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[Bastian]

Hi Alta,

I enjoyed reading your post. Anytime I question the type of things that you are questioning I always look to the Master for answers. We know that our Lord was tempted as we are. Yet, he never sinned how was able to do this? He always did his Father’s will, not his own, even unto death.

Anytime we are outside of the will of God, we are doing what we will. Man’s way leads to sin, and sin leads to death. I found it interesting that some of your friends do not believe in God but they do believe in Satan. Humanity doesn’t give itself enough credit, left to their own devices they do not need a supernatural adversary. The lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and wanting to be gods, nothing has changed since the beginning of time.

Quote: All in all I don't see where a person is practising anything close to free will. When Eve ate from the tree of knowledge was she practicing free will or was she fooled into doing someone else's will? Saying that someone is practising free will is not saying they have the ability to make a choice. It is saying that they have the ability to direct the outcome of the choices they make. If you believe you have this ability then tell me the day you will physically die. Free will is something I have determined satan uses to keep people fooled and also to make them feel guilty and unworthy.

Eve was doing exactly what she wanted to do. Eve broke the God’s law. God had commanded that she not eat from the tree of knowledge, she broke covenant with Him. She was not doing anyone’s will but her own.

Having free will is the ability to make choices that is what free will is. You do direct the outcome. Read the book of proverbs. What does being able to see into the future have to do with making good, and bad choices today? If I decide to go out and steal a car. I know it is against the law therefore, if I am caught, I will go to jail. I am using my free will to make a choice to steal a car, I know what the outcome will be, and it is not good. Everything was created for, and by God, and for His God purpose, not for the adversary. You give the adversary too much power. Don’t you believe that greater is He that is in you, then he that is in the world.

[Bastian]

continued:

Again I want to restate that Genesis 1:2 is six literal days.

I am going to start with the seventh day

On the seventh day, God sanctifies his creation. Declares it very good and rests. Instead of using the standard Judeo-christian interpretation of sanctify. Let us us the word sanctify as God might have intended it. Sanctify means free of sin. God literally say this creation is free of sin.

After creating perfection that is wholly very good, Holy God rests.

Mark 3

He entered again the synagogue; and a man was there whose hand was withered
They were watching him to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath so that they might accuse him.
He said to the man with the withered hand, Get up and come forward!
And he said to them, ” Is it lawful to do good on the Sabbath, to save a life or to kill? But they kept silent.

John 5:15
The man went away, and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well for this reasoning the Jews were persecuting Jesus because he was doing these things on the Sabbath.

But he answered them, My Father is working until now, and I myself am working.

God is kind and full of mercy he made Sabbath for man to rest his flesh, and to have time with God.

Genesis on the third day sprouts forth vegetation. This is amazing because the Sun is not created until day four.

On day five God creates fish and fowl.

Early in day six God creates land animals. Later in the same day, he creates his masterpiece humanity. In His image According to Our likeness. In the Image of God, He created HIM; male and female, He created them.

God blessed them; and God said to them, be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.

Psalm 8
When I consider your heavens, the work of Your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have ordained.
What is man that you take thought of him or the son of man that you Care for him?
Yet you have made him a litlle lower then God
and you Grown him with glory and majesty!
You make him rule over the works of Your hands; you have put all things under his feet, all sheep, and oxen, and also the beast of the field
The birds of the heaven and the fish of the sea,
Whatever passes through the paths of the sea

I am getting tired of typing see hebrews 2:5

Genesis 29 God said behold I have given you every plant yeilding seed, and fruit. Notice no restriction, aka tree of knowledge.

Jeremiah 4
I looked on the earth and behold, it was formless and void;
and the heavens and they had no light
I looked on the mountains, and behold, the were quaking
and the hills moved to and fro
I looked and behold there was no man,
and the birds of the heavens had fled

Later B

[Bastian]

Help those who are hungry, help those who are afflicted, stop preaching and be God on earth. (Ad)

Yes those are certainly things that we should be doing. We should be good stewards God’s representatives on the earth. Your idea was suggested in Genesis in the garden. It didn't happen then, and it will not happen now. Geez, it never changes. I will make myself like the most High.

Stop your belief in hell and make heaven on earth

Hell is a neo platonic philosophy. People that study the scriptures do not promote a place that does not exist. There will be heaven on earth in the Kingdom.

All dogs go to heaven but all human beings go straight to hell-ohm that is right if they do not except Jesus in their heart right? This is evil it is control!

I really don’t think dogs go to heaven considering that even believers go to the grave until the resurrection. All people go to hell when they die. Hell is the grave.
Accepting Jesus into your heart is not the gospel.

My definition of heaven is to serve help and heal not just this lifetime but for all eternity.(Ad)

That is very noble. How are you going to go about doing this, since you are made from dust, and to dust you will return?

Gods will for all eternity that is what heaven mean to me.

?

My anger is people who believe that Jesus is the only way-this is evil.
Man needs to understand who and what he is before believing. The Moslems belief in Allah is so strong that they are willing to die for their beliefs. All religion has done to some degree is bring death, pain, misery when it is one way. Please understand that not all religions are evil-people who are extreme in their beliefs. Most Christian’s belief that Jesus died for their sin that is what makes Christianity. What if he didn't? What if Mohammad really did preach that women and mean are equal in the eye of God? If you really love God, would you not want to learn about Jesus life, Moses life, Mohammad life, Buda life, and all other spiritual teachers? If it tells you, it is only this way it is evil because it wants control this is the teaching of the false God called EGO. I will probably be taken off the log because any time truth comes darkness wills it out with false ego.

My anger is with people that do not research facts before they post on message boards to lambaste other people’s beliefs. Make inflammatory doctrinal statements, when it is obvious they have never cracked open a bible. Moreover, think they are making a profound statements when they carry on like a kid having a temper tantrum. The only ego on this board my friend that is glaringly on display is yours.

Fact, All religion has brought about misery on humankind. Faith in God is not a religion.

Fact, the Hebrews were known as the people of the book. Why, because they were the only people to write down their experiences with their God Yahweh. No religion before had ever done so.

Mohammed came along centuries after Jesus, the New Testament had already been written. Now let us pretend that the Old and the New Testament did not exist.

How would we know about Yahweh? Now let us remove Yah from the equation. What is left?

The truth the you are so found of proclaiming is your truth. I do not proclaim my truth but the word of God. Let God be true and every man a liar.

I wouldn’t mind having a discussion, or even a friendly debate about faith but on a factual basis, not based on your emotions.

B

[Bastian]

Hi all how have you been doing!

Ad, I am going to copy your statements, and answer them.

What is evil is belief. (ad)

If belief is evil, then what one believes, or believes in is evil, therefore what you believe must also be evil.

Knowing is much better would not you agree! (ad)

I believe it is going to rain soon, I know when it is grey and overcast this is usually what happens.

So far, what you have said does not make one bit of sense.

The truth is that man is willing to die for his beliefs and convictions. (ad)

Yes, some are that is true.

Matthew 10

Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.
17″But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you n their synagogues;
18and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles.

Not take responsibity for his own sins but say that another will free you of your responsibility or your truth! (ad)

I can only speak for Christians. Christians take responsibility for their sins when they repent. If you are alluding to Jesus the Christ, he does not take responsibility for anyone’s sin.

True salvation is earning it, not by another.(ad)

Ephesians 2
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast

God does not put anyone in front of you it is you and your creator.

I am not sure what this means. Does this mean people, like Moses, Jesus, Mohammed?

What if the truth is that Jesus did not die on the cross and lived a full and healthy life. I am brining this up because many would choose not to seek truth. (ad)

If you have proof of this, I am most certainly willing to look at it.

Truth is very difficult it is the understanding of who you really are this means body, mind, soul and even the spirit. Yes spirit!
(ad)
Mind and body is the soul. They are not separate entities.

Yes spirit! The age of the true Messiah and one-day humankind might wake up and regain his truth.

Man does not have a spirit. He is a soul. Humanity cannot awaken to believe in something they do not possess.

Jesus, Moses, and Mohammad none wants you to follow them that were not the plan they want you to be greater than they want all of them combined

There an abundance of scripture the refutes what you say about Moses, and Jesus.

continued:

[Bastian]

Quote (kenrch @ Jan. 23 2006,22:56)

Kenrch, I knew that My reply to your qoute

Kernch,

I knew that

Quote (Guest @ Jan. 20 2006,20:57)

you forgot a comma between the words; word and i and you needlessly added a comma between the words; along and go.:p  what is your educational back round?

HO NOoooooooooooooo!  He's back!

My reply to your qoute

   

My reply to Saxton,

There is no need for a comma between word and I. True I could have used one. However, the pause was not so significant that without a comma the reader would not be able to continue reading without backtracking to the original intent.

The word, and, is connecting two independent clauses. When connecting two clauses one uses a comma before the word and.

English is not my native language.

have a nice day

I messed up using the quote thingy. Aha! I'm learing I got it right this time, I think

[Bastian]

Sultan,

I do not have time to go into it now. I believe that the scriptures tell us that he, Jesus the Christ is the first of the New Creation.

I am still confused by what you believe. At first I thought we disagreed, then I thought we agreed, now I don't know.

You agreed that the word was not a he, if Jesus pre-existed as the word, what form did the word have? This is where I am becoming confused:p

later

p.s. I believe the logos is God's purpose, plan, action, etc. This became a human. It was not outside of God as an other entity.
ok bye. Gotstago

[Bastian]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 25 2006,06:41)

Quote (Sultan @ Jan. 25 2006,00:02) Yet the scripture clearly affirms that the Word was God, Speaking of the nature of the Word. a god describes the Word as being a person, and I don't see that in the context, and neither do the majority of translations that interpret this text outside of a trinitarian context. Hi Sultan, Here are the two prominent NT passages dealing with Christ's existence pre-incarnation: JOHN 1 (NASB) 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.9There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. Personal pronouns are used in reference to the preincarnate Christ. Personal pronouns designate that it is a person that John is describing. Also consider Phil 2:5-7. PHILIPPIANS 2 5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. In this passage, not only is a personal pronoun used of Christ pre His incarnation but He is described as having existed in the form (Morphe) of God. Can a non-person do this? Linguistically, the Word described in John 1 and Phil 2 could only have been a person. What are your thoughts? Be well.

The word logos was translated “he” when in fact the Greek word logos, though masculine in gender, is neither male nor female. William Tyndale, who provided the English translation that formed the basis for the King James Bible translated logos as “it”, not “he” The word was with God in the same sense that wisdom was what God. It is a personification. The translators choose a feminine pronoun for wisdom. Hebrew and Greek assign gender to nouns. For example
In the Hebrew language the word menorah, is feminine. The alter is masculine. In Greek, teaching is feminine, and a leather strap is masculine.

When translated into English we would not say, “Where is my leather belt”? He is in the hall closet.
The gender of a pronoun is determined by the gender of the noun. The word Spirit in Hebrew is feminine and must have feminine pronouns. Thus, if I were to build a theology based on the gender of nouns and pronouns, I would find myself in an awkward situation when the Spirit of God changes genders from the Old Testament, to the New Testament.

[Bastian]

Kenrch,

the above smiles were directed to you, not the the rest of the post. I have learned english well. Maybe now I can teach myself how to post on a message board correctly ah duh

[Bastian]

Quote (kenrch @ Jan. 23 2006,22:56)

Quote (Guest @ Jan. 20 2006,20:57) you forgot a comma between the words; word and i and you needlessly added a comma between the words; along and go.:p  what is your educational back round? HO NOoooooooooooooo!  He's back! There is no need for a comma between word and I. True I could have used one. However, the pause was not so significant that without a comma the reader would not be able to continue reading without backtracking to the original intent. The word, and, is connecting two independent clauses. When connecting two clauses one uses a comma before the word and. English is not my native language. have a nice day

 

[Bastian]

Jesus had his Father’s nature. That did not make him a divine being. Jesus Christ had a perfect human nature the way God intended. Jesus truly did reflect a man made in the image of God. We humans need to make Jesus something he is not. It is difficult for us to believe that a human being could be perfect because of our own shortcomings, and imperfections. We have the nature of the first Adam whom did not remain sinless.

If Jesus was born a divinity, or divine, I am not sure how you are using the term. He would not have had to receive the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

John 14:10

Do you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own initiative, but the Father abiding in me does His works.
Then he goes on to say if you do not believe that about me, then in the least believe because of the works themselves.
Truly, I say to you he who believes in me the works I do he will do also, and greater works then these he will do.

Jesus had the ability to sin. God, not he himself, performed his miracles. That makes him one hundred percent human.

Man as the image bearer of God finds complete fulfillment it the glorification of Christ.

All who believe in him will one day be made like him.

Isaiah 53:10

He will see his offspring and prolong his days.

Their will be enmity between your seed, and her seed.

He will bear much fruit after his kind.

The last Adam became a live giving spirit after his resurrection and glorification.

The book of Hebrews speaks of the Christ in the present tense.

Now he is the exact image of God.

Colossians
1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Adam made from the dust of the ground was the first born of the old creation.

Jesus the Christ the second Adam at his resurrection became the first born of the new creation.

Was Jesus a man? Yes, a unique man, there was only one other like him, and he failed were our Lord succeeded. Is he still a mere man? Hardly, He is highly exalted. On the earth, and in the Heavens, only the Almighty Himself does not bow the knee to our Lord, and Savior Jesus the Christ.

[Bastian]

Quote (soxan @ Jan. 20 2006,07:02)

ah ddd avid, thats not nice, betcha u have a big nose,  pinocchio  ! remember how i waited and let u guys ridicule me, and allowed u guys to prove yourselves fools. remember pinnnnnnnnnnhead? and to think a loud mouth such as yourself debating others on scholarly matters still uphold to a flawed and unethical translation! pinhead! big-nose!  go get a nose reduction!

I hadn't read this when I wrote about your arrested development in the other forum. This proves my point.

This is lovely, really, keep up the good work.

[Bastian]

In you vernacular, I am a bull shitter because I don’t believe in a triune Godhead. I see. You are both intellectually challenged, and emotionally stinted, I would venture to say somewhere around the age of five or six.

I am not coming down to your level by hurling insults and unfound accusations. My statements are based on observations.

Only a person with arrested development becomes angry for no reason, other then a doctrinal difference.

Punctuations and proper grammar usage is important. Spelling correctly is also recommended when communicating and articulating in written form

This is how your post should read.

True I do on occasion use words that common people as me use. But, unlike you, I do have integrity, bull shitter. Since bull shitter is not a real word I don’t know if it is one or two words.

Myself is a reflexive pronoun. Wait in your case this might apply. If you speak as well as you write you probably do spend a lot of time with you, common as dirt that you are. Hey, you said so yourself, oh excuse myself. LOL…………..

Therefore, why don’t you run along, and go watch Rambo for the twentieth time, or whatever it is that you do, and leave the doctrinal discussions to the adults.

[Bastian]

Is it possible for you to string two sentences together without insults, name calling, or using profanity?

I know you haven't got a clue, people like you never do. Go to the other forums you posted in and check out your posts.

[Bastian]

Already it has become evident that this board needs Nick to keep things going, and flowing, even if some do not like, nor agree with what he has to say.

I also would like to know what made him decide to leave.
If it is because of personal responsiblities, that is one thing, but if he is discourged about his ministry. I would like to talk with him about reconsidering.

[Bastian]

If an atheist does good, feed the poor, help the sick etc. is that person saved? If a godless person can do good, how much more is expected of someone that claims God is their Father. If one is truly a child of God one cannot help but do good works.

[Bastian]

Adam,

Don’t waste your precious time. I stopped posting in this forum after I posted the above, and the response I received from berean was “yashua is the Aleph and the Tav, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.

Eliyah, Kernch, what is truth, others, and I have given ample scripture to back up our position. If this was a court of law, the preponderance of the evidence that Jesus is not the Almighty God is staggering. Not only does berean not show us in scripture why he takes the position he does, he totally ignores pertinent questions asked of him by other posters, and answers questions, with a question.

I have my opinion on why he behaves thus. Nevertheless, for now will keep that to my self.

B.

[Bastian]

Is it usual for Nick to not monitor his board for such a long time?

I have been posting for a very short time. I am not familiar with his habits.

I do hope everything is okay with him.

[Bastian]

Yes he is. What is he the first and the last the beginning and the end of ?

[Bastian]

[Bastian]

berean,

You stated there is no savior but Yaweh. Yaweh is savior.

Saviour, or Savior
One that saves from danger or destruction
Deliverer
Rescue, save, ransom, reclaim, redeem

There were many Saviours and deliverers spoken of in the Bible. They do not all refer to God.

The book of Judges is about the (saviors) deliverers if you will, of Israel.

Judges 3:8-10
9And when the children of Israel cried unto the LORD, the LORD raised up a deliverer to the children of Israel, who delivered them, even Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother.

Judges 3:14-16

14So the children of Israel served Eglon the king of Moab eighteen years.
15But when the children of Israel cried unto the LORD, the LORD raised them up a deliverer, Ehud the son of Gera, a Benjamite, a man lefthanded: and by him the children of Israel sent a present unto Eglon the king of Moab.

The salvation spoken of in the Old Testament for the Nation of Israel is not to be confused with our eternal salvation through our Lord Jesus the Christ.

God was the Nation Israel’s Savior, Salvation, and redeemer. He saved them from the hostile gentile Nations. From their enemies, from difficulty in life.

2 Samuel 22
1And David spake unto the LORD the words of this song in the day that the LORD had delivered him out of the hand of all his enemies, and out of the hand of Saul:
2And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;
3The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.

Psalm 18
1I will love thee, O LORD, my strength.
2The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
3I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.

Psalm 40:16-18

16Let all those that seek thee rejoice and be glad in thee: let such as love thy salvation say continually, The LORD be magnified.
17But I am poor and needy; yet the Lord thinketh upon me: thou art my help and my deliverer; make no tarrying, O my God.

God delivered the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt He was there deliverer. He used Moses. Moses was a savior for the Israelites.

When the Israelites went into captivity in Babylon they went after other gods. Yet, He did not turn His back on them because He did not want be defamed nor share His glory with an other ( the most misinterpreted scripture by trinitarians, and now you, I suppose) He was speaking of other gods. Not His precious son who earned His position, and had every right to share in the Glory of God.

2 Kings 13
4And Jehoahaz besought the LORD, and the LORD hearkened unto him: for he saw the oppression of Israel, because the king of Syria oppressed them.
5(And the LORD gave Israel a saviour, so that they went out from under the hand of the Syrians: and the children of Israel dwelt in their tents, as beforetime.
6Nevertheless they departed not from the sins of the house of Jeroboam, who made Israel sin, but walked therein: and there remained the grove also in Samaria.)

Hosea 13:3-5
3Therefore they shall be as the morning cloud and as the early dew that passeth away, as the chaff that is driven with the whirlwind out of the floor, and as the smoke out of the chimney.
4Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.
5I did know thee in the wilderness, in the land of great drought.
Again He is not talking about eternal salvation. But salvatioin from enemies and that He is the only God that can save them from calamity.

obadiah 1:20 young
20And the removed of this force of the sons of Israel, That [is with] the Canaanites unto Zarephat, And the removed of Jerusalem that [is] with the Sepharad, Possess the cities of the south.
21And gone up have saviours on mount Zion, To judge the mount of Esau, And the kingdom hath been to Jehovah!'

king james
20And the captivity of this host of the children of Israel shall possess that of the Canaanites, even unto Zarephath; and the captivity of Jerusalem, which is in Sepharad, shall possess the cities of the south.
21And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD's.

New american standard
20And the exiles of this host of the sons of Israel,
Who are among the Canaanites as far as Zarephath,
And the exiles of Jerusalem who are in Sepharad
Will possess the cities of the Negev.
21The deliverers will ascend Mount Zion
To judge the mountain of Esau,
And the kingdom will be the LORD'S.

you qouted Isaiah 44

The Messiah Yahweh spoke of was He Himself who would come into the world to save His people from their sins.

Isaiah 44
6 Thus says Yahweh, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Yahweh of Hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God. 7 Who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I established the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and that shall happen, let them declare. 8 Don't fear, neither be afraid: haven't I declared to you of old, and shown it? You are my witnesses. Is there a God besides me? Indeed, there is not. I don't know any Rock.

I don't see it. Where in Isaiah 44 does Yaweh say that he is going to become a man, and redeem all of mankind from their sins?

You stated that Jesus was dead in the grave but alive in Heaven.
c'mon you're having a go at us aren't you. I have never heard anything like it, ever.

One cannot be finite and infinite at the same time. Jesus was not the Father. Jesus said many times in scripture he was God's son. Why do you not believe his words? Jesus also had a God. God does not have a God.

[Author]

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