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Quote (TimothyVI @ Nov. 11 2010,01:42) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2010,21:04) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 10 2010,16:54) The character of god is that which killed Uzzah for only trying to help Stuart
Hi Stuart,We have discussed this issue over and over again.
You seem to be suffering from amnesia again!That account was given by the Scribe of the king.
NOT A PROPHET OF GOD; only Prophets of God are 100% accurate.That's like getting the story from Obama's press Secretary!
Would you consider what he would say to be 100% accurate?Think about it!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
But I thought that the entire bible was inspired by God.
Did God inspire this scribe of the king to tell a lie?Tim
Hi Tim,If an account is given based on what they truly believe,
would you call that lying? Lying is pure deception!
Have you ever studied eyewitness accounts?
How the FACTS can very from people?Discovery is accumulative rather than conclusive!
Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 11 2010,06:24) Quote (TimothyVI @ Nov. 11 2010,01:42) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2010,21:04) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 10 2010,16:54) The character of god is that which killed Uzzah for only trying to help Stuart
Hi Stuart,We have discussed this issue over and over again.
You seem to be suffering from amnesia again!That account was given by the Scribe of the king.
NOT A PROPHET OF GOD; only Prophets of God are 100% accurate.That's like getting the story from Obama's press Secretary!
Would you consider what he would say to be 100% accurate?Think about it!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
But I thought that the entire bible was inspired by God.
Did God inspire this scribe of the king to tell a lie?Tim
Hi Tim,If an account is given based on what they truly believe,
would you call that lying? Lying is pure deception!
Have you ever studied eyewitness accounts?
How the FACTS can very from people?Discovery is accumulative rather than conclusive!
Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)
That's what I keep telling you about your Quran/Islam bashingDiscovery is accumulative rather than conclusive!
I can't wait til you discover the truth about the Quran/Islam after you get over your initial SHAME you may be a good servant of GOD
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2010,08:12) the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night This is the proper way to understand how this is written. “their” and “they” are the same group and the semicolon[;] is showing these clauses to be interdependent
So whoever are the “their” of “Their Torment” are also the “They” that have no rest
Bod, you have to realise that the book of Revelations is writen in a way, which is not to be understood literally.The lamb before God wasnt an actual lamb but was the Lord
The beast with many heads etc wasnt an actual beast, but nations,
The stars were not actual stars but meant Angels,
and so onSo 'the smoke of their torment ascending forever and ever' has to be meaning something else..
The best way to understand this book I have found, is to fit it in with the clearer things, example with what Jesus said.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Nov. 11 2010,02:58) bodhitharta, “they have no rest day or night” Only means
they will be given no break until completed.Wm
Hi Seekingtruth,Excellent observation; dear brother! (John 16:14)
The profound BIBLE TRUTH you illustrate here may have gone unnoticed.So I have decided (out of my Free Will of course)
to focus everyone's attention to your Prophetic words! (Isa.30:26)Your brother in
Christ, Jesus!
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2010,04:54) Quote (seekingtruth @ Nov. 11 2010,02:58) bodhitharta, “they have no rest day or night” Only means they will be given no break until completed.
My opinion – Wm
I am really not debating the issue…
Hi Everyone,Luke 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which
all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.For the reader's sake:
I(Ed J) no longer Post directly to BD, nor answer his postulating questions,
because BD continues to make outrageous personal attacks
which go ignored by the owner of this site.Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 11 2010,08:38) For the reader's sake:
I(Ed J) no longer Post directly to BD, nor answer his postulating questions,
because BD continues to make outrageous personal attacks
which go ignored by the owner of this site.
Ed, true ? ok.Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2010,06:31) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 11 2010,06:24) Quote (TimothyVI @ Nov. 11 2010,01:42) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 10 2010,21:04) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 10 2010,16:54) The character of god is that which killed Uzzah for only trying to help Stuart
Hi Stuart,We have discussed this issue over and over again.
You seem to be suffering from amnesia again!That account was given by the Scribe of the king.
NOT A PROPHET OF GOD; only Prophets of God are 100% accurate.That's like getting the story from Obama's press Secretary!
Would you consider what he would say to be 100% accurate?Think about it!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
But I thought that the entire bible was inspired by God.
Did God inspire this scribe of the king to tell a lie?Tim
Hi Tim,If an account is given based on what they truly believe,
would you call that lying? Lying is pure deception!
Have you ever studied eyewitness accounts?
How the FACTS can very from people?Discovery is accumulative rather than conclusive!
Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)
That's what I keep telling you about your Quran/Islam bashingDiscovery is accumulative rather than conclusive!
I can't wait til you discover the truth about the Quran/Islam after you get over your initial SHAME you may be a good servant of GOD
Hi Everyone,The quran is the book of fraud
For the reader's sake:
I(Ed J) no longer Post directly to BD, nor answer his postulating questions,
because BD continues to make outrageous personal attacks
which go ignored by the owner of this site.Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 11 2010,06:32) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2010,08:12) the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night This is the proper way to understand how this is written. “their” and “they” are the same group and the semicolon[;] is showing these clauses to be interdependent
So whoever are the “their” of “Their Torment” are also the “They” that have no rest
Bod, you have to realise that the book of Revelations is writen in a way, which is not to be understood literally.The lamb before God wasnt an actual lamb but was the Lord
The beast with many heads etc wasnt an actual beast, but nations,
The stars were not actual stars but meant Angels,
and so onSo 'the smoke of their torment ascending forever and ever' has to be meaning something else..
The best way to understand this book I have found, is to fit it in with the clearer things, example with what Jesus said.
Okay so what did Jesus say?Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 11 2010,06:36) Quote (seekingtruth @ Nov. 11 2010,02:58) bodhitharta, “they have no rest day or night” Only means
they will be given no break until completed.Wm
Hi Seekingtruth,Excellent observation; dear brother! (John 16:14)
The profound BIBLE TRUTH you illustrate here may have gone unnoticed.So I have decided (out of my Free Will of course)
to focus everyone's attention to your Prophetic words! (Isa.30:26)Your brother in
Christ, Jesus!
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
John 16:14 (King James Version)
14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.Isaiah 30:26 (King James Version)
26Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.ED,
How does any of this apply to the topic?
Shimmer,
Quote “So 'the smoke of their torment ascending forever and ever' has to be meaning something else..”
Here's a possiblty: If you look at the YLT what the verse translates as is “to ages of ages” an age is a period of the history distinguished by some special feature. Scripture points out several ages and with a total history of 6,000 years that would mean a typical “age” is less than a couple of thousand years. so ages of ages could be as much as 2,000 lots of 2,000 years = 4,000,000 years (numbers only for the purpose of discussion).Now at judgment, we'll say hitlers, a God of justice who says “an eye for an eye” may demand a year of torment for every year “stolen” from the people that hitler had killed. with millions of deaths that can be laid at his feet this might add up assuming 6,000,000 (Jews) times a 30 year average, would be 180,000,000 years of torment due, sounds like to ages of ages.
Once again I'm just throwing numbers out and I have no idea how God will judge, I'm sure it is different from what I have discribed but I have given a plasible explaination that shows that there is no conflict with this scripture to a postulation that there is no eternal hell.
My opinion – Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Nov. 11 2010,10:01) Shimmer, Quote “So 'the smoke of their torment ascending forever and ever' has to be meaning something else..”
Here's a possiblty: If you look at the YLT what the verse translates as is “to ages of ages” an age is a period of the history distinguished by some special feature. Scripture points out several ages and with a total history of 6,000 years that would mean a typical “age” is less than a couple of thousand years. so ages of ages could be as much as 2,000 lots of 2,000 years = 4,000,000 years (numbers only for the purpose of discussion).Now at judgment, we'll say hitlers, a God of justice who says “an eye for an eye” may demand a year of torment for every year “stolen” from the people that hitler had killed. with millions of deaths that can be laid at his feet this might add up assuming 6,000,000 (Jews) times a 30 year average, would be 180,000,000 years of torment due, sounds like to ages of ages.
Once again I'm just throwing numbers out and I have no idea how God will judge, I'm sure it is different from what I have discribed but I have given a plasible explaination that shows that there is no conflict with this scripture to a postulation that there is no eternal hell.
My opinion – Wm
That may very well beQuote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2010,11:41) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 11 2010,06:32) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 11 2010,08:12) the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night This is the proper way to understand how this is written. “their” and “they” are the same group and the semicolon[;] is showing these clauses to be interdependent
So whoever are the “their” of “Their Torment” are also the “They” that have no rest
Bod, you have to realise that the book of Revelations is writen in a way, which is not to be understood literally.The lamb before God wasnt an actual lamb but was the Lord
The beast with many heads etc wasnt an actual beast, but nations,
The stars were not actual stars but meant Angels,
and so onSo 'the smoke of their torment ascending forever and ever' has to be meaning something else..
The best way to understand this book I have found, is to fit it in with the clearer things, example with what Jesus said.
Okay so what did Jesus say?
Jesus said, on the last days….The love of many will grow cold.
He who endures to the end will be saved.
This Good News of the Kingdom will be preached in the whole world for a testimony to all the nations,
Then the end will come.If any man tells you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or, 'There,' don't believe it.
As the days of Noah were, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
In those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ship,
They didn't know until the flood came, and took them all away,
So will be the coming of the Son of Man.The sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the sky, the powers of the heavens will be shaken;
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky.
As lightning flashes from the east, and is seen even to the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Wherever the carcass is, there is where the vultures gather together.
All the tribes of the earth will mourn, they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.
He will send out his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together his chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.Watch therefore, for you don't know in what hour your Lord comes.
Know this, that if the master of the house had known in what watch of the night the thief was coming, he would have watched, and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Be ready, for in an hour that you don't expect, the Son of Man will come.And on 'hell', just a quick search..
Literal translation..
I say to you, that many from east and west shall come and recline (at meat) with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the reign of the heavens, but the sons of the reign shall be cast forth to the outer darkness — there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.'
The Son of Man shall send forth his messengers, and they shall gather up out of his kingdom all the stumbling-blocks, and those doing the unlawlessness, and shall cast them to the furnace of the fire; there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth. `Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the reign of their Father. He who is having ears to hear — let him hear.
Take him up and cast forth to the outer darkness, there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth; for many are called, and few chosen.'
The lord of that servant will arrive in a day when he doth not expect, and in an hour of which he doth not know, and will cut him off, and his portion with the hypocrites will appoint; there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.
The unprofitable servant cast ye forth to the outer darkness; there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth. `And whenever the Son of Man may come in his glory, and all the holy messengers with him, then he shall sit upon a throne of his glory;
`Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of these, the least, ye did [it] not to me. And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'
Quote (seekingtruth @ Nov. 11 2010,12:01) Shimmer, Quote “So 'the smoke of their torment ascending forever and ever' has to be meaning something else..”
Here's a possiblty: If you look at the YLT what the verse translates as is “to ages of ages” an age is a period of the history distinguished by some special feature. Scripture points out several ages and with a total history of 6,000 years that would mean a typical “age” is less than a couple of thousand years. so ages of ages could be as much as 2,000 lots of 2,000 years = 4,000,000 years (numbers only for the purpose of discussion).Now at judgment, we'll say hitlers, a God of justice who says “an eye for an eye” may demand a year of torment for every year “stolen” from the people that hitler had killed. with millions of deaths that can be laid at his feet this might add up assuming 6,000,000 (Jews) times a 30 year average, would be 180,000,000 years of torment due, sounds like to ages of ages.
Once again I'm just throwing numbers out and I have no idea how God will judge, I'm sure it is different from what I have discribed but I have given a plasible explaination that shows that there is no conflict with this scripture to a postulation that there is no eternal hell.
My opinion – Wm
Hi Seeking Truth.I read in some Christian writings, that pleasure, the time goes fast, years and years of pleasure for example. But punishment, no matter how short in duration SEEMS like longer, especially when it's hard punishment, so time can seem like an eternity.
Good what you wrote.
Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 11 2010,18:37) Outer Darkness is the darkness without God….I see that.
Sorry, dont worry, just thinking out loud.See though, bod, how can 'outer darkess' be fire and burning as is in Revelations…purely symbolic writing….Revelations.
Shimmer,
in your post look at this last line
`Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of these, the least, ye did [it] not to me. And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'
You see how it says life and punishment are both age-during that means whatever time you think life is going to be which you would say is eternal then also the punishment is treated the same in that last line
I wondered that too. So maybe that means that eventually all will be saved. I think the Eastern Orthodox believe that, Im not sure. But then again, there is (In revelations) the second death, then death and hades are thrown into the 'lake of fire' and death is no more….?
Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 11 2010,23:50) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 11 2010,18:37) Outer Darkness is the darkness without God….I see that.
Sorry, dont worry, just thinking out loud.See though, bod, how can 'outer darkess' be fire and burning as is in Revelations…purely symbolic writing….Revelations.
shimmerwhat if the fire is the truth of God and darkness the lack of it ,
so it would be understood that because you rejected the truth you will now live in outer darkness so without god,but also without the possibility to come out of it.
is this make sense??
Pierre
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