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Quote (Stu @ Oct. 28 2007,23:36) I have no use for superstition and magic. My universe does not have room for human egocentricism and a special relationship with a being of dubious probity as the explaining principle.
And yet you are here……logging time and making room in your life for the very things that you say are not real?I would like to respond to your posts later this evening when I have more time. Right now I'm being summons to the kitchen where my daughter is waiting to bake cookies.
Have a glorious day! The sun is shining and everything is orange-a-glow outside. I love the fall.
MandyQuote (Stu @ Oct. 28 2007,23:45) Why settle for the broken-down rusty motorbike non-explanation of Genesis when you can have the Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow explanation provided by science?!
Because you have this “Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow explaination” and yet you are here…..browsing amongst all the broken-down rusty moterbikes! Ah, there is something about having the wind in your hair that just makes for a good ride, huh?
It's called freedom. When you are in Christ, you are free indeed!I imagine that if you ever decide to make Jesus the Lord of your life, you would find such freedom. As anyone who has ever come out of bondage can tell you, there is nothing like JESUS.
Jesus is Just Alright!! Remember that 70's hit song by the Doobie Brothers?
Anyway, Stu, we clearly disagree about a lot of things. But we are both human beings who appreciate this earth. I admire your voice and your writing abilities. I always learn something from you, and I hope that you can appreciate that I am on a journey myself. I have very recently given up a lot of man-made traditions and doctrines. I'm not at the end of my truth-seeking journey, in fact I've only just begun.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 29 2007,17:32) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 28 2007,23:45) Why settle for the broken-down rusty motorbike non-explanation of Genesis when you can have the Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow explanation provided by science?!
Because you have this “Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow explaination” and yet you are here…..browsing amongst all the broken-down rusty moterbikes! Ah, there is something about having the wind in your hair that just makes for a good ride, huh? It's called freedom. When you are in Christ, you are free indeed!I imagine that if you ever decide to make Jesus the Lord of your life, you would find such freedom. As anyone who has ever come out of bondage can tell you, there is nothing like JESUS.
Jesus is Just Alright!! Remember that 70's hit song by the Doobie Brothers?
Anyway, Stu, we clearly disagree about a lot of things. But we are both human beings who appreciate this earth. I admire your voice and your writing abilities. I always learn something from you, and I hope that you can appreciate that I am on a journey myself. I have very recently given up a lot of man-made traditions and doctrines. I'm not at the end of my truth-seeking journey, in fact I've only just begun.
I think that sentiment overrides all others. Learning is a life-long activity to be enjoyed.Stuart
Quote Do you wonder about why the animal kingdom displays the same varieties of sexuality as our species? How do you square that curious thing with the one-dimensional and absurd pronouncements of the OT? On behalf of the Murderous One, you state his condemnation of gay people. Do you stone adulterers too?
Stu, I'm curious, have you ever seen a gay animal, or have you just read that this is true and believe it?As I have said, I have a couple of gay friends. Do you think they would be my friends if I preached condemnation? Hardly. On the contrary, I show them that God loves them right where they are. It goes deeper than “…hate the sin, love the sinner…” for me. As I have openly shared, there have been some homosexual feelings aroused within me at one point in my life, and I do not deny that those feelings are real. I denied following through with those feelings because I wanted to please God and not myself. God made Adam and Eve. There is a reason that he made man and women. There is a reason for everything under heaven. It will take our lifetimes to search them all out.
I do not condemn you, Stu. There will be a great many souls surprised on Judgement Day. If I read my bible correctly, liars will be standing right next to the so-called condemned homosexuals.
Quote because of the mental slavery projected onto others by some christians. What ever happened to “judge not…”? That’s a good reason to “not vote for it”.
Yes, sadly, people turn away from a loving God because of un-loving people.Quote ++”Whether you believe in him or not, does not change the fact that he is. Nor does your belief in him make his existence any more likely.
Yes, it does! Yes, it does! Quote I assume you understand the basic principles of forensic science – the police were not in the room when the murder was committed, yet the facts of the case are able to be determined.
And there are convicted criminals on death row for crimes they never committed! Fail-proof facts?Quote How do you know they were wrong and you are not misled?
I could easily ask you the very same question, sir.I know because my God is personal. He is not a statue or a impotent myth. He is the Creator of this world you admire, and he speaks to his children. I have had intimate conversations with my God. My God has healed me physically (doctor's call it “unexplainable”) and emotional damage has been healed. I have heard revelations, words of knowledge; I've had visions and experienced the spiritual battle we are in. I've been visited by an angel, and been saved from a would-be fatal car accident (police and aid worker's called it a “miracle” and they would be correct). I've felt the compassion of my Father, and of my Lord when I cry out for help and comfort. I could go on and on……
How do I know that I am not wrong to believe in God, and his Son Jesus Christ? How do I know that I am not misled? Because the Son has revealed his Father to me in such a way that I can never deny him! In such a way that even though I fight a great many desires and lusts in my flesh – I will always die to self so that I may please the One who reaches down and loves me deeper than anyone ever has or can.
You can't make this stuff up, I'm sorry. It's real. But here's the catch………you must first believe that God is real before you can experience him and understand his benefits.
Quote To then make a special pleading for the value of a relationship with god just leaves me cold. All my experience tells me that the world just isn’t like that.
Yes, I know that you have been disappointed by God and by people. I wish that I could stand in the gap for every Christian who has hurt you and ask that you forgive me (us)? Maybe your heart is so cold that this sounds like nothing but babble to you? I don't know, maybe so….Quote Communication from a god would be fascinating. What do you recommend in the event that Baal is the god that speaks to me?
You made me laugh. Your quick wit is one of the reasons I so enjoy talking with you.
Well, I would recommend that you RUN!
AND FAST! For there is only one true God; the Father who is the Creator of all. Have a good night Stuart,
MandyHi Not3in1
++” I'm curious, have you ever seen a gay animal,
Only on the video links I posted – with some species you would have the problem of sexing them first, but I give more credence to the eyewitness accounts of farmers than to any non-eyewitness account of events like walking on water. Have you ever seen anyone do that? Even on YouTube?
Our relatively close cousins bonobos have sex with anything that looks like another bonobo. It is not necessarily procreative, but is a form of social bonding, maybe like churchgoing used to be!++”God made Adam and Eve. There is a reason that he made man and women. There is a reason for everything under heaven.
What is the reason for black holes? Is it a purposeful one or just the action of gravity on matter?
The evidence clearly says that Adam and Eve are mythological. There are many things that we observe today that are completely inconsistent with such a divine magical arrival of humans.++”I do not condemn you, Stu. There will be a great many souls surprised on Judgement Day. If I read my bible correctly, liars will be standing right next to the so-called condemned homosexuals.
Well, I’m not sure what basis you would have for condemning me anyway. I’m not homosexual, I have not collected sticks on the sabbath and I have not tried to stop holy objects from falling off carts. Perhaps it is the part of the OT about murdering atheists that you rightly ignore? I think it would be a great spectacle on Judgement Day to see god “forgive” homosexuals (on the grounds that if he does condemn them; it would be his hypocrisy for creating homosexuality in the first place) and then condemn creationists as liars (which is what they are). Sadly I am more than 99.9999% sure this will not happen.
Stuart
Hi again Not3in1
Quote
I assume you understand the basic principles of forensic science – the police were not in the room when the murder was committed, yet the facts of the case are able to be determined.++”And there are convicted criminals on death row for crimes they never committed! Fail-proof facts?
How do we know they are innocent, except by forensic or eyewitness accounts?
Quote
How do you know they were wrong and you are not misled?++”I could easily ask you the very same question, sir.
I reject things that cannot be observed or rationally implied from those observations. At least if I am being misled then the very nature of the reality that all of us take for granted is under serious question. Matter is an electrostatic illusion anyway, but you would have to be questioning what it means to existence at all to follow this line of thinking.
++”…You can't make this stuff up, I'm sorry. It's real. But here's the catch………you must first believe that God is real before you can experience him and understand his benefits.
What of the people on other continents who equally vehemently believe the equivalent for their gods? Are they deluded? You religious beliefs are an accident of birth aren’t they? Would you have been christian if you had been born to muslim parents in Iran, or Hindus in India? What would be your testament then?
Quote
To then make a special pleading for the value of a relationship with god just leaves me cold. All my experience tells me that the world just isn’t like that.++”Yes, I know that you have been disappointed by God and by people. I wish that I could stand in the gap for every Christian who has hurt you and ask that you forgive me (us)? Maybe your heart is so cold that this sounds like nothing but babble to you? I don't know, maybe so….
It leaves me cold because of the astonishing fact of our human existence and the beauty we find in the universe and the truth about how that came about which leaves the mythological biblical version as a penny awful fiction in comparison. No, it’s not disappointment. Remember I’ve never believed any of it to be true, so there was never any “let down” here. The fact that christianity makes absurd claims and insists that its adherents believe them to be literally true is not my problem, except when some of them persecute others for not following their warped and narrow views or use public money to spread lies or try to bring on “end times” and other such nonsense at the expense of everyone.
++”Well, I would recommend that you RUN! AND FAST! For there is only one true God; the Father who is the Creator of all.
I hope Zeus is not too upset by this. Maybe you should get a priest to slaughter a goat just in case?
Stuart
There were many “eye-witnesses” to Jesus walking on water; you can find those testimonies in the bible. Just as you believe there are many species that can be homosexual, but you have never seen it yourself but you believe what is written by those who supposedly have witnessed this behavior with their own eyes. Hm, who to believe? Looks like a personal choice to me.
It is written that Jesus walked on the water by eye-witnesses to the fact.
It is written that animals display homosexual tendencies by eye-witnesses to the fact.But you and I have never seen either one! We choose to believe what we want to believe about these things. It is therefore not based on factual information, but on heresay.
Quote The evidence clearly says that Adam and Eve are mythological. There are many things that we observe today that are completely inconsistent with such a divine magical arrival of humans
Indeed, we observe that if there wasn't a man and a women mating together as God has intended it…….we would no longer exist. We would not be blogging right now. Unless, of course, some of the population was designed to just be breeders, while other's were designed to choose their sexual orientation (this is where we are going isn't it?).Quote and then condemn creationists as liars (which is what they are).
Again, fine line here. You are quickly losing my respect, however I doubt it was ever important to you to have my respect in the first place. God did not create homosexuality. If you want to stick within the creationist story, then you must not give him credit for this diversion because he created Adam and Eve, remember? If he is to receive credit for homosexual activity, he would have created possibly two sets of each and said – you choose your sexual orientation – have at it! But he did not. Alas, this has become a dead horse collecting flies. We disagree, and that is OK with me. My peace has returned to me, and I am OK with that as well.Quote (Stu @ Oct. 30 2007,07:37) What of the people on other continents who equally vehemently believe the equivalent for their gods? Are they deluded? You religious beliefs are an accident of birth aren’t they? Would you have been christian if you had been born to muslim parents in Iran, or Hindus in India? What would be your testament then?
Yes, but they believe in their God. You think it's all hog-wash and lies based on myths and culture.Do not think that God cannot make himself real to the Buddhist (I also have a friend who is Buddhist and she has found real meaning in the God of Creation. She is not far from accepting this one true God). Do not think that because I was born in America that I was born Christian. And do not be misled into thinking that those of Jewish parents cannot, while worshipping their God, find the Messiah as well. It happens everyday.
You have turned a blind eye to my inquiring mind…..if all of this is nuts, why do you spend time here? What could you possibly gain by blogging on a Christian site? It seems quite ludicrous to me. The reason being, you are not open to anything here, as you have said, your heart is cold to the “Murderous One.” At least when I check out sites that you and others bring or information that you share, I consider it and am open to it's teaching (knowing that I might change my mind about a certain belief). But with you, it seems, you are closed. So why are you here? Answer the question, if you dare!
Hi Not3in1
++”There were many “eye-witnesses” to Jesus walking on water; you can find those testimonies in the bible.
These days you will only hear of the benefits of promoting smoking written in tobacco industry material. In the same way we read of Jesus walking on water ONLY in the bible and nowhere else. Not one of the gospels is an eyewitness account. None of the Roman diarists recorded it. Not even in Josephus. Historically there is no basis whatever for the walking on water “miracle” and every reason to think it was invented.
++” Just as you believe there are many species that can be homosexual, but you have never seen it yourself but you believe what is written by those who supposedly have witnessed this behavior with their own eyes. Hm, who to believe? Looks like a personal choice to me.
No, you must have missed something. It is nearly ALL species, and did you not see for yourself the video evidence recorded by National Geographic? It is so well documented as a phenomenon that it would be perverse to deny it.
++”It is written that Jesus walked on the water by eye-witnesses to the fact.
Not one actual eyewitness account exists of Jesus doing anything. It is all second-hand stories.
++”It is written that animals display homosexual tendencies by eye-witnesses to the fact.
This is true. And it has been videoed, too.
++”But you and I have never seen either one! We choose to believe what we want to believe about these things. It is therefore not based on factual information, but on heresay.
I do have quite a bit of respect for peer-reviewed science that describes effects I have never seen personally. Is the bible peer-reviewed and open for correction?
Stuart
Hi again Not3in1
++”… Unless, of course, some of the population was designed to just be breeders, while other's were designed to choose their sexual orientation (this is where we are going isn't it?).
Do your really think homosexuals choose their sexual orientation? Why would people choose to be a way that invites so much scorn, especially from people who have more righteousness than compassion?
++” God did not create homosexuality. If you want to stick within the creationist story, then you must not give him credit for this diversion because he created Adam and Eve, remember?
OK. I did say that Adam and Eve are mythological. One important reason is that a single breeding pair of a living thing as complex as humans cannot produce a population because their offspring will lack the genetic diversity needed to avoid genetic disorders appearing due to inbreeding. I have heard arguments like the one that says there has been a degradation in genetic information since “the fall”, but that would require breakneck rates of evolutionary change to give us what we have now. It can’t be had both ways! If there is a genetic basis for homosexuality there is no room but for it to have been created as part of the genome, is there? Either way, the Adam and Eve model is inadequate for explaining reality.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Oct. 26 2007,05:53) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 25 2007,21:10) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 25 2007,19:43) These forums are a safe place for people to express their extrordinary claims without too much question, so you will see it expressed here but not in public as much.
Yeah like that guy who claims to be a descendant of a monkey who keeps raving about the Cosmos coming from nothing.
Where did I say we are decendants of monkeys?Stuart
He he.Are you a decendant of an ape or an ape.
Which is it?
Oh yeah, and where is that banana I asked you to create?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 30 2007,07:55) You have turned a blind eye to my inquiring mind…..if all of this is nuts, why do you spend time here? What could you possibly gain by blogging on a Christian site? It seems quite ludicrous to me. The reason being, you are not open to anything here, as you have said, your heart is cold to the “Murderous One.” At least when I check out sites that you and others bring or information that you share, I consider it and am open to it's teaching (knowing that I might change my mind about a certain belief). But with you, it seems, you are closed. So why are you here? Answer the question, if you dare!
Still no answer, STU?Hi again again not3in1
(Stu)… if you had been born to muslim parents in Iran, or Hindus in India? What would be your testament then?
++”Do not think that God cannot make himself real to the Buddhist (I also have a friend who is Buddhist and she has found real meaning in the God of Creation. She is not far from accepting this one true God). Do not think that because I was born in America that I was born Christian. And do not be misled into thinking that those of Jewish parents cannot, while worshipping their God, find the Messiah as well. It happens everyday.
So you don’t think one’s religious beliefs strongly depend on the parents you have and the culture that surrounds you?
++”You have turned a blind eye to my inquiring mind…..if all of this is nuts, why do you spend time here? What could you possibly gain by blogging on a Christian site? It seems quite ludicrous to me. The reason being, you are not open to anything here, as you have said, your heart is cold to the “Murderous One.” At least when I check out sites that you and others bring or information that you share, I consider it and am open to it's teaching (knowing that I might change my mind about a certain belief). But with you, it seems, you are closed. So why are you here? Answer the question, if you dare!
Don’t think I don’t read the links and watch the videos linked from here. There is much amusement value in some of it. Don’t think I don’t consider what you and others write. i have heard much of it before but I suppose I am curious to see if anyone here can come up with a good argument for creationism. None has. Anyway, science is the answer to your question. I started by writing in t8’s evolution thread. The portal pages to this site still carry lies, but inside the creationists have not fared quite as well, I hope.
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 30 2007,18:13) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 26 2007,05:53) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 25 2007,21:10) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 25 2007,19:43) These forums are a safe place for people to express their extrordinary claims without too much question, so you will see it expressed here but not in public as much.
Yeah like that guy who claims to be a descendant of a monkey who keeps raving about the Cosmos coming from nothing.
Where did I say we are decendants of monkeys?Stuart
He he.Are you a decendant of an ape or an ape.
Which is it?
Oh yeah, and where is that banana I asked you to create?
Hi t8!Are you a gramophone recording stuck in the same groove?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Oct. 30 2007,18:26) Don’t think I don’t consider what you and others write. i have heard much of it before but I suppose I am curious to see if anyone here can come up with a good argument for creationism.
Fair enough, and thanks for answering the question.While I was waiting on you to answer
I popped over to the National Geo site to see if I could find that video you mentioned on gay animal sex. I couldn't find it, but I did read several articles from various folks who claim that it is indeed true – different species engage in bi-sexual or homosexual activities. Hmmmmm…….but can their reports be trusted? Are they eye-witnesses or do they have their own personal agenda and bias in their reporting? I guess you have to trust what their saying is true — or not.If we are not created, then how did we get here?
Not3in1 I posted links here
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….6;st=50
but got lost about where I had posted about animal sexuality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RlTAyNI8WE
was the first one.Stuart
What some people come up with now a days is just unbelievable. Animals being Homosexuals. You know the scriptures tell us at the end times it will be like it was in the time of Sodom and Gomorrah. I tell you we are getting close if not even behind that point with all those weird ideas. Man sure has a vivid imagination. Satan has them really wrapped up. I am so happy I am under Jesus Blood and know what is right and wrong, because the Holy Spirit will tell me.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 30 2007,18:54) If we are not created, then how did we get here?
Well…I know we are rightly skeptical of Wikipedia, but a lot of the science is actually very good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_evolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_formation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_evolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolutionEnjoy!
Stuart
You can bring any kind of tape I WILL NEVER WATCH SUCH NONESENSE. I have animals around here and I see no prove of any such activity.
Quote (IM4Truth @ Oct. 30 2007,19:29) You can bring any kind of tape I WILL NEVER WATCH SUCH NONESENSE. I have animals around here and I see no prove of any such activity.
Then how will you know what National Geographic videoed?If people in the past had simply refused to listen to what evangelists had to say, there would not be very many christians in the world, would there?
Stuart
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