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Originally posted by peter.
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Why is everything god wants us to know and do so difficult to understand ?? surely him knowing and creating man as he has , he must know we are thick by his standards, simply saying you should have faith without proof is like sending money to a mail order ad promising riches !! the book of enoch is excluded from the bible … why. as is the book of thomas…why?? should we therefor believe the rest without question, or should we discount these two, i am so confused yet all i want to do is live a happy and peaceful existence, why is it so hard to do that here on earth in crime. depravation and corruption ?? if there is something better for us why cant we have that now , why do we have to suffer and what guarantee is there, even Jesus doubted his faith on the cross , why cant we!! God should make it easier for us, if this is some sort of test … there should be a clear end result. he says he loves us yet makes things so hard to understand, even for those who just want to believeThe things of God are difficult for us to understand because of us, not God. We (Mankind) has chosen to go his own way rather than follow in the will of God, so we have become alienated by God and we do not understand God nor do we here him.
As you are most likely aware God has reached out to Man by sending his only begotten son to this world to die the death of a sinner in order to pay the price for our penalty, namely death.
So yes the things of God are difficult, if not impossible to fathom, with our human spirit as the following scriptures points out.
1 Corinthians 2:11
For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.So yes it is impossible to know God in our own spirit, but if we have the Spirit of the Living god inside us, then we can know the One True God.
In order to be filled with God's Spirit we must be in a state of repentance, that is to discontinue with living a life of sin. When we have done this, we will still sin as our sinful nature is still with us (till we die), but we will also be able to live in righteousness through the Spirit. We must also believe that Jesus Christ is from God and that he is God's Son. In this, he (Jesus) presents us to his God as holy and blameless.
In order to accept salvation from God through Christ, you can confess with your speech that Jesus is the Christ and that he was raised from the dead. To confirm this, you should be baptized in Jesus name by another believer.
You can only know God if his Spirit lives in you, and for his Holy Spirit to live in you, you must be holy and without sin. This is only made possible by your sin being taken away by Christ. It is in Christ's righteousness that you can live.
I will post the answer to the rest of your questions in the next post.
to peter,
You then said in your post the following:
“simply saying you should have faith without proof is like sending money to a mail order ad promising riches”
But God has given us great proof that he exists.
Rom1:19,20
it says: “For what can be known about God is evident to them. Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result they have no excuse.”The evidence that there is a God is absolutely conclusive. Only a fool could say that there is no God with all the proof that is around him.
As it says in Psalms 14:1:
“The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God…”I have written an article on this particular subject. If you are interested then follow this link.
http://heaven.net.nz/answers/answer02.htm
You then say:
“the book of enoch is excluded from the bible … why. as is the book of thomas…why?? “Well man in his wisdom has decided on what books are scripture and what ones are not. Even though some of this process has it's merits, such as excluding books that have been obviously tampered with, it is still a fallible process and I am sure that scripture exists outside of the Bible. This is something that you can make your own mind up on. I consider many of the second century letters by the Apostolic fathers to be scripture. If you read a writing and God speaks to you through it and confirms it's message as originating in him (God) then you have your answer. Our faith is not about what is right or wrong, but about listening to God everyday and following him. It is a real relationship, not simply a code of ethics.
You then said:
“why do we have to suffer and what guarantee is there”We suffer because we (man) have chosen our own path and the only path that leads to life, peace and love is narrow, but there are many who choose the wide path to destruction. So to eliminate suffering for sins sake, we need to walk on the straight and narrow. Of course in this world there is no guarantee that everything will be rosy, because we share this planet with murderes, theives, liars, adulterers and slanderers. But we can eliminate the consequenses of our own sin by confessing our sins to God and he will forgive us. Paradise is in the next life where no murderer, liar or thief will be able to enter.
You then said:
“even Jesus doubted his faith on the cross”I take it that you are referring to Mark 15:34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?”–which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”Well besides being cut of from his God for taking our sin on himself, there is a deeper mystery at work here.
In those days it was tradition to quote the first sentence of a Psalm, then the hearer would then recite that Psalm. This was done in order to remember scripture. When Jesus uttered the words “My God my God why has thou forsaken me”, he was actually quoting Psalm 22.
Here is an edited version of that Psalm.
1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?…………
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads:
8 “He trusts in the LORD ;
let the LORD rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him.”
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted away within me.
16 Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced [3] my hands and my feet.
17 I can count all my bones;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my garments among them
and cast lots for my clothing.So you can plainly see here that Jesus was showing his hearers that scripture/prophecy was coming to pass before their very eyes. Perhaps this is one of the reason why those who were watching said the following:
Matthew 27:54
Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.So peter, I just want to remind you that this world is a test for us and our reward is the next world. If we are faithful to God whom we cannot see, then in the next world we can never fall away from God as we are his Elect.
Remember that Satan was once perfect and in that perfect place he chose to rebel against God. He enticed one third of the angelic host to follow his destructive way. But our enticement is here and now and if we still choose to follow God, then that is what we choose and this decision will follow us for all eternity.
To become a son of God 2 things need to happen. We need to be created first in order to exist and then we need to choose God (born of God). Not all who are created choose God. But if we choose God, we will surely live.
This is my take, Its not mans fault?? GoD made us and new what we would do, He set the paramaters, he marked out how smart we are, Look at the animals, If it were a creations thing to know your creator, then they would talk aswell. It is even and fair, its a prize cause its hard.
It is because of GoD's will that Men stumble and fall, Because GoD would rather destroy something that is rebelous to him, than endure it for too long.
Hell sound familiar???
Here within the ristrictions we are set, GoD rewards us according to what we do, then off basic obediance , he hands us over to more, Wrong, If we do what is Wrong,,, Or hands us over to do More of what is Right if we Do what is right.
GoD is not Moked a man reaps what he SoW;s
Hi All:
God is love , Job spoke about his stature of his countence. Man grows in experience in all things. Even in love. We see the troubles, yet we do not change, we say we have faith, God says good , show me 'BY' thy works. We trust in man and end up in confusion. The Word says, Study the scriptures. We cannot add to the word of God or take away from it. Yet, men say, oh yeah we can, so they began to write another covenant; bringing it to 3 covenants. The Old then the New , then whatever feels good. The Isrealites thought that too, but God knows exactly what He is doing for all of us. Job said “Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews. and , Thou hast granted me life and favour, and Thy visitation hath preserved my spirit”. He knew the love of God and he remembered his first love through it all and he was victorious for eternity…..
I found this old thread and wondered if we could kick it around some? It has a lot of hits, but not so many posts.
Quote (t8 @ April 12 2004,12:14) But God has given us great proof that he exists. Rom1:19,20
it says: “For what can be known about God is evident to them. Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result they have no excuse.”The evidence that there is a God is absolutely conclusive. Only a fool could say that there is no God with all the proof that is around him.
Hi T8,The evidence is there. But the Cannanites believed there was a God and they prayed to Baal.
The American Indians believed there was a God and they prayed to the great spirit.
The Muslims believe there is a GOd and they pray to Allah.
Etc. etc. etc.Where is the proof that the Hebrew God is the right one?
Or that everyone is not worshipping the same God, only with different names for that matter?Tim
Hi:
The following scripture is the answer:
Quote 1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.Even when one does have the Spirit of God through the born again experience, it takes study and prayer asking God for understanding on some things that are written.
Also, there are many born again Christians who in their zeal go out trying teach others before they are ready (I know I have been guilty of this). One cannot teach others before one is taught himself.
And in church, in the pulpit, there are pastors who have gone to the seminary and they have their degree or degrees, but they have not been ordained by God. It takes a combination of study (the seminary is a good thing for this) and experience. In any case the Word of God is true, but without expeiental knowledge, the Word of God is not real in the person's life.
There are also those who are not born again who are trying to teach others about God.
The latter and those who go before they are ready to teach others adds up to confusion.
In addition, there are those who believe that their doctrine is correct, and so instead of discussing their differences with those in the church, they go and form their own denomination.
Also, there is this religion and that religion who believe that they are teaching the truth, and it add to the confusion.
Finally, I also believe that I am teaching the truth, but there may be some scriptures where my understanding may not be correct, and I pray to God every morning that if I am teaching anything that is not correct that He correct me. I know that I am teaching the truth about the reality of God and that Jesus is His only begotten Son and His Christ, of this there is no doubt.
Unlitimately, if God confirms what someone is teaching, it will be Him that is saying that someone is teahing the truth, and not just the person believing that he is right in what he is teaching. He confirmed what Jesus and the Apostles were teaching with miracles and signs and wonders following.
I have shared with you in my personal testimony that I anticipate God using me as a Bishop or overseer in the church. When it happens, you will know that I have told you the truth. Is it possible for me to misunderstand? Yes, of course, it is, but the future will reveal this to both me and you. I don't believe that I have made a mistake, but we shall see.
God Bless
But I have the spirit of God. How come I don't undertand?
I have studied and prayed until I'm purple. Just look at my Avatar!
Hi Mandy:
Perhaps it is because you failed to heed God's warning to you. Please refer to your post here:
Quote https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=Post;CODE=06;f=17;t=1625;p=80421 Quote (942767 @ May 06 2008,11:41) Hi Mandy: Perhaps it is because you failed to heed God's warning to you. Please refer to your post here:
Quote https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=Post;CODE=06;f=17;t=1625;p=80421
Hi bro,I don't even need to click on the link because that post has been thrown in my face so many times now that I cannot even count!
As a leader in the church (or potential leader) you better be sure to watch your words – they will come back to bite you! Have you ever been so sure the Lord is telling you something and then found out it was wrong, or maybe not exactly what you believed?
And this is how it goes when you let the “spirit lead”. Everyone who claims to be a Christian has the Spirit in them, bro. And everyone “feels led” by this same Spirit. No, I don't buy it. I've heard some Christians say that the “Spirit” was “leading” them in some pretty crazy directions. I have had folks say things like, “My spirit doesn't bear witness with your spirit.” Hogwash. It's not a good ruler to measure by because everyone is led by this so-called “Spirit of God” and everyone seems to be going in different directions!
I've studied. I've prayed. I've fasted. I've met with God at 3 a.m. in the morning. I've felt the annointing. I've received prophesies that have come true. I've been in leadership. I've dedicated my life to this stuff! I've wanted the truth so bad I would gouge-out my eye for it! So don't tell me that I don't have understanding because I didn't heed a warning that I supposedly thought I received from the Spirit.
Perhaps I don't have understanding because it's nonsense?
Quote (942767 @ May 06 2008,10:40) I have shared with you in my personal testimony that I anticipate God using me as a Bishop or overseer in the church. When it happens, you will know that I have told you the truth. Is it possible for me to misunderstand? Yes, of course, it is, but the future will reveal this to both me and you. I don't believe that I have made a mistake, but we shall see.
I believe you would make an excellent bishop, brother. I hope that this comes to pass. If the body is aware that you eagerly await this appointment, I'm sure if it opens up they will contact you.Have you considered that God has placed you HERE as an overseer? Anywhere believer's gather – there is the body of Christ.
WHERE TWO OR THREE ARE GATHERED IN MY NAME, THERE I AM IN THE MIDST OF YOU,.
MAY GOD KEEP YOU IN HIS LOVE, MANDY AND 942767Peace and Love Irene
Back to the question why is it hard to understand the things of God?
I think it goes back to my premise that life is school, many here think it is a one course curriculum and even in that they want the answers to the exams without going to class. I believe there are many courses and the longer we learn the more we will invariably understand. Just like in school there will be people ahead of us and some behind us, what is incomprehensible to those of lower experience and knowledge may be quite clear to those ahead of us.
Quote (Not3in1 @ May 07 2008,05:36) I guess I'm just a baby yet. 
So are most of us, but I think we are all slowly maturing. I think some like Jesus were among those ahead of us who come back now and then to lend encouragment and help show the way.Quote (seek and you will find @ May 06 2008,19:12) WHERE TWO OR THREE ARE GATHERED IN MY NAME, THERE I AM IN THE MIDST OF YOU,.
MAY GOD KEEP YOU IN HIS LOVE, MANDY AND 942767Peace and Love Irene
'He' is there every second of the day. Watching you. There is no escape anywhere. No privacy. The eternal celestial CCTV camera is recording, waiting for you to put a step wrong so it can be recorded in the big book.You can understand the paranoia of some people who post here, can't you!
The good news is that none of it is true. Not that I prostyletise for atheism you understand!
Stuart
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