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Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 08 2009,13:51) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 07 2009,15:47) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 08 2009,10:02) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Oct. 08 2009,09:42) “Word” in Holy Scripture often refers to a proclaimed, oral teaching of prophets or apostles. What the prophets spoke was the word of God regardless of whether or not their utterances were recorded later as written Scripture. So for example, we read in Jeremiah: “For twenty-three years . . . the word of the Lord has come to me and I have spoken to you again and again . . . ‘But you did not listen to me,’ declares the Lord. . . . Therefore the Lord Almighty says this: ‘Because you have not listened to my words. . . .’” (Jer. 25:3, 7-8).
This was the word of God even though some of it was not recorded in writing. It had equal authority as writing or proclamation-never-reduced-to-writing. This was true also of apostolic preaching. When the phrases “word of God” or “word of the Lord” appear in Acts and the epistles, they almost always refer to oral preaching, not to Scripture. For example:
“When you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God” (1 Thess. 2:13).
If we compare this passage with another, written to the same church, Paul appears to regard oral teaching and the word of God as synonymous:
“Keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us” (2 Thess. 3:6).
Hi CA:There are prophets even today through whom God will speak to and individual or to the church, and yes, it is the Word of God, but He will not speak contrary to what is written.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Actually CA is right and if you go by the teachings of Paul you have to agree with him too. Paul did preach some things contrary to what Jesus taught and when God sends someone to a people He may permit something that was not previously permitted or He may restrict something that was previously not restricted.Even Jesus said whatever you loose or whatever you bind
Matthew 16:18-20
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matthew 18:17-19
17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
These are the scriptural references.
Today Nick you probably eat pork although at one time it was not permitted.
19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.Was it included or implied in scripture that this verse was also to be passed down to 'popes” who claim to be his successor or that it is even passed down to a successor?
I see it was implied to Peter.
Obviously if it was only implied to Peter then Paul would have not had a leg to stand on. Paul got his instructions according to the scriptures from Jesus and Peter didn't even like the instructions but eventually accepted them.Jesus didn't go to Peter and tell him previously that Paul will come to you and explain that I am sending him to the gentiles
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 08 2009,13:51) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 07 2009,15:47) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 08 2009,10:02) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Oct. 08 2009,09:42) “Word” in Holy Scripture often refers to a proclaimed, oral teaching of prophets or apostles. What the prophets spoke was the word of God regardless of whether or not their utterances were recorded later as written Scripture. So for example, we read in Jeremiah: “For twenty-three years . . . the word of the Lord has come to me and I have spoken to you again and again . . . ‘But you did not listen to me,’ declares the Lord. . . . Therefore the Lord Almighty says this: ‘Because you have not listened to my words. . . .’” (Jer. 25:3, 7-8).
This was the word of God even though some of it was not recorded in writing. It had equal authority as writing or proclamation-never-reduced-to-writing. This was true also of apostolic preaching. When the phrases “word of God” or “word of the Lord” appear in Acts and the epistles, they almost always refer to oral preaching, not to Scripture. For example:
“When you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God” (1 Thess. 2:13).
If we compare this passage with another, written to the same church, Paul appears to regard oral teaching and the word of God as synonymous:
“Keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us” (2 Thess. 3:6).
Hi CA:There are prophets even today through whom God will speak to and individual or to the church, and yes, it is the Word of God, but He will not speak contrary to what is written.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Actually CA is right and if you go by the teachings of Paul you have to agree with him too. Paul did preach some things contrary to what Jesus taught and when God sends someone to a people He may permit something that was not previously permitted or He may restrict something that was previously not restricted.Even Jesus said whatever you loose or whatever you bind
Matthew 16:18-20
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matthew 18:17-19
17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
These are the scriptural references.
Today Nick you probably eat pork although at one time it was not permitted.
19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.Was it included or implied in scripture that this verse was also to be passed down to 'popes” who claim to be his successor or that it is even passed down to a successor?
I see it was implied to Peter.
When Paul instituted the position of Bishop and called himself the spiritual Father of some in scripture yes he did in-fact not only set up the idea of a head father i.e. Pope but I believe that Paul was the very first Pope for Peter never called himself Father of anyone.Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,11:56) Obviously if it was only implied to Peter then Paul would have not had a leg to stand on. Paul got his instructions according to the scriptures from Jesus and Peter didn't even like the instructions but eventually accepted them. Jesus didn't go to Peter and tell him previously that Paul will come to you and explain that I am sending him to the gentiles
BD,Do you agree with this?
The Charge of Distortion of Jewish and Christian Scriptures
Author: Prof. Abdullah Saeed
Publication: The Muslim World. Vol. 92
Publication Date: 2002A significant point of tension between today’s Muslims and the ‘People of the Book’ (Jews and Christians) is the common Muslim belief that the Jewish and Christian scriptures that exist today are corrupted and cannot be relied upon in any matters of faith, religion or law. Although this is a popular view, most classical scholars of the Qur’an were far more cautious in their understanding of Qur’anic texts on this issue. This article explores the Qur’an’s references to distortion of scriptural meaning and text, and the views of scholars, particularly Tabari, Qurtubi, Razi, Ibn Taymiyya and Qutb. Qur’anic words such as tahrif are popularly accepted today as referring to deliberate distortion of scripture; however, classical scholars have interpreted the Qur’an’s references in a number of different ways. Almost all suggested that distortion occurred mainly through interpretation and not in the text itself. Although the Qur’an refers to tahrif (distortion), it also exhibits the utmost respect for previous scriptures. Early Muslims adopted a narrow view of scripture, partly because of the nature of the Qur’an, and also in response to the more established religions of Judaism and Christianity, to assert the ‘purity’ of the Qur’an and Islam. Saeed notes that the Jewish and Christian scriptures that exist today are, according to most scholars, largely unchanged since the time of Muhammad and should be respected now as they were then.
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Oct. 09 2009,12:20) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 09 2009,11:56) Obviously if it was only implied to Peter then Paul would have not had a leg to stand on. Paul got his instructions according to the scriptures from Jesus and Peter didn't even like the instructions but eventually accepted them. Jesus didn't go to Peter and tell him previously that Paul will come to you and explain that I am sending him to the gentiles
BD,Do you agree with this?
The Charge of Distortion of Jewish and Christian Scriptures
Author: Prof. Abdullah Saeed
Publication: The Muslim World. Vol. 92
Publication Date: 2002A significant point of tension between today’s Muslims and the ‘People of the Book’ (Jews and Christians) is the common Muslim belief that the Jewish and Christian scriptures that exist today are corrupted and cannot be relied upon in any matters of faith, religion or law. Although this is a popular view, most classical scholars of the Qur’an were far more cautious in their understanding of Qur’anic texts on this issue. This article explores the Qur’an’s references to distortion of scriptural meaning and text, and the views of scholars, particularly Tabari, Qurtubi, Razi, Ibn Taymiyya and Qutb. Qur’anic words such as tahrif are popularly accepted today as referring to deliberate distortion of scripture; however, classical scholars have interpreted the Qur’an’s references in a number of different ways. Almost all suggested that distortion occurred mainly through interpretation and not in the text itself. Although the Qur’an refers to tahrif (distortion), it also exhibits the utmost respect for previous scriptures. Early Muslims adopted a narrow view of scripture, partly because of the nature of the Qur’an, and also in response to the more established religions of Judaism and Christianity, to assert the ‘purity’ of the Qur’an and Islam. Saeed notes that the Jewish and Christian scriptures that exist today are, according to most scholars, largely unchanged since the time of Muhammad and should be respected now as they were then.
I have reverence for all the words of God and while I understand that there has been distortions I believe the overall content and context remains the same.I am not oppose to any words of God whether written or oral as either can become distorted. I am reminded when Jesus said to Peter “get behind me Satan” and yet Jesus made Peter his successor and so by seeing this it is quite possible to comprehend that in a line of successors corruption can occur but that does not mean all in the line are corrupt.
Anyone who appeals to God directly may receive assistance and revelation therefore Martin Luther could have received assistance to create protestantism and yet the CC could also be equivacated with them in general belief for their is not much difference.
In hinduism there are levels of belief the farther away someone is from God the more they are polytheistic and the closer they are to God the more monotheistic they become they strive to go from Ignorance to God consciousness and even Krishna whom they compare Christ to is called the supreme personality of Godhead so for their benefit they can see God in a person but the practitioner who wishes to go beyond that realizes that God is transcendent of all forms.
In the Bible it is told God is a Spirit worship Him in spirit and truth therefor the physical form that God dwelled in(Jesus) ultimately should not be worshipped as it is still polytheism and ultimately God dwells in all those who believe so worshiping Jesus one would have to also worship all others whom God is dwelling if that is their belief.
“Word” in Holy Scripture often refers to a proclaimed, oral teaching of prophets or apostles. What the prophets spoke was the word of God regardless of whether or not their utterances were recorded later as written Scripture. So for example, we read in Jeremiah:
“For twenty-three years . . . the word of the Lord has come to me and I have spoken to you again and again . . . ‘But you did not listen to me,’ declares the Lord. . . . Therefore the Lord Almighty says this: ‘Because you have not listened to my words. . . .’” (Jer. 25:3, 7-8).
This was the word of God even though some of it was not recorded in writing. It had equal authority as writing or proclamation-never-reduced-to-writing. This was true also of apostolic preaching. When the phrases “word of God” or “word of the Lord” appear in Acts and the epistles, they almost always refer to oral preaching, not to Scripture. For example:
“When you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God” (1 Thess. 2:13).
If we compare this passage with another, written to the same church, Paul appears to regard oral teaching and the word of God as synonymous:
“Keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us” (2 Thess. 3:6).
Hi CA,
You have tradition to justify all your wayward practices as the Word of God is not your guideQuote (CatholicApologist @ Oct. 10 2009,05:37) “Word” in Holy Scripture often refers to a proclaimed, oral teaching of prophets or apostles. What the prophets spoke was the word of God regardless of whether or not their utterances were recorded later as written Scripture. So for example, we read in Jeremiah: “For twenty-three years . . . the word of the Lord has come to me and I have spoken to you again and again . . . ‘But you did not listen to me,’ declares the Lord. . . . Therefore the Lord Almighty says this: ‘Because you have not listened to my words. . . .’” (Jer. 25:3, 7-8).
This was the word of God even though some of it was not recorded in writing. It had equal authority as writing or proclamation-never-reduced-to-writing. This was true also of apostolic preaching. When the phrases “word of God” or “word of the Lord” appear in Acts and the epistles, they almost always refer to oral preaching, not to Scripture. For example:
“When you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God” (1 Thess. 2:13).
If we compare this passage with another, written to the same church, Paul appears to regard oral teaching and the word of God as synonymous:
“Keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us” (2 Thess. 3:6).
This was a good post.
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