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Hi F4Y,
I agree there is only ONE TRUE GOD.
You say
“2) If Yahshua pre-existed, he was not an El or an Elohim, since there is ONLY ONE TRUE El and ONE TRUE ELOHIM (Rom 16:26).”
and yet also say
“In only a few Scriptures “us,” “we,” and “our” are used with Elohim and Yahweh.”To break no scripture we need 1 Cor 8
“4As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”
God is the Father.
The rest are images.6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”
This passage is better translated as follows:
But to us there is only one Yahweh, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and on master Yahshua Messiah, because of whom are all things, and we because of him.
There is Father Yahweh. Yahweh is one. There is one master Yahshua Messiah. Yahshua is Father Yahweh's son, he is not Father Yahweh. It was Father Yahweh Who anointed (messiah) and appointed his son Yahshua to reign as King for 1,000 years. Father Yahweh would not need to anoint and appoint Himself as King since he was and is our Supreme King already.
It was Father Yahweh's son Yahshua who died for our transgressing Father Yahweh Law. Father Yahweh did not die.
It was Father Yahweh Who raised His son Yahshua from the dead. Yahshua did not raise himself from the dead.
If only you could hear how foolish your reasoning sounds!
Quote “In only a few Scriptures “us,” “we,” and “our” are used with Elohim and Yahweh.” See my web page 'Elohim – Singular Or Plural?' at:http://frank4yahweh.tripod.com/Elohim.html to see by in a few casdes the plurals “us,” “we,” and “our” are used with Elohim and Yahweh.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 28 2006,22:10) 6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” This passage is better translated as follows:
But to us there is only one Yahweh, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and on master Yahshua Messiah, because of whom are all things, and we because of him.
There is Father Yahweh. Yahweh is one. There is one master Yahshua Messiah. Yahshua is Father Yahweh's son, he is not Father Yahweh. It was Father Yahweh Who anointed (messiah) and appointed his son Yahshua to reign as King for 1,000 years. Father Yahweh would not need to anoint and appoint Himself as King since he was and is our Supreme King already.
It was Father Yahweh's son Yahshua who died for our transgressing Father Yahweh Law. Father Yahweh did not die.
It was Father Yahweh Who raised His son Yahshua from the dead. Yahshua did not raise himself from the dead.
If only you could hear how foolish your reasoning sounds!
Amen to most of what you say.
But the Son of God was begotten of God alone as an image without the aid of woman.
Ps 2
” 7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”
and
Jn 8.42
“42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.”He proceeded forth AND came from God.
By him and through him came all things and he has been revealed in the last days to men.
I am happy to appear foolish for the sake of the gospel of Christ.
Nick,
The Psalms of David give prophecies that have been fulfilled and have not yet been fulfilled.
THE SECOND PSALM
And
The Pre-existence of YahshuaBy Voy Wilks
1\31\00Because Ps. 2:2 speaks of “Yahweh and his anointed,” it has been said this indicates Yahshua pre-existed. This is a mistake. The reason:
There is an insurmountable problem with the chronology.
What is the chronology of this bit of history? Psalm two was a prophetic psalm of David, written about 1,000 B.C.E. Therefore the kings and rulers did not gather together against the Anointed One before that time; before 1,000 B.C.E. It was impossible for the kings and rulers to set themselves against the Anointed one before these kings and rulers existed. The Anointed one, and the kings and rulers had to exist at the same time in history in order to oppose each other. The Apostle Peter gives us the correct timing of this prophecy in the Book of Acts.“And when they [the Apostles] heard it, they lifted their voices together to Yahweh and said, Sovereign Yahweh who didst make the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them, who by the mouth of our father David, thy servant, didst say by the Holy Spirit,
“Why did the Gentiles rage, and the peoples imagine vain things? The kings of the earth set themselves in array, and the rulers were gathered together, against Yahweh and his Anointed – for truely in this city there were gathered against thy holy servant Yahshua, WHOM THOU DIDST ANOINT both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, to do whatever thy hand and thy plan had predestined to take place” (Acts 4:24-30, RSV).
Brethern, this was the partial fulfillment of David's prophecy in Psalms 2:1-4. The remainder of the Psalm is yet to be fulfilled. Yahweh has not yet terrified his enemies (Ps.2:5), He has not yet set his Anointed on his holy hill of Zion {in Jerusalem} (Ps. 2:6), but he will do so one day in the future (Isa. 9:6, 7: 59:20, 21; Rom. 11:26; Luke 1:32; Acts 2:30, 31; 1 Cor. 15:26; Rev. 14:1).
“Yahweh has them in derision” (Ps. 2:4). This was in two phases, evidently:
(1) When Yahweh made a laughing stock of his enemies by raising Yahshua from the dead (Col. 2:15; Eph. 6:12); and
(2) In the future when Yahweh terrifies the kings and rulers of the earth.
Psalm 2:8, 9 speaks of a time which is obviously future, even from today. The Saints, under Yahshua's supervision, will rule the earth with a rod of iron (Rev. 2:27).
Conclusion
Now that we have reviewed Psalm 2 and related Scriptures, it seems evident that this Psalm does not qualify as evidence supporting the pre-existence of Yahshua.
The End.
I would also like to inform you of some studies compiled and written by Voy Wilks on the “Trinity”, “Jesus is God” and the “pre-existence” doctrines. I have been greatly blessed in my understanding of Father Yahweh's word because of these studies. They are avialable free of charge with no obligation on your part by e-mailing: [email protected] and specifically asking for the '70+ studies compiled by Voy Wilks on the Trinity, Jesus is God, and pe-existence doctrines'. This groups web site is at: http://www.halleluyah.org . When I received these studies, they came in two seperate mailings because there were so many. A few of these articles are available online at: http://halleluyah.org/Articles.htm . These have been recently added by my request and are maked with a 'New' icon. Also there are some online studies at: http://www.intergate.com/~jcordaro by John Cordaro.
Hi F4Y,
Ps 2 was certainly shown to be fulfilled in type when the worldly leaders opposed the arrival of the Son of David, the new and everlasting King to begin to set up his kingdom, as Peter showed. And the complete fulfillment will be at the return of Jesus to rule from Jerusalem. God is forever with him from his anointing with God's Spirit and God does and will work and rule through him as His vessel.But Ps 2 also contains many other facts including the begettal of the Son.
v7
” 7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”He is the unique and solely derived Son of God.
Quote But Ps 2 also contains many other facts including the begettal of the Son.
v7
” 7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”Yes. This verse just as the other prophetic verses in the context are prophetic and were not yet fulfilled in the time of David. Yahshua in part fulfilled the prophetic word of Yahweh. These passages in no way prove that Yahshua pre-existed his birth.
Quote He is the unique and solely derived Son of God. What you mean by this coment I do not know, but it certainly is not a Scriptural quote.
Take your pick!
monogenesThanks F4Y,
There are lots of opinions about,
but I was asking you
as I can google too.
We should go to the appropriate thread.Hi F4Y,
Do you rate as trivial the description of the nature of the Son of God
and would send me to a multitude of worldly opinions
as if you do not have one of your own?Hi F4Y,
This is what you did say.“Been there! Done that! I'm not going to waste my precious time with such triviality.:D”
What did you mean?
The biggest problem as far as salvation goes in my view is that men deny Jesus is the Son of God. Yet scripture shows us how important it is to know him.
1jn 4
” 9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
11Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
14And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.”
Yep! That is what I said! It is a waste of time to me to continue to argue over some silly Greek word in reference to whether Yahshua is the only begotton son of Yahweh or not with someone who refuses to believe.
I did submit an article to that thread though.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 30 2006,21:00) Yep! That is what I said! It is a waste of time to me to continue to argue over some silly Greek word in reference to whether Yahshua is the only begotton son of Yahweh or not with someone who refuses to believe. I did submit an article to that thread though.
Hi F4Y,
What is it that I am accused of here?
I believe in God and His son.I don't know? Did I accuse you of not believing in “God and His son? I don't believe so!”
I believe the topic of this thread is whether Yahshua pre-existed his birth as a separate being with Father Yahweh in the beginning, right? I believe that you do believe this, right? I do not believe this.
I must go! I'll be back tomorrow!
Hi F4Y,
I believe in the Son of God and so does the writer of the article you posted really believe Jesus is the monogenes Son of God.
Do you not agree with what you posted as an article here?Yes Nick. I believe Yahshua is the son of Father Yahweh. I never said that I did not.
I do not understand why you would want to sidetrack me from this topic and insist that I go to another topic on another thread.
Do you believe that the meaning of the Greek word monogenes relates in some way to this topic or what?
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