You don't believe in hell?

[Lightenup]

Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 12 2010,14:25)

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 13 2010,04:11) Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 12 2010,07:26) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 09 2010,14:40) I need to share this radio broadcast about a conservative Christian's testimony regarding God showing him hell… http://www.sidroth.org/site….rl=1121 Greetings Lightenup……The messianic message is one the few messages that speaks to Apostolic Christianty which is where it all started when Jesus spoke to Peter and started his ministry which consisted of Jews of diverse backgrounds from tax collectors,fishermen and physicians….This all changed at Nicea ,when the universal church de judized the holy days as well as the sabbath while rewriting the law(torah). Hi theodorej, I'm sure all the persecution from the Jews towards the follower's of Christ had a lot to do with turning people away from what was so special to these persecuter Jews.  Killing the follower's of Christ did little to cause the new believing Gentiles to cozy up to anything the 'Jesus hating Jews' held dear back then during the first few centuries after Christ died. What did you think about the radio broadcast? Greetings L U…..The Jesus hating jews are the same today as they were then ( for the most part they wee Hellinistic) today we refer to them as orthodox…None the less this was the group that Jesus refered to as Hyporcrits and vipers….The torah believing jews that followed Jesus knew he was the messiah and were the witnesses to his ministry and the evolution of christianity…..Interesting video…Iam always fascinated with appparitions,visions and those who hear from or speak to God in some way shape or form….A vision of hell is especially interesting because my sense is that, it is not opened yet but, its opening is iminent…and will follow the establishment of Gods government on this earth with Jesus being King of Kings and lord of lords…

Hi theodorej,
I'm glad that you liked the Sid Roth interview. I thought it was powerful. I listen and watch many of the interviews on that show. I have an open mind about people's experiences and I give them the benefit of the doubt and also test them against scriptures. You said that you find people's visions, etc. interesting, well, I encourage you to go see the archive of the radio shows and tv shows there. I subscribe to the podcasts and am one of his regular listeners. He has quite a burden to reach the Jews with the gospel especially since he is a Jew himself.

One day all the kings of the earth will worship the Lord Jesus and all the Gentiles will serve Him!

[shimmer]

Quote (Stu @ Nov. 13 2010,15:55)

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 13 2010,10:17) Stuart, have you ever been to church, just out of curiosity. I mean, to a church sermon, you would have right ? If so, how many times have you been, did you go to sunday school as a kid ? I was taken to Sunday school as a child.  By the age of ten I had worked out that the teachers there had nothing of any consequence to say, and the bible contained dull cartoon answers to real questions. During those Sunday mornings I did a lot of thinking and dreaming about real things of real interest instead. Thank you for asking. Stuart

Stuart, I had to go,

I used to wait for the car to pick me up for sunday school, and I used to hope they got a puncture or something, so I didnt have to go. I dont know why ? haha.

[theodorej]

Quote (Stu @ Nov. 13 2010,06:36)

Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 12 2010,23:40) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 12 2010,22:56) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 12 2010,08:14) Stuart, sometimes I think that maybe God knew we all had our own opinions, in scripture anyone can make it say whatever they want. So maybe God left it like that, to see what each person would get from it, who knows ? Just something I thought of once. God also gave us a mind to think and reason, and thoughts and feelings as well. The simplest thing in scripture is clear. Love God and love neighbour. Certainly hold hopes for loving neighbour.  Why love this petulantly violent god?  Do you think perhaps it seeks forgiveness for its transgressions against humans?  Will it repent of its nastiness? Stuart Hey Stu…. This angry God you speak of loves you,inspite of your stiff neck…The anger you speak of is commonly known as judgement and is the consequences of actions….For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction….so science postulates….when you apply that theory to the actions of a human being it becomes the consequences of our actions….This principle applies to the rebulous nature of man….When it comes to the innocence it is Gods will that dictates and his interlect and reasoning far surpasses that of any human being but because of his loving nature it always works for the good…. What sort of judgment would settle on the notion that all humans except one family deserved to be drowned? Stuart

Greetings Stu…. My assumption is that you are speaking of the family of Noah,that being said….let me start by saying that in the eyes of God Noah was living a productive rightous existance,he was not participating in the reveling,the fornication and of every form of perversion,he was not murdering,stealing and debasing God and his creation….For that reason God charged him with the responsibility to restablish the roots of civilization once again, and doing so he considered him rightous….God also spared his sons,(Shem a fair skinned young man,Japath a yellow complexion young man,Ham a dark skinned young man)and their wives….The judgement that came upon the earth in the form of 40days of rain and a catastrophic flood that ended all life on the planet ensued….This was the consequences of mans actions…

[theodorej]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 13 2010,15:03)

Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 12 2010,14:25) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 13 2010,04:11) Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 12 2010,07:26) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 09 2010,14:40) I need to share this radio broadcast about a conservative Christian's testimony regarding God showing him hell… http://www.sidroth.org/site….rl=1121 Greetings Lightenup……The messianic message is one the few messages that speaks to Apostolic Christianty which is where it all started when Jesus spoke to Peter and started his ministry which consisted of Jews of diverse backgrounds from tax collectors,fishermen and physicians….This all changed at Nicea ,when the universal church de judized the holy days as well as the sabbath while rewriting the law(torah). Hi theodorej, I'm sure all the persecution from the Jews towards the follower's of Christ had a lot to do with turning people away from what was so special to these persecuter Jews.  Killing the follower's of Christ did little to cause the new believing Gentiles to cozy up to anything the 'Jesus hating Jews' held dear back then during the first few centuries after Christ died. What did you think about the radio broadcast? Greetings L U…..The Jesus hating jews are the same today as they were then ( for the most part they wee Hellinistic) today we refer to them as orthodox…None the less this was the group that Jesus refered to as Hyporcrits and vipers….The torah believing jews that followed Jesus knew he was the messiah and were the witnesses to his ministry and the evolution of christianity…..Interesting video…Iam always fascinated with appparitions,visions and those who hear from or speak to God in some way shape or form….A vision of hell is especially interesting because my sense is that, it is not opened yet but, its opening is iminent…and will follow the establishment of Gods government on this earth with Jesus being King of Kings and lord of lords… Hi  theodorej, I'm glad that you liked the Sid Roth interview.  I thought it was powerful.  I listen and watch many of the interviews on that show.  I have an open mind about people's experiences and I give them the benefit of the doubt and also test them against scriptures.  You said that you find people's visions, etc. interesting, well, I encourage you to go see the archive of the radio shows and tv shows there.  I subscribe to the podcasts and am one of his regular listeners.  He has quite a burden to reach the Jews with the gospel especially since he is a Jew himself. One day all the kings of the earth will worship the Lord Jesus and all the Gentiles will serve Him!

Hi LU….. Thanks for the link,we can compare notes going forward….Messianic Jewery is a lynch pin in understanding Gods plan for us and how salvation is a gift for all…The priestly tribes of benjimen,levi and judah were the only ones of the twelve to embrace and keep the law which was given in the sinai…The remaining tribes elected to follow Idolatry and to this day although their identity remains somewhat obscure they are evident in various parts of the globe…One of the key identifying factors involved in finding the decendents of Judah,Benjimen and Levi is the torah(law) and the keeping of the holydays as well as the saturday sabbath…Levi are the priests and Judah is the septre(The throne of the King)Jesus told us his throne will always exist and to this day still does,although in obscurity…God is calling a select few initially and eventually all will come to know the truth and see his loving plan for all of us and we will say to each other “How could it have been any other way”…..Mr Roth has a herculean task before him because he is dealing with the hard hearts and stiff necks that denied the messiah so many centuries ago…

[Stu]

Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 13 2010,22:33)

Quote (Stu @ Nov. 13 2010,06:36) Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 12 2010,23:40) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 12 2010,22:56) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 12 2010,08:14) Stuart, sometimes I think that maybe God knew we all had our own opinions, in scripture anyone can make it say whatever they want. So maybe God left it like that, to see what each person would get from it, who knows ? Just something I thought of once. God also gave us a mind to think and reason, and thoughts and feelings as well. The simplest thing in scripture is clear. Love God and love neighbour. Certainly hold hopes for loving neighbour.  Why love this petulantly violent god?  Do you think perhaps it seeks forgiveness for its transgressions against humans?  Will it repent of its nastiness? Stuart Hey Stu…. This angry God you speak of loves you,inspite of your stiff neck…The anger you speak of is commonly known as judgement and is the consequences of actions….For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction….so science postulates….when you apply that theory to the actions of a human being it becomes the consequences of our actions….This principle applies to the rebulous nature of man….When it comes to the innocence it is Gods will that dictates and his interlect and reasoning far surpasses that of any human being but because of his loving nature it always works for the good…. What sort of judgment would settle on the notion that all humans except one family deserved to be drowned? Stuart Greetings Stu…. My assumption is that you are speaking of the family of Noah,that being said….let me start by saying that in the eyes of God Noah was living a productive rightous existance,he was not participating in the reveling,the fornication and of every form of perversion,he was not murdering,stealing and debasing God and his creation….For that reason God charged him with the responsibility to restablish the roots of civilization once again, and doing so he considered him rightous….God also spared his sons,(Shem a fair skinned young man,Japath a yellow complexion young man,Ham a dark skinned young man)and their wives….The judgement that came upon the earth in the form of 40days of rain and a catastrophic flood that ended all life on the planet ensued….This was the consequences of mans actions…

Apart from the obvious genetic absurdities of this myth, and the fact that it never actually happened, how is killing virtually the entire population for a list of trivial vices a moral act?

There is nothing wrong with reveling.

What of fornication? That has given rise to most of the human population. We are both certainly the product of thousands of acts of fornication throughout the last 185,000 years. I am more than happy to be so. Aren't you?

As for debasing god, that would seem to be the honorable thing to do, given its violent outbursts against our species.

We have murder and stealing today, and we have more civilised ways of dealing with those transgressions than your god apparently did when he was the unhappy OT god.

And what of punishment in the afterlife?

All you can conclude is that when it comes to Romans 1, gay people really should constantly fear lightening bolts even today because apparently “deserving of death” should be taken literally in this life and not in the waffly abstract sense of an afterlife.

Stuart

[Lightenup]

theodorej,
I agree with your statement on Messianic Jewery. I believe the feasts and Messianic prophecies reveal a lot but it still takes eyes to see and ears to hear when studying them. What is your background…Trinitarian? I would like to post something in the worship thread and get your opinion on it.

Thanks!

[Lightenup]

theodorej,

Here is where I posted something for you in the Worship thread:

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….st=1260

[theodorej]

Quote (Stu @ Nov. 14 2010,07:18)

Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 13 2010,22:33) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 13 2010,06:36) Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 12 2010,23:40) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 12 2010,22:56) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 12 2010,08:14) Stuart, sometimes I think that maybe God knew we all had our own opinions, in scripture anyone can make it say whatever they want. So maybe God left it like that, to see what each person would get from it, who knows ? Just something I thought of once. God also gave us a mind to think and reason, and thoughts and feelings as well. The simplest thing in scripture is clear. Love God and love neighbour. Certainly hold hopes for loving neighbour.  Why love this petulantly violent god?  Do you think perhaps it seeks forgiveness for its transgressions against humans?  Will it repent of its nastiness? Stuart Hey Stu…. This angry God you speak of loves you,inspite of your stiff neck…The anger you speak of is commonly known as judgement and is the consequences of actions….For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction….so science postulates….when you apply that theory to the actions of a human being it becomes the consequences of our actions….This principle applies to the rebulous nature of man….When it comes to the innocence it is Gods will that dictates and his interlect and reasoning far surpasses that of any human being but because of his loving nature it always works for the good…. What sort of judgment would settle on the notion that all humans except one family deserved to be drowned? Stuart Greetings Stu…. My assumption is that you are speaking of the family of Noah,that being said….let me start by saying that in the eyes of God Noah was living a productive rightous existance,he was not participating in the reveling,the fornication and of every form of perversion,he was not murdering,stealing and debasing God and his creation….For that reason God charged him with the responsibility to restablish the roots of civilization once again, and doing so he considered him rightous….God also spared his sons,(Shem a fair skinned young man,Japath a yellow complexion young man,Ham a dark skinned young man)and their wives….The judgement that came upon the earth in the form of 40days of rain and a catastrophic flood that ended all life on the planet ensued….This was the consequences of mans actions… Apart from the obvious genetic absurdities of this myth, and the fact that it never actually happened, how is killing virtually the entire population for a list of trivial vices a moral act?   There is nothing wrong with reveling. What of fornication?  That has given rise to most of the human population.  We are both certainly the product of thousands of acts of fornication throughout the last 185,000 years.  I am more than happy to be so.  Aren't you? As for debasing god, that would seem to be the honorable thing to do, given its violent outbursts against our species. We have murder and stealing today, and we have more civilised ways of dealing with those transgressions than your god apparently did when he was the unhappy OT god. And what of punishment in the afterlife?   All you can conclude is that when it comes to Romans 1, gay people really should constantly fear lightening bolts even today because apparently “deserving of death” should be taken literally in this life and not in the waffly abstract sense of an afterlife. Stuart

Greetings…..The answer to your question is quite simple….when one realizes the omnipotent power of the creator of the universe,one of the first things he defines is morals or their equivelent which is right and wrong….That is why he is God and we are not….

[theodorej]

STU….. Homosexuality is a personal and private proclivity that has no genetic links and no means to procreate….God is quite clear in his expression of displeasure with respect to this lifestyle and its propagation…We all have to live with the consequences of our decisions and behavior for better or for worse…

[theodorej]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 14 2010,09:03)

theodorej, I agree with your statement on Messianic Jewery.  I believe the feasts and Messianic prophecies reveal a lot but it still takes eyes to see and ears to hear when studying them. What is your background…Trinitarian?  I would like to post something in the worship thread and get your opinion on it. Thanks!

Greetings Kathi…..Iam a God fearing,Bible believing non sectarian….In search of truth and the church that embraces it through the power of the spirit of God….In addition Iam an excommunicated Catholic with a Catholic school education…Theology is my favorite subject and the concept of the trinity as presented by the Catholic Church is not something hold to….

[Lightenup]

theodorej,
I completely agree with what you wrote. Amen…I love to agree! Were you excommunicated because of your view on the trinity doctrine? You have me curious to know more about you. I picture you as a sophisticated englishman smoking a pipe…is it true Where do you live? Do you regularly attend a church now or how long has it been since you did? Sorry if I am too nosy, feel free to say that you would rather not answer.

How would you present the trinity?

[Stu]

Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 15 2010,21:39)

STU….. Homosexuality is a personal and private proclivity that has no genetic links and no means to procreate….God is quite clear in his expression of displeasure with respect to this lifestyle and its propagation…We all have to live with the consequences of our decisions and behavior for better or for worse…

You have not demonstrated that there is no genetic link, but it is of no consequence to me either way. If two men, or two women wish to demonstrate their love for one another physically, and there is a god that says such devotion is evil, then I think it is an immoral god. Do you think I have been clear enough about my disapproval of this monstrous Imaginary Being?

I will not require you to worship me instead.

Stuart

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ Nov. 16 2010,13:59)

Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 15 2010,21:39) STU….. Homosexuality is a personal and private proclivity that has no genetic links and no means to procreate….God is quite clear in his expression of displeasure with respect to this lifestyle and its propagation…We all have to live with the consequences of our decisions and behavior for better or for worse… You have not demonstrated that there is no genetic link, but it is of no consequence to me either way.  If two men, or two women wish to demonstrate their love for one another physically, and there is a god that says such devotion is evil, then I think it is an immoral god.  Do you think I have been clear enough about my disapproval of this monstrous Imaginary Being? I will not require you to worship me instead. Stuart

STU

Even even clearly support Father and son relationships or Grandmother and GrandChild as lond as the Grandchild is consenting age they can have intercourse and STU fully supports their Human rights after all STU doesn't just believe in God being Imaginary he also believes that such boundaries are also imaginary

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 16 2010,14:11)

Quote (Stu @ Nov. 16 2010,13:59) Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 15 2010,21:39) STU….. Homosexuality is a personal and private proclivity that has no genetic links and no means to procreate….God is quite clear in his expression of displeasure with respect to this lifestyle and its propagation…We all have to live with the consequences of our decisions and behavior for better or for worse… You have not demonstrated that there is no genetic link, but it is of no consequence to me either way.  If two men, or two women wish to demonstrate their love for one another physically, and there is a god that says such devotion is evil, then I think it is an immoral god.  Do you think I have been clear enough about my disapproval of this monstrous Imaginary Being? I will not require you to worship me instead. Stuart STU Even even clearly support Father and son relationships or Grandmother and GrandChild as lond as the Grandchild is consenting age they can have intercourse and STU fully supports their Human rights after all STU doesn't just believe in God being Imaginary he also believes that such boundaries are also imaginary

You said kiss. I agreed to kiss.

Now you are lying about what I wrote.

You are dishonest.

Stuart

[Ed J]

Quote (Stu @ Nov. 16 2010,13:59)

I will not require you to worship me instead. Stuart

Hi Stuart,

Be careful what you say, you know how confused BD is!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ Nov. 16 2010,20:38)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 16 2010,14:11) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 16 2010,13:59) Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 15 2010,21:39) STU….. Homosexuality is a personal and private proclivity that has no genetic links and no means to procreate….God is quite clear in his expression of displeasure with respect to this lifestyle and its propagation…We all have to live with the consequences of our decisions and behavior for better or for worse… You have not demonstrated that there is no genetic link, but it is of no consequence to me either way.  If two men, or two women wish to demonstrate their love for one another physically, and there is a god that says such devotion is evil, then I think it is an immoral god.  Do you think I have been clear enough about my disapproval of this monstrous Imaginary Being? I will not require you to worship me instead. Stuart STU Even even clearly support Father and son relationships or Grandmother and GrandChild as lond as the Grandchild is consenting age they can have intercourse and STU fully supports their Human rights after all STU doesn't just believe in God being Imaginary he also believes that such boundaries are also imaginary You said kiss.  I agreed to kiss. Now you are lying about what I wrote. You are dishonest. Stuart

So you don't believe that a Father and son of consenting adult age have the right to have intercourse? If not, why not?

Is it immoral?

[theodorej]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 16 2010,13:30)

theodorej, I completely agree with what you wrote.  Amen…I love to agree!  Were you excommunicated because of your view on the trinity doctrine?  You have me curious to know more about you.  I picture you as a sophisticated englishman smoking a pipe…is it true Where do you live? Do you regularly attend a church now or how long has it been since you did?  Sorry if I am too nosy, feel free to say that you would rather not answer. How would you present the trinity?

Greetings Kathi…..Iam flattered by your curiousity..(blush,blush)Let me start by saying,”my choice of avatar is one of an owl”To exemplify”the wise old owl”,this is not to say that Iam wise but my belief is that,”the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom”….The owl in a smoking jacket and a pipe projects a form of surety and self confidence coupled with the illusion of success/sofistication…The truth be told…I run a small liquidation business for high end telecommunications equipment and live on long island and Florida for the winter….I was excommunicated 36 years ago for marrying jewish women who was non practicing and to this day has no interest in religion,you might say Iam unevenly yoked but she is pleased to dwell and for that reason we are friends….Iam in search of a church where I can share and fellowship with folks of like mind….Iam sorry to have not matched your picture….just goes to show that things sometimes are not as they seem…..I view the trinity as a description of the Eternal wherby He Is(Father)and he created all by his Word( and the word was god)”let there be light and so there was light”this was done by the mere statement of the Eternal.Jesus was the word and he became flesh and lived among us…and the Spirit is the very essense of God…When you do the math….There is only one at the very least you could count two if the personage of Jesus…was present in the beginning…and Iam extremely interested in this topic…In closing let me say “you are not nosy…just curious…so am I…..take care / teddy

[theodorej]

Quote (Stu @ Nov. 16 2010,13:59)

Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 15 2010,21:39) STU….. Homosexuality is a personal and private proclivity that has no genetic links and no means to procreate….God is quite clear in his expression of displeasure with respect to this lifestyle and its propagation…We all have to live with the consequences of our decisions and behavior for better or for worse… You have not demonstrated that there is no genetic link, but it is of no consequence to me either way.  If two men, or two women wish to demonstrate their love for one another physically, and there is a god that says such devotion is evil, then I think it is an immoral god.  Do you think I have been clear enough about my disapproval of this monstrous Imaginary Being? I will not require you to worship me instead. Stuart

Greetings Stu…. Love between a man and a woman fosters procreation and a preservation of the speci….What does love between a man and another man produce….Nothing…Let us not confuse Love with Lust….Because the heart of the man is hopelessly wicked he pursues every form of pervercity in the search of pleasure…There is nothing wrong with love and affection one towards another be it man or women,it is the denegrading of the sex act of lovemaking which is for the pleasure of a man and a women that seperates lovemaking from sodomy…

[Lightenup]

Hi theodorej,
Is it all right with you if I call you Ted? Thanks for filling me in…I guess that I don't have to read your comments with a British accent anymore I really enjoy knowing more about people here on HN. Do you have children? Good for you to be married for 36 years and good for you to continue looking for a church. What is your view on hell? I have more questions…see you in the worship thread, smile!
Kathi

[theodorej]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 17 2010,05:54)

Hi theodorej, Is it all right with you if I call you Ted?  Thanks for filling me in…I guess that I don't have to read your comments with a British accent anymore  I really enjoy knowing more about people here on HN.  Do you have children?  Good for you to be married for 36 years and good for you to continue looking for a church.  What is your view on hell?  I have more questions…see you in the worship thread, smile! Kathi

Greetings Kathi…. It would be fun to speak….Now that you know Iam not that aristocratic english philosopher who speaks only the kings english….We were never blessed with children and never had the feeling to adopt….Ted is the name I go by and all my friends call me that…and other things at times….It is my sense that hell is not opened yet that is not to say it won't be open soon….The dead are just dead ,they know nothing and this will be the case until the end of the milenial period….and than the resurection….This is a very involved topic and discussing always leaves me with a little more than I thought I knew….

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