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Jodi Posted this somewhere, and I just want to get some thoughts on the Issue.
Why is the bible so difficult to understand?
Jodi Lee posted somewhere:
Proverbs 16:7 When a man's ways please the Lord, He makes even his enemies to be at peace with him.
Someone please correct my understanding…
If that proverb is true, apply it Jesus.His ways apparently pleased the lord, yet his enemies were definately not at peace with him.
Even God's enemies aren't at peace with him…and there are those that deliberately hate him and wage war.
So in what way is that proverb true?
RM,
If you were a Police Officer what would you do if you were confronted by a monstrous guy with rippling muscles raging at you and refusing to cooperate over some issue.
Here is a good coping mechanism: Appeal to his sense of peace:
“Ok, Ok, I understand you have an issue. I'm willing to listen to you – I don't want to arrest you – Yes, you are scary but remember that the law is scarier – not me – the Law – Yes you could hurt me but then what? You would be hurting yourself – do you really want to do that. Now, just calm down for a second – I understand – and I'll let you aire your grievance once you allow me to do my job – agreed? – I do my job – I let you speak, yeah. Ok that better, Now ok cuffed – so I done my part – tell me what was troubling you I promise I will tell the judge you cooperated, now in you go.”RM,
Analyse the scenario:
The officer could get really hurt despite his 'protection in being a lawman'
The offender is raging – doesn't know what he is doing – just angry…
His rage is his weapon as well as his strength.So, DISARM HIM… with kindness:
“I understand your issue” – he won't believe this but its a start
“I'm willing to listen” – An angry person really wants someone to hear him.. so be that person for him – beget him in that moment – be his father.
“I don't want to arrest you” – Let him know you represent authority but you won't use it of he cooperates.
“Yeah, y'ar a big scary ape!” Ha – show him a vulnerable part of yourself – palms up and out – figuratively
“Let him know that this won't help him in the long run – “Yeah but ya seen my wife – don't let me let her out on ya – Oh I meant The law is scarier!”
“You are only hurting yourself” – Turn the tables on him – let him look at himself in your place – why would he want someone to hurt him…?
Ok, so now he's thinking – means he ain't raging – so appeal to him again and make him an offer he can't refuse, a compromise – a PROMISE – and KEEP IT.
So now he's ALLOWED you to cuff him and put him in the meat wagon – now – run like hell….Quote (JustAskin @ June 01 2010,06:24) RM, If you were a Police Officer what would you do if you were confronted by a monstrous guy with rippling muscles raging at you and refusing to cooperate over some issue.
Here is a good coping mechanism: Appeal to his sense of peace:
“Ok, Ok, I understand you have an issue. I'm willing to listen to you – I don't want to arrest you – Yes, you are scary but remember that the law is scarier – not me – the Law – Yes you could hurt me but then what? You would be hurting yourself – do you really want to do that. Now, just calm down for a second – I understand – and I'll let you aire your grievance once you allow me to do my job – agreed? – I do my job – I let you speak, yeah. Ok that better, Now ok cuffed – so I done my part – tell me what was troubling you I promise I will tell the judge you cooperated, now in you go.”
Yet there are plenty of cops who are murdered?Yes that may work in a specific scenario, but not always.
And Nick…you're right, some of Jesus' enemies became his friend.
My problem is that the verse poses it's ideas as an absolute.
But we all know it is not. At least not on this earth we live in.RM,
Is this the only proverb that poses a problem taken literally!
Or do all the others, hundreds of them, all otherwise make sense in ALL circumstance.
“Go to the Ants” … Why? they do things by rote – creatures of pure habit… No, it's meant just to show their industrious nature – unrelenting dedication and 'Worship in service' to their queen. No such thing as 'dishonour'. Are we to be ANTS, except Intelligent ANTS, Free Will Ants, to God.
Quote (JustAskin @ June 01 2010,06:46) RM, Is this the only proverb that poses a problem taken literally!
Or do all the others, hundreds of them, all otherwise make sense in ALL circumstance.
“Go to the Ants” … Why? they do things by rote – creatures of pure habit… No, it's meant just to show their industrious nature – unrelenting dedication and 'Worship in service' to their queen. No such thing as 'dishonour'. Are we to be ANTS, except Intelligent ANTS, Free Will Ants, to God.
No it's not the only verse in the bible that poses a problem.But if you can answer it, correctly.
Then maybe we can begin truthfully deciphering the bible in the right way.
Because the same dillema we have with understand this simple verse…is the same giant catastrophe we have in understanding trinitarian views, when satan fell, the rapture, ect…
So do us all a favor and stick to the topic, by trying to answer it.
Don't raise more questions, or we will never get to the answer.
Thanks.
Yes, RM, some cops think they are God and mix up the order – they try to arrest before they have pacified.
Others run before doing the cuffing – and others are truly scared and show it.No dishonour to the true cop who meets a psycho – that's not in my scenario – nor is it part of yours – because even God's people were killed in the arena, by robbers on the highway, even while professing God and Jesus, even FOR professing God and Jesus.
Marry the Proverb to the situation – then it works. You don't put SALT into every type of meal even though Proverbs says Salt is condiment and provides for good taste – meaning Good attitude brings out the flavour of a man. (but that It's Ok to be angry over some things – Even Jesus demonstrated this – The money changers in the temple – the Tree that didn't bear fruit (even though it wasn't it's season – It should have knwn Jesus and produced it – this would have shown Jesus having POWER OVER ALL THINGS – so he showed his Power in another way by destroying it in one day – and likened it to the kingdom of the wicked who will likewise not bear fruit and will be destroyed 'in one day')
Quote (JustAskin @ June 01 2010,06:55) Yes, RM, some cops think they are God and mix up the order – they try to arrest before they have pacified.
Others run before doing the cuffing – and others are truly scared and show it.No dishonour to the true cop who meets a psycho – that's not in my scenario – nor is it part of yours – because even God's people were killed in the arena, by robbers on the highway, even while professing God and Jesus, even FOR professing God and Jesus.
Marry the Proverb to the situation – then it works. You don't put SALT into every type of meal even though Proverbs says Salt is condiment and provides for good taste – meaning Good attitude brings out the flavour of a man. (but that It's Ok to be angry over some things – Even Jesus demonstrated this – The money changers in the temple – the Tree that didn't bear fruit (even though it wasn't it's season – It should have knwn Jesus and produced it – this would have shown Jesus having POWER OVER ALL THINGS – so he showed his Power in another way by destroying it in one day – and likened it to the kingdom of the wicked who will likewise not bear fruit and will be destroyed 'in one day')
You sir have answered my question. Whether you know it or not.In other words…for mankind. Nothing is an absolute.
You said that when you said, marry the proverb to the situation.
So it's situational…it's a good foundation to start but it doesn't ALWAYS HOLD TRUE.
And that's the point i was trying to make.
Just like salt.
It's a good place to start to spice up your food if it's dull…but it doesn't work on all meals.
God loves us, that's also another absolute.
Yet people don't take christianity seriously, because we form these absolutes like God loving us…yet he sends us to hell to suffer and burn (or allows it).
The point i want to make, is that…even absolutes change depending on the situation.
On earth, gravity is an absolute? Yet it will be defied some day some way.
I'm going to finish this in the next post and come to my point.
My Point
God loves us, but his hatred is demonstrated when we reject him.
His love is absolute, but based on your situation…you may not receive it.
It takes a wise man to understand what i'm trying to say.
But all these absolutes you all try to create from reading the scripture…is all foolish.
Like the trinitarian absolute…how dispicable…how can yuo fight an infinite eternal being into only three manifestations?
And the anti-trinitarian absolute, that Jesus is just a man?
Although he's the only man according to our faith to be born a virgin birth.To me that seems supernatural and could of only taken place if God was involved.
Well if God calls him God.
Labels him the only begotten of The Father.
The fullness of God dwells within him.
He can be prayed to and worshipped.
God is sharing his glory with him by those very means
And in his name, demons are seized and banished.
Then Jesus too is God.But back to my point….
It's foolish to create absolutes for anything we read or know.
There are always going to be 2 sides to the fence.
And the only person who can tell us the true absolute is God himself.
You see, reading the word itself doesn't permit you to truth.
Cuz with knowledge you must also have understanding.
And if you don't have understanding..then you can't receive TRUTH that also comes from The God that will give you the understanding to decipher the truth.
So continue making your foolish absolutes and trying to shove it down people's throat.
Even my own absolutes are more than likely innaccurate…and the only place i can get full 100% truth about the Gospel, is in heaven…with God, when i'm dead.
Until then, i'm done trying to shove my ideas into everyone else.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2010,08:33) Hi RM,
No God was in him.
2Cor5
I agree….God was in the Man Jesus Christ.And Jesus Christ not the flesh but the spirit comes from YHWH himself….uniquely, like no other being in creation does.
Two absolutes that I dare not touch, hence i call myself a trinitarian or anti-trinitarian…
I'll let you continue to keep a label/stamp on your forehead tho.
Hi RM,
Rather than philosophising why not follow Jesus?
He said we would do greater things than he did.Quote (RokkaMan @ June 01 2010,07:53) My Point God loves us, but his hatred is demonstrated when we reject him.
His love is absolute, but based on your situation…you may not receive it.
It takes a wise man to understand what i'm trying to say.
But all these absolutes you all try to create from reading the scripture…is all foolish.
Like the trinitarian absolute…how dispicable…how can yuo fight an infinite eternal being into only three manifestations?
And the anti-trinitarian absolute, that Jesus is just a man?
Although he's the only man according to our faith to be born a virgin birth.To me that seems supernatural and could of only taken place if God was involved.
Well if God calls him God.
Labels him the only begotten of The Father.
The fullness of God dwells within him.
He can be prayed to and worshipped.
God is sharing his glory with him by those very means
And in his name, demons are seized and banished.
Then Jesus too is God.But back to my point….
It's foolish to create absolutes for anything we read or know.
There are always going to be 2 sides to the fence.
And the only person who can tell us the true absolute is God himself.
You see, reading the word itself doesn't permit you to truth.
Cuz with knowledge you must also have understanding.
And if you don't have understanding..then you can't receive TRUTH that also comes from The God that will give you the understanding to decipher the truth.
So continue making your foolish absolutes and trying to shove it down people's throat.
Even my own absolutes are more than likely innaccurate…and the only place i can get full 100% truth about the Gospel, is in heaven…with God, when i'm dead.
Until then, i'm done trying to shove my ideas into everyone else.
RMyou say;; Posted: June 01 2010,07:53
——————————————————————————–
My PointGod loves us, but his hatred is demonstrated when we reject him.
His love is absolute, but based on your situation…you may not receive it.
It takes a wise man to understand what i'm trying to say.
But all these absolutes you all try to create from reading the scripture…is all foolish.
Like the trinitarian absolute…how dispicable…how can yuo fight an infinite eternal being into only three manifestations?
And the anti-trinitarian absolute, that Jesus is just a man?
Although he's the only man according to our faith to be born a virgin birth.To me that seems supernatural and could of only taken place if God was involved.
Well if God calls him God.
Labels him the only begotten of The Father.
The fullness of God dwells within him.
He can be prayed to and worshipped.
God is sharing his glory with him by those very means
And in his name, demons are seized and banished.
Then Jesus too is God.But back to my point….
It's foolish to create absolutes for anything we read or know.
There are always going to be 2 sides to the fence.
==================================
you have to consider the total bible so that the understanding is right,and after that you may ask for the spirit of Christ to help you to see ,what it seems you do not see now.
there is only one side to God, but for the ones that only look at there own side there always will be two.
there is more to God than just the bible,there is more to Christ than is birth and dead.Pierre
Hi RokkaMan.
May I give my opinion? Our God is a loving God, what you quote in Proverbs 16:7 may not apply to the present, but to the future. God is the saviour of ALL mankind, (1Tim.4:10 …that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers). He will perfect all during this period of creation, giving us the knowledge of “good and evil”. At the consummation, the completion of His creation, Christ will have defeated all His enemies, (All will have been pefected during this evil eon) and He will hand over the kinkdom to the Father, who then “will be All in all” (1.Cor.15:22-28 … For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.
23 Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence;
24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.
25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)This is how I see it, that this verse in Proverbs describes the future, not the present. I may be wrong, I'm not infalible, prone to error as anyone in this present eon.
Hope you will consider this possability.God Bless, Jerry.
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