why? do church people still die!

[NewDiscovery]

Why do Church still People die?

i was thinking ''why do church people die''?

is it because of 1 corn. 1 v 10 – how ''the house'' has been divided and cannot stand?
Has this ''house'' been abandoned by the Holy Spirit and is the devil now in control.? Is the church a counterfeit because of rebellion?
Does the Holy Spirit love mammon, the churches thrive upon?

Perhaps we need to ask serious questions, cuz the church today is nothing like the group trained up by Yahushua Messiah.

Also
the wages of sin is death.
how can a person who has been
1] forgiven
2] covered by the Blood of the Lamb
3] born again as a new creature, where all old things have passed away and new things appear.
4] santified
5] renewed daily
6] under now no condemnation

etc – still die from sins and be in the grave?

Quote

———————————————————– 2 tim 1 v 10 – is the believer's gospel? let us look together 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 2Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

———————————————————–

Paul was an appointed Apostle, teacher and Preacher of this Gospel.

1] abolishing death
2] has now brought to light
3]LIFE AND IMMORTALITY.

NOW THAT sounds like a new creation born again and saved doesn't it?
or
People who remain alive and have conquered their last enemy death rather than toppling into the tomb.

[942767]

Quote (NewDiscovery @ April 13 2008,10:07)

Why do Church still People die? i was thinking ''why do church people die''? is it because of 1 corn. 1 v 10 – how ''the house'' has been divided and cannot stand? Has this ''house'' been abandoned by the Holy Spirit and is the devil now in control.? Is the church a counterfeit because of rebellion? Does the Holy Spirit love mammon, the churches thrive upon? Perhaps we need to ask serious questions, cuz the church today is nothing like the group trained up by Yahushua Messiah. Also the wages of sin is death. how can a person who has been 1] forgiven 2] covered by the Blood of the Lamb 3] born again as a new creature, where all old things have passed away and new things appear. 4] santified 5] renewed daily 6] under now no condemnation etc – still die from sins and be in the grave? Quote ———————————————————– 2 tim 1 v 10 – is the believer's gospel? let us look together 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 2Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. ———————————————————– Paul was an appointed Apostle, teacher and Preacher of this Gospel. 1] abolishing death 2] has now brought to light 3]LIFE AND IMMORTALITY. NOW THAT sounds like a new creation born again and saved doesn't it? or People who remain alive and have conquered their last enemy death rather than toppling into the tomb.

Hi New Discovery:

Quote

So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. 1Cr 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1Cr 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven. 1Cr 15:48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly. 1Cr 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 1Cr 15:50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1Cr 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. 1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

We as born again Christians still have a mortal body even though we are a new creation in Christ Jesus, and this body continues to detiorate, how quickly depends on how we take care of our body. Our body will die but our soul will never die.

[seek and you will find]

New Discovery! We do not die for our sins right now, we die because Adam sinned. If Christ would not have come and died for us, we would have stayed dead forever. Paul did not teach that we would not die, but that once we will be resurrected, like Christ was, we will have all those things. What does death mean. Death means that you will stay that way forever. But God send us a Savior We will be resurrected just like Christ was. Born again has a different meaning then what you are implying. We are born from above, meaning we have received God's Holy Spirit. It does not mean, born again of the flesh yet. The first resurrection will happen after Jesus has returned and has set up His Kingdom here on earth. The only one that has given IMORTALITY is Jesus Christ. And God the Father always had Immortality. So you have two at the present time. All Angels can be destroyed, like the devil and his angels. They will get the second death along with all that worship Anti-Christ. So death were is your sting. It will be the last to be destroyed, all in the Lake of Fire. From that Lake of Fire we are saved, if we stay close to Jesus Christ and pray always. Ask for forgiveness daily, because we sometimes sin without us noticing it. There is so much sin in the world and it is easy to think in a negative way and sin. Because sin is magnified by Jesus on the Sermon on the Mount it is made so much harder not to sin. Pride is a hard one to acknowledge. We do not even see it. Ask God to show you, your faults and sins, He will big times. You will be surprised. I hope I have explained to you what you were looking for.
Peace and Love Mrs.

[NewDiscovery]

thank you for your replies… I read them and then i wondered this~! why do we have a bible when we dont do as it says?
why do we twist the meanings and make it say something else?

SO~! basically the point is we take no notice of what Paul as preaching and teaching.

2 tim 1 v 10.

Quote

2Ti 1:9  Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 2Ti 1:10  But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 2Ti 1:11  Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

this apointed man taught that
1] Yahuahua Messiah [the anointed Son of God] appeared as our saviour, to save the people from the curse of sin and death originated by Adam and abolished death the rebellion and separation of the people from their Father and so by doing this act  revealed immortality.

this is the Gospel.~!

who told us how to think?
What system changed this Gospel?
who would have the most to gain from denying the putting off of mortal and putting on immortal, here and now.?

the devil.

[charity]

HI

I WOULD LOVE TO DISCOVER THE HOW WE ARE MENT TO RISE
Not just assume? Evidence to the eye is preferred and is a sure help, rather than the game they played giving us new heights of a strange new faith, that of Just believing their words, that he was raised from the dead, believe it or die??
When others tell he was incorruptible and could not be destroyed, legends, church is of no help to me unless I can follow incorruption!

Jesus Insurance began 2000yrs ago, and only cost about one hour a week on Sundays,
Deemed sigh! Every bone aches inside!
And only incorruption can ever tell if it paid up?

I can go on about the cost of Allah's Insurance, as many lives taken with one hand!

As Many, may God bless you and reveal his true Nature

Love

charity

[NickHassan]

Quote (NewDiscovery @ April 14 2008,08:32)

thank you for your replies… I read them and then i wondered this~! why do we have a bible when we dont do as it says? why do we twist the meanings and make it say something else? SO~! basically the point is we take no notice of what Paul as preaching and teaching. 2 tim 1 v 10. Quote 2Ti 1:9  Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 2Ti 1:10  But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 2Ti 1:11  Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. this apointed man taught that 1] Yahuahua Messiah [the anointed Son of God] appeared as our saviour, to save the people from the curse of sin and death originated by Adam and abolished death the rebellion and separation of the people from their Father and so by doing this act  revealed immortality. this is the Gospel.~! who told us how to think? What system changed this Gospel? who would have the most to gain from denying the putting off of mortal and putting on immortal, here and now.? the devil.

Hi ND,
Death is abolished – in the future [1cor15].
Thus with it the fear of death replaced by hope.
The second death is inapplicable to the saved in Christ.

[942767]

Quote (NewDiscovery @ April 14 2008,08:32)

thank you for your replies… I read them and then i wondered this~! why do we have a bible when we dont do as it says? why do we twist the meanings and make it say something else? SO~! basically the point is we take no notice of what Paul as preaching and teaching. 2 tim 1 v 10. Quote 2Ti 1:9  Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 2Ti 1:10  But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 2Ti 1:11  Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. this apointed man taught that 1] Yahuahua Messiah [the anointed Son of God] appeared as our saviour, to save the people from the curse of sin and death originated by Adam and abolished death the rebellion and separation of the people from their Father and so by doing this act  revealed immortality. this is the Gospel.~! who told us how to think? What system changed this Gospel? who would have the most to gain from denying the putting off of mortal and putting on immortal, here and now.? the devil.

Hi New Discovery:

The body that we have now even as born again believers is a mortal body, and it is temporary.

We are comissioned by our Lord to go into all of the world and preach the gospel. There is much work to be done. Many have not heard the gospel. When every one whom the God has forseen has been saved then He will come for the church, and at time we will receive our immortal body.

But as a born again believers our soul is now immortal as long as we continue in the faith.

[NickHassan]

Hi ND,
Sure. The same tentmaker, Paul, you quote could not wait to leave to leave his tent behind.[2Cor5]

[NewDiscovery]

is ''his tent'' his OLD MAN~!
WHY preach on  the abolishment of death and be apointed to do so, then contradict himself by longing to die.

that is an oxymoron – in grammar that is~!

saying one thing then denying it by saying another thing.

therefore THE GOSPEL paul preached and taught and was appointed to do as with divine authority is the CORE message.

also

a believer is asked to put off their mortal and put on immortality here today on earth not at some future date.

i do believe it is all very straight forewards to understand, even a small child could do so.

Paul was introducing a NEW WAY OF LIFE and cancelling out the old man Adam who could not be saved,

[NickHassan]

Hi ND,
Because the abolishment of death is a prophecy.
We must be clothed from above.

1Cor 15
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

[NewDiscovery]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2008,10:49)

Hi ND, Because the abolishment of death is a prophecy. We must be clothed from above. 1Cor 15 50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

ummm… we could pass it off as a prophecy yes i agree, but you see it was an appointed Core message,[ 2 tim 1 v 10] that Paul taught and preached and NOT a prophecy as such.
He was NOT ashamed to preach this either.

Quote

''we'' shall not all sleep.'' BY Allen Brown This is an informational post concerning the “we” of 1 Corinthians 15:51: Quote Behold, I relate to you a mystery, we all shall not be made to sleep, but we all shall be transformed. the revelation is The personal pronoun ''we'' does not exist by itself in the Greek text as it appears to do so in our various English translations. The ''we'' in the Greek text is contained in the form of the Greek verb which is used. Both of the latter verbs in the above verse are passive. They are both 1st person plural (this tells us to translate the verb with a we), and both are future tense. Here is what the future tense conveys in the Greek language: Quote: The use of the Future Indicative in the Greek denotes that the action is expected to take place in future time. The context decides whether the state of the action is to be regarded as simple or progressive. ———————————————————– If Paul was only speaking of a future generation, then it was improper for him to include himself and the Corinthians in this discussion of all those being made to fall asleep by using the 1st person plural. A future generation would have been better indicated by the 3rd person plural, i.e. they all shall not be made to fall asleep. By using the 1st person plural, Paul is including himself and those to whom his letter is addressed as being amongst those who may or may not be made to sleep future to the writing of his letter. It is the same for those who ultimately are transformed because they were not made to fall asleep. In verse 52, Paul again uses the 1st person plural future passive form of the Greek verb, allasso. Only this time Paul does use the 1st person plural personal pronoun to go with the Greek verb. This pronoun is added for emphasis so that the we is definitely understood and emphasized! What is the logic of the mystery here? There is nothing mysterious about everyone growing old and dying, is there? However, it is indeed mysterious if Paul is saying that some of the Believers of the 1st Century might indeed live until the transformation. That would make some of them about 2000 years old right now, wouldn't it? It is almost as if this was written for them and for us: Quote: Habakkuk 1:5 5 Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvelously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you…………………..we shall not die (verse 12).

[NickHassan]

Hi ND,
So Paul spoke with a forked tongue?
Would you believe only some of what he said?

[NewDiscovery]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2008,12:40)

Hi ND, So Paul spoke with a forked tongue? Would you believe only some of what he said?

no~!
Why? would u say that to me!
I would never say that back to you~! i would consider your responses and deal with it with courtesy.

I have placed 2 tim 1 v 9-10 there to reconsider THE  core GOSPEL as Paul taught and preeached and was not ashamed to do so.

I believe
it is the church's failed  understanding of a mystery that is perhaps forked….notice it is a MYSTERY and a mystery remains  so till it is revealed.
[The revealtion comes from John 11 v 24-25-26]

why not just take the time to re-read again the word meaning of ''we''  please, it makes it clearer.  

That way we ''get''' the revelation of this Mystery.

[NickHassan]

Hi ND,
You must reconcile the two statements of Paul.
One scripture does not make a good doctrine.
Two opposing ones should cause a rethink.

[NewDiscovery]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2008,13:43)

Hi ND, You must reconcile the two statements of Paul. One scripture does not make a good doctrine. Two opposing ones should cause a rethink.

the Gospel Paul preached and taught without shame was/is
2 tim. 1 v 10.
THAT IS HIS CORE message.

the object is to believe in eternal life now being made available on earth by a Believer as per. 11 John 24-25-26 where the 2 ways are contrasted by Yahushua Himself.
Marth's way
The Saviour's way.

the 'christian' church has gone Martha's way and has dismissed Yahushua's way [John 11 v 25-26]as impossible nonsense~!

the ''tent'' is Paul's old man~!
to put this off is to be ''with Christ'' meaning walking in the  FULLNESS OF THE SPIRIT~!

the ''tent'' of the old man = faulty Adam, sin and death, has to be put off here and now. Corruption [bondage to sin and death] as to be put off, and incorruption [freedom, liberty, salvation, saved] is to be put on here and now~!

sins kills people
they are defiled by sin~!

However the ''quickened life '' Yahushua introduced robs sin of all its destroying affects. SEE THAT IS THE TRUTH OF THE GOODNEWS.

[NickHassan]

Hi ND,
2Cor5
1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

5Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

It seems pretty clear that the body is the tent.

[NickHassan]

Hi ND,
Certainly the outer man, the OLD MAN, is the body of sin,
that we who walk by faith and not sight know,
is already crucified with Christ and we sit
with him in heavenly places even now.
Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Ephesians 4:22
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Colossians 3:9
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

Colossians 3
1If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

[NewDiscovery]

i dont wish to get into some vast impossible discussion Ok
[as everyone walks in the light they have been given.]
therefore
the bible is for the maturing of the spiritual man within not for the carnally religious~!

therefore,

the tent is the old man and its nature….now ask
WHERE IS HEAVEN?

THE BIBLE is perfect  for the Believer's growing into the Maturity of Christ, So the idea that we have to wait for the kingdom until we die is  definately off~!

where is this heaven?

Quote

“Jesus said “the Kingdom of God is within you” Luke 17 v 20-21″

and UNLESS one is BORN AGAIN, one cannot ''see'' this realm~!

He did not say Lo it is here or there for our observation [a location] but heaven is the realm of The Everlasting Father.

The Believer's Body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.
does the holy Spirit contain 'death''…. or would the indwelling Holy Spirit take time to teach His pupil, how to overcome the last enemy called death here and now?
The  indwelling Holy Spirit, wages against this last enemy.
This is the metamorphoo mentioned – the transformed or the renewing of a Believer's mind.
That religious carnal mind reasonings is what kills us all.
This believer's transformation and the resurrection to life is the very heart of The Goodnews.

Quote

Romans 8:9 – But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:10 – And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. Romans 8:11 – But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

now if the body is a tent….as posted by yourself

Quote

It seems pretty clear that the body is the tent.

why is he now telling ''our body is dead''?

Quote

Going To Heaven When You Die Is Not Bible ~!

A Believer's body is to be  QUICKENED by the divine  indwelling Spirit ~!  meaning~! containing the same life force and power as Yahushua lived out from.

[NickHassan]

Hi ND,
David died and his body rotted.
Jesus died and his body was not allowed to rot to fulfill scripture.
The abiding Spirit of God in him raised him to life again in that perishable body.
But when he was lifted up he was transformed with a new imperishable body given him.
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.
We follow him

[NewDiscovery]

David was in another dispensation.
prior the New Covenant~!

Christ – the power of The Everlasting Father is now available to a Believer.

The life ''IN”” Yahushua the Man, did not allow Him to die naturally, so let us never forget MESSIAH Yahushua gave up HIS LIFE, as a sacrifice.
His NAME is ''THE'' LIFE… and death surrended up its power to HIM.

Here is my Saviour revealed.

Quote

The doctrine which I teach is that which I am. I am It and It is I.”

He is OUR DOCTRINE
HE IS OUR BELIEF SYSTEM
HE IS OUR FREEDOM IN TRUTH
HE IS OUR LIFE

all what He professes to be A BELIEVER can attain too. ''today as we Hear his voice of FOLLOW ME''~!

The good-shepherd has arrived to take care of His sheep- all parts of them, here on earth.

Quote

The Lord is MY Shepherd I shall not want – becomes a legal covenant that THE SHEPHERD, CARES FOR HIS SHEEP. The Shepherd is legally obligated to the sheep, for duty of care, attention, + to act in a divine standard towards His sheep. HENCE….Life Abounds with His LIFE ABUNDANT [John 10 v 10]

[Author]

Posts