:23). This imperishable seed which comes from the Father is the Word. By the Word the faith of man is fixed upon God, for faith comes by hearing.

In new birth, man's spirit which once was dead, becomes alive. He receives a renewed spirit. God could have directly created a new race of men who would have together made up a New Creation, but this He did not do. God created the New Creation out of the first creation.

Jesus said to Nicodemus: “Unless a man is born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God”, (John 3:5). Water is an element of the earth; out of it the first Creation was born. “An earth formed out of water and by means of water”, (2Peter 3:5 & Gen 1:2). Natural man, during the time he is in his mother's womb, is also surrounded by water.

In the first Creation, the visible is dominant and in the second the invisible. First of all man has to be born in the natural way and develop and then he can be born in the supernatural way. “But it is not the spiritual which is first but the physical, and then the spiritual”, (1Cor 15:46). The teaching of the assumed new birth, which has as a consequence that a child can be born again before it is born in the natural way, is therefore unbiblical. “Just as we have born the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven”, (1Cor 15:49). By virtue of the new birth we are able to become conformed to the image of the Son, (Rom 8:29).

We see that the natural birth takes place out of water. “That which is born of the flesh is flesh”. New birth takes place out of the Spirit. “That which is born of the Spirit is spirit”, (John 3:6). The last Adam became “a life-giving Spirit” (1Cor 15:45).

The expression 'born again' can also be translated as “born from above”. This can be found in John 3:31 and 19:11: “He who is from above is above all”. “If this was not given you from above”. The word above refers to the invisible world, namely the Kingdom of God. Being born from above therefore signifies a birth in the spiritual world. By virtue of this birth a person sees the things of the Kingdom of heaven with spiritual eyes. He begins to understand how this works, receives insight into the laws of the Spirit and is renewed by invisible spiritual power.

The old creation is born out of the flesh. Mention is made of the will of the flesh, the will of man -therefore of the natural source. As distinct from this it is said of the new birth that they are born of God (John 1:13). The idea of the will of God and His plan is here brought into play.

Nicodemus knew nothing of this spiritual world, in the same way as so many in our own days know nothing of a participation in the heavenly calling (Heb 3:1). The concept this Jewish man had of the new birth, descended as he was from Abraham in the natural sense, was of 're-entering his mother's womb and being born once more', into the natural world; (John 3:4): another natural birth.

The new creation is invisible to the eyes of natural man. It is like the wind: “The wind blows where it wills and you hear the sound of it but you do not know whence it comes and whither it goes, so is it with everyone who is born of the Spirit”, (John 3:8). The new creation is like the source of the wind, it exists in a hidden manner in the inner man. Through the testimony of the new man we hear the sound of the Spirit. People know his direction and experience his power in the same way as the wind but they do not know precisely where all this is leading: “Beloved we are God's children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be : .. “, (1John 3:2). The final goal that the child of God has in God's plan is not yet made known.

When at the time of the new birth the Spirit is made alive, the soul is also cleansed and receives new life. The person receives a new heart. The soul-life is the invisible, natural life. The 'heart' forms part of the soul-life; it is an image of man's emotional life (love and hate, happiness and grief), and also of his will and mind. The soul becomes cleansed because the blood of Jesus takes away guilt and afterwards renews heart and mind.

Now that the spirit is united with God, new life is transmitted to the soul as well. The treasur
e of wrath which burdens the soul of the sinner is taken away and he can now begin to lay up treasures in heaven (Rom 2:5 & Matt 6:20). In this way those who have been born again show themselves in the visible world as changed people. They manifest their changed lives by carrying out acts of righteousness. “You may be sure that everyone who does right is born of Him”. “No one born of God commits sin”. “For whatever is born of God overcomes the world”, (1John 2:29; 3:9 & 5:4).

In Titus 3:5 it says that God “saved us in virtue of his own mercy by the washing of regeneration”. Symbolised in baptism we have both the spiritual and the natural birth. When a believer is baptized he testifies by his act that he once lived in the natural world. The water which surrounds him is a symbol of this fact. But then he rises up out of the water. He is removed out of darkness into light, out of the kingdom of satan to God, from being a servant of sin he becomes a child of God. In Ephesians 5:25 & 26 we have: “even as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her that He might sanctify her having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word”.

He who is baptized testifies that he has become a new man. The scripture is true for him which says: “You are made clean by the word which I have spoken to you”, (John 15:3). The Lord says: “You are now clean, you are now holy, you are now righteous, you are now an heir of God and a fellow heir with Christ. You are a king and a priest you are my son and my possession”. The righteous man lives by faith in these promises of God.

So, to those prisoners whom I minister to, I tell them that it is not the ceremony that is important. Neither is it the visible things which occur. Rather, the baptism in water is simply an outward sign where man testifies of the things which happened to him in the invisible world. The old has passed away, the new has come. I tell them that Baptism in water is a testimony before God and the angels, and before men in the visible world, of the things that happened to a person in the unseen world. The bible says: “He who believes and is baptized will be saved”.

These isolated prisoners become baptized by the confession of their mouths and without water.

[Dunno]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2006,17:41)

Hi dunno, I may be unusually stupid but if that is the case and I misconstrue things then perhaps that may be an advantage to others like me who are not as bright as yourself? Perhaps you may assume that we are and miss explaining a liitle more patiently so we can all understand? Yes God wants all to be saved. All can be saved by the substitutionary death of Jesus. But you did not say that or explain that not all will be saved and could leave the impression you have now explained was false. Thank you on behalf of myself and other simple and ignorant children of God.

Hi! Nick

I have never thought for a moment that you (nor anyone else) was, as you say: “unusually stupid”. Neither have I ever hinted at such a thing.

I have also never intended to lend the impression that I am somehow overly “bright”. While it may be true that my writing skills might be a little above average, this is only because I have been the Managing Editor of a Christian periodical for many years and therefore my vocabulary has become more practiced than nomal.

I am just like everyone else who visits this Forum. No better and no worse.

Yes, it is true that I have opinions and that I oftentimes can express them quite strongly. But this does not mean to say that I am fossilized in some doctrinal posture which might cause me to be deaf to what the Spirit of God is saying to His people in this day and hour. After all, the essential reason I visit here is to share in the thoughtworld of others and perhaps be blessed by their treasures.

I have read many Posts here and have reached far back to the archives too in an attempt to gather those things which seem to be important to the visitors here. I have learned alot from this reading and enjoyed it very much.

Anyways, just to clear the air with you:

I am not a universalist.
I am not a Trinitarian.
I do not subscribe to what is known as 'New Age'.

I am however a sincere and genuine Christian who follows after the Gospel of Jesus (aka: Gospel of the Kingdom [Matt 4:23;Matt 9:35;Matt 24:14]).

I suppose the easiest way of answering the question, “What do I believe?” is best answered by TPI:

-'Many people have asked of us, “Where is your 'Statement of Beliefs?”. The answer is simply: We choose to not have one!
We choose not to construct doctrinal gates and dogmatic fences on the path of those seeking the gifts and promises of our Lord. Rather, we seek to pronounce the faith of God for everyone who should visit us here.

What is Faith?

Faith is the ability of one's spirit through which he can take hold of issues that are not perceived by the senses. Faith becomes active when one hears or reads something. The more a person hears and reads, the more things he can believe in. Faith always connects itself to the word which is an expression of a thought.

Two Opposing Faiths

We can say that God has great faith in Himself and in His creation. He has the absolute certainty that what He does is good and what He intends shall come about.

The negative and oppressing powers have faith too. But not towards God's plan. They believe in themselves and in their evil works of destruction and death. They believe most emphatically that nothing good will become of man. They do not trust in man at all, but have completely written him off as future ruler and king over the works of God's hand.

For this reason, there is a tremendous battle of faith concerning man between God and the powers of darkness. In this battle, it is spirit against spirit and positive faith against negative faith. The powers of darkness have for ages been a heel biter. They make man's path of development difficult and stagnant at times. It seems that the enemy is gaining, but ultimately the faith God has in man will triumph. God favors man, and God believes in man.

The Faith of Jesus

Jesus took upon Himself the faith of God towards His creation too. Throughout the Scriptures we see that Jesus thought and spoke like His heavenly Father. Jesus received everything from God so as to be one with Him, and therefore He acquired His full wisdom, power, and His faith. He is even called the Author and Perfecter of faith. That is why He is also called “the Word of God”, because He gave expression to God's thoughts.

Because of His faith in the ultimate intentions of God towards man, Jesus gave Himself as a ransom for all people, of all places and all times, and this ransom consisted of His perfect life.

—————————–
We at TPI want never to lose the faith of God in man; particularly, not in any individual who may visit our WebSite.

We don't wish to be found saying that nothing will become of that woman, man or child, because we want to confess the faith of God. All things are possible for those who keep the faith of Jesus and who follow after His triumphant Gospel of the Kingdom.

Nor do we wish to presuppose that someone must find the wonderful plans and purposes of God for their lives under the pressure of structured doctrines. God speaks to every man's heart as an individual and in their particular circumstance.

Yet, it remains true that we strive to preach the triumphant gospel of Jesus Christ and we hold out the faith of God towards all who visit us here and believe that those who seek after Jesus will be wonderfully rewarded.-'

[Dunno]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2006,14:57)

Quote (Dunno @ July 07 2006,12:15) Your words “It is vital that every human being personally experiences the fullness of the atonement. To this end one has to go through an inner 'metamorphosis' or transformation like the caterpillar that changes into a butterfly. A caterpillar comes out of the egg of the butterfly. For his nourishment and his life span the caterpillar depends on the vegetation on the ground. She is 'from below', that is, tied to the earth. A butterfly, however, can move freely around, not only in the air, but also on moments she uses the vegetation on the earth. She is 'from above' and experiences a great measure of freedom. “ Hi! Nick Oh yes … I had stated something about the Born Again experience as being equivalent to the metamorphosis of the larve to the butterfly.[/quote] Hi dunno, Perhaps I could have put the questions in a better way. You see there is possible scriptural support for what you say as shown in Gal 4.19 “My chlidren, with whom I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you-but I could wish to be present with you now and to change my tone, for I am perplexed about you” Such is a description of the early growth of those baptised into Christ and learning slowly by ongoing submission to let their hearts and minds be transformed into the likeness of Christ. The land is occupied territory and has to be fought for with the help of the Spirit just as Joshua had to fight for every inch of the promised land. The way you present the butterfly idea suggests that it is a process all men go through without realising it and then -voila,- all is revealed and they find out that they are all sons of God! I am sure that is not your intention to make such claims so I gave you an opportunity to say so because you have yetr to stste how men begin their walk with God, and what you mean by rebirth.

Hi Nick

I suggest you read my comment again.

“It is vital that every human being personally experiences the fullness of the atonement. To this end one has to go through an inner 'metamorphosis' or transformation like the caterpillar that changes into a butterfly.”

Please take note that I prefaced the metamorphosis statement by the pleading that every human being personally experience Salvation. Is this not Scriptural? “For God so loved the world ….”.

So, Nick … it is NOT how I presented the comment … it is more of how YOU read and received it.

You seem to filter everything so utterly defensive that you end up with nothing of any value after you read it. That is why you are constantly affixing ridiculous questions and bringing suspicion to a Post.
Throughout this Forum and after ready dozens of your previous Posts, I have detected that it is hardly what one actually wrote; rather, it is how you yourself chose to decipher it for yourself that is causing the problem.

By the time someone manages to straighten out your defensive and accusatory filter to their Post, the subject matter becomes lost in the maze of archived Posts and everyone loses because of that.

[Dunno]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2006,14:01)

Quote (Dunno @ July 07 2006,11:47) You seem to be saying that Jesus was pre-existent as a divine being with God. We must also understand what it means when we acknowledge that God lives and speaks out of 'eternity past'. Hi dunno, We do not accept the Biblical Unitarian view of Jesus as just a man. We believe that demeans his glorious status as the greatest being under God. The biblical unitarian stance is based on their limited view of man as just body and spirit, and thus, by not accepting “soul” they cannot grasp the nature of heavenly beings. Their view of of human eyes and not spiritual eyes. Their denial of scripture by seeing what has been as what instead, will be, is a distortion of truth in our view and we abhor such an approach. The Son of God is the image of God and the firstborn of creation. Uncreated himself but unique and begotten of God alone all creation came through him according to scripture. Having a will and nature of his own he chose obedience in coming and even obedience unto death for the sake of the greater glory he would inherit. Called a god among other godly beings, by God in scripture though not being the one true God, and, according to scripture, with life in himself and with glory of his own, attested by those who saw him on the mountain he chose service to God, humbling himself and coming from heaven to partake of flesh and be as one of us he can truly mediate between God and us The only begotten Son was a son when he was sent[1Jn 4.9], begotten in the beginning from God Himself. We believe from scripture that he had divine nature but having emptied himself was only as a submitted vessel for God's Spirit, the anointed one or messiah he revelaed the nature and power of God in him to men.

Hi! Nick

And who may I ask is the WE in your comment, “We do not accept”

Are you speaking for everyone here?
Is this a DiscussionForum already predisposed to a structure of doctrines of which becomes the entire purpose of this WebSite?
If so, then why pretend to name it a 'DiscussionForum'?
Why don't we simply call it “Nick's Forum” and be done with the pretence?

Ummm, I don't recall my ever denying the absolute truth that man is composed of a body, soul and spirit. So, if you wouldn't mind, please strike me off your accusatory list of 'Unitarians'.

Nick, the problem seems to be that you yourself miserably fail to comprehend what the body, soul and spirit in fact are. I have read your many Posts on the matter and you evidently dance around some convoluted imagining of their biblical definitions.

Again I say to you:
You have inadvertently escaped Babylon while taking some luggage filled with any number of errors which are now causing inconsistent confessions and a blurred testimony of the Gospel.

It does no good to attempt to hide your murky luggage by accusatory pretences and mischievious slander. I suggest that you open your Bible up alongside of your Babylonian Luggage and re-examine your doctrinal posture and perhaps cause it to become consistent to Scripture.

[Dunno]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2006,06:34)

Hi dunno, You suggest that all men should undergo this butterfly transition. Is it your view, like the universalists, that all men are saved? Your words “It is vital that every human being personally experiences the fullness of the atonement. To this end one has to go through an inner 'metamorphosis' or transformation like the caterpillar that changes into a butterfly. A caterpillar comes out of the egg of the butterfly. For his nourishment and his life span the caterpillar depends on the vegetation on the ground. She is 'from below', that is, tied to the earth. A butterfly, however, can move freely around, not only in the air, but also on moments she uses the vegetation on the earth. She is 'from above' and experiences a great measure of freedom. “

Hi! Nick

I am becoming rather weary of your “off the wall” questions … asked with such a pretence of innocence but loaded with the venom of an accusation.

I have seen this innumerable occasions throughout this Forum where you continually present accusatory questions which are an obvious effort to distract from the credibility of the Poster's comments.

You do it so mischieviously too. It could be viewed as almost childish if it were not so utterly damaging.

Now … ummmm, where were we?

Oh yes … I had stated something about the Born Again experience as being equivalent to the metamorphosis of the larve to the butterfly.
And, what was Nick's off-the-wall accusatory question to my Post? Unbelievably, here it is: “Is it your view, like the universalists, that all men are saved?”

Nick, this attempt to slander my comments about the metamorphosis of man by some twisted accusation that I was presenting Universal Salvation doctrines is beyond imagining.

If you cannot properly join the discussion, try not to intentionally disrupt it by asking such ridiculous questions which serve only to accuse and slander.

[Dunno]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2006,06:36)

quote=Nick Hassan,July 07 2006,00:51]” Hi dunno, You may have thought you enlightened us but I am sure many, like me,  remain skeptical of your ideas and as yet unconvinced as to their source.[/quote]

Hi! Nick

You wrote:
“You may have thought you enlightened us but I am sure many, like me, remain skeptical of your ideas and as yet unconvinced as to their source”

ABSOLUTELY! CONTINUE BEING SKEPTICAL
If you and/or others were not skeptical, then we would not be obeying Scripture.

I don't recall my ever claiming to be infallible.

I, just as everyone else who visits here, are following after the very words which serve as a banner to this Forum, “seek and you shall find”. As such, I am merely a seeker. I visit here to read what others are sharing and oftentimes participate with my own views/comments too.

Other than that motivation, I don't lose much sleep over whether someone might be skeptical with my comments. As a matter of fact, I would invite and do welcome such skepticism. This is in keeping with the scriptural obligation to “test everything”.

[Dunno]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2006,06:23)

Hi dunno, Jesus was not just a man but a divine being who was with God.

Hi! Nick

You wrote:
“Jesus was not just a man but a divine being who was with God”.

You seem to be saying that Jesus was pre-existent as a divine being with God.

If this is so, I most definitely disagree with such a view.

Jesus was born a man and named Jesus. Then, annointed by the Spirit of God, became the Christ. Then having triumphed over Sin and Death, became the Lord Jesus Christ.

Consequently, we see Jesus “crowned with honor and glory”.

The Lord Jesus Christ is still asking all of us today the same question He posed to His disciples: “Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?”. The answer we give is an indication as to the depth of our understanding God's ultimate intents and purposes with man.

Even though we have disowned the 'Trinity Doctrines', it remains insufficient to settle for the simple answer, “Jesus is not God”. Even the devil himself is able to confess this fundamental acknowledgement.

Rather, we have to become persuaded of the “better things that accompany salvation”, (Heb 6:9).

To begin with:
To become aware of these “better things” and thus become “equipped for every good work”, we must have proper understanding of the names of Jesus as these are indicative of God's eternal intents and plans towards mankind. We must also understand what it means when we acknowledge that God lives and speaks out of 'eternity past'.

[Dunno]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2006,00:51)

“ Hi dunno. You say “After, in a certain stage of the development of man, the greatest angel had fallen, and man too had sinned, God promised the Messiah (Gen 3:15). This too came forth from the word which was with God in the beginning. God still continued to speak and think from His original thoughts and intentions. Jesus came forth from the word too. He is, in the situation that came to be and as we know it now, the centre of God's plan with man. He became the man of God, that God had intended in Genesis 1:26. In Him, the deepest sense of God's word became “flesh and blood”. The by God intended life fully came to be in His existence. That is what John speaks of. The “word made flesh” is based on the “word”, it came forth from it, but cannot be equalled to it. The “word” contains more, more than was revealed in the word made flesh. The entire plan of God with man from the beginning until eternity, with everything that was and is needed, still remains locked inside the “word”.” But we say Jesus is the Word of God, not from the Word of God.

Hi! Nick

Again, I repeat that I do not visit these Forums to convince anyone … nor to debate or whatever. I simply offer some comments and views to consider. What anyone decides after the reading is the very least of my concerns. I am only told to work out MY OWN Salvation …. not yours nor anyone else's too.

Your wrote:
“But we say Jesus is the Word of God, not from the Word of God”.

Of course, Jesus is the Word of God. The Bible clearly states this.

The problem is that you evidently have malformed ideas as to what exactly is meant by, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”.

I mentioned this to you in earlier Posts: It is insufficient to simply discern the falsehood of the 'Trinity Doctrines'. One must also realign those ideas which were deceptively interwined to this false doctrine and which have been unwittingly kept. It is as if one boasts of escaping the clutches of Babylon while, at the same time, taking with him luggage filled with adjacent errors.

[Dunno]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2006,00:41)

Hi dunno, Psalm 2 Jn 1.1 A thought or plan remains within the person who has such a thought or plan A Word is spoken and has existence of it's own, separate from the speaker of that Word. A Word can be with the speaker of that Word but a thought or plan cannot but is still within. The only begotten Son of God is the Word of God

Hi! Nick

Oh well, if that is how you wish to believe it. so be it.

I am not here to convince anyone … only to discuss things and share things.

[Dunno]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2006,23:43)

The word was spoken into existence to be a Son, God with the one true God, and surely did not remain a part of God as the trinitarians would say.

Hi! Nick

Ummm, and what would be the Easy-Read translation of your statement below mean to say?
“The word was spoken into existence to be a Son, God with the one true God, and surely did not remain a part of God as the trinitarians would say.”

You sortta' lost me on this one. Wanna' give it another try so maybe I can decipher what it is you are meaning to say?

[Dunno]

Quote (seminarian @ July 06 2006,17:38)

Ah Adam, You caught my little play on your name Sorry but I just couldn't resist. I think the others got it too! Still not going to answer my question, eh?  You know this is the same diversionary tactic the pastor of education at my church used.  Don't answer the question but throw a stack of inane definitions and articles at the person.  Or try to deflect attention by pointing to something trival such as my making sport of your username, (it was kind of funny).  At least he gave me some real articles not some lame website links!  What kind of credible Biblical research am I supposed to find there? I really don't like when people try to dodge direct questions. Just something a bit dishonest rings of it. Well, maybe the third time will do it. Please answer this DIRECT question: Jesus Prayer to the Father: And now Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I HAD WITH YOU BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN. (John 17:5) You and your BU, WAY, CFF and other ex-WAY cronies say Christ “began” in the womb of Mary and only exisited in God's foreknowledge JUST LIKE US.  Read the scripture above here. Now I don't know about you, but I didn't enjoy ANY glory before I existed because there is no GLORY in foreknowledge.  There is also no being present with God in foreknowledge. Adam, you now have 30 seconds to answer, (Jeopardy music plays in background). Still waiting, Semmy

Hi!
HeIsComing

While reading your comment, “Now I don't know about you, but I didn't enjoy ANY glory before I existed”, I half-giggled to myself.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you”
Is Jeremiah different from the rest of us? In Acts 10:34 Peter said, “God does not show favoritism . . .” He treats all of us the same.

In Ephesians 2:10 he says, “For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.” God planned us in advance.

David prayed in Psalm 138:8, “The LORD will fulfill his purpose for me; your love, O LORD, endures forever– do not abandon the works of your hands.”

And, what was the purpose of God for our lives and which was declared before any conception of time and space existed? Rom 11:36, “For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever.” “that we….should be to the praise of His glory” Eph 1:12

[Dunno]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2006,16:45)

Hi dunno, You treatise reads to me as if it is all about MAN. Surely the plan of God is about God. God is sifting and refining a people to share in his eternal plan but they are not the central feature in this plan but He is. Those who obey His Son find eternal life and partake in this glorious plan. But we do not glorify man.

Hi! Nick

Well, the short answer is: no one hardly can believe that our God has any compelling need to boast of himself by implementing some marvelous plan or whatever.

Yes, on the other hand, God rightfully boasts of His creation … His creatures … of whom He values so incredibly much that He does boast of being able to count the hairs on their heads. And, of course, considers human(kind) so intensely that initiated a saving plan to effect our restoration.

Unfortunately, alot of sincere Christians still insist on keeping a dim view of who they are now after the Born Again experience … when ALL things are passed away and ALL things became new. They still wish to think of themselves as the 'old' and 'tattered' humanity … their purposeless and fragile existence. They still insist on viewing themselves “after the flesh” rather than “after the spirit”.

If all one is able to confess is, “I am a sinner. I will always be a miserable sinner. I am here on earth, marking time and trying my best not to commit some deplorable sin which might deprive me of a reward in the eternal heaven”, then I can understand how it is that they might hesitate to declare the glorious things which have been bestowed on the crown of God's creation, Man.

One final thing:
I do not ever recall my encouraging anyone to, as you implied, “glorify man”. Quite the contrary! I do encourage everyone to recognize and declare how the faith and love of our wonderful Father is able to save them and to fix our eyes on “Christ, our hope of glory”.

[Dunno]

Quote (t8 @ July 05 2006,17:38)

wrote:

Hi! T8
and, everyone

FIrst of all, I want to sincerely thank you, T8, for your patient and kind repy to my Post. After I submitted the Post, I detected the rude manner in which I began stating my opinion but it was too late to change things. So, you have my sincere apologies if my choice of words may have offended you … or anyone else for that matter.

While drafting this, I have taken some excerpts from several articles which I recently had translated.

The true man in the capacity of 'Son of God' was not revealed during the first creation. Yet he was already in the 'Womb of the Fathers'. In this respect the Lord testified of Himself: 'Before Abraham was, I am' (John 8:58). The first mankind as a whole has a place in the eternal purpose of the mighty Creator. This means that He has to reveal the true man of whom our Lord Jesus as the only Son of God is the First Born.

From among this mankind, God particularly called the patriarchs of whom Abraham was one. Because of his faith and dedication to this calling he was not only called the founding father of the natural people of Israel, but also the 'father of all believers' (Rom 4:11,12).

Abraham and all the other persons in the bible, occupied a place God meant for them so that Christ could be born. Literally and sequentially they came before the Lord Jesus, but spiritually and essentially, Christ as man infilled with the Spirit of God came first. For example: man was already involved in God's plan before the earth, plants and animals existed for they were created to enable the birth of man.

To reveal the true man, God created the first man. He is also called 'son of God' but it means something else than the title the Lord Jesus is called by (Luke 3:38). Here it refers to the first Adam as the first born of a completely natural mankind. The first Adam and his wife Eve were not born in the way other people were, but they were created as husband and wife closely related to the elements of the visible creation.

The name Eve (taken from man) refers to the close relationship of woman with her husband (Gen 1:26-31). This reflects the close relationship God meant for man with Himself. That is why the beginning the creation of Adam and Eve onwards is a shadow image of the birth of the last Adam (the Lord Jesus) and the church (Eve). The church as 'bride of the Lamb' is expressed by preaching the Word of Truth that in turn was created to the decree of the 'Father of lights' (His 'eternal plan').

We are now witnessing the next step in the Plan of Salvation which, according to the plan of God, is the actual revelation of the 'Body of Christ'. That is why the 'first born' of the new creation are mentioned in connection with the 'Body of Christ' (Jacob 1:18; IPeter 1:23). The notion 'first born' means that more is to follow. The eternal plan of the Creator will not end before mankind and the whole of creation for her sake, will function according to His purpose. The process of development is to accomplish the fullness of God for the church and afterwards for the whole of mankind. The apostle Paul calls it the 'bath of rebirth'. To complete this process the 'renewal through the holy Spirit 'is required. (Titus 3:4-6)

The Creator was not surprised when the first man fell. Above all the eternal God envisioned the image of the true man. This 'son of His love' is the image of the invisible God. The first (natural) man is a reflection of this new man in Christ. To bring forth the true man the Creator spoke only once: 'Let us create man in our image and to our likeness' (Gen 1;26).

God created a whole, innumerable and in itself immensely varied mankind out of the first man. For this mankind the same principle applies for each separate individual. The development of this mankind will go on until it has reached the desired completion.

The Creator did not abandon His plan after the Fall. His Spirit lived on in the revelation of man as the image of God. The devil was not able to slow or block this goal by his seduction of the first human pair (Gen 3). Despite this 'fall', God kept on loving mankind. He gave man hope by committing Himself through promises and covenants along biblical lines. However, the fulfilment of this promises and the covenants would not come into being without struggle, pain and effort because of the hate and opposition of the evil spirits.

In the 'fullness of time', at God's chosen time, the First Born of the 'seed of the woman' on which the promise of God in former ages was based, was to be revealed. God's Spirit approves this seed and is therefore developing the true mankind.

The first Adam (and Eve) covers his offspring in the form of the whole of natural mankind, but the number the Creator has in mind, is not complete yet. God created the natural people of Israel as a central nation, to fulfil His promise to prompt the formation of the true man.

The old (first) testament (Covenant) of the Bible particularly deals with the developments of these earthly people of Israel. The Mediator in the (shadow) covenant between God and the first man(kind) is the law (of Moses) which was given to this people (Galatians 3:19,20; Hebrew 8:1-5). Through this people God sealed a 'marriage' with the first mankind. In the 'fullness of time' (Galatians 4:4) He created the First Born of the new (last) mankind by means of this woman. In the 'offspring' of this last Adam the 'spiritual' people of Israel or the 'Body of Christ' plays a central role.

Therefore, it is not the first Adam, but our Lord Jesus who is the First Born and the 'prototype' of mankind God from the beginning intended. For the same reason our Lord Jesus is called the 'First Born of the whole creation'. Physically He was not alive before Adam, as claimed by the so-called pre-existence doctrines. But all the same, in the eternal plan of the mighty Creator He was and is and remains forever the First Born and the 'beginning of the creation of God' (Rev 3:14).

Before anything else the true man was always the object of God's eternal love. Only for the sake of the development of this man all things both visible and invisible were created and are meaningful (Col 1:15-20). The whole realm of spirits (angels) too was created with the intention to serve man in growing into his high destiny in the plan of God (Heb 1:14).

The first man (Adam and his offspring) exists to fulfil the assignment of the Creator to 'rule' the whole creation, animate and inanimate. By means of a harmonious growth and with the subservience of the army of angels the true man should develop out of the first man. In a deeper sense this is the way of rebirth that ac
cording to the bible is necessary if man is to see the kingdom of God and enter it (John 3).

After a seemingly long road 'the first bride' of God was made ready to give birth to the 'First' born out of the 'seed'. Immediately after the fall of the first couple, God prophesied about this 'seed'. This seed would eventually exist, but only after many misfortunes brought about by the 'snake' (devil or satan, Gen 3:15,16).

The 'first woman' of God is the first mankind formed by the offspring of Adam and Eve. With the help of the lineage of Seth – Noah – Abraham, God created a central tribe. Thus, He created the people of Israel from the Fathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to which He had attached Himself by promises and tokens. And He chooses this people to bring forth the promised 'seed'.

They were 'born' in Egypt under slavery and oppression. In order to lead them out of slavery and into the shadow freedom yet of the glorified children of God, He procreated Moses. This man lay the foundation of the religious pattern of the shadow people Israel by means of a direct assignment under the inspiration of God (Gen 15; Gen 26:23,24; Gen 28:10; Gen 35:9-15).

Protected by laws and rituals this 'people' was to become mature, ready for a 'marriage' with the Creator. Eventually 'in the fullness of time' the first 'woman' of God brought forth the 'seed' that was already promised to Eve, through the chosen natural people of Israel (Gen 3:9-20). The offspring of Adam and Eve had become like the 'stars of heaven' and the 'sand on the shore of the sea'. But the Creator had in mind a specific child, the one called 'the seed of the promise' (Gal 3:19).

In the court of Eden man and consequently the whole visible creation fell under the claim of sin and death ('the earth is cursed because of you' Gen 3:17). The 'garden of Eden' is the image of the whole mankind in which two figures play a central role. In the allegory of the garden of Eden they are called 'the tree of life' and the 'tree of knowledge of good and evil'.

To take away the claim of sin and death and the sins of the world blood would have to be spilled. In fact the whole offspring of the first man would have to be sacrificed in order to meet the claim of death. For this the Lord Jesus told the parable of the merchant and the pearls (Matt 13:45,46). After the fall all the pearls were 'sold under the power of sin' and had fallen under the claim of Death through the sin of Adam (Rom 5:12-14;7:14). As 'merchant' of the 'beautiful pearls' the devil have misled people and brought them under the claim of Death. He was convinced to have man cut off from his godly destiny.

However, when the devil, the lustful merchant, was confronted with a very precious pearl he became obsessed with. In exchange of all his other pearls, this 'Pearl' was handed over to him. He thought he had won because he knew he was up against the sinless and therefore legal 'heir' of God, the man who is called the 'Son of the Almighty' (Luke 1:32-35).
This man would enable him to get the throne of God and to become equal to the Almighty, so he thought. (Isaiah 14:14). Blinded by passion he did not understand that the death of the first man would cause his own downfall. He himself, nor his servants did not know this, otherwise they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory, central in the 'hidden wisdom of God' (ICor 2:6-9).

The Lord Jesus on the other hand was aware of this plan and surrendered himself to it even if it would lead to his death. He is the 'Son of God', created by God and infilled with His Spirit. Moreover He is the 'Son of men' and with that a full son of Maria and Adam, the first man of the whole natural 'first mankind'.

Because the Lord Jesus was as a man fulfilled with the Spirit of His Father, He occupied a special position: He had the 'liking of God', that is, He was the 'Son of God' according to the eternal plan of God. He fully accepted this position and subjected Himself to the plan of God. He realised that the service of the earthly people of God was only a shadow of the true reality. He had understood and integrated the prophecy of David which says that God did not ask for visible sacrifices which could not take away 'the sin of the world'.

Through His obedience and faith the Lord Jesus was infilled with the Spirit of God. Yet He did not think of His godliness in the 'form of God' as something he robbed. On the contrary. He freely lay down this glory and took on the form of a slave. He emptied Himself because He understood that the 'sins of the world' should be carried in the same way the first man brought 'sin' into the world. The offspring of the first Adam was degraded to the position of a slave because of sin (Gen 3; Philippians 2:5-9).

The Lord Jesus is the First Born of the last mankind. The apostle Paul called Him the last Adam of which the first Adam is a shadow image. (1Cor 15:45) Our Lord was and is the first man who had part of the fullness of God. According to Isaiah's prophecy whom he appropriated to Himself by faith during his walk on earth, He knew that He would suffer, that He would be crushed to death to meet the will of God. (Isaiah 53). Owing to his faith and according acts, He was exalted to Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36). After his victory on the cross and his triumph over Death, he climbed up to the throne of the father, vested with godly authority and appearance.

As Lord of the universe, possessing all power in heaven and on earth, He is still pouring out the Spirit of God – the promise of the Father – into the hearts of thirsty believers. The result is that This Spirit will touch others because the believer has become a fountain of living water (John 7:37-39).

The so called 'Secret of God' includes God's plan for the whole creation. God's plan shows a clear line revealed to 'children' according to God's will (Cp Matthew 11:25,26), but hidden to many religious wise and sensible men.

Paul wrote in Rom 11:36, “For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things”. If, in our thoughts, we go back to the beginning, we end up with God. Something very similar can be found in 1Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him “. All things originate from God.

John 1:1 says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made”.

Something came to be born in the heart of God. It formed in God's being and from the depths of God. In God “the Word” was formed and that 'word' is the substance of all things which were to be. God worked on a plan. In His inner self a fantastically marvelous idea evolved; a thought containing all. And it was with God. It was hidden with God as a yet an unspoken thought. The word was with God; the word was God. That plan, that unspoken word, is what formed the beginning. Before God spoke one word, that word -we mean the complete plan of God- was in Him, and God had thought of everything, (including even the smallest details), and considered and concluded to Himself: this is it! This is the plan I will accomplish.

In the beginning, this word was with God and all things came to be of that word, (this thought), and became the basis of God's plan. The Apostle John stated that without this Word was not anything made that was made. We can see just how deep and profound was the insight which John had in the eternal purposes and intents of God. It formed the very basis of his thinking and the starting-point of his gospel and letters, (John1:1 and 1John 1:1). We should want to posture ourselves on this basis also; on the origin
al word of God.

Insight in the original is extremely important. If we understand what God's original intentions were, it is possible to recognize and realize everything that differs. It is a proper focus on the original which allows us a proper view of the conclusion when pondering the eternal purposes of God. God continues to work and carries out His plans from out of His original intentions. His actions are always based on the “word that is from the beginning” and are aimed to complete realization of that word, that plan. Insight into the original affords a view of the completion. Also, the other way around. This also offers us today, as New Testament believers, to orient ourselves. Where are we from? Where are we going?

John 1:1 says, “In the beginning was the Word”. This verse tells us about the time preceding Genesis 1:1. The creator started executing His plan only after everything concerning this plan had completely matured. It is because of this that His work can never be stopped. God didn't start on impulse. He prepared everything in an uninterrupted peace and confidence which characterizes His very being. God is absolutely confident about His plan.

What did God think? What did the word contain? Can we hear and understand it? Amos 4:13 tells us that, “God, declareth unto man what is His thought”. While we are presently unable to be entirely complete about this, we do however have valuable insights. We can, from the works of God, construct the original plan of God. Therefore, we now understand that God wanted to give from Himself; He wanted us to be a part of Him. God wanted a partner to whom He could give Himself completely in love and in whom He could rejoice until eternity. This partner would be able to return His love and have an enormous amount of possibilities and thus God would never lose interest in him. This partner would be able to be a part of all of God's plans.

This partner, of whom God was thinking, would be on His level. A partner able to live in an atmosphere of pure love and who would, from out of their free will, dedicate all their created abilities and talents to a relationship in complete dependence on God. God wasn't thinking of a second God, but He thought of a worthy partner that would fit Him perfectly and harmoniously. A woman to God, after His image and likeness. We could describe it as “complementary” to God; completely belonging to one another, in beings and works.

God pictured Himself a being that would fulfill all His needs. He saw a being with unimaginable, never ending possibilities. A being with a heart that could love Him. A being that could develop in many respects, in quality and quantity. A being that would manifest itself in infinite variations and in many personalities so God would be able to manifest Himself completely in him. A being in whom God could be “all in all”, (1Cor 15:28). This total of personalities could live together formed as one. Each individually and together forming a unity in a narrow love relationship with God. This was the substance of God's motivation and to which everything visible and invisible evolve. This would come forth from Him to be created by Him and exist for the glory of His blessedness.

Of what being was God thinking? God was thinking of man; of you and me. All of God's plans and purposes are based on that thought: on God's longing for man. It was man, who would be created as “God's son”; born from God, and to God, and would grow into an adult son. Man, with his (by God) created potential to grow into a mankind, who as God's wife would live with Him until eternity.

In order to acquire this woman, God created everything that would be needed. In His thoughts He prepared the greatest work possible. A perfect work. A creation, a grand Godly creation. Since the beginning God had us envisioned. There would be a heaven and an earth, richly and abundantly provided with all possibilities and means to prepare that man for his godly destiny. It is for that purpose that God created the heaven and the earth, (Gen.1:1).

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth (Gen 1:1). God knew what exactly He started when He began creating the heaven and the earth. This would be the setting, in which God would fulfill His plan with man, mankind. From that very moment until now, God still hasn't changed and neither will He ever change. Our God continues to work firmly on a complete realization of all, that was with Him in the beginning. In you and me at every moment God sees that potential candidate, -that unique being-, that is destined to mature and develop into that godly level where we are revealed as the bride of God and in whom God is all things in all.

While studying God's deeds of creation in Genesis 1, we note that God does not do everything at once. Rather, God chose to pursue a unique principle of growth and development which offered unprecedented and unlimited possibilities. It is through this godly principle that God realizes His plan. In certain growth stages and developmental periods a maturing process develops. In a certain stage things can come to be very suddenly. However, this always is part of the larger entirety.

God wanted to acquire His partner. If He would have created it ready-made, there wouldn't have been anything to “acquire”. In this way, God works steadily to total realization of His original target. Through the growth and development of talents that were created by God, man could enter into a close relationship with God and evolve into a mature independent being. This independent being could volunteer to follow after God's intentions and needs with all that is in him through free will and love. God worked this out in His infinite wisdom.

We also note that God always works in a particular climate. With God exists complete calmness, complete security and unshakable faith in His own plan and work which is accompanied by an inexhaustible amount of energy. We should both admire God in this with respect and honor, and also find a basis for our own life in this knowledge. It is good to remind ourselves constantly of this. It can hardly be described with words. This all is in God and from God. We can cooperate with God's ultimate intentions for us from out of this same calmness and security. God's work will reach completion in our lives, for God wants it. God will succeed!

God created the angels in a certain connection, a certain arrangement, through which in heaven a kingdom came to be where God was King. This is the beginning of God's Kingdom. God as creator, as King of all the angels, carries, supports, contains, controls and inpires all angels.

The world of the angels is a harmoniously formed entirety, in which God is the centre, and in which everyone has his own task, and has his own unique place and position, in which he shows specific abilities and skills. In this arrangement groups can be identified, that are commanded by principalities, princes and archangels. Daniel 12:1 tells us about Michael the great prince. So he is a prince amidst the angels. He leads a large group of angels, also called “his” angels (Re.12:7). Jude calls Michael an archangel, a prominent angel. Paul too at a certain time speaks of an archangel (1Thess.4:16). In Luke 1:19 is spoken of the angel Gabriel who stands in the presence of God .

In Revelation 18:1 an angel is mentioned, having great power. When Paul speaks in Ephesians 6:12 of ” principalities, powers, the rulers of the darkness of this world, spiritual wickedness in high places “; he speaks of ranks and classes in the empire of darkness. Because this entire empire, by the fall of Lucifer, came to be through the originally by God created angels, we can deduce from the insight of Paul, that these different levels already extisted before Lucifer's fall, and still exists in the angels that remained faithfull. This thought is confirmed in Colossians 1:16; it says:” For by Him were all things created that are in heaven and that are on earth
, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers: all things were created by Him and for Him . So not all angels are alike. They are all ministering spirits; that's how they were created. In the Kingdom of God is reigned by being “everyone's servant”. The angels work together in complete peacefulness and great joy, benevolence and harmony, with loyalty and faith. That is how we may picture ourselves the tenths of thousands (some translations say: innumerable company) of angels, of who Hebr. 12:22 tells us. That is true theocracy. That's how God intended, thought of it and created it.

Why did God create these myriads of angels? They are all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for those who shall be heirs of salvation (Heb.1:14) God gives His angels charge over thee to keep thee in all thy ways. They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone (Ps.91:11,12). These positive minded heroes, that excel in strength, that do His commandments, are constantly ministering you and me. They want nothing else than to minister us, so we can go where God wants us to be. Let us, in the time in which we live now, become more and more aware of the presence of these intensely good ministering spirits in our lives. Their powers are enormously great; they are completely fit up to their task. They wish to support man in all good works, strengthen him, protect and save. At all times we can pray to God for support and guidance by these celestial servants, who were created for the good of man. Let us thank God for all these angels. In relationship with with Him and His Son Jesus Christ, and supported, ministered by all holy angels we shall be able to fulfill God's intentions in and with our lives.

And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth (Gen 1:26).

An announcement that differs from all previous words of creation. On none of the previous days God had spoken of 'let us'. With the creation of the heaven and the earth no mention is made of others, that would have been involved with the creation. God worked 'alone' Isa 44:24 says. There was noone besides God or with God with whom He consulted, or with whom He did things together: For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? (Rom 11:34). For He spoke, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood (Ps 33:9). Then why now, at the height of God's acts of creating, this 'let us'? Was there a second person after all? Does this account for the by many believed pre-existent presence of Jesus Christ?

When John begins his gospel with the words: “In the beginning was the Word “, many people without doubt think of the person of Jesus Christ. For this verse 14 is called on: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us. They then equal “Word made flesh” to the “Word”. In his first letter John speaks of the word of life. This life was with the Father and was revealed unto us. Here too the 'revealed word of life' is being equalled to what was with the Father. This should be continued in all other texts in which is spoken of the Word. Heb 11:3 says: Through faith we understand that the ages were framed by a word of God, so that the things seen should not have come into being out of the things that appear. This would then mean that not God, but Jesus would be the creator. This however contradicts Isa 44:24 and Isa 45:12. The above method of approach obscures the entire creation, and the place and position of Jesus Christ, His ancestry and birth as well as God's deepest intentions with man.

With the “word” John doesn't point to a “being” between the uncreated God and the created things, but the total of God's plan with man. Based on this all encompassing, perfect, intense good plan, God started creating. It is from this “word” that all words and deeds of creation came forth: the heaven, the angels, the earth, the expanse, the sun, the moon, the stars, the plants, the birds, the fish and all other animals, man. All came to be by this word and based on this word.

After, in a certain stage of the development of man, the greatest angel had fallen, and man too had sinned, God promised the Messiah (Gen 3:15). This too came forth from the word which was with God in the beginning. God still continued to speak and think from His original thoughts and intentions. Jesus came forth from the word too. He is, in the situation that came to be and as we know it now, the centre of God's plan with man. He became the man of God, that God had intended in Genesis 1:26. In Him, the deepest sense of God's word became “flesh and blood”. The by God intended life fully came to be in His existence. That is what John speaks of. The “word made flesh” is based on the “word”, it came forth from it, but cannot be equalled to it. The “word” contains more, more than was revealed in the word made flesh. The entire plan of God with man from the beginning until eternity, with everything that was and is needed, still remains locked inside the “word”.

In Prov 8:22-31 is written about wisdom. The style the biblical author used, could again lead to misunderstanding. Wisdom is being described as a person, said to be created before everything else. The LORD possessed Me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old (verse 22). This is parallel to the thought from John 1. The wisdom was a workman at His side (verse 30), Corresponds to the word that was with God. The “wisdom” too contains the total of God's intentions and plans. It is by this word and based on this wisdom God had all these things come into being; that He created the heaven, the first dust particles of the world and determined the foundations of the earth (26, 27, 29). Paul, in his first letter to Corinthians, speaks of Christ Jesus, who of God is made to us wisdom and righteousness and sanctification and redemption (1:30). Here too Christ being “word made flesh” comes up. He is given to us based on the original plan of God, God's wisdom, to which God remained faithful even after man's first sin, and will remain faithful until eternity. God's wisdom contains more than what was revealed in Jesus Christ. For example, God has put the authority of time and seasons in His own authority (Acts 1:7).

The 'let us make man', does not point to a second God, or to the presence of Jesus Christ at that moment. What does it mean? Why speak in plural? This not accidental. It has a deeper meaning. Everything God created until that moment could be of service to what God was about to create now. All the angels would put into action all their abilities and powers to support man(kind) in his development, to minister and accompany, so God's intentions with man would be fulfilled. In that sense God speaks of 'let us', a clear call on the (continuing) dedication of all angels. He makes it clear, to what purpose He created them.

But there is more. From the Sixth Day of creation God never did anything 'on His own'. With the creation of man He started to cooperate. He would lay the foundation, but everything that would come to be on that foundation, could only be accomplished together with man. That's how God, based on His eternal love for man, had determined. Man could in returning his love for God, come into a closer and closer and more and more intimate relationship with God, and become the fulfillment of God's intentions: His partner until eternity. The 'let us' that sounds in the announcement of God's greatest creation, points to the desire of God to come to a joint working from the very first beginning. It shows very beautifully and clearly with what expectations God started realizing His deepest thought. It gives man(kind) from the very beginning something of the future to come, the finalization. The 'being God's
partner'; would, in the complete development to that, already have a concrete meaning. God never did let go of this 'let us', and neither will He ever let go. All that comes to be in man, with man and through man after God's will, is a fruit of this cooperation between man and his God. Jesus too was born after a renewed 'let us'. We shall see this central idea in God's plan for many times to come.

In the announcement of the creation of man God speaks about man “in our image, after our likeness”. In the transcription translation by Dr. Reisel verse 26 is translated as follows: We shall make man(kind) after our image, consistent to us, and they shall have dominion over. So, God speaks of a being, man, that could just as Him and all His angels function in the spiritual world, and who, from this situation and position, would reign the earth. When God, in verse 27, actually starts creating man it says: “And God created man in His image”. This verse clearly tells us by who man was created: by God, by Him alone! In this, the angels could not serve or help God: man himself wasn't there either.

God created man after His image, In the image of God He created him. It doesn't say: “and they created man after their image, in their image they created him”. The plural is only used in the announcement in verse 26. The angels must have watched it, full of expectancy, ready to be sent out by God to be of service to man, and man himself would also be put into action after his creation, but the beginning was a matter of God alone. God created man after His image. In Genesis 5:1 this thought is repeated: ” This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, He(!) made him in the likeness of God.

Man bears the image of God, a son of God, in nature and being. Man has God's likeness, but is not equal to God. God created man with qualities and abilities, that corresponds to what was in Him. He created a human being, that was completely complementary to His own being, with every possibility for a complete and ever lasting relationship. Not a being that was identical to God, but who fitted God harmoniously in every aspect. Besides this all, God laid the earlier mentioned unique principle of growth and evolution in this human being. From this perfect starting point lead by and in relationship with God he could grow into the adulthood, God had pictured: a life on a level worthy to God in a loving and working relationship with God. It is not without a cause that the Psalms-author sings: ” For You have made him a little lower than the angels, and have crowned him with glory and honor. You made him rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet ” (Ps 8:5,6). This does not point to the imperfect natural man, but to the still immature spiritual man (stature). While creating man after His image, God made such a good and perfect basis, that everything, really everything was contained in it that would be needed for a realization of His intentions with man. God did not create a man to be able to create a second man from the first, God created MAN.

In Genesis 1:26 God announces His complete plan with man. Let Us make man in Our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over all works of My hands; That's how we could summarize it. This announcement of God was so comprehensive, it had such far reaching consequences for the times to come, that only God Himself could see the scope of it. The angels, in that phase, could not have seen all consequences of God's intentions. Peter would later describe:” which things the angels desire to look into (1Pe 1:12). The angels must have experienced of the intense joy that must have gone out from God, when He announced these things. They heard God speak, but not until a later stage did they start to comprehend the essence. To God however, this was the big moment; now would be created of which He had longed for from the beginning. The 'let them have dominion' should be interpreted in all it's fullness. The dominion of man(kind) over all created things is only possible from a heavenly position. Not one being, that “only lives on earth”, is able to comprehend all of life on earth in all it's details, to protect and to preserve. This is only possible for someone, who has a relationship with the Creator of the earth, to someone who finds himself on the same level as that Creator, and who can work with all possibilities that position offers. God, in His announcement already calls upon man to 'climb up', to carry everything together with God, to have dominion. With this God already points to the finalization: man with Him on the throne.

A well known and striking example of this truth is the butterfly in the cocoon. In secret this grows out to adulthood by making use of the caterpillar that has nestled in the same cocoon from which the butterfly emerges and then flies into the sky to live its independent and free life.

Thus, the new man-in-Christ grows through rebirth in 'secret' and under the protection of the natural life, all along making use of the perishable body. In the end this 'perishable and mortal' will be devoured by the imperishable and immortal. All this will happen in the process and completion of rebirth, where the inner man of the believer grows out into the adulthood of the 'image of the first Son' (1Cor 15:49;2Cor 5;Philippians 3:10-16).

The Spirit of God is also called the Spirit of the sonship. The immediate result of the risen First Born is the formation of the 'Body of Christ' by this Spirit as a preparation for the 'fullness of times'. In this 'age' everything in heaven and on earth is made a perfect tool according to the intentions of the Creation. Then there will be many sons of God who together form a 'Body of Jesus Christ'. This is why the scriptures say that He is the 'first among many brethren' (Rom 8:29; Heb 2:10).

The church of Jesus Christ then, develops out of the last Adam (in comparison with Eve who was created out of the first Adam). This is caused by the process of faith, rebirth and the infilling with the Spirit of God and the works of the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom 9:6-8,25,26;2Cor 6:16; 1Pet 2:9,10). This body of Christ is the 'church of the end times'. Its members are men who are reborn and infilled with the Spirit of God. As part of the process during which God makes all things new, through this church, the whole of mankind shall be restored and become a true tool in God's hands (Rev 21:5). In this new mankind the mighty Creator shall ultimately be all in all (1Cor 15:28).

Regarding the new mankind the Creator only once made known His desire of an eternal (marriage) partner with the words: 'Let us make people to our image and our likeness' (Gen 1:26). Compare these words with what has been said in Revelations 21:5: 'Look, I make all things new' and Revelations 1:8: 'I am the Alpha (beginning} and the Omega' (end). According to this eternal idea, God uses the whole of (the first) man to create the new (last) man. Thus, the godly principle proves again to be true: the eldest (first) will serve the youngest (last).

Right in the beginning of the bible this godly idea is expressed in the image of the marriage between man and woman (Gen 2:24). In the pure marriage the husband uses his wife fully in order to create the 'seed', on the condition this is done freely and desired by both.

The 'offspring' of the First Born will also be brought out in the same way, namely through the faith of the inner man who, ,seen from the outside, remains still in his natural body. This 'offspring' is formed 'in heaven' through the principle of rebirth and infilling with the Spirit of God who works on earth from a heavenly position.

The first Adam was a 'living soul', a very gifted natural man, able to grow fully to the high destiny the Creator ordained. Adam was
one with the world in which he was placed and therefore able to rule this world in a perfect way. Despite his natural gift the first man does not know the reality of the spiritual world, even before the Fall. This is compared to the 'wisdom' of the later king Solomon. Despite his wisdom, unprecedented in the days before and after him, the Lord Jesus considered this wisdom of minor importance than the knowledge of the 'kingdom of heavens' (1Kings 3:5-15; Matt 12:42).

The final goal of the gospel of the kingdom of heavens is the completion of the plan of God concerning the whole creation. In this respect the Re-creator made a statement that says: 'See, I make all things new'! (Rev 21:5). Herein the Creator follows a set plan (the 'eternal purposes' as mentioned above). Hereby our God fully uses the first man. In his great love for man and in His care and grace He created a way out of corruption. Through this process of rebirth and of renewal through the holy Spirit He made us coheirs of Jesus Christ, who is the Heir of all things (Titus 3:4-7).

The first step towards the salvation that God has planned, was the formation of a people of his own on earth. He Works through them by means of different shadow images and a yearly cycle of festivals towards the revelation of man according to His 'eternal plan'. The first man who lived up to this purpose is our Lord Jesus, the Christ. Immediately hereafter, the true church or the 'Body of Christ' has been formed. This church is the 'dwelling of God', built on the only and true foundation laid by the Creator Himself.

The shadow image of the true people or building of God is the visible people of Israel. Just as the natural people of Israel are central in the 'first mankind' which was born out of the first Adam by a natural birth, the 'Body of Christ' is central in the 'new mankind' which was born out of the last Adam by rebirth. The same principle of shadow and reality applies for the individual man whose visible appearance is temporal and perishable while his invisible inner being is eternal and imperishable (2Cor 4:17-5:5).

By means of the true church the 'secret of God' concerning His 'eternal plans' will be revealed. For ages this secret remained hidden in God, but the church as the expression of His manifold wisdom proclaims this secret now in the heavenly realms to the principalities and powers who are still in operation(Eph 3:9-12).

So, we see that this age has begun with the revelation of Jesus as the Christ and therefore the first Son of God. It ends with the revelation of the 'many sons' who will be by God to the same glory as the glory of the 'First Born' (Heb 2:10). This is the revelation of the 'body of Christ. For indeed, the glory of Christ is also the glory of the 'Body of Christ'.

The seventh month is the image of the endtime, the time of the harvest. We have already entered this era. At first the church of Jesus Christ comes to completion to be followed by the whole creation. This process takes place despite much battle and effort because of the opposition of the evil spirits. Through the power of His Spirit the work of God will be brought to its ordained destiny despite fierce resistance. Therefore, it is necessary and possible that we have faith in the victory over the powers of darkness because of the Spirit that lives in us. This Spirit makes man a true Christian. The believer who has not yet received this Spirit shall have to cleanse himself and to reach out in faith for this Spirit. Thanks to the given promise the gift is for everyone whom in faith asks for it (Matt 3:11; Luke 11:13; John 1:5, 11:16).

The preparatory work of the holy Spirit first brings forth the true church (the whole of believers who are infilled with the Spirit, the 'Body of Christ') in full stature. When this has become true, the atonement has been fully achieved. The Lord Jesus shall then present his 'bride' and clothe her in 'spotless fine linen' (full justice), holy and blameless, equipped to very good work. (Eph 5:26,27, Rev. 19:8)

It is vital that every human being personally experiences the fullness of the atonement. To this end one has to go through an inner 'metamorphosis' or transformation like the caterpillar that changes into a butterfly. A caterpillar comes out of the egg of the butterfly. For his nourishment and his life span the caterpillar depends on the vegetation on the ground. She is 'from below', that is, tied to the earth. A butterfly, however, can move freely around, not only in the air, but also on moments she uses the vegetation on the earth. She is 'from above' and experiences a great measure of freedom.

They are related to one another because the butterfly needs the caterpillar to be able to grow out into a butterfly by the food the caterpillar takes. Its only function is to pass on life so that the butterfly can manifest herself in all her beauty and possibilities. The caterpillar itself is not fruitful and cannot procreate as the butterfly does. In the same way the religious man has to grow into a spiritual man by feeding himself with the good word of God. He has to be renewed in his mind! (Rom 12:2). Therefore, the core of the matter is that the life of Jesus and not only the knowledge of Jesus will come to age.

The development for the man-in-Christ is therefore directly allied to the victory of Jesus Christ over the devil and Death. The 'firstborns' of the new creation take part in the 'first resurrection'. These are bought from the people as 'firstborn' before God and the Lamb. They follow the Lamb wherever It goes and they stand with the Lamb on the holy mountain Zion, a shadow image of the infilling with the Spirit of God. On this 'mountain' the true Church of Jesus Christ is built as a 'temple, holy in the Lord' and a 'dwelling of God in the Spirit' (Eph 2:21,22; Rev 141-5).

The 'sons of God' who partake in the 'first resurrection', are, just like the Lord, blessed and holy and function fully according to the intentions of God. Like the Lord they are completely freed from the claim of Death.

Since His suffering, death and victory, the Lord is making His church and the earth new from out of the only true and solid foundation of the atonement (2Tim 2:19) according to God's eternal plan. Thus, the 'manifold wisdom of God' shall made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly realms (Eph 3:9-12).

Eventually, the moment the restoration plan of God shall reach her completion, the holy city, the 'new Jerusalem,' shall descend in visible form from heaven to earth. The 'glory of God' (the gospel of Jesus Christ) within her walls shall enlighten her. Central in this city of God is the Lamb of God, which has carried the sins of the world and has taken them away (sin=literally not achieving the purpose). In turn this new Jerusalem is like an place of peace among mankind that is already freed from the oppression of the 'slave driver' and Death, but that still has to heal the wounds. The 'river of the water of life', the Spirit of God, which wells from the throne of 'God and the Lamb are feeding the 'tree of life' standing on both riverbanks and in the middle of her stream. Therefore, this tree bears always fruit that is the right food for the people, while her 'leaves' work out healing for their wounds.
From this centre the Lord God shall be all in all (1Cor 15:28) and reveal His manifold wisdom by means of the church with the Lord Jesus as Head. His light will eternally shine over the people, unhampered by anything and His salvation shall cause complete peace (Rev 21:9-22:5).

[Dunno]

Quote (t8 @ June 25 2006,22:27)

Yes Cubes. The Father is Jesus's God and or God. Although Jesus is not the Most High, he is a divine being. His nature is from God. He did partake of human nature when he came to earth however, and in that sense he was a man.

Hi! T8

You are absolutely correct in saying, “The Father is Jesus's God and or God”.

But, subsequent to that statement, your further comments are, (if you don't mind me saying so), rather bizarre.

You stated, “He is a divine being”. This can only be true if you also declare that Jesus BECAME such as he was the First Begotten of the New Creation. Jesus was NOT born on the face of the earth as 'divine'. He was born a natural man.

You stated, “His nature is from God”. This can also only be true if you add that for Jesus too, “old things pass away, behold all things become new”.

You said, “He did partake of human nature”. Jesus was first born as a Son of Man' and then matured and developed under the guidance and intervention of His Heavenly Father (God) to become the 'Christ' and a 'Son of God'.

Does not your Bible clearly state that YOU are to develop and mature into a son of god too? In the same manner and way this occurs in YOUR being, it also occurred in the life of Jesus. This is why Jesus is the Forerunner … our Brother. This is why He is the First Born of the New Creation. You and I are the Second Born and the Third Born and so forth.

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