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Nick, you are clearly NOT HEARING the WORD!
The firstfruits are WHO? They contain BOTH Jews and Gentiles.
Romans 11:12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness! 13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
Nick, why be so narrow minded? Have ALL the Gentiles accepted Jesus, have ALL the Jews rejected him?
Romans 9:15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. 19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As He says also in Hosea: “I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved.” 26 “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' There they shall be called sons of the living God.”
YHWH has POWER over the clay, if the Firstfruit is Holy, containing BOTH Jews and Gentiles, then the whole lump is Holy, thus every Jew and Gentile will be made holy.
The scripture specifically tells us that God has hardened some hearts, keeping them blind and ignorant, to show His strength to others, having those hardened left in wickedness be destroyed. When this is fulfilled then we are shown that those hardened are raised from the dead, and they too, will obtain mercy, just as the others did.
Nick, did you NOT HEAR Romans 5? MORE people will obtain GRACE and the PROMISE of salvation over all the people who died in the condemnation of sin!! That means ALL in due time receive the promise!
Hi Jodi,
Do you think Jn3 was just scaremongering and all will be saved any way?
No lie was ever found in the mouth of Jesus.Hi Jodi,
If God intended to save all why did Jesus have to suffer and die?
You have a choice to believe in him or notHi Jodi,
Even all Israel is not true Israel but for those who are God holds special promises.[Jl2]
Applying such promises to dead gentiles is far fetched.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 08 2009,09:56) Hi Jodi,
So firstfruits are a selection are they not?
Then why do you offer all mankind as saved??
Huh?The firstfruits are a selection to be leaders for when the rest are then selected.
What part of this don't you get?
For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy
Nick, YHWH MADE the firsfruits holy, they did not make themselves holy. As YHWH can make ONE man holy He can make them all. Scripture shows us that it is His desire according to His plan, to blind some allowing others to gain the promise, but THEN those that were cast out are made holy as well.
Hi Jodi,
It has never been a matter of what God can do, and what we can thus imagine He will do.Apart from His specifed mercy the wrath of God remains on those who reject the Saviour sent by God.[Jn3]
Hi Jodi,
Creation holds it's breath till God declares who are his sons.
The rest face judgement when the 1000 years are passed.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 08 2009,09:58) Hi Jodi,
Do you think Jn3 was just scaremongering and all will be saved any way?
No lie was ever found in the mouth of Jesus.
Nick,Once again I am seeing a narrow minded point of view. You are NOT hearing ALL scripture. Let's consider when Christ returns, many at that time WILL deny him, they will be destroyed. This is ALL BEFORE the second resurrection. YHWH said He would harden peoples hearts, keep them in the dark, allowing them to love their evil ways, until a time that He would have mercy on all, just as the firstfruits obtained mercy.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 08 2009,10:10) Hi Jodi,
Even all Israel is not true Israel but for those who are God holds special promises.[Jl2]
Applying such promises to dead gentiles is far fetched.
Nick,Jesus Christ died so ALL could be made ALIVE, ALL will be resurrected.
The firstfruits at Jesus coming, are the First resurrection, where they spend a thousand years preparing for the second resurrection, where the REST of the LUMP is to be made Holy.
Hi Jodi,
There is no scripture that denies the rescue mission of Jesus.
That opportunity for salvation remains open to others so do not block the door.Hi Jodi,
The opportunity for men to be rescued from the wrath of God is offered though the door of Jesus.
Telling folk they have no need to obey the commands found in the offer of God may block access for some.
Jn3Seems like you are the one blocking the door saying YHWH chooses for some not to enter IN. Even though scripture disagrees with you, you prefer to believe that He will only have mercy on some.
You teach that the Almighty Father is not CONVINCING enough for ALL, only for SOME. Making salvation a work of self righteousness =(, and the work of YHWH NOT GOOD ENOUGH for every man! You teach that His powerful and intelligent Spirit FAILS to fulfill His desire, which is to save every man.
You DENY Romans 5 that teaches us that the number of those saved exceeds the number of all who will have ever died. This means of course that everyone who ever died is saved and those alive when Christ returns are all saved as well. Do the math, that equals every person saved!
Hi Jodi,
So all who have died so far have entered the kingdom of God?
Sounds like a santa myth.After death comes judgement.
Better to have already passed from death to life[Jn5]Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 08 2009,12:32) Hi Jodi,
The opportunity for men to be rescued from the wrath of God is offered though the door of Jesus.
Telling folk they have no need to obey the commands found in the offer of God may block access for some.
Jn3
EXCUSE ME?Seriously Nick, PARDON me SIR, but have I EVER said anything about people NOT needing to follow the Spirit in Christ?
Am I not teaching about judgment, maybe not YOUR definition of judgment, but indeed being cast into the fire as the people were in Zechariah were refined and TESTED was a judgement. People are indeed judged, brought to remorse, the knowledge of their evil ways, creating a repentant heart and a desire to walk in God's ways.
Jesus died so ALL could be resurrected. Jesus was proof of what God's Spirit can do FOR MAN, not just one man, but ALL, that is why he was able to die for ALL our sins.
You think it is a matter of people picking up a bible and believing what it says? I believe it's a matter of YHWH's PLAN when He DECIDES to WORK His Spirit into each soul as He desires. When that Spirit is at work in man IT WILL NOT FAIL.
Those cast away were blinded, and thus they rejected God and were destroyed. These people did not receive the Spirit of love for the truth, they received BY GOD a spirit of blindness. With that spirit they were disobedient. But God WILL give them a NEW heart a NEW spirit as he did with those of the firstfruits, of whom don't forget were also disobedient until they came to know the truth in Christ, and God had mercy on them just as He will have mercy on these.
Ezekiel 36:25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
Nick, who exactly are the people of whom you believe won't receive mercy?
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 08 2009,12:51) Seems like you are the one blocking the door saying YHWH chooses for some not to enter IN. Even though scripture disagrees with you, you prefer to believe that He will only have mercy on some. You teach that the Almighty Father is not CONVINCING enough for ALL, only for SOME. Making salvation a work of self righteousness =(, and the work of YHWH NOT GOOD ENOUGH for every man! You teach that His powerful and intelligent Spirit FAILS to fulfill YHWH”s desire, which it to save every man.
You DENY Romans 5 that teaches us that the number of those saved exceeds the number of all who will have ever died. This means of course that everyone who ever died is saved and those alive when Christ returns are all saved as well. Do the math, that equals every person saved!
Jodi, why did God send his Son into the World? So that the world, “through him” might be saved. What does through him mean?John 3:18 pretty much says it all.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Who is condemned? Those who do not believe on Jesus as their Savior.
1 John 1:5-7
5 Here is the message we have heard from Christ and now announce to you: God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all. 6 So if we say we have fellowship with God, but we continue living in darkness, we are liars and do not follow the truth. 7 But if we live in the light, as God is in the light, we can share fellowship with each other. Then the blood of Jesus, God's Son, cleanses us from every sin
Hi Jodi,
So you preach for men to be reborn of water and the Spirit[jn3] into the death and resurrection of Jesus [rom6]that they then may be able to follow the Spirit gifted to them and for them to walk in the Spirit according to the Word?If so where did you decide all men have already obeyed these commands and since the day of Jesus all have been saved?
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