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Nick,
Do tell me how Christianity can make similar claims. By words taken from scripture? I'm sure if I knew the other texts, I could provide similar “proof”. But here are some passages from the Gathas if you require such “proof”.
- Y31.2 – Tell me, O Mazda –
That which Thou shalt bestow by Thy Spirit and Fire,
The blessing Thou shalt assign through Truth for
those acting with discernment,
The Holy Law for their enlightenment.
Give it in Thy own inspired wordY33.13 – With Thy divine grace, O Lord.
Make wide the vision of my mind;
Make manifest Thy everlasting attributes;
Make known the blessings of Thy Kingdom of
Heaven, and the joyous recompense of
the Good Mind,
O Holy Armaity, inspire our consciousness with
the Ultimate Truth.Y34.2 – Inspired by the Good Mind, these deeds come from
the good spirit of the virtuous person,
Whose soul follows the path of Truth,
Approaching Thy Presence, O Mazda, singing
hymns of Thy praise.Y34.15 – Make known to me, O Mazda, the best teachings and actions,
Actuated by the Good Mind, and inspired by Truth,
As I express my aspiration in my songs of veneration for Thee.
By Thy Sovereign Authority do Thou regenerate this
existence, through Thy gracious Will, O Ahura!Y43.2 – And may we have the Best the Lord bestows;
As we strive for enlightened purpose, may we attain it!
Through Thy Most Holy Spirit, O Mazda,
Inspire us with Truth, revealed through the Good Mind,
And bless us with things good, for all the days of a long life!Y43.3 – He who teaches others the righteous path of truth and happiness,
Both in the material world and also the spiritual,
The path leading to Thy abode, O Ahura;
He attains an end better than good.
A generous and enlightened helper, a faithful worthy
of Thee, is he, O MazdaY44.10 -This I ask Thee, tell me truly, O Ahura;
The Faith that is the best for all that are,
That which, based on Truth, should prosper all existence,
That which establishes Righteous and Just actions
inspired by Piety,
And which has for its intelligent aspiration
Realization of Thee, O Mazda!Y47.2 – The best work of this Bountiful spirit, he fulfils
Endowed with the Good Mind, speaks word of wisdom,
Works with his hands as prompted by active Benevolence,
Inspired by the insight that Thou, O Mazda, art
the Father of Truth.Y48.3 – O Benevolent, Omniscient Mazda!
To the man understanding Thy Message
Thou dost bestow the profound treasure of Thy
Teachings;
That which Thou hast established through Truth!
With an intelligence inspired by the Good Mind,
Verily, one becomes worthy of Thee, O Mazda!
Y48.8 – Will the joy of Thy good kingdom of Heaven,
Be the blessed state appointed for me, O Ahura!
What manifestation of Thy Truth shall be welcomed
by the pious
And inspire them to strive for the great deeds of the
Good Spirit?Y48.12 – Such are the saviors of the earth,
Who, inspired by the Good Mind, cause betterment,
By actions in tune with the laws of Truth and justice.
They are indeed appointed by Thee to dispel
violence, O Mazda!Y49.1 – To me who has endeavored to win over the
disaffected to the cause of Truth,
To me, the opposing Bandva has been a stubborn foe!
Come to me with Thy gift of helpful grace, O Mazda!
Through Thy Good-Mind inspire us to overcome this evil!Y49.7 – Do thou listen to this. O Ahura!
Let him also listen who is endowed with the Good Mind,
Let him hear too who is inspired by the Spirit of Truth.
Who among my kinsman, who among my friends,
shall live by Thy Laws
And bring recognition of Thy Faith among the people?Y51.3 – All these, indeed, gather unto Thee, O Mazda,
They who have done Thy work,
Whose actions accord with the Truth,
Whose words proceed from the Good Mind,
Whose Inspirer art Thou from the very beginning!Y53.7 – O ye, men and women!
When faithful zeal inspires your life,
When tainted thoughts and intentions are rooted out,
When the evil within you is destroyed for ever,
Then shall the Blessed Reward be yours for the
Good Work.
And if you fail, “Alas, Alas” shall be your final words!Hi KJ,
So some poetic human prayers to a false god impress you?
Where does the imaginary god reply?
You are so gullible.Ah, but how doe God reply to you? What proof do you have that says what you believe is any more valid? Could others not say you are as equally as gullible? Your words are empty reasoning, based upon your own beliefs Nick. They hold no strength as similar words can be repeated by any other. A JW can say them, a Mormon can mimic them, a Buddhist can claim them for his own. What makes your opinion so much more valid than what they say?
Hi KJ,
Have you not heard God speak through Jesus and the prophets?
Have you not felt the guiding wind of the Spirit each day?
Does your heart not warm to the voice of Christ?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2008,16:12) Hi KJ,
Have you not heard God speak through Jesus and the prophets?
No and neither have you. Just like the “poetry” above you just read the words of others.Quote Have you not felt the guiding wind of the Spirit each day?
Would that be the same spirit that leads millions to believe differently about the same static words?Quote Does your heart not warm to the voice of Christ?
What voice? Are you hearing voices in your head Nick?Hi Kj,
It is nice to see that your openmindedness lets the draught blow right through.
I do hope you find a user friendly religion but if you get lost
I know Someone Who can help.Hi Nick,
It is nice to see that your closemindedness traps vague ideas and forbids the use of the intelligence God gave you.
I do hope you continue to ignore the barbaric God of the Holy Bible.In another thread, someone else posted
- Heb 10:31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Just another example of the bible God using fear and intimidation. The fear and intimidation approach used to be prevalent in companies but they soon realized it was not effective. More and more people are realizing it is not effective in spirituality anymore either.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2008,15:31) Hi KJ,
So some poetic human prayers to a false god impress you?
Where does the imaginary god reply?
You are so gullible.
Just curious though: what makes you think Ahura Mazda is “false”? From Cyrus Charter of Human Rights- The charter of Cyrus the Great, a baked-clay Aryan language (Old Persian) cuneiform cylinder, was discovered in 1878 in excavation of the site of Babylon. In it, Cyrus the Great described his human treatment of the inhabitants of Babylonia after its conquest by the Iranians.
The document has been hailed as the first charter of human rights, and in 1971 the United Nations was published translation of it in all the official U.N. languages. “May Ahura Mazda protect this land, this nation, from rancor, from foes, from falsehood, and from drought”. Selected from the book “The Eternal Land”.
The very same Cyrus is found in the OT
- Isa 45:1 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
Very, very interesting that Cyrus pays homage to Ahura Mazda but in turn Yahweh calls him “anointed”. What is you anser to this false God Ahura Mazda in the face of obvious evidence?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2008,18:22) The answer Jesus gave was that he had already told them but they could judge by his works if they did not believe.
And this is the point I am trying to make……Jesus' works did NOT match what was promised/predicted of the Messiah to come.That is why the Jews, and John the Baptist were confused. That is why I am confused today.
Hi Mandy,
Is this fact or just your current opinion as a gentile, with no other hope than what he provides?
If you could say that he has already fulfilled all the promises made about him to the Jews would you believe?
Does it really matter that you are having difficulty ticking all the boxes?
His works done in the power of God showed he was the Christ.
There are no others coming that you can follow.Hi Keith,
Good to hear from you!
Quote My heart and prayer for you and Kevin is that your hearts will burn. But I pray this for myself and others also. For we all need to know him. Please do not be offended. I do not look down my nose or with disdain to you or Kevin, neither do I claim a corner on truth. I only share what is real to me.
Good stuff here, brother! Thank you for your kind words and love. Your Christianity is genuine and I'm positive that Jesus will say to you, “Well done!”.My hear does burn to know him; to know God. There were so many times during ministry when I was supposed to be singing that all I could do was cry. The other members of the band would always just laugh at me knowing that when the spirit of God came over me like that – I couldn't sing. The trio I was in became a duet and all I could do was praise God with hands lifted high and tears running low.
I have stayed up all night in search of God. I have fasted for days on end. I have produced so much fruit that I could have been a fruit basket. I've fed the poor, visited those in jail, given away my clothes and money to those who asked……the list goes on. Keith, I've sat in the presence of God and wept for hours. I've had a holy hunger so severe that nothing could quench it! I let laundry go, dinners weren't cooked, I just couldn't get enough. My husband was beginning to wonder about me – not to mention the neighbors who watched me worship in dance out on my deck!
I didn't care who saw me….. My Father saw me, and that was who I was trying to please.But something has happened. I've looked critically at the OT and what it says about the coming Messiah, and Jesus doesn't match. It doesn't matter how you cut it, he just doesn't match. No one wants to look at that honestly. I think Nick sees it, but he is too far gone in his belief to take a fresh look (or maybe too old? ha! I know that my sis who is approaching 60 says that she can't even bear to wrong at this point in her life – she's just going with what she knows). I ask honest questions and all I get is, “Have faith and don't look back!”. Not good enough.
Quote Then Jesus starting at Moses began to tell them all the scriptures concerning himself, yet their eyes were holden that they didn’t know him.
Well, I sure wish they would have recorded more comparisons of the promised Messiah to Jesus in the NT. If Jesus was looking at the OT and telling these gentlemen about himself so that the scriptures were open to them……..why didn't he do that in the NT? Why didn't he have Paul give us accounts where the OT spoke of him? There might be one or two, but certainly not from Moses on.Quote The Scribes and Pharisees of Jesus day thought they knew who the Messiah would be by their understanding of the Hebrew scriptures, yet they missed him.
With all due respect, they missed him because he didn't fit the bill! How else would they “miss him”? They studied the scriptures and yet they couldn't recognize the Messiah whom they were searching for [in Jesus]? Makes you wonder why? Was God trying to trick them? God gave certain criteria and points to watch for in the coming Messiah – he did this so that his kids could recognize this special One. Otherwise, why bother with the details if the One who was coming wouldn't fulfill them and fit the given description? And don't give me the “second coming” because it isn't written.Thanks, Keith. I take to heart your words and advice. I just want to know why Jesus doesn't match the description of the Messiah in the OT. And why doesn't the OT talk about the second coming? Thanks.
Love,
MandyQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2008,15:59) His works done in the power of God showed he was the Christ.
Not according to the OT, Nick.The OT says a great deal about what we can expect the Messiah to accomplish. Jesus did not accomplish what he was supposed to as the Messiah.
A “second coming” is a cop-out, for I can not find it written anywhere……….can you? Please show me, if you can.
Hi Mandy,
You may disbelieve Jesus is the Christ but it does not let you off the hook.
What of his amazing wisdom and works of power?
He made claims about himself that you deny.So do you follow towshab here and deny the works were of God but call them party tricks?
Or do you say he was a liar but worked in the power of God.
That is an unusual concept.You then need to decide if it is the whole of the NT you reject or only part.
Would you like to hold onto the OT or strike out on your own with KJ?Hi Nick,
I'm only really asking one question here, and it has nothing to do with Tow, Stu, Kejonn or anyone else for that matter. The question I'm asking is one that you will not answer.
God gave us a description of the coming Messiah in the OT. Why doesn't Jesus match that description?
Hi Mandy,
You cannot see it at this stage of your searching.
You must see it all at once which is a bit sad
Your knowledge means little in the long term.Hi Nick,
I cannot see what at this stage of my searching? I cannot see your answer to my one and only question, that is for sure!
Of course knowledge is nothing. But that doesn't keep us from asking, “Why?” and expecting a logical answer.
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