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I don't have time to check this out right now but I will tonight. If this information is why you are not a believer in a God Almighty, I will be very interested to hear it.
Even before I was told the gospel as a very young child, I believed in God. My parents were not particularly religious at the time either. I've just always known he exists. Strange that we have two different experiences, huh?
I daresay he preached it too, Nick. Although more humbly and thoughtfully than your average televangelist. You have to concede the possibility that he now is not in possession of any knowledge.
Stuart
Quote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 22 2008,06:39) I don't have time to check this out right now but I will tonight. If this information is why you are not a believer in a God Almighty, I will be very interested to hear it. Even before I was told the gospel as a very young child, I believed in God. My parents were not particularly religious at the time either. I've just always known he exists. Strange that we have two different experiences, huh?
There is quite a bit in what Bertrand Russell says that I am sure people here would agree with, for example the effect that the Catholic church has had on the perception of the message of Jesus (whatever of that has survived).There are some arguments that he makes that I would not, but that is the nature of disbelief: organising atheists is like herding cats, the only thing they have in common is a negative, a disbelief in gods, ghosts, goblins and ghouls, just to stick with the letter G.
Stuart
OK, I just went to the website you offered and read the entire thing.
It all makes sense, Stu. Really it does. It is one way to look at things and draw your conclusions.
All I can say is that there is something that happens to a human soul when they turn over their brains (yes, turn over their intellect) and allow themselves to trust something or *someone* higher than themselves. There is a soul-communication that happens when pure hearts are not driven by mind energy and deductions. There is a surrender and it can be sweet. I think we are all hard-wired to have something “missing”. That missing piece is God.
Have a good night,
MandyI can't quite agree Mandy, not in the way you put it. I don't think you need to turn over your intellect to have a belief in God. That's selling people short. I do believe, however, that you have to turn over your intellect in fully believing that one particular religion is the only way.
Why I am a Christian,
I was not raised with hardly any knowledge of God except being taught to be moral. As I entered adulthood I became entangled with many “sins” including drugs to which I became hopelessly addicted. One day my brother-in-law got “saved” and hounded me about going to church. Although I was put off by his whole “holier than thou” attitude, it did make me pause and give thought to my life and it was at this point I determined to find truth.Christianity was not my first choice (I had a distaste for it from “hypocrites” I had known) but finally I pulled out that big decorative Bible we had gotten as a wedding present, lit up a joint, put on Jethro Tull and began to read. I knew nothing at the time but as I sought for truth I found it, not all of it, but enough that when mixed with faith I gained eternal life. Not knowing different I continued living life much as before (except I stopped swearing immediately) but as the days went by I found I had no desire for the things I previously couldn't live without and they were replaced with love and peace.
That was over 27 years ago and although I'm still learning I've come to realize I haven't scratched the surface. I've said all of this to state, that I have found that many of the things that appeared to conflict between science and scripture or between scriptures suddenly harmonize once the proper interpretation is understood. but it was the “sweetness” of being restored to a relationship with God that makes life worth living.
Wm
Hi Stu,
We do not need yet another leaven as those cast here in recent months have taken their toll.
The Spirit of God is the leaven of the sons of God.Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 23 2008,00:17) I can't quite agree Mandy, not in the way you put it. I don't think you need to turn over your intellect to have a belief in God. That's selling people short. I do believe, however, that you have to turn over your intellect in fully believing that one particular religion is the only way.
Yes, I see what you mean. However to believe anything that cannot be proven literally and physically, you must abandoned your desire to reason it out and just accept it; if indeed you choose to embrace a religion of any kind I dare say.Our minds work against us sometimes, Kevin. I have found this to be true. It make take you a bit longer to accept this because you are a man!
Ha! Of course I mean no disrespect, I'm only saying that men are sometimes more logical and demand more proof. Women on the other hand, tend to give more credit to feelings and emotions.Having a relationship is emotional business, is it not? Why should this be different in our approach with our heavenly Father (and potentially his Son)? Passion cannot be defined so much of the time. Neither can it be nailed down why we fall in love with one person and not another. So in this way, we should abandoned our brains and embrace the love that is coming down from heaven. As the song says, “Grace falls down on me….” and it does even now as I type this. God cannot be proven. There is no evidence envelope that holds the key. It comes down to faith. We choose to accept something that doesn't make sense, necessarily, or we do not. This is what I have found.
In the end, we all believe in something. There might be this proof, or that proof, but it's all subjective. Faith. I believe that is why it is said:
Without faith it is impossible to please God.
We can try to make sense of something until nothing makes sense anymore. I know – I'm just coming out of that place.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 23 2008,03:10) Why I am a Christian,
I was not raised with hardly any knowledge of God except being taught to be moral. As I entered adulthood I became entangled with many “sins” including drugs to which I became hopelessly addicted. One day my brother-in-law got “saved” and hounded me about going to church. Although I was put off by his whole “holier than thou” attitude, it did make me pause and give thought to my life and it was at this point I determined to find truth.Christianity was not my first choice (I had a distaste for it from “hypocrites” I had known) but finally I pulled out that big decorative Bible we had gotten as a wedding present, lit up a joint, put on Jethro Tull and began to read. I knew nothing at the time but as I sought for truth I found it, not all of it, but enough that when mixed with faith I gained eternal life. Not knowing different I continued living life much as before (except I stopped swearing immediately) but as the days went by I found I had no desire for the things I previously couldn't live without and they were replaced with love and peace.
That was over 27 years ago and although I'm still learning I've come to realize I haven't scratched the surface. I've said all of this to state, that I have found that many of the things that appeared to conflict between science and scripture or between scriptures suddenly harmonize once the proper interpretation is understood. but it was the “sweetness” of being restored to a relationship with God that makes life worth living.
Wm
HI St,
Thanks.
But the grace of God should lead you to the truth
You must be born again…of water and the Spirit.Hi Not3,
Yes there seems to be lots of looking back going on here now.
Redress of the decision to obey and follow Christ according to logic and not faith.
the leaven was very effective.
Doubts have become the fruit.
Now scripture has come under attack.Men have been disturbed from the peace.
Galatians 5:10
I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear his judgment, whoever he isGalatians 1:7
which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of ChristActs 4:2
being greatly disturbed because they were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection from the dead.Acts 15:24
“Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls,Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 22 2008,10:10) Why I am a Christian,
I was not raised with hardly any knowledge of God except being taught to be moral. As I entered adulthood I became entangled with many “sins” including drugs to which I became hopelessly addicted. One day my brother-in-law got “saved” and hounded me about going to church. Although I was put off by his whole “holier than thou” attitude, it did make me pause and give thought to my life and it was at this point I determined to find truth.Christianity was not my first choice (I had a distaste for it from “hypocrites” I had known) but finally I pulled out that big decorative Bible we had gotten as a wedding present, lit up a joint, put on Jethro Tull and began to read. I knew nothing at the time but as I sought for truth I found it, not all of it, but enough that when mixed with faith I gained eternal life. Not knowing different I continued living life much as before (except I stopped swearing immediately) but as the days went by I found I had no desire for the things I previously couldn't live without and they were replaced with love and peace.
That was over 27 years ago and although I'm still learning I've come to realize I haven't scratched the surface. I've said all of this to state, that I have found that many of the things that appeared to conflict between science and scripture or between scriptures suddenly harmonize once the proper interpretation is understood. but it was the “sweetness” of being restored to a relationship with God that makes life worth living.
Wm
Hey ST,My experience was similar to your own. I was a pot head before I gave my life to Christ. I quit cold turkey on that day and haven't used a drug since (unless you count antihistamines, caffeine, and aspirin!).
Quote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 22 2008,11:39) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 23 2008,00:17) I can't quite agree Mandy, not in the way you put it. I don't think you need to turn over your intellect to have a belief in God. That's selling people short. I do believe, however, that you have to turn over your intellect in fully believing that one particular religion is the only way.
Yes, I see what you mean. However to believe anything that cannot be proven literally and physically, you must abandoned your desire to reason it out and just accept it; if indeed you choose to embrace a religion of any kind I dare say.Our minds work against us sometimes, Kevin. I have found this to be true. It make take you a bit longer to accept this because you are a man!
Ha! Of course I mean no disrespect, I'm only saying that men are sometimes more logical and demand more proof. Women on the other hand, tend to give more credit to feelings and emotions.Having a relationship is emotional business, is it not? Why should this be different in our approach with our heavenly Father (and potentially his Son)? Passion cannot be defined so much of the time. Neither can it be nailed down why we fall in love with one person and not another. So in this way, we should abandoned our brains and embrace the love that is coming down from heaven. As the song says, “Grace falls down on me….” and it does even now as I type this. God cannot be proven. There is no evidence envelope that holds the key. It comes down to faith. We choose to accept something that doesn't make sense, necessarily, or we do not. This is what I have found.
In the end, we all believe in something. There might be this proof, or that proof, but it's all subjective. Faith. I believe that is why it is said:
Without faith it is impossible to please God.
We can try to make sense of something until nothing makes sense anymore. I know – I'm just coming out of that place.
There is a difference in believing in God and believing in Jesus. Creation, IMHO, attests to me that there is a God. In that I am similar to our recently departed deist. However, belief in Jesus takes a much larger leap of faith because many people believe in a Creator, but other than some passages saying Jesus shared in creation, there is no great work we can see every single day to tell us Jesus truly existed. We must then take the bible and believe what it says and that takes much more faith than believing in a Creator God IMHO.But you go against yourself in this post. You say
Quote However to believe anything that cannot be proven literally and physically, you must abandoned your desire to reason it out and just accept it
If this is true, should you not still be believing in the trinity?LG&LP,
KevinQuote (kejonn @ Jan. 23 2008,05:46) Quote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 22 2008,11:39) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 23 2008,00:17) I can't quite agree Mandy, not in the way you put it. I don't think you need to turn over your intellect to have a belief in God. That's selling people short. I do believe, however, that you have to turn over your intellect in fully believing that one particular religion is the only way.
Yes, I see what you mean. However to believe anything that cannot be proven literally and physically, you must abandoned your desire to reason it out and just accept it; if indeed you choose to embrace a religion of any kind I dare say.Our minds work against us sometimes, Kevin. I have found this to be true. It make take you a bit longer to accept this because you are a man!
Ha! Of course I mean no disrespect, I'm only saying that men are sometimes more logical and demand more proof. Women on the other hand, tend to give more credit to feelings and emotions.Having a relationship is emotional business, is it not? Why should this be different in our approach with our heavenly Father (and potentially his Son)? Passion cannot be defined so much of the time. Neither can it be nailed down why we fall in love with one person and not another. So in this way, we should abandoned our brains and embrace the love that is coming down from heaven. As the song says, “Grace falls down on me….” and it does even now as I type this. God cannot be proven. There is no evidence envelope that holds the key. It comes down to faith. We choose to accept something that doesn't make sense, necessarily, or we do not. This is what I have found.
In the end, we all believe in something. There might be this proof, or that proof, but it's all subjective. Faith. I believe that is why it is said:
Without faith it is impossible to please God.
We can try to make sense of something until nothing makes sense anymore. I know – I'm just coming out of that place.
There is a difference in believing in God and believing in Jesus. Creation, IMHO, attests to me that there is a God. In that I am similar to our recently departed deist. However, belief in Jesus takes a much larger leap of faith because many people believe in a Creator, but other than some passages saying Jesus shared in creation, there is no great work we can see every single day to tell us Jesus truly existed. We must then take the bible and believe what it says and that takes much more faith than believing in a Creator God IMHO.But you go against yourself in this post. You say
Quote However to believe anything that cannot be proven literally and physically, you must abandoned your desire to reason it out and just accept it
If this is true, should you not still be believing in the trinity?LG&LP,
Kevin
It is what Jesus said that leads me to believe:He knew something.
He knew The Way.
In his time and place he spoke very strange words.
TRUE LOVE, TRUE LIGHT AND TRUE GOOD.
Through Paul or James or Peter or John or Apollos ad naseum.
These guys turned the world upside down.
Love your enemies. WHAT?
beautiful!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 23 2008,00:22) Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 23 2008,03:10) Why I am a Christian,
I was not raised with hardly any knowledge of God except being taught to be moral. As I entered adulthood I became entangled with many “sins” including drugs to which I became hopelessly addicted. One day my brother-in-law got “saved” and hounded me about going to church. Although I was put off by his whole “holier than thou” attitude, it did make me pause and give thought to my life and it was at this point I determined to find truth.Christianity was not my first choice (I had a distaste for it from “hypocrites” I had known) but finally I pulled out that big decorative Bible we had gotten as a wedding present, lit up a joint, put on Jethro Tull and began to read. I knew nothing at the time but as I sought for truth I found it, not all of it, but enough that when mixed with faith I gained eternal life. Not knowing different I continued living life much as before (except I stopped swearing immediately) but as the days went by I found I had no desire for the things I previously couldn't live without and they were replaced with love and peace.
That was over 27 years ago and although I'm still learning I've come to realize I haven't scratched the surface. I've said all of this to state, that I have found that many of the things that appeared to conflict between science and scripture or between scriptures suddenly harmonize once the proper interpretation is understood. but it was the “sweetness” of being restored to a relationship with God that makes life worth living.
Wm
HI St,
Thanks.
But the grace of God should lead you to the truth
You must be born again…of water and the Spirit.
Nick,
How do you think I found truth? You can learn facts but I believe it takes the Spirit to find truth. Hence the reason unbelievers find scripture as so much nonsence.Wm
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 23 2008,05:46) But you go against yourself in this post. You say Quote
However to believe anything that cannot be proven literally and physically, you must abandoned your desire to reason it out and just accept itIf this is true, should you not still be believing in the trinity?
My answer is maybe.My answer is this: If God didn't reveal himself to me in a different and more powerful way, then yes I would go back to my Trinitarian belief. But it is my personal opinion that God rewards those who earnestly seek him….he rewards them with himself.
At any rate, there comes a time when you have to take the leap of faith to believe anything. This is the point I was trying to make. It takes a leap of faith to believe in Jesus, it takes a leap of faith to believe in the religion you are researching, it takes a leap of faith to believe the scientists have it right. It takes faith to cross the street.
Hi Seekingtruth:
That is a great testimony and likewise many of us had to come to oursleves and seek. ..It's quite simple.
A purely natural man cannot comprehend things of the spirit.
So that is the reason anyone writes off spiritual.
The carnal mind cannot grasp that anything can be eternal and it cannot grasp that anything may not be of this realm.
Therefore it is not an intellectual thing at all. The intellect that is guided by carnality is just simply limited to carnal things.
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