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I'm new to this board, but I follow a lot of the discussions. So if this subject has been repeated, accept my apology.
I was on another board discussing the “pre-adamite” theory and one of the things that I think disproves that theory is that YHWH has always in HIS dealings with man had a REMNANT which HE preserved.
Does anybody agree with the statement that “YHWH always has a remnant”? And, what Scriptures you would use to prove that.
Hi and welcome,
How about Noah?
He found grace with God.
It is a word commonly fouind in scripture and is part of the refining of God that some survive to hold the flag of faith unto eternity.
Some examples are;
Gen 45.7,2Kn19.4,31,21.14,
2Chr 34.9, Is 10.20,,11.11, 37.4, 46.3, Jer 6.9, 50.20, Ezek6.8, Am 5.15, Zph3.13, Zech 8.12, 9.7, Rom 9.27, 11.5,
Rom 9.27
“though the number of the sons of Isreal be like the sands of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved”
Rom 11.5
'In the same way then, there also has come to be at the present time a remanant according to God's gracious choice”
And again the 144,000 of Revelation.Thanks, Nick.
Yes, good verses indeed. I tried to explain that on another forum, but the folks were adamantly opposed to that idea.
Quote (freeman @ July 08 2006,03:33) Thanks, Nick. Yes, good verses indeed. I tried to explain that on another forum, but the folks were adamantly opposed to that idea.
Hi Freeman,They were opposed to the idea that God keeps a remnant? What is their reasoning?
I agree that God always has a remnant. Let the redeemed of the LORD say so!
When God thought to wipe out Israel, he wanted to keep Moses and start over with him. In captivity, there were people like Mordecai; also Daniel, Meshach, Shadrach and Abed Nego who stood out even among their own people. In the days of Christ, similarly.
Quote (Cubes @ July 07 2006,23:45) Quote (freeman @ July 08 2006,03:33) Thanks, Nick. Yes, good verses indeed. I tried to explain that on another forum, but the folks were adamantly opposed to that idea.
Hi Freeman,They were opposed to the idea that God keeps a remnant? What is their reasoning?
I agree that God always has a remnant. Let the redeemed of the LORD say so!
When God thought to wipe out Israel, he wanted to keep Moses and start over with him. In captivity, there were people like Mordecai; also Daniel, Meshach, Shadrach and Abed Nego who stood out even among their own people. In the days of Christ, similarly.
Cubes,
Please don't laugh, but there reasoning was the following:
1) Where was the remnant when YHWH destroyed Sodom
2) Where are the EXACT literal words “GOD always has a remnant” in the Bible.I know this sounds funny, but this is exactly what they said. The same group of people preceded to tell me that GOD is not all-knowing and that YHWH is a MAN as well as YHWH is not a MAN. They use the Dake Bible to prove their position. They have some heretic views in my opinion.
I would consider Lot and his daughters to be remnants of S&G, even though he was an immigrant.
One's country of origin has nothing to do with being a remnant as God is no respector of persons. When judgment visits, one is not exempted based on race or country necessarily. Therefore Lot and his daughters could be considered remnant from S&G technically. He had a permanent home there which goes back to his parting from Abraham. That territory was his as he chose it and God let him have it.I would agree with them that God is not obligated to save the wicked. Even so, by his grace, there has usually been someone(s) on the face of the earth, who though not perfect, feared him. And for this reason, we've not been wiped out.
Well it seems that God would prefer to save a remnant than destroy them completely, but that may have more to do with their being righteous people among them and not choosing the best even if the best is scum.
But if there were no righteous, then maybe he would annihilate. I think Elijah asked about this very question, but I cannot find the scripture. Can someone quote it?
I can also think of at least one place where God commanded the Israelites to destroy all the inhabitants of a certain area. I think that the king spared some lives and God was angry about this. I think the saved people came back to haunt them in some way, my memory is very vague on this. Does anyone know the story, or where in the OT that is?
Also as far as a pre-adamite race goes, we cannot know for sure what God has been doing outside of what he has revealed, but I guess in eternity we will learn of what he has done in the past too.
I am not sure if the remnant idea disproves a pre-adamic race though. Hypothetically speaking, if they did exist, they could have been glorified/exhalted to a higher place or maybe they could have even fallen before man. I have even heard some say they are the demons that roam the earth today
Anyway, I personally would say that the biggest pointer to there not being a pre-adamic race is the lack of information in the bible regarding that. But that in itself is not proof.
However support for a pre-adamic race could be found here according to proponents of that theory at least:
Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.Genesis 9:1
And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.Dictionary.com
1. To fill or make complete again; add a new stock or supply to: replenish the larder.
2. To inspire or nourish: The music will replenish my weary soul.(Re) is a prefix that means 'again'. E.g., reorder, rename, reorganise.
Maybe there was, but I think this would require a look at the original meaning of 'replenish'. If God told Noah to replenish the earth, you would assume that to mean to start again. But why would you need to replenish the earth if you are Adam and Eve?
This could just be a language or translation issue however. I don't have time to dig deep on that one.Anyhow I think this says something about God. That he likes to start things with a prototype and if he has to start again, he prefers to start with an already existing person, rather than recreate from scratch. It seems that he delegates when he can, but I guess that he must always be involved in the first act to get the ball rolling so to speak. E.g., he created all things through his son. He also created man, and then man multiplies according to his instruction and design. He probably doesn't need to hand code every DNA code sequence thereafter. His laws take care of that.
Also scientists tell us that the DNA of a chimp is 90 something percent the same as a human. This is used by many evolutionists to support Evolution, but it can also be viewed as proof that both came from the same creator as the code is nearly the same.
The point here is it appears that he prefers to model even animals from the code of other created things if we look at DNA claims made by scientists and geneticists at least. Perhaps in this sense this does support the idea that God uses something or someone to recreate. But maybe he has replenished or started over completely with beings on this earth?
Another example of this is when he created Eve. He didn't start with soil or create another prototype, but with the prototype man that he created he created his image.
In the end a pre-adamic race is speculation with maybe 2 scriptures possibly hinting at it, and we can only really make guesses here. But I would at least be wary of those with special revelation that is not scriptural.
Quote (freeman @ July 08 2006,01:30) Quote (Cubes @ July 07 2006,23:45) Quote (freeman @ July 08 2006,03:33) Thanks, Nick. Yes, good verses indeed. I tried to explain that on another forum, but the folks were adamantly opposed to that idea.
Hi Freeman,They were opposed to the idea that God keeps a remnant? What is their reasoning?
I agree that God always has a remnant. Let the redeemed of the LORD say so!
When God thought to wipe out Israel, he wanted to keep Moses and start over with him. In captivity, there were people like Mordecai; also Daniel, Meshach, Shadrach and Abed Nego who stood out even among their own people. In the days of Christ, similarly.
Cubes,
Please don't laugh, but there reasoning was the following:
1) Where was the remnant when YHWH destroyed Sodom
2) Where are the EXACT literal words “GOD always has a remnant” in the Bible.I know this sounds funny, but this is exactly what they said. The same group of people preceded to tell me that GOD is not all-knowing and that YHWH is a MAN as well as YHWH is not a MAN. They use the Dake Bible to prove their position. They have some heretic views in my opinion.
Hi,
Perhaps Sodom and Gomorrah was an example of God not being committed to ALWAYS leaving a remnant as a warning as shown here in Is 1.7f? He did not leave remnants of the Canaanites either but only of His people.'7Your (A)land is desolate,
Your cities are burned with fire,
Your fields–strangers are devouring them in your presence;
It is desolation, as overthrown by strangers.
8The daughter of Zion is left like a shelter in a vineyard,
Like a watchman's hut in a cucumber field, like a besieged city.
9(B)Unless the LORD of hosts
Had left us a few ©survivors,
We would be like (D)Sodom,
We would be like Gomorrah.
10Hear (E)the word of the LORD,
You rulers of (F)Sodom;
Give ear to the instruction of our God,
You people of Gomorrah.”Hi,
God always has a remnant people. Few are interested. Fewer listen to the Word of God. The tares are healthy and their false teachers thriving, bursting the doors of their buildings but is there faith on earth?Hi Tim,
God saves a remnant.
Zechariah 8:12
For the seed shall be prosperous; the vine shall give her fruit, and the ground shall give her increase, and the heavens shall give their dew; and I will cause the remnant of this people to possess all these things.Romans 9:27
Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Romans 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.Hi Nick
You know I laughed when I read your post. For some reason the thought of a movie came to mind.
The movie Pirates of the Carribean – Dead Mans Chest. When a pirate was reading a bible and his friend said “What are you reading the Bible for? You cant even read it” and the pirate replied “You get credit for trying”.
Also, everyone, it is not by grace alone you are saved. It is called faith with deeds.
James 2:17
17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.For more information Click Here
Hugs
PhoenixHi,
Remnant is a little insignificant word but features 85 times in the OT as the plan of God unfolds.
The crucible finds few elect.freeman
Quote Does anybody agree with the statement that “YHWH always has a remnant”? And, what Scriptures you would use to prove that. Hi freeman.
The Bible does tell us the characteristics of the remnant.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The dragon in Bible prophecy is Satan; the woman is God's church.
The identification of the remnant is that they keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Hi CB,
Actually the woman is Israel and the twelve stars are the twelve tribes.
The Woman Israel produces a son, Jesus.Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 14 2007,01:40) Hi Nick You know I laughed when I read your post. For some reason the thought of a movie came to mind.
The movie Pirates of the Carribean – Dead Mans Chest. When a pirate was reading a bible and his friend said “What are you reading the Bible for? You cant even read it” and the pirate replied “You get credit for trying”.
Also, everyone, it is not by grace alone you are saved. It is called faith with deeds.
James 2:17
17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.For more information Click Here
Hugs
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix:I know that you addressed Nick with this post, but I believe that you meant that we are not saved by faith alone. Salvation is by faith so that it might be by grace (meaning that we did not earn salvation through perfect obedience to God's Word).
James 2:20 states: “But wilt thou know O vain man, that faith without works is dead”.
This scripture is true, true, true, but we make mistakes as we strive to obey the Word of God, and so if it were not for the blood of Jesus there would not be a remedy for our sin, and so, salvation is by faith so it might be by grace.
God Bless
Quote The Bible does tell us the characteristics of the remnant. Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The dragon in Bible prophecy is Satan; the woman is God's church.
The identification of the remnant is that they keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
My Point exactly… thank you CB!!! Im sure I mentioned the same somewhere else before… oh thats right the Ten Commandments thread.
Quote This scripture is true, true, true, but we make mistakes as we strive to obey the Word of God, and so if it were not for the blood of Jesus there would not be a remedy for our sin, and so, salvation is by faith so it might be by grace. God Bless
Hi 94
Can I ask… did you read that site there? The one where the link takes you to a more better understanding of what i posted?
Hugs
Quote Hi 94,
He who enters the rest of God ceases from his own works[Heb 4]Yep Nick… works
Hugs
PhoenixHi Phoenix:
I did read the article and it states that we are saved by faith so it might be by grace, meaning, unmerited favor, and the article states that, “Faith without works is dead”. It does not state that we are not saved by “grace alone”, but if by this statement you are stating that we have to strive to obey the Word of God, then of course, that is true.
Hi 94
Can I ask… did you read that site there? The one where the link takes you to a more better understanding of what i posted?
Hugs
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 19 2007,22:37) Hi 94,
He who enters the rest of God ceases from his own works[Heb 4]
Hi Nick:Eph 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.God Bless
Hi 94,
The sons of God are led by the Spirit of God.
God uses available vessels but the yoke is easy and the burden light.
Men put heavy loads on their own shoulders anticipating the commission of God.
They should rest in the Lord and let His use them in His timing.
Not by might, nor by power but by the Spirit.
Obedience is all.
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