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“Hit's and misses” (or is it miss's) Ha!
“What's more likely?” Real versus fake.
These are some of the phrases he used that I thought were interesting.
So what IS more likely? That God doesn't exist or that he does? That Jesus is the Messiah or that he isn't? That miracles happen or there is a natural explaination for them all? That we came from nothing or that we have a Creator?
I guess the answers to these questions are very personal. It depends on what you choose to believe. There is “evidence” for anything and everything. Even the Bang (were you there?), creation (did we witness Adam being formed?).
“What is more likely?” That we came from organisms that mutate, or that a God created us? To me it is more likely, given our complex make-up and systems, that a Creator was involved. The other option calls for greater faith that our complex systems were by chance.
“Real versus fake” Miracles can be documented by Physicians as unexplainable. In other words, there is no “natural” explaination. Why cannot this be deemed a miracle? Why does it have to be classified as “fake” if it cannot be proven?
Anyway, interesting video….
Hi Not3in1
I’m glad you took the time to watch.
++”I guess the answers to these questions are very personal. It depends on what you choose to believe. There is “evidence” for anything and everything. Even the Bang (were you there?), creation (did we witness Adam being formed?).
It is true that we weren’t there at the big bang. We do have plenty of evidence that it happened though. For example the big bang model predicted the microwave radiation that has since been found in space. This is a “prophecy” far more accurate and astonishing than anything the bible can throw up!
++””What is more likely?” That we came from organisms that mutate, or that a God created us? To me it is more likely, given our complex make-up and systems, that a Creator was involved. The other option calls for greater faith that our complex systems were by chance.
We are looking for an explanation and a model that fits the evidence. If we give credit to a creator then how does that explain anything? If it is the creator in the Judeo-christian bible, then how does that fit the evidence? “Chance” doesn’t do the scientific explanation the justice it deserves. It is more than that, and the evidence backs up the explanation for how the complexity came about. There is no honesty in desperately trying to make the explanation fit Genesis when it obviously doesn't.
++””Real versus fake” Miracles can be documented by Physicians as unexplainable. In other words, there is no “natural” explaination. Why cannot this be deemed a miracle? Why does it have to be classified as “fake” if it cannot be proven? Some things ARE unexplainable……what do you do with those things?
This is a very interesting area for the catholic church, which as you probably know has a unit in the Vatican dedicated to investigating and verifying miracles. They investigate, and then vote!
I don’t believe that anything is unexplainable in principle. I think I can come up with a pretty plausible explanation for lots of things. There may be some things for which there will not be much evidence to support the explanation, though.In this video Michael Shermer points out the evolved tendency of humans to look for patterns where there are none, and make poor estimates of how likely something is to happen, mistaking coincidences for miraculous events. I think these two aspects of human nature distort our view of the world.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Nov. 06 2007,21:07) In this video Michael Shermer points out the evolved tendency of humans to look for patterns where there are none, and make poor estimates of how likely something is to happen, mistaking coincidences for miraculous events. I think these two aspects of human nature distort our view of the world.
I agree, and found the example of the song played backwards pretty funny.But it's no coincidence that when I have prayed for comfort, in some of the most desperate times of my life, that the Lord has come to me……being aware of his presence like a wind you can feel moving the hair away from your forehead on a breezy day.
There is no coincidence involved in the fact that my Jeep was spinning out of control on the Interstate after having been rear-ended by a sleepy driver, and I call out to God to save me – and he does! By all accounts (police, aid, fire) I should be dead, and I'm not. Chance? Maybe….but considering how “likely” it was that I should have died, I consider it a miracle.
There is no coincidence involved in the fact that a group of ladies were praying for my healing the moment I went to the Doctor and X-Ray's were read…..having no explaination at what they found! I was healed. Bones were put back into place after they had been shattered. Put back into place as if they had not been broken at all (no creases for healing/calcification). Doctor's said it was “unexplainable”.
There was no coincidence that when I asked the Lord to never leave me, and to promise me that he wouldn't….that a small rainbow appeared in my yard (not in the sky, but from one end of our yard to another). It had not been raining.
I could go on and on. The Lord does things like this for his children. Sometimes you cannot explain them. Even if you are looking for patterns or coincidences….sometimes they lack in giving any evidence or proof that such things actually happen.
I was thinking about you this morning, Stu. As you shared before, you are here to see if anyone has come up with a good explaination for creationism. I believe that there is a part of you that wants to believe it…..if it can make sense to you. There is a part of you that looks up to the sky and while admiring the stars, you wonder if there isn't a God up there, beyond the hemisphere somewhere. In your heart of hearts, you want to believe, don't you?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 07 2007,05:03) [quote= But it's no coincidence that when I have prayed for comfort, in some of the most desperate times of my life, that the Lord has come to me……being aware of his presence like a wind you can feel moving the hair away from your forehead on a breezy day.
There is no coincidence involved in the fact that my Jeep was spinning out of control on the Interstate after having been rear-ended by a sleepy driver, and I call out to God to save me – and he does! By all accounts (police, aid, fire) I should be dead, and I'm not. Chance? Maybe….but considering how “likely” it was that I should have died, I consider it a miracle.
There is no coincidence involved in the fact that a group of ladies were praying for my healing the moment I went to the Doctor and X-Ray's were read…..having no explaination at what they found! I was healed. Bones were put back into place after they had been shattered. Put back into place as if they had not been broken at all (no creases for healing/calcification). Doctor's said it was “unexplainable”.
There was no coincidence that when I asked the Lord to never leave me, and to promise me that he wouldn't….that a small rainbow appeared in my yard (not in the sky, but from one end of our yard to another). It had not been raining.
What a wonderful testamonial.
Tim
I watched too. I've seen this guy many times before. I think I have him on tape a few times. I have always loved debunking many of the same things he has.
I've studied cold reading (basically, saying many things and appearing to get some hits) and hot reading (getting the info beforehand) and it's incredible how awefully easy it is to deceive people. Believe me, I know this more than most.
I actually get quite annoyed with people who believe we're being visited by advanced aliens who need to countlessly conduct experiments on people. How many times does an alien need to do a rectal exam anyway? I would think once would suffice.
It's the power of suggestion. The hypno-therapist re-shaping the memories. For some, it's as simple as seeing these things on Tv or in pop culture and not knowing if that memory is from their life or from something she's seen.
Creating false memories, is another one I love. You can get most people to believe that some event happened to them in their childhood if it doesn't conflict with something they know. They will then create, actually create details to make the story work.
All the spoon benders of the world, etc…there is a foundation called the James Randi Foundation that will pay a million dollars to anyone who can produce anything paranormal under labratory test condictions. The money is safe.
On the idea of miracles, scientists are becoming more and more unwilling to say anything is defintely impossible. They are much more likely now to say only that something is highly improbable. Many things that were once impossible (magic) are now everyday common things.
Scientists say that miracles can't happen because a miracle is a violation of the laws of nature. Well, scientists believe that during the big bang, the laws of nature where nothing like they are now…broken down. Actually, of course, they're trying to see the four forces of nature combined into one. But anyway, the laws start to make very little sense when the universe was being born–for that first 1/millionth of a second anyway.
Yes, humans do want to see patterns. Yes, they are easily deceived and often want to believe things.
They see two horses, they make a pattern between the two. They want tenure and accept what is presented to them, without question.
Quote We are looking for an explanation and a model that fits the evidence. If we give credit to a creator then how does that explain anything?
Michael made this same point in the video. I'm not sure I understand why this is a logical argument.Something happened–the universe and man.
We want an explanation.Let's make it simpler.
Something happened–A potted plant appeared in a room that used to be empty.
As an investigator, we can ask how it got there. We want to know the way it entered the room, how it originated, it's history, etc.
If I “give credit” to steve, the guy who own's the room, I would see this as a plausible 'explanation.' I don't need to know the physics of him walking into the room and setting it there.
You could study this and find the footprints and come up with a workable solution. You could find the math.
Or I could say that Potted plants dont' just appear in empty rooms by themselves and say that it was probably Steve.Is “steve put the plant in the room” an explanation of how it got there?
Or is “God created the universe” an explanation of why there is a universe?Of course, neither of these explanations involve details. Either way, you can study the math (God's footprints) all you want. Your explanation of how God did these things will be the same as mine.
But your question of why these things came about, will be largely different.
Quote (TimothyVI @ Nov. 07 2007,08:39) Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 07 2007,05:03) [quote= But it's no coincidence that when I have prayed for comfort, in some of the most desperate times of my life, that the Lord has come to me……being aware of his presence like a wind you can feel moving the hair away from your forehead on a breezy day.
There is no coincidence involved in the fact that my Jeep was spinning out of control on the Interstate after having been rear-ended by a sleepy driver, and I call out to God to save me – and he does! By all accounts (police, aid, fire) I should be dead, and I'm not. Chance? Maybe….but considering how “likely” it was that I should have died, I consider it a miracle.
There is no coincidence involved in the fact that a group of ladies were praying for my healing the moment I went to the Doctor and X-Ray's were read…..having no explaination at what they found! I was healed. Bones were put back into place after they had been shattered. Put back into place as if they had not been broken at all (no creases for healing/calcification). Doctor's said it was “unexplainable”.
There was no coincidence that when I asked the Lord to never leave me, and to promise me that he wouldn't….that a small rainbow appeared in my yard (not in the sky, but from one end of our yard to another). It had not been raining.
It's occurences like these that just add to the knowledge that God is real, and always there with us through the toughest of times; knowing our needs and wants.
P.S. Let that foolistic theory of evolution and the belief in atheism try to explain this testimony. Oh what is that? What did you say?….What? You can't explain it? Ahhh! Looks like no evolutionist or atheist can explain it.
I watched a video on creation the other day. It was great! They explained that their is no record of creatures changing over time as Darwin said. The proof is that the record shows creatures all of a sudden showing up WHOLE with spinal cords legs etc.
Then they showed the workings of the cell. WOW! you should see that! They have things like motors and gears inside the cell. As one “scientist” said it looked like an “outboard motor”!
More and more scientist are coming to the creation “theory” they aren't getting religious but have to admit according to the proof that things are made by design and not an accident~!
Accidents just don't happen~they are CAUSED~!
Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 08 2007,01:43) I watched a video on creation the other day. It was great! They explained that their is no record of creatures changing over time as Darwin said. The proof is that the record shows creatures all of a sudden showing up WHOLE with spinal cords legs etc. Then they showed the workings of the cell. WOW! you should see that! They have things like motors and gears inside the cell. As one “scientist” said it looked like an “outboard motor”!
More and more scientist are coming to the creation “theory” they aren't getting religious but have to admit according to the proof that things are made by design and not an accident~!
Accidents just don't happen~they are CAUSED~!
Hi KenrchCan you please tell me what the scientific Theory of Divine Creation is, complete with the evidence that it explains, some predictions that it makes, and falsifiability criteria?
No one else on this forum (or indeed anywhere on the planet) has yet done even that, nor has anyone actually disproved the theory of evolution by natural selection.
I think you should pray for the souls of the creationists you have seen who are bearing unbelievable quantities of false witness!
Stuart
Quote (acertainchap @ Nov. 08 2007,00:29) Quote (TimothyVI @ Nov. 07 2007,08:39) Quote (Not3in1 @ Nov. 07 2007,05:03) [quote= But it's no coincidence that when I have prayed for comfort, in some of the most desperate times of my life, that the Lord has come to me……being aware of his presence like a wind you can feel moving the hair away from your forehead on a breezy day.
There is no coincidence involved in the fact that my Jeep was spinning out of control on the Interstate after having been rear-ended by a sleepy driver, and I call out to God to save me – and he does! By all accounts (police, aid, fire) I should be dead, and I'm not. Chance? Maybe….but considering how “likely” it was that I should have died, I consider it a miracle.
There is no coincidence involved in the fact that a group of ladies were praying for my healing the moment I went to the Doctor and X-Ray's were read…..having no explaination at what they found! I was healed. Bones were put back into place after they had been shattered. Put back into place as if they had not been broken at all (no creases for healing/calcification). Doctor's said it was “unexplainable”.
There was no coincidence that when I asked the Lord to never leave me, and to promise me that he wouldn't….that a small rainbow appeared in my yard (not in the sky, but from one end of our yard to another). It had not been raining.
It's occurences like these that just add to the knowledge that God is real, and always there with us through the toughest of times; knowing our needs and wants.P.S. Let that foolistic theory of evolution and the belief in atheism try to explain this testimony. Oh what is that? What did you say?….What? You can't explain it? Ahhh! Looks like no evolutionist or atheist can explain it.
You haven't watched, the video, then?Stuart
I was going to. Maybe I will but that won't change my faith. Then again you probably believe that there is no sense in me watching it if it doesn't have an impact or convert me, Stu. Is that right Stu or am I wrong?
Blessings Stu.Quote (acertainchap @ Nov. 08 2007,06:31) I was going to. Maybe I will but that won't change my faith. Then again you probably believe that there is no sense in me watching it if it doesn't have an impact or convert me, Stu. Is that right Stu or am I wrong?
Blessings Stu.
You are wrong!
I have clearly stated elsewhere here that I have no intention of trying to convert anyone. To what would I be converting them? I resent the feeble attempts that the devout make to convert me.I would like people to have the maximum information so they believe things from a sound basis. Creationism is one such belief. Most people don't have a clue how evolution works, and also think that there is some kind of agreement in science about creationism being a possible explanation. Such people are either ignorant or mad or are out to deceive others. The ones who are genuinely ignorant often don't understand the tendancies of the human brain to find patterns where there are none, and underestimate the number of coincidences they should expect to happen in everyday life. They are swayed by the illusion of design and stop there, not realising that what we observe in life is actually just the opposite of design.
The movie does not specifically question religious faith, it just points out some ways people can be deceived.
Stuart
About the film.
Sure we are subject to the powers of suggestion.
It's blue! Who says it's blue? Who created blue? I say it's green! If their are enough people who say it's green then is it no longer blue?
Again when I received the Holy Spirit all I knew was that I believed in GOD and His Son~that's it!~.
Now their was a person who witnessed to me (the glory be to Jesus who died for me) but this person NEVER said anything about receiving the Holy Spirit.
When I was baptized something happened I was MOST Happy but it wasn't like the happy, joy, I knew then the PEACE came which blew my mind.
I went to Pete (who witnessed) and asked what was going on? You know what HE DIDN'T KNOW!!!!!!! This is what he said “DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT”. It wasn't until I went to an Assembly of God church when everything was explained to me. Why didn't Pete know? He was Baptist.
Religion in one way or another, sooner or latter, to those who seek the truth, LIES!!!
The result of religion is STU, TOW.
The result of the Spirit are children of God.
No restrictions (rules) only obedience.
1Jo 2:27 But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything–and is true and is no lie, just as it has taught you–abide in him.
Rom 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
BTW I enjoyed the commercial at the end of the film of this “non-profit” organization.
Hi Kenrch
++”It wasn't until I went to an Assembly of God church when everything was explained to me. Why didn't Pete know? He was Baptist.
Those evil baptist splitters! They wouldn't know the holy spirit if it bit them on the backside! Yes, we are very susceptible to the power of suggestion by others. Sadly those others are often ignorant (or self-interested) people and in my experience there are many like that who preach in churches.
++”Religion in one way or another, sooner or latter, to those who seek the truth, LIES!!! The result of religion is STU, TOW.
Would you care to explain yorself, Kenrch? How am I the result of religion?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Nov. 09 2007,18:52) Hi Kenrch ++”It wasn't until I went to an Assembly of God church when everything was explained to me. Why didn't Pete know? He was Baptist.
Those evil baptist splitters! They wouldn't know the holy spirit if it bit them on the backside! Yes, we are very susceptible to the power of suggestion by others. Sadly those others are often ignorant (or self-interested) people and in my experience there are many like that who preach in churches.
++”Religion in one way or another, sooner or latter, to those who seek the truth, LIES!!! The result of religion is STU, TOW.
Would you care to explain yorself, Kenrch? How am I the result of religion?
Stuart
Stu how would you know NOT to believe. Baptist are just one of the harlot's daughters
Anyone who can think can see the “REV” rolling down the street in his fine automobile and living in his 23 room house.
But the daughters have a lie wrapped in truth. You have to dig a bit to see the lie, sadly most don't especially those who were raised in that particular denomination (daughter).
So religion chases off people who do not want to believe in some one who is in charge. SEE?
HEY! I'm not suppose to be talking to you!
Satan joined the church Stu. Then he chased you off to his church. The one that you believe you are in charge of.
Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 10 2007,04:18) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 09 2007,18:52) Hi Kenrch ++”It wasn't until I went to an Assembly of God church when everything was explained to me. Why didn't Pete know? He was Baptist.
Those evil baptist splitters! They wouldn't know the holy spirit if it bit them on the backside! Yes, we are very susceptible to the power of suggestion by others. Sadly those others are often ignorant (or self-interested) people and in my experience there are many like that who preach in churches.
++”Religion in one way or another, sooner or latter, to those who seek the truth, LIES!!! The result of religion is STU, TOW.
Would you care to explain yorself, Kenrch? How am I the result of religion?
Stuart
Stu how would you know NOT to believe. Baptist are just one of the harlot's daughters
Anyone who can think can see the “REV” rolling down the street in his fine automobile and living in his 23 room house.
But the daughters have a lie wrapped in truth. You have to dig a bit to see the lie, sadly most don't especially those who were raised in that particular denomination (daughter).
So religion chases off people who do not want to believe in some one who is in charge. SEE?
HEY! I'm not suppose to be talking to you!
Satan joined the church Stu. Then he chased you off to his church. The one that you believe you are in charge of.
Hmmm. I feel like there is a whole chapter missing from my dictionary here.I don't remember being chased off by satan. My school friend Jonathan once chased me around the paddock at primary school. Do you think he is satan?
I do like the “daughters wrapped a lie in truth” bit. To me christianity is a truth (the golden rule) wrapped in lies.
Stuart
I saw a horse with 2 heads and 8 legs the other day.
Wait a minute, maybe it was 2 horses standing together.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 12 2007,13:56) I saw a horse with 2 heads and 8 legs the other day. Wait a minute, maybe it was 2 horses standing together.
The NZ Skeptics website homepage tells us, “When you hear the sound of hoofbeats in the night, think first of horses, not zebras”.See
http://www.skeptics.org.nz/SK:STCREATIONISM
for material that might be of particular interest to readers here…
Stuart
“'Conclusion
Why should anyone trust in Christianity over Islam, Buddhism, Mormonism, or anything else? It is because there are absolute truths, because only in Christianity is there accurate fulfilled prophecies of a coming Messiah. Only in Christianity do we have the extremely accurate transmission of the eyewitness documents (gospels) so we can trust what was originally written. Only in Christianity do we have the person of Christ who claimed to be God, performed many miracles to prove His claim of divinity, who died and rose from the dead, and who said that He alone was the way the truth and the life (John 14:6). All this adds to the legitimacy and credibility of Christianity above all other religions — all based on the person of Jesus. If follows that if it is all true about what Jesus said and did, then all other religions are false because Jesus said that He alone was the way, the truth, and the life and that no one comes to the Father except through Him (John 14:6). It could not be that Jesus is the only way and truth and other religions also be the truth.
Either Jesus is true and all other religions are false or other religions are true and Jesus is false. There are no other options. I choose to follow the risen Lord Jesus. '”
I found this and thought that it would be of particular interest.
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