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Found this while searching. From Zarathushtrian Theodicy
:- The other straightforward answer is to deny that the God is all-powerful. This was the answer of Sassanian Zoroastrianism. By the Sassanian period, Ahura Mazda and Spenta Mainyu had become regarded as the same entity, Ormuzd. Angra Mainya, the dark twin of Spenta Mainyu, now as Ahriman, became elevated to the same stature as the God, Ormuzd. Ahriman was nearly as powerful as Ormuzd. In time and with man’s help, Ormuzd would prevail, but here and now Ormuzd was not sufficiently powerful to eliminate evil.
Early Christianity, being greatly influenced by Zoroastrianism, frequently, though inconsistently, invoked this solution. Satan, an angel who was originally God’s attorney general, becomes seen as the God’s adversary. This belief is still held by most fundamentalist Protestant Christians, who generally avoid noting that allowing the free reign of such a rogue angel cannot be a good act on the part of the God.
No, but they are written by humans, just like the bible. There is nothing anointed about the bible unless you mean it is anointed with the blood of slaughtered enemies of the Jews.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2008,10:02) Hi KJ,
You will need the Spirit of God to discern what is of God or just the minds of foolish men.
Who are you trying to convince with this 'spirit of god' trump card of yours? Do you hear voices or see visions?Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2008,17:02) Hi KJ,
You will need the Spirit of God to discern what is of God or just the minds of foolish men.
And let me guess…the spirit of God says only the bible is the words of God, all else is of men. Right?How brutally convenient.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2008,19:41) Hi KJ,
What discernment do you have on the matter?
We have had some who find Harry Potter inspired.
Just the discernment given to all humans who have an open mind and who do not ignore fallacies to hold on to some belief out of fear of some supposed divine wrath.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2008,12:00) Hi Stu,
The Spirit is as a wind.
Then is it voices, visions or breezes that tell you the bible is the book to read; that affirm that you are not wrong about what would otherwise be a guess?Stuart
Excerpts from Influence of Zarathushtrian faith on the Abrahamic faiths of Judaism, Christianity and Islam
- The Jews found many congenial elements and similar ideas in their faith. Both had many common beliefs such as belief in one God, coming of a Messiah and a strict code of behavior and ethics. The Jews had progressed much in their ethical and spiritual conceptions after their release from the Babylonian captivity. This progress happened to be for the most part in just those doctrines which were commonly held by millions of Zarathushtis among who they lived. Perhaps the foremost among these is the belief in Future Life. Those portions of the Old Testament which were written before the Exile scarcely mention it. They knew no reward for their deeds other than what they found on this earth. Their hopes were centered on this world and prosperity in this life.
The Exile, however, made a great difference in the Jewish thinking in this regard, for it is during this period and thereafter that we find for the first time in their recorded history the expression of hope in the other world. There is an entirely new note struck in the words such as these in the later Isaiah:
“Let thy dead live, let thy dead body arise; Awake and sing, ye that dwell in the dust; for thy dew is the dew of the heroes, and the earth shall cast forth the shades.” Canon Cheyne, a great Old Testament scholar in his book The Origin of the Psalter mentions: “The threefold division of sins into those of thought, word and deed in Ps. XVII 3-5 is thoroughly Zarathushtrian. …A knowledge of this great religion is necessary to the full equipment of an Old Testament scholar,….. …had it (Judaism) not come into contact with Zarathushtrianism, Israel would historically speaking have struggled in vain to satisfy its greatest religious aspirations.”
Also, in Daniel:
“And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Even after the Exile this lesson about the Immortality of the Soul was not assimilated by all Jews, notably by the Sadducees. But, the people who professed this new doctrine were called the Pharisees, meaning Persians. Zarathushtrian influence on the Dead Sea Scrolls has been unanimously accepted by historians.
In the book of Tobit, we have an allusion to “Seven Spirits” – Amesha Spentas. The Seven Spirits are also mentioned in Zechariah IV,10 and this is further expanded in Rev. V, 6. The book of Genesis seems to have been influenced by the first chapter of Vendidaad. The Asmodeus (Asmodai) of the Book of Tobit is probably Aeshma-daeva of the Avesta. He was the demon of wrath and an opponent of the Amesha Spentas of the Gathas and in Tobit, he fights with the same Seven Spirits.
Various other scholars, W.R. Alger, Von Bohlen (German), Dr. Martin Haug, Rev. Dr. Lawrence Mills, W.D.Whitney, J.E.C. Schmidt, Michaelis, Doderlin, Horst & Hufnagel, Miles Dawson and many many others have testified to the fact that the change that took place in Judaism after the Exile under the influence of Zarathushtrian contact was so great as to make it a new religion almost. We see a full evidence of it in the Book of Job. The Jewish Prophets such as the second Isaiah, Daniel and the writers of many of the later Psalms, and above all Jesus Christ were in many respects nearer to Zarathushtrianism than to pre-exilic Judaism. It is through Judaism that Christianity afterwards received an important influence from Zarathushtrianism.
“So it was out of a Judaism enriched by five centuries of contact with Zarathushtrianism that Christianity arose – a new religion with roots thus in two ancient faiths, one Semitic, the other Iranian. Doctrines taught perhaps a millennium and a half earlier by Zarathushtra began in this way to reach fresh hearers; but again, as in Judaism, they lost some of the logic and coherence by their adoption into another creed; for the teachings of the Iranian prophet about Creation, Heaven and Hell and the Days of Judgment, were less intellectually coherent when part of a religion which proclaimed the existence of one Omnipotent God, whose unrestricted rule was based not on justice but on love. They continued nevertheless, even in this new setting, to exert their powerful influence on men’s strivings to be good.” Zarathushtrians by Dr. Mary Boyce.
The three Magis that came to see Christ were Zarathushtrian Priests. Zarathushtis had a belief in the coming of the savior, born of a virgin mother, at least a millennium and a half before Jesus was born. Most scholars agree that Jesus was not born on December 25, which was reckoned as the winter solstice in the Julian calendar. The Romans celebrated it very fervently as the nativity of Mithra, the Sun God that they had adopted from Iran. Mithraism was very popular among the Romans and many relics of Mithra temples found all over Europe bear testimony to it. It was a corrupted and distorted form of Zarathushtrianism. But, even in its corrupt form it stood for certain basic values such as truth, Justice, Brotherhood, Kindness and loyalty, which inspired allegiance among millions of Romans and Europeans.
The only issue I have with the above is much of the latter Zoroastrian beliefs that made it into Judaism and Christianity (to a much greater extent) were likely not taught by Zarathushtra himself, but those who came after him.
More from Zarathushtra – Source of the Judeo-Christian Heritage
- We use words such as ‘satan,’ ‘paradise,’ ‘amen’ almost daily without knowing, however, their Zarathushti origin. We all know of the three magi that predicted the birth of Christ. So sad, however, is the state of our ignorance about this religion, that few are today aware that these magi from the East were none other than Zarathushti priests. Zarathushtis can thus proudly claim that they heralded Christianity to the world. Zarathushtis had a belief in the coming of a Savior, born of a virgin mother, centuries ago [Vendidad 19.5 and Zamyad Yasht 19.92].
Among Zarathushtra’s major contributions to our present-day religious heritage, was a belief in an all-wise, all-powerful and eternal God, free will, heaven and hell, individual judgement, resurrection, last judgment, life everlasting for the reunited soul and body, the coming of a savior, strong ethics based on good thoughts, words and deeds, and equal rights and respect for women.
How well Zarathushtra’s doctrines shaped the conduct of his followers and how they in turn shaped the course of history is, however, most evident in the conduct of the most powerful emperors Iran has ever produced, namely Cyrus and Darius, who are also the greatest empire-builders known to recorded history. It was King Cyrus who freed the Jews from Babylonian captivity.
Zarathushti doctrines became disseminated throughout the Persian empire which extended from India to the Mediterranean. The Jews who were one of these peoples found many congenial elements and similar ideas in their faith. Both had many common beliefs such as belief in one God, coming of a Messiah and a strict code of behavior and ethics. The Jews had progressed much in their ethical and spiritual conceptions during the Babylonian captivity. This progress happened to be for the most part in just those doctrines which were commonly held by millions of Zarathushtis among whom they lived.
Excerpts from Interaction of the religion of Zarathushtra with other religions
- Keeping in view the newly codified laws, let us turn to the Jews. The construction of the temple, begun in the time of King Cyrus, was completed during the reign of Darius the Great (522-486 BCE). The episode of Esther and Mordecai occurred during the days of Xerxes (486-465 BCE). The commissioning of Ezra the Scribe to administer the codified Jewish law, and the appointment of Nehemiah, the royal cupbearer, as the Governor of Judah was done by Artaxerxes I (464-424 BCE). Nehemiah rebuilt the Jerusalem wall. The enforcement of laws meant a detailed prescription for “do's and don'ts.” These actions helped the Jews to administer themselves under a unified order promoted by the patronage of the Persians for another 100 years.
The Old Testament is a collection of the books concerning the Jewish people only. Yet we find, for the first and the last time, an alien people praised in them. Cyrus the Great is mentioned as the “shepherd of Lord” and his “anointed (Messiah or Christ)” (Isaiah 44:28, 45:1). The name of Cyrus occurs 23 times, Darius 25 times, Xerxes 30 times, Artaxerxes 15 times, Medes and Media 21 times, Persians and Persian 37 times, and Parthians once. Several sections of the Old Testament are dated from the reigns of the Achaemenian kings.
We see a split in the Jewish community following the Achaemenian period: The Sadducees and Pharisees. The Sadducees of priestly descent regarded the five books of the Torah as the only sacred scriptures. They rejected the oral law. The Pharisees were the educated laymen who often acted as teachers of the Jewish Law and as scribes. They acknowledged both the written law of the five books of the Torah and the oral law later written down as the Mishnah. They believed in the resurrection of the dead, heaven and hell, angels, demons, and the future coming of the Messiah. It is, more or less, the Pharisee phase of Judaism that has survived as the Orthodox Judaism.
In the post-exilic Judaism, God is more universal than being mostly a deity of covenant. The snake, which was cursed to go on its belly, eat dust and bruise humans, and have its head bruised by them, evolved into devils and demons. There is a clearer notion of eschatology and about going to heaven or hell according to one's good or bad deeds.
All these things were already there in then evolving and formalizing Zoroastrianism. Ahura Mazda God of universe, Anghra Mainyu his evil adversary, the Amesha Spentas and the yazatas which would translate into Archangels and angels, resurrection, last judgement, heaven, and hell.
Christianity was founded during the Roman era when the Zoroastrian Parthians ruled in the next-door Iran. It also saw the fully formalized form of Zoroastrianism of the Sassanian Theocracy for over six centuries. Christianity is more specific about God, the rebel Devil or Satan, the archangels, angels, and eschatology with its paradise, hell and purgatory. For the first time, a date of birth is recorded and celebrated. It is the birth of Christ. Scriptural records show that Zarathushtra is the first human being whose birthday was hailed, and Herodotus writes that the Achaemenians celebrated their birthdays. Birthday celebration is a Zoroastrian tradition. Christ's birth also reminds one of the Wise Men, the Magi being led by astronomy to pay their respects to the newborn mothered by a virgin. Virgin birth of the promised savior is a prophecy made in later Zoroastrianism. The presence of three Zoroastrian priests, instead of Jewish sages or Roman elders, is an important sign of the interaction.
In return we see the effects of the Semitic religions on Zoroastrianism. (1) Zarathushtra, who searched and realized God and the Divine Principles of Life through his mental search, is made into a “Prophet” sent by God. (2) Early Zoroastrianism celebrated its festivals in combination with earlier festivals based on the agricultural and economic living of the Iranians. They were the six seasonal festival of Gâhânbârs. Later, the calendar underwent a change. Its months and days were named after certain divinities in the Egyptian fashion. Fifteen festivals are celebrated on the days when the names of the months and the days coincide. (3) The canonization of the Bible by the Christian authority in the west had the Sassanian priesthood to screen, collate and canonize the collected writings. (4) Many matters borrowed by other religions are borrowed back with their added colors. These include the incarnated Godhead, angels and demons, and comforts of heaven, tortures in hell, certain pollution and purification rules, spells, and prophecy. (5) Zoroastrians prayed at home or in open enclosures. They learned to build temples for themselves from their western neighbors whom they had helped to rebuild their temples. This stabilized the priestly class in the temple tradition, a centralizing and rewarding tradition.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2008,15:52) Hi KJ,
Now you have lost your faith you have become an avid supporter of occult powers?
Are you a moderator, or a troll? Your posts lately seen to be the type to incite argument which is typical of an Internet troll.In any case, I am merely showing that Zoroastrianism likely influenced Judaism to some extent, but seems to have had more influence on Christianity. After all, in Christianity, God is love while in the OT He was seen mostly as a God of justice. The idea of a loving beneficial God was evident in Zoroastrianism.
Much of this influence springs from the latter form of Zoroastrianism, not that which was taught by the original founder, Zarathushtra. His Gathas do not speak much of demons or another being who is in opposition to God. This comes from what Zoroastriansm became.
Tell me what is “occultic” about Zoroastrianism? Much of the same stuff you find in that is plainly evident in Christianity.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2008,15:57) Hi kj,
Like a lonely foghorn far in the mists you offer nothing but the sadness of your own life.
I will have to report your trollish behavior to heaven. Harassment is not tolerated on this site.
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