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Quote (thethinker @ May 22 2009,04:27) Quote (942767 @ May 20 2009,15:03) Hi thethinker: Also, you say:
Quote The Bible never says that Gentiles are members of the body of Christ Quote Rom 12:5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
1Cr 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
1Cr 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.
1Cr 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,
The books of Romans and Corinthians were written to Jewish Christians.thinker
Hi thethinker:Are you a part of the body of Christ?
Quote Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (thethinker @ May 22 2009,04:25) Quote (942767 @ May 20 2009,14:59) Hi thethinker: You said:
Quote Marty,
You're not correct. Jesus' ministry was exclusive to the house of Israel. After His resurrection he commanded the disciples to preach to all the nations [of Israel]. This is substantiated by the fact that the apostles never preached to Gentiles in the book of Acts.942767 said:Quote
When he was on earth his ministry was primarily to the Nation of Irael, but no, he was not sent exclusively to the lost sheep of the household of Israel if the intent here is meant to be only the lost sheep of the Nation of Israel. All of us who are in the body of Christ were lost sheep of the household of Israel.Jesus' ministry was exclusively to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jesus never preached to a Gentile. The Bible never says that Gentiles are members of the body of Christ.
Well then what about the following scriptures:
Quote Jhn 4:7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.
Jhn 4:9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.Jhn 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
Jhn 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Jhn 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
Jhn 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
Jhn 4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am [he].
And,
Quote Mat 8:5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him, Mat 8:6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
Mat 8:7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
Mat 8:8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
Mat 8:9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this [man], Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth [it].
Mat 8:10 When Jesus heard [it], he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 8:13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, [so] be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.
And,
Quote Act 10:1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian [band], Act 10:2 [A] devout [man], and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
Act 10:34 Then Peter opened [his] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Act 10:36 The word which [God] sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
Act 10:37 That word, , ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Act 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
Act 10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
Act 10:41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, [even] to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God [to be] the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,
Bd has already answered you about the Samaritan woman. The same principle applies concerning the centurion that approached Jesus. And Cornelius was a proselyte.thinker
Hi thethinker:No, he, BD, gave me an answer regarding the Caananite woman.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (thethinker @ May 22 2009,08:41) bodhitharta said: Quote This is untrue Acts 26:19-21 (King James Version)
19Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Galatians 1:15-17 (New International Version)
15But when God, who set me apart from birth[a] and called me by his grace, was pleased 16to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man,bd,
I have already said that the word “ethnos” should always be translated as “nations” meaning the nations of Israel unless the context indicates otherwise. Our English translations are misleading. If Paul was told to go to non-Israelites then he was disobedient to the vision because he never went to a non-Israelite. Up to the time he faced Agrippa and afterwards Paul never sought out a Gentile. Either “ethnos” means the nations of Israel or Paul was disobedient to the vision. What's your choice?Paul said that the gospel had to be preached to the Jew FIRST.
thinker
Even if you translate it as nations, the nations referred to would be non-Israelite nations. Because the term nations almost always refer to those outside of the House of Israel.So it would seem that in acts he is saying first to the Jews and the other nations. Now keep in mind that he defended the other nations in regards to staying uncircumcised and we know that Jews are circumcised no more than 8 days after their birth. So it is clear that he is talking about Non-Jewish people.
Jesus was not sent to the non-circumcised, he was sent only to the lost sheep of The House of Israel.
Quote (thethinker @ May 21 2009,16:30) thethinker said:
Quote Marty,
The books of Romans and Corinthians were written to Jewish Christians.thinker
WJ replied:
Quote Hi Thinker How do you figure?
Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes, To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, “TOGETHER WITH ALL THOSE EVERYWHERE WHO CALL ON THE NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST-THEIR LORD AND OURS”: 1 Cor. 1:1, 2
Through him and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship “TO CALL PEOPLE FROM AMONG ALL THE GENTILES TO THE OBEDIENCE THAT COMES FROM FAITH.” And you also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ.
“TO ALL IN ROME WHO ARE LOVED BY GOD AND CALLED TO BE SAINTS”: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 1:5-7
Paul never claimed that his writings were for the Jewish Christians only!
Hey WJ,
I bet our unitarian friends here are getting a kick out of you and I sparring lately. It must be entertaining for them to watch two trinitarians going at it.The expression “all men everywhere” refers to Israelites who were scattered all over. Gentiles had not yet been introduced into the covenant at this point. Paul said that the gospel must be preached to the Jew FIRST. Therefore, the apostles could not have preached to Gentiles until all Israel of that generation had first heard the gospel. Christ's mandate to preach to “all nations” referred to the nations of Israel.
The Greek “ethnos” should NOT be translated “gentiles” unless the context requires it. It should simply be translated as as “nations” meaning the nations of Israel.
In Paul's epistle to the Romans he explicitly said that he was speaking to them that “know the law” (7:1). This means that the epistle was addressed to Jews for the Gentiles did not have the law (2:14).
And Paul told the Corinthians that they were being transformed from the image of Moses to the image of Christ (2 Cor. 3:18). By this he meant they were being led out of the external regulations of the old Mosaic covenant and brought into spiritual form of worship that belongs to the new covenant. The former was represented as the “image of Moses” and the latter as the “image of Christ”.
The Gentiles were never under Moses. They were never under the law. They were under a totally different standard. They were under the revelation of God in nature. Therefore, the church at Corinth was made up of Jewish believers.
Again, Paul mandated that the gospel be preached to the Jew FIRST. Paul would not mandate the gospel to be preached to the Jew first and then turn around and give it to the Gentiles before the time. His order was the Jew FIRST and afterwards the Gentiles.
I am done for today. Lord willing I will catch you on the “messengers of satan” thread tomorrow. Grace to you my trinitarian brother.
thinker
Hi ThinkerQuote (thethinker @ May 21 2009,16:30) Hey WJ,
I bet our unitarian friends here are getting a kick out of you and I sparring lately. It must be entertaining for them to watch two trinitarians going at it.
I hope you do not see it as sparing. I realize that when I post I am at times straight forward and a little stern.I suppose it comes from years here of defending what I believe to be the truth.
I am more interested in the truth no matter who it comes from. I have often said here that I will compliment the truth coming from someone no matter who it comes from, but at the same time if I believe something is not true then I may challenge it no matter who it comes from. This should be a growing process for all of us.
Anyway I believe that you are putting a lot of inference into the scriptures and for sure you disagree with most scholars and commentators on this and the subject of Preterism.
Not that you have to go with the majority, but there should be convincing evidence to go against the thousands of scholars and commentators, many of whom have spent their entire lives to bring the truth IMO.
So far I haven’t seen that kind of evidence.
Blessing to you though and have a good night.
WJ
942767 asked:
Quote Thinker,Are you a part of the body of Christ? No I am not a part of the body of Christ. We are not Christ's wife. Isaiah 54 prophesied that Christ's wife would bear children for Him. The wife of Christ was the Jewish believers of Jesus' own generation and all saints after that are her children. Saints today are NOT Christ's body. We are the fruit of that marital union.
The body or wife of Christ is in heaven now. And all her children after her who have left this earth are there too.
942767 wrote:
Quote Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus The word “hellenist” (or “Greek”) refers to Greek speaking Jews. Paul meant this,
Quote There is neither native born Jew or Greek-Jew…for you are all one in Christ Jesus thinker
WorshippinJesus said:
Quote Not that you have to go with the majority, but there should be convincing evidence to go against the thousands of scholars and commentators, many of whom have spent their entire lives to bring the truth IMO. So far I haven’t seen that kind of evidence.
WJ,
Allow me to offer you some evidence which so far no one has been able to disprove. It is my contention that the translators brought their traditions into the Scriptures when translating the Greek ethnos as “gentiles”. Matthew 4 is a clear example of translator bias. Jesus' Galilean ministry was not at all to Gentiles.Quote Now when Jesus heard that John had been put into prison, he departed to galilee. And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the regions of Zebulun and Naphtali, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying “The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, by way of the sea beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the GENTILES” (4:12-15)
The word “ethnos” ought to have been translated “nations” meaning the nations of Israel that were scattered throughout Galilee. Jesus did not preach to the Gentiles during His Galilean ministry. It says that he went throughout all Galilee teaching in the Jewish synagogues,
Quote And Jesus went about ALL Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom (Matt. 4:23) Peter nailed the translator's coffin tight in His words on Jesus' Galilean ministry. He said,
Quote …that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed by the devil. And we are wtinesses of all things which he did both in the land of the JEWS and in Jerusalem (excerpts from Acts 10:34-40) There it is my brother! Matthew's narrative says that Jesus went throughout all Galilee preaching in the Jewish synagogues. Peter nailed the coffin shut by recounting as a “witness” that Jesus' Galilean ministry took place in the “land of the Jews.” And Jesus Himself said that He was sent not but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matt. 10).
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ May 22 2009,17:04) WorshippinJesus said:
Quote Not that you have to go with the majority, but there should be convincing evidence to go against the thousands of scholars and commentators, many of whom have spent their entire lives to bring the truth IMO. So far I haven’t seen that kind of evidence.
WJ,
Allow me to offer you some evidence which so far no one has been able to disprove. It is my contention that the translators brought their traditions into the Scriptures when translating the Greek ethnos as “gentiles”. Matthew 4 is a clear example of translator bias. Jesus' Galilean ministry was not at all to Gentiles.Quote Now when Jesus heard that John had been put into prison, he departed to galilee. And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the regions of Zebulun and Naphtali, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying “The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, by way of the sea beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the GENTILES” (4:12-15)
The word “ethnos” ought to have been translated “nations” meaning the nations of Israel that were scattered throughout Galilee. Jesus did not preach to the Gentiles during His Galilean ministry. It says that he went throughout all Galilee teaching in the Jewish synagogues,
Quote And Jesus went about ALL Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom (Matt. 4:23) Peter nailed the translator's coffin tight in His words on Jesus' Galilean ministry. He said,
Quote …that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed by the devil. And we are wtinesses of all things which he did both in the land of the JEWS and in Jerusalem (excerpts from Acts 10:34-40) There it is my brother! Matthew's narrative says that Jesus went throughout all Galilee preaching in the Jewish synagogues. Peter said nailed the coffin shut by recounting as a “witness” that Jesus' Galilean ministry took place in the “land of the Jews.” And Jesus Himself said that He was sent not but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matt. 10).
thinker
Hi Thinker
Quote (thethinker @ May 22 2009,17:04) WJ,
Allow me to offer you some evidence which so far no one has been able to disprove. It is my contention that the translators brought their traditions into the Scriptures when translating the Greek ethnos as “gentiles”.That may be your contention but it is not at all the facts. At best your contention is ambiguous!
The Hebrew word for Gentiles in the Torah is “Gowy” which means…
1) nation, people
a) nation, people
1) usually of non-Hebrew people
2) of descendants of Abraham
3) of Israel
b) of swarm of locusts, other animals (fig.)
It is translated AV — nation 374 times, heathen 143, Gentiles 30, people 11
Of the 374 times it is translated “nations” it is mostly refering to the Gentile and heathen nations. So do the math.
The Greek NT word is “ethnos” which means;
1) a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together
a) a company, troop, swarm
2) a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus
a) the human family
3) a tribe, nation, people group
4) in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles
5) Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians
It is translated AV — Gentiles 93 times, nation 64, heathen 5, people 2
From what I have seen in the study of these verses (and I read quite a few), most of them are obvious that they are the Non-Jews being spoken of in their context, for instance…
For all these things do the “nations (ethnos)” of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things. Luke 12:30
or
And shall deliver him to the 'Gentiles (ethnos)” to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again. Matt 20:19
You cannot claim that the word should be interpreted only one way when it is obvious that the context demands otherwise. This is what Brenner (Genes Source or the concordant version) does when he claims that the Hebrew and Greek words should always mean one thing. Like the Word (Logos) always means a spoken word.
Blessings WJ
Quote (thethinker @ May 23 2009,08:17) 942767 asked: Quote Thinker,Are you a part of the body of Christ? No I am not a part of the body of Christ. We are not Christ's wife. Isaiah 54 prophesied that Christ's wife would bear children for Him. The wife of Christ was the Jewish believers of Jesus' own generation and all saints after that are her children. Saints today are NOT Christ's body. We are the fruit of that marital union.
The body or wife of Christ is in heaven now. And all her children after her who have left this earth are there too.
942767 wrote:
Quote Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus The word “hellenist” (or “Greek”) refers to Greek speaking Jews. Paul meant this,
Quote There is neither native born Jew or Greek-Jew…for you are all one in Christ Jesus thinker
Hi thethinker:Are you serious?
Love in Christ,
Marty942767 said:
Quote Hi thethinker: Are you serious?
Marty,
I am very serious. Read Isaiah 54 for yourself. The wife of Christ is given this promise,Quote Behold, I will lay your stones with colorful gems, And lay your foundations with sapphires. I will make your pinnacles of rubies, Your gates of crystal, and all your walls of precious stones, And all YOUR CHILDREN shall be taught by the Lord. And great shall be the peace of YOUR CHILDREN…. (vss. 11-13) This is a beautiful picture of Christ's wife. She is pictured as a glorious city with foundations made of precious jewels. Christ's wife is depicted as a city with precious jewels as its foundations in Revelation 21 also. Isaiah says that she will bear children for Christ and that they shall all be taught by the Lord.
Then note what 55:1 says,
Quote Ho! Everyone who thirsts, come to the waters…. In Revelation 22:17 Christ's wife says,
Quote Whosoever will may come and take of the water of life freely If saints today are Christ's wife then she has born no children for Him yet. But Isaiah 54 says that she will bear children and that they all shall be taught by the Lord. We are the new covenant children of Christ's wife.
The apostle's writings were not written TO us. They were written to Christ's wife FOR us her children.
About the Jew and Greek matter. My interpretation is backed up by history. The “Greek” that was a part of Christ's body was the Jew who had been fully inculturated by the Greek manner of life. Only Israelites were members of Christ's body. Only believing Israelites were Christ's wife. As it pertains to Christ's body the distinction between Jew and Greek is one of class among Israelites and not of race. This is substantiated in Rev. 21 where Christ's wife is said to be made up of the twelve tribes of Israel,
Quote Also SHE (the wife) had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and the names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel (vss. 12-13) Read the whole chapter. Christ's wife is pictured as a city with gates. Only the names of the twelve tribes of the children are written upon her gates. The names of Gentiles are NOT written upon her gates. The Gentiles are her children who come into her gates and drink of the river of the water of life freely.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ May 23 2009,14:37) 942767 said: Quote Hi thethinker: Are you serious?
Marty,
I am very serious. Read Isaiah 54 for yourself. The wife of Christ is given this promise,Quote Behold, I will lay your stones with colorful gems, And lay your foundations with sapphires. I will make your pinnacles of rubies, Your gates of crystal, and all your walls of precious stones, And all YOUR CHILDREN shall be taught by the Lord. And great shall be the peace of YOUR CHILDREN…. (vss. 11-13) This is a beautiful picture of Christ's wife. She is pictured as a glorious city with foundations made of precious jewels. Christ's wife is depicted as a city with precious jewels as its foundations in Revelation 21 also. Isaiah says that she will bear children for Christ and that they shall all be taught by the Lord.
Then note what 55:1 says,
Quote Ho! Everyone who thirsts, come to the waters…. In Revelation 22:17 Christ's wife says,
Quote Whosoever will may come and take of the water of life freely If saints today are Christ's wife then she has born no children for Him yet. But Isaiah 54 says that she will bear children and that they all shall be taught by the Lord. We are the new covenant children of Christ's wife.
The apostle's writings were not written TO us. They were written to Christ's wife FOR us her children.
About the Jew and Greek matter. My interpretation is backed up by history. The “Greek” that was a part of Christ's body was the Jew who had been fully inculturated by the Greek manner of life. Only Israelites were members of Christ's body. Only believing Israelites were Christ's wife. As it pertains to Christ's body the distinction between Jew and Greek is one of class among Israelites and not of race. This is substantiated in Rev. 21 where Christ's wife is said to be made up of the twelve tribes of Israel,
Quote Also SHE (the wife) had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and the names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel (vss. 12-13) Read the whole chapter. Christ's wife is pictured as a city with gates. Only the names of the twelve tribes of the children are written upon her gates. The names of Gentiles are NOT written upon her gates. The Gentiles are her children who come into her gates and drink of the river of the water of life freely.
thinker
Isaiah 54
6For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.7For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
This chapter is also very supportive of Islam
Hagar was the women forsaken and she was promised great things by God Almighty!
Quote (thethinker @ May 23 2009,14:37) 942767 said: Quote Hi thethinker: Are you serious?
Marty,
I am very serious. Read Isaiah 54 for yourself. The wife of Christ is given this promise,Quote Behold, I will lay your stones with colorful gems, And lay your foundations with sapphires. I will make your pinnacles of rubies, Your gates of crystal, and all your walls of precious stones, And all YOUR CHILDREN shall be taught by the Lord. And great shall be the peace of YOUR CHILDREN…. (vss. 11-13) This is a beautiful picture of Christ's wife. She is pictured as a glorious city with foundations made of precious jewels. Christ's wife is depicted as a city with precious jewels as its foundations in Revelation 21 also. Isaiah says that she will bear children for Christ and that they shall all be taught by the Lord.
Then note what 55:1 says,
Quote Ho! Everyone who thirsts, come to the waters…. In Revelation 22:17 Christ's wife says,
Quote Whosoever will may come and take of the water of life freely If saints today are Christ's wife then she has born no children for Him yet. But Isaiah 54 says that she will bear children and that they all shall be taught by the Lord. We are the new covenant children of Christ's wife.
The apostle's writings were not written TO us. They were written to Christ's wife FOR us her children.
About the Jew and Greek matter. My interpretation is backed up by history. The “Greek” that was a part of Christ's body was the Jew who had been fully inculturated by the Greek manner of life. Only Israelites were members of Christ's body. Only believing Israelites were Christ's wife. As it pertains to Christ's body the distinction between Jew and Greek is one of class among Israelites and not of race. This is substantiated in Rev. 21 where Christ's wife is said to be made up of the twelve tribes of Israel,
Quote Also SHE (the wife) had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and the names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel (vss. 12-13) Read the whole chapter. Christ's wife is pictured as a city with gates. Only the names of the twelve tribes of the children are written upon her gates. The names of Gentiles are NOT written upon her gates. The Gentiles are her children who come into her gates and drink of the river of the water of life freely.
thinker
No, thinker:Salvation is from the Jews. Jesus took in his body the seed of Abraham, and therefore, the children of God have come forth from the Jews through Jesus Christ.
Some of the natural branches, that is the Jews were broken off because of unbelief, but we believers who have been born again have been grafted in. We are all members of the body of Christ, and Jesus is coming for his bride, which is all of the body of Christ which includes those who are saved in the OT and those who come to God through Jesus, from all nations including the nation of Israel, in the NT. We are all of members of the twelve tribes of Israel.
If you are not a part of the body of Christ, you are not going to float when Jesus comes for the church and we meet him in the air as it is written.
Love in Christ,
Martybodhitharta said:
Hagar was the women forsaken and she was promised great things by God Almighty![/qoute]
bd,
I disagree. Even if you're correct so what? Revelation 21 says that only the names of the children of Israel are written upon the walls of the city. The city is Christ's wife. The names of Gentiles are not written on the walls and the names of the children of Ishmael are not written on the walls. Therefore, only believing Israelites were Christ's wife. All others are her children including the sons of Ishmael.Jesus said that salvation was out of the Jews (John 4). Any promises made to the descendants of Ishmael and all other gentiles came through the Jews.
As usual you rely on old testament passages in your commentaries. You may as well just trash your new testament.
thinker
942767 said:
Quote Salvation is from the Jews. Jesus took in his body the seed of Abraham, and therefore, the children of God have come forth from the Jews through Jesus Christ. Marty,
Thank you! This is exactly what I am saying. Salvation came through Christ's wife, i. e., the Jews. All you need to do now is apply this principle consistently. The wife of Christ subsisted only of Jewish believers and through her gentiles came into salvation. Gentiles are the children of Christ's wife. Every church Paul wrote to was made up of Israelites only.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ May 25 2009,03:18) bodhitharta said: Hagar was the women forsaken and she was promised great things by God Almighty![/qoute]
bd,
I disagree. Even if you're correct so what? Revelation 21 says that only the names of the children of Israel are written upon the walls of the city. The city is Christ's wife. The names of Gentiles are not written on the walls and the names of the children of Ishmael are not written on the walls. Therefore, only believing Israelites were Christ's wife. All others are her children including the sons of Ishmael.Jesus said that salvation was out of the Jews (John 4). Any promises made to the descendants of Ishmael and all other gentiles came through the Jews.
As usual you rely on old testament passages in your commentaries. You may as well just trash your new testament.
thinker
Revelation 2124. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
It seems that what your saying corresponds with the scripture here, it shows that the nations”gentiles” shall walk in the light of it but not live in it.
However, saying there will be a new Jerusalem does not negate their being a new Mecca or any other Holy City as Jesus said my Father has many Mansions.
It's just like when Jesus says “No one comes to the Father except through me” He was talking to those Jews who were rejecting him because he is their Messiah so how can they be saved rejecting their Messiah?
But in the end he won't judge them except according to their works.
Hi BD,
What makes other cities holy?
Scripture calls the new Jerusalem holy.
Men may make similar claims about earthly places.But of what value are the claims of men?
WorshippingJesus said:
Quote You cannot claim that the word should be interpreted only one way when it is obvious that the context demands otherwise. This is what Brenner (Genes Source or the concordant version) does when he claims that the Hebrew and Greek words should always mean one thing. Like the Word (Logos) always means a spoken word. WJ,
As I said originally my evidence has not yet been disproven. Until you explain how the word “ethnos” in reference to Christ's Galilean ministry can mean “gentiles” you have not disproven my evidence. Btw, I said that ethnos must always be translated as “nations” unless the context indicates otherwise. I did NOT say that the word “interpret” and I did NOT say when it is obvious that the context indicates otherwise.thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2009,07:19) Hi BD,
What makes other cities holy?
Scripture calls the new Jerusalem holy.
Men may make similar claims about earthly places.But of what value are the claims of men?
Holy means to set apart for special purpose or use.Scripture calls New Jerusalem Holy but it does not say that New Jerusalem is the Only Holy City, does it?
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