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[Beloved]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 19 2009,17:18)

Beloved wrote: Quote I ask, do you still sin? That is the wrong question.  The question should rather be do you believe God can and will stop you from sinning? The revised question is asking you whether or not you believe in God while the first is not and may be construed as attempting to prove God does not exist.

I thought about it a while after I posted. Now reading it over it sounds wrong to me.

My main point was that people still sin today. No one was cast into the lake of fire and experienced the second death yet. Not Satan, not his demons, neither sinners. Seeing as to how that is supposed to happen, shouldn't that wipe sin away from the new earth? Which is also saying this is not the new earth because it sin is still here.

[Beloved]

Quote (thethinker @ Nov. 19 2009,06:06)

Please read Isaiah's account of the new earth (chaps 65-66). He clearly said that there would be death and sinners present in the new earth. He said also that they would “bring forth children.” Yet the futurists tell us that man will cease as a breeding race in the new earth. John also saw sinners outside the gates of the holy city but they are not permitted to enter the gates of the city (Rev. 22:14-15). So sinners exist in the new earth. The new earth is simply THIS earth covenantally renewed. It is only in heaven that there is no sin or death or sinners. Paul said that this earth would be redeemed (Rom. 8). The eradication of sin in the experience does not happen in redemption. “If any man be in Christ he is a NEW CREATION.” You still sin don't you? thinker

I ask, do you still sin?

Yes, I do. I'm not perfect. I'm still having a hard time loving ALL the people around me, which is one of the greatest commandments. Though I'm very content with the idea of loving people just because the bible says to do so. It's the only way I can love people that my mind and personality have deemed unlovable.

What I do is repent and I've asked God that he help me renew my mind. Because only with renewing my mind can I truly repent and not make the same mistakes again. To just give God an excuse is not repenting and means that you'll just go back to sinning again.

It's mentioned that in the end Satan as well as a [/B]bunch of others will have their time to go into the lake of fire. But everyone that's supposed to go into that lake is still here on earth. =\

Sin is still here, liars are still here, murderers are still here etc. If in the end they ALL perish, then how is it that the new world will have sin in it? When the sinners are all to pay for what they've done via the second death.

Rev 22:14-15: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of ilfe, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” You're using it to back up that this is the new earth. But no one's lining up at the gates of the city right now are they? I think of the city were revealed to even where sinners can see it, we'd have known about it. It'd have been not just in the bible in past tense, but it'd be a widely known historical event.

Or are you saying that no one living right now can even get into the city and that we're all screwed cause we weren't born in the time you say everything already happened?

[Beloved]

Where did the year 70AD come from? What proof from the bible is there that this year is even significant? I'm curious as to why it keeps being mentioned. Where does it mention 70AD in the bible word for word.

To my understanding, man has screwed up the time line in the first place. We go by what we're taught in worldly schools and pass it off as “that's the way it is”.

Here's a common timeline misconception: Christopher Columbus discovered America in 1492. Everyone is taught this when its in fact wrong. Just like we're all supposed to believe that Jesus was born December 25th. That's wrong also. It's the same ideas of man that give us a holiday in which evil is okay and made a very popular trend that we call tradition and holiday, Halloween.

So TT are you going by a time given to you in a textbook or documentary or is it in scripture?

And about eclipses. There was no doubt they happened in the time of Thessalonians. And they probably didn't know how to explain it and hence we have their description of an even they couldn't understand.

[Beloved]

Haha okay now I can go to sleep!

[Beloved]

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 18 2009,17:44)

A group of intellects spoke through a man and were driven into some pigs that made them run down a hill. This is the work of demons gene. Demons have doctrines that they teach men. One of those doctrines is that demons do not exist.

This is so true.

I wonder if Gene has ever heard that one of the greatest deceptions that Satan has convinced the world of is that he doesn't exist.

And this is seen all the time. There are even people who believe in God but do not believe there's a Satan. Which is a very contradictory belief.

Either way, demonic possession is in the bible and it also has happened to people. Just look into criminal and psychiatric cases throughout history. Yes, there are some that were stamped as demonic possession by somebody trying to get off, but there are also cases that are genuine.

[Beloved]

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 24 2009,04:10)

To All……………There are (NO) devils or demon (BEINGS) going around jumping in and out of People, this is all part of the (MYSTERY RELIGION) Teachings about the doctrines of devils and demons,  Anyone can be a Satan or Devil (adversary) of GOD, by resisting the truth of GOD, makes anyone who does that a devil (adversary) of GOD. Its just that simple, nothing complicated about it. NO MYSTERY it just how you think that is all.  IMO peace and love to you all…………….gene

If there's no demons entering people then how do you explain actual, physical, accounts and criminal cases that involve demonic possession which called for exorcisms?

That's not mystery religion teaching. Possession happens to actual people. That you can see, hear, touch, get my drift? It's not on a piece of paper or just talked about in churches. Real people suffer. It's as simple as that and not complicated at all.

Some or maybe most events are written off as mental illness etc. but clearly what psychology and even forensics attempts to explain cannot be fully explained. Though there's always a medication that is “supposed” to make it all better or someone is thrown in jail/prison or a ward on the account of being out of their mind or the cause of the victim's suffering.

Is then exorcisms a waste of time because there's nothing there?

It's not just Catholics that perform exorcisms either. Exorcisms are performed in Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Zen, Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, Anglicanism, Lutheranism, Methodism, Pentecostalism. Even Scientology can see that exorcisms have significance. None of these are mystery religions.

For something such as demonic possession to be so widely known throughout the world besides being in the bible, wouldn't you think there's something to it instead of writing it off as phony? I mean, I could see you doing so if it wasn't in the bible at all, but it is. Jesus did it, his apostles did it.

NOT every case including demonic possession and an exorcism involved jail time or medication. Some have succeeded.

Take a case like that of Anneliese Michel, a German woman said to have been possessed by 6 or more demons and underwent 2 exorcisms. A lot of medical conditions were tossed around concerning what happened to her. Anyone who looks into the case can see that there was something out of the ordinary going on that isn't associated with the symptoms of what she was associated with. It was just disease after disease naming to explain her case. Just make a list and tell me it doesn't dawn on you that each disease thrown out doesn't appear more like an excuse made at the time. First they're saying its all in her head “schizophrenia”. Then we progress to “it happens to her but maybe there's a medical reason that isn't psychological” and there you have Grand Mal epilepsy. And then in the end, the blame is put on outsides source. I.E. her family, those closest to her, and even on the exorcists.

Now take a look at the exorcism of Gottliebin Dittus, performed by Johann Blumhardt. It was successful. There are probably many more cases of successful exorcisms and the casting out of spirits. The first place to look is in the bible before venturing out to discover actual events and accomplishments.

Psychiatrist M. Scott Peck took a look at demonic possession and exorcisms in order to disprove it. He ended up concluding it as an ACTUAL phenomena after his investigations. He wanted his research validated and tried to make an impact by getting the psychiatric community to add 'evil' to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders [or DSMIV for short].

So what does that tell you? Even the world can see there's something to demonic possession. Not just those that are religious.

What separates the belief in demonic possession from false teachings? Its in the bible and is mentioned countless times. The truth of God is in the word and demons are a part of it. If you're gonna deny demons you mine as well deny angels. There's a difference between demons and devils too. There are many demons, but there's A Devil and that is Satan.

People who deny the truth of God being referred to as demons and devils…I have to look that up. I don't remember reading that in scripture as of yet. I know they're called fools, non-believers. If its in there in the context you use it in, consider that words can have more than one definition.

That is all.

[Beloved]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2008,13:08)

Hi, This has come up and deserves it's own thread. A manmade philosophy relating to knowledge and not relationship. It seems to simply require the acknowledgement of God to join up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism   This site seems to have a masonic aspect with the pyramid. http://www.deism.com/deism_defined.htm   http://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/deism.htm

I read the links you put up.

Deism sounds like people were searching for the truth, didn't like a lot of concepts they came across, and just said “Eff it, God is real but he doesn't do anything.”

Excuse my language.

But I have a few things to bring up. This is my first time hearing about “Deism”.

1. Reading their website, they clearly have compromised God's word with the world, which the bible clearly says to NOT do.

2. To think that God hasn't laid a hand on anything denies a ton of the events that even happened in the bible as God's doing.

3. The symbol on their website; clearly Masonic. It's the “All seeing eye”/ “Eye of Providence”. It traces all the way back to the Eye of Horus. The SAME symbol is within Luciferianism. It's one of many occult symbols out there.

4. Faith. They operate without faith. But it is also clear that you need faith in order to believe in God. Faith and belief are like the two faces on the same coin. Faith is confidence, not some feeling you get in your gut. To not have faith in God is the same thing as saying that you don't really believe in him. How can you believe in something and have no faith in it? That sounds odd because it is not so.

5. I really need to stop posting at 2 in the morning so that I can have some daylight and the brains to put scriptures to back me up. Maybe then I'll actually post without typos.

I'll come back and get in further detail later. I need sleep first.

[Beloved]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 18 2009,16:15)

Quote (Beloved @ Nov. 18 2009,11:13) Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 02 2009,03:00) Quote (david @ Aug. 31 2009,10:26) New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967, Vol. XI, p. 1034) acknowledges: “In the final analysis, the Catholic doctrine on purgatory is based on tradition, not Sacred Scripture.” “The church has relied on tradition to support a middle ground between heaven and hell.” —U.S. Catholic, March 1981, p. 7. “What goes on in purgatory is anyone’s guess.”—U.S. Catholic, March 1981, p. 9. We could always ask Dante. A David did you know that the Priest will except money for their prayers and a Mass for the death.  I always thought that was odd, to say the least.  I wonder if they still do so?  But when we belonged that is what they did. For all those poor Souls in  Pergatory!!!! Irene I heard about that. That's messed up! No where in the bible does it even say to pray for the dead. =\ I mean, that doesn't even make any sense. They're already dead. They had their chances to make things right. It's over for them and that's that. You should pray for the living and those around you. THEY are the ones that people should be focusing in because they still have days to live, decisions to make, experiences, and chances. I agree though I hope the dead chose right though in some cases I fear they did not.  Never the less, God is just!

I know what you mean.

God gave us free will and honors our choices.

And where we end up is the consequence of what we choose for ourselves.

[Beloved]

Thanks for the welcome. I was just browsing through the responses made to this topic and I really can't understand the view that this is the new earth. That someone would think that baffles me. There's so much that the bible says is going to happen that hasn't even taken place yet.

We are getting closer to the new earth with each passing day. But these things will come in due time on God's time and not ours.

Besides, what's the point of a new earth that has sin and death? He mine as well just keep this one going if that was the case. That doesn't make sense to me either. If God wants to scrap the earth and start a new one, shouldn't it be a better place instead of the same?

I know these weren't your points. They were TT's. I'm just putting what I've understood from this thread out there.

[Beloved]

Hey Nick,

I read all the responses and I see what you mean.

[Beloved]

Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 02 2009,03:00)

Quote (david @ Aug. 31 2009,10:26) New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967, Vol. XI, p. 1034) acknowledges: “In the final analysis, the Catholic doctrine on purgatory is based on tradition, not Sacred Scripture.” “The church has relied on tradition to support a middle ground between heaven and hell.” —U.S. Catholic, March 1981, p. 7. “What goes on in purgatory is anyone’s guess.”—U.S. Catholic, March 1981, p. 9. We could always ask Dante. A David did you know that the Priest will except money for their prayers and a Mass for the death.  I always thought that was odd, to say the least.  I wonder if they still do so?  But when we belonged that is what they did. For all those poor Souls in  Pergatory!!!! Irene

I heard about that. That's messed up! No where in the bible does it even say to pray for the dead. =\ I mean, that doesn't even make any sense. They're already dead. They had their chances to make things right. It's over for them and that's that.

You should pray for the living and those around you. THEY are the ones that people should be focusing in because they still have days to live, decisions to make, experiences, and chances.

[Beloved]

Oh snap! I didn't see that topic started before! I'll just go read that

[Beloved]

I mean, I'd figure that a New Earth would be very different than this earth has been since civilization. Which supports the saying “There are no new things under the sun”

The earth right now is no different than when people first came on it. The only thing that's changed is the weather, climates, some lands, and technology, and maybe the habitats of a few species of animals.

When Jesus comes back, I'd think it'd make an actual impact on the entire world as we know it.

Every knee has NOT bowed and every tongue has NOT confessed. That is one thing that surely hasn't happened yet.

[Beloved]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 18 2009,05:12)

Hi TT, So why do you finish up preaching to those in Christ? This does not look like the new earth. And of course it isn't

I may not know too much and can't quote scriptures from the back of my mind or know exactly where they are and pinpoint them.

And I don't know about translations.

And I don't know other texts etc. [that aren't the bible] to use to back me up.

But I totally agree with you.

This isn't the new earth. It doesn't look like it.

If this was the New Earth, this is a pretty screwed up and disappointing New Earth.

[Beloved]

Quote (peace2all @ Nov. 17 2009,11:05)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 17 2009,11:02) Quote (peace2all @ Nov. 17 2009,10:37) so if you are married is there certain things you can't do sexually, thats in the bible as a no no . not talking bout beastiality or adultry stuff. sex with each other – oral or pardon my topic anal? thanks If the bible does not forbid it we should not add to what is forbidden.The scriptures say that the marriage bed cannot be defiled. You and your wife belong to each other and whatever the both of you consent to is your private business. The only thing that is forbidden biblically is that a married couple is forbidden to do is to have sexual intercourse during the woman menstrual cycle. i did not know this, who would want to anyway . lol yuck. where that located in the bible anyways

You'd be surprised at how many people actually do that. The numbers are quite high.

The world uses sex during the menstrual cycle as another form of contraceptive. One that doesn't require a condom.

[Beloved]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 13 2009,13:10)

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 13 2009,12:44) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 13 2009,12:30) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 13 2009,12:09) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 13 2009,11:02) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 13 2009,10:18) Quote (Beloved @ Nov. 11 2009,05:33) Okay so this was something that I was really struggling with. And it dawned on me, I didn't even know the definition of fornication to begin with. It makes sense that I can't flee from something I know next to nothing about. Here's the definition from dictionary.com “–noun 1. voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other.” Here's the definition that somebody told me: “Fornication is having sexual intercourse with no emotional attachment”  The person who told me had knowledge of the bible. Basically the second definition implies that its okay to have sex as long as you actually feel something for the person. Though I realized most recently this second definition has to be TOTALLY wrong. The bad part is that, I'd accepted that 2nd definition for a while and just went on doing what I wanted to as long as I felt that I loved the person, if it was anything less than love and my heart wasn't set on it, I wouldn't do it. I need a bit of clarity. How can you even stop yourself from committing it? It seems that with lust particularly, when its in your face, you forget everything that you'd ever learned that says 'don't do it'. What does a biblical dictionary describe fornication to be? I went to look for scriptures and I've found verses that use the word, but my context clues seem to elude me. In the meantime, I've repented and find myself too busy trying to learn the Word and the works of the enemy rather than dwelling on certain thoughts. Another thing that gets really iffy is that some people define sex as anything involving the reproductive organs at all, while some people don't consider oral or even masturbation to be sex at all. Where do you cross the line to where it becomes fornication? Hi Beloved: Before I was born again, sex was my God.  Everything that was said about trying it this way or that way or anything else I wanted to try. After I was born again, thinking I had gained some knowledge of the scriptures, in prayer, I told God I loved my wife with my life, basing this on the scripture that states husbands love you wives as Christ loved the church and gave his life for it.  God spoke to me in an audible voice, saying, “if you love her pray for her”. Our example of loving someone then, is the sacrificial life that Jesus lived obeying God even unto death on the cross.  It isn't just “a feeling”. When you are born again, your sins have been washed away by the blood of our Lord, and God does not remember your past, and so with this, you now have a new beginning, and also knowledge of the truth through God's Word.  If you are having sex with someone to whom you are not married, you don't love that person otherwise you would not touch her. And so, if you are having trouble abstaining, the best advice that I can give not to allow yourself to be put where the circumstances may cause you to be tempted, and that is what is meant with the counsel by the Word of God, “to flee fornication”.  Your body if you are born again, is the temple of the Living God. Oral sex is sexual perversion. I hope this will help you. Love in Christ, Marty Oral sex is a perversion? Where is that written? That can't be true The marriage bed can not be defiled Hi BD: My conscience tells me that it is sexual perversion.  All of this I was doing before I was saved, and the scriptures about marriage tell me what the Lord intended with sex in a marriage. While there may not be a specific scripture that deals with this subject, the following scripture justifies what I have stated in my marriage: NIV Quote 1Th 4:3 It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;   1Th 4:4 that each of you should learn to control his own body [fn] in a way that is holy and honorable,   1Th 4:5 not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God;   Love in Christ, Marty You misunderstand the scriptures just like the priests who forbid themselves marriage onlty to be overwhelmed with lust that in some cases has caused great sin: (1) Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our apostles: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him Compassion and Mercy. But the monasticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them: (We commanded) only the seeking for the Good Pleasure of Allah. but that they did not foster as they should have done. Yet We bestowed, on those among them who believed, their (due) reward, but many of them are rebellious transgressors.   (  سورة الحديد  , Al-Hadid, Chapter #57, Verse #27) God had already listed in the Holy Bible what was considered an abomination or illicit sex acts yet you add your own through your own whim. Why make unlawful what God did not make unlawful. The heathens especially in Rome were taken to Homosexuality, Incest, Orgies and many illicit acts that the Holy Bible forbids but Oral sex is not one of them and neither is masturbation which may be neccesary during the menstrual cycle of someones wife to keep their urges under control if you do not see it in scripture adding it makes it a tradition or commandment of men and not God. Hi BD: I have never enjoyed more satisfying sexual realtions than I have since I was born again and adhere to what my conscience tells me is appropriate. He said at His right hand are pleasures forever more. Love in Christ, Marty I'm not telling you what you should do or prefer I was just saying you should not say what is forbidden unless God has expressly stated such a thing otherwise we make our whims permissa ble and our dislikes we call sins when they are simply what we ourselves choose not to participate in. Many religious people who knock on my door and will say that drinking Alcohol is a “sin” they will even say that Jesus didn't make or drink actual wine this is just an example of how men create false-righteousness even changing the text and meaning of the word of God it is a grievous thing These are things as a Bishop you must avoid doing.

Wow. People came telling you that drinking is a sin? That's funny, considering Jesus did drink WINE. I don't recall him ever drinking large amounts though.

Besides, if I recall the 7 sins, drinking is not one of them nor does drinking make an 8th sin.

People love to create their own sins and spirits to bind.

Anyway, back to the topic!

This is why I'm trying to figure this out:

1. I'm a girl

2. I'm not interested in incest, girls, animals; none of that stuff that I know is just sinful.

So please, I don't think those things need be mentioned because we can all agree that they're just wrong.

Before being saved and becoming a Christian, I dated a girl. The relationship was so bad that I vowed I'd never date the same sex again. I wasn't saved and knew even then that it was nothing but bad news to wrap myself up in.

3. I have a boyfriend who is also a Christian. And we both want things, but when it gets to that point, I'm the first to steer us out of that direction by changing the subject or whatever. We used to do things, but we stopped after attending sermons and for weeks at EVERY sermon I kept hearing “Flee from fornication. Don't do it.” etc. So eventually it went up into to my noggin.

I assumed fornication was any and all types of sexual behavior and acts based on what I read in dictionaries.

I decided it was best to just not do anything at all, especially till I found out what the bible has to say about sex. We're still steady and content, I'm NOT married. The issue is not going to be brought up between us for a while, because he's far away and will be for months, and I trust that he's as loyal as I am.

I'm trying to figure out whether or not we can do anything. But I DON'T want to have one foot in the world and the other tip toeing towards being a real Christian. I want my relationship to be strictly as God wants it to be.

So, to my understanding, most of the responses are leaning towards the fact that we can't do anything until married.

If that's the case, I can hold off. If he can't, then either he'd better man up or pack up, because I've made up my mind that no man will keep me from a relationship with God. Not anymore.

[Beloved]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 12 2009,08:51)

Quote (Beloved @ Nov. 12 2009,01:28) Speaking on condemning, I don't mean you personally. I've just seen many Christians do this. How do you define condemnation? God instructs us to rebuke our brothers and sisters for their sins or to be held guilty. Too many accuse those that justly rebuke them of condemning them in order to justify their sin.   That is not how Jesus teaches us to respond to a just rebuke.  Instead we should fight the desire to defend ourself and instead except the rebuke hoping that it serves its purpose to bring about a harvest of righteousness. If the rebuke is unjust then another response may well be appropriate. Changing one's ways and doing right is not easy but it is possible as God will be with you as you truly persevere in seeking him.  I know that I have had many lessons as God has worked on my stubborn heart.  I also know that he has moved mountains in changing my heart.  I am confident he will do it for you as well if you seek him with all your heart.

Ah. I personally think there's a difference between letting someone know when they've done something wrong and not listening to them at all and shouting radical accusations.

That is how I define condemnation.

Acting radical towards another, not even bothering to listening to what others have to say. Practically screaming and ranting at people because they've told you something that you personally don't like. Continuously pointing the finger of blame and offering no solution, just accusing.

[Beloved]

Speaking on condemning, I don't mean you personally. I've just seen many Christians do this.

[Beloved]

Quote (Beloved @ Nov. 12 2009,04:40)

Though I was using the true story to back up that people use fornication as one of the main reasons to hurt others, even if they don't commit it.

What I mean by saying this is, people use fornication as a mean reason to condemn others.

But who are we to judge when God is the judge?

[Beloved]

Quote (Gene @ Nov. 12 2009,03:43)

Beloved………Where did i say “God hated the person” no God loves the person that is why He hates the (ACT) of fornication, because of what it produces in the persons life. This false relationship causes great harm and grief, some people even commit suicide because of the disillusionment involved.  As far as the example you gave if the young lady know her future husband wanted a virgin , she should have told him long before the marriage. A good relationship is a honest and forth right one, be honest and expect those in a relationship to be honest with you also, (NO) in fact demand it,  why give yourself over to falsehood and suffer as a result of it. You have every right to expect honesty in your relationships,  an intimate  relationship is (NOT) a Game of human hearts. To fornicate is to live a lie rather with GOD or Man. A fornicator sin against his or her own self and will suffer instability because of it.   IMO peace and love to you and your…………….gene

I know you didn't say God hated the person. I was only asking if He would. And now I clearly see that he doesn't.

I remembered that there's a difference between what God feels as our Father, and consequences to our own actions.

The young lady didn't know, which was why I brought it up. It's very true, they'd have skipped a lot of their issues if the question was asked a lot earlier than after they planned their wedding. That's what I thought when I first heard of it. Though I was using the true story to back up that people use fornication as one of the main reasons to hurt others, even if they don't commit it.

People do most of these things to themselves.

Most of the time it is falsehood. Especially in the times that we live in today. You can hardly trust anyone in this world. Which is a reason I choose to trust the Father and His son.

Fornication is also used in the context of talking about idol worshipers too?

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