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Kejonn, according to the majority of Christianity (The worlds Churches) you also have to be in them, giving them money, doing all THEY say, falling into manmade doctrines , according to the Catholic church and others you have to be one of them. You need to think and believe just like them or possibly face ex communication. Islam is no different.
This website is a example of people who think for themselves.
I had a friend who I thought was an Athiest/ didnt believe in any God. But later found out he did believe in God, he just didnt go to Church or talk about what he believed. I thought going to church and being 'good' made someone a Christian.
And when I said 'good' , I thought good meant- dressed up, smiled at other Christians, didnt swear, smoke, etc. Then I realised- at least in Christianity, that you could have a person going to church on a Sunday, but abusing his children, ripping people off etc, when you could get a person who doesnt go to Church, and yet doesnt do those things. And could be a better man despite that fact. And despite the- tattoos, smoking, road rage, or whatever. And his beliefs in God are his own, not something any person has told him.
Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 04 2010,07:45) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 04 2010,06:43) [/quote]
Islam does not have a hiearchy, Muslims submit directly to God in accordance to the instructions given by the Messiah.The Quran explicitly states that we are to trust in God with All our heart, soul and mind.
In a Mosque there is someone who gives the call to prayer and that's it, There is no one telling you what to pray and each Muslim is as if he is in his own prayer closet.
Each one elbow to elbow. Sometimes there may be a speaker but they are not an authority and no one is required to stay and listen.
I myself do not even go to a Mosque me and My wife pray together and seperately.
This is what I liked about Islam, simple things like that.And the other things taught like kindness to animals, eg not cageing a bird,
Hospitality.
and “tithing” is to give directly to the poor. (Theres no money bag handed around).
Exactly and yet some here would call those things evil?Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 03 2010,16:12) Kejonn, according to the majority of Christianity (The worlds Churches) you also have to be in them, giving them money, doing all THEY say, falling into manmade doctrines , according to the Catholic church and others you have to be one of them. You need to think and believe just like them or possibly face ex communication. Islam is no different. This website is a example of people who think for themselves.
I had a friend who I thought was an Athiest/ didnt believe in any God. But later found out he did believe in God, he just didnt go to Church or talk about what he believed. I thought going to church and being 'good' made someone a Christian.
Spirituality should be much more personal than it is. In its simplest and most pure form, it is your own communication with what you feel is supernatural, or beyond you. It should never be about belonging to any group that agrees (mostly) with you for the sake of belonging.I suppose I am still spiritual, in a limited sense. I don't believe in any gods, but I believe there is much more to science then what we know, obviously. We have the laws of conservation of matter and energy, what does that mean for us as humans? That we are all “immortal” in some sense, and in other ways as well. We live on in our family. We pass our genes on to the next generation (hopefully). We pass on our life experiences to our children (hopefully). All of this assures that we live on in some fashion, although the influence lessens with each generation. Yet the influence — good or bad or indifferent — is still there, whether we realize it or not.
t8
Quote Atheists have Charles Darwin.
Yeah but it's not the same really is it. We're all waiting around for evidence that proves him wrong, knowing that is the only way we can still consider him right. Joseph Smith just told people he was right and the only way they can consider him right is by not questioning it.Quote Even Stu, uses this confusion to ridicule the very idea of God.
Whose god do you mean?
Stuart
Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 04 2010,05:17) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 03 2010,20:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,10:23) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 30 2010,08:09) Schism. You know, like sunni, shia, sufism, ibadism, ahmadism (and bahá'ísm!).
Stuart
These all have no disagreement about ALLAH or the nature of Christ.
Non-sequitur. Read your own OP for details. You did not ask about the nature of Jesus, you asked why one group of christians do not consider other groups to be christians. I gave you examples of groups of muslims who mutually do not consider other groups to be muslims. I think you would probably say that of tha ahmadists at least, wouldn't you?Stuart
You still don't know what a Muslim is, do you?A Muslim is not what one calls himself a Muslim is what one does i.e. Submits to God in Peace
A person may have never heard the word Muslim and has peacefully submitted to God. All Orthodox Jews who follow the Torah are Muslims, All Christians in any denomination that has submitted their wholeself to Jehovah are Muslims.
Do you still not understand
But a muslim is also one who will kill people who encroach on what he considers to be his freedoms, no matter what fatuous excuse that provides for slaughtering the enemies of god wherever he finds them.Stuart
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 04 2010,12:01) Spirituality should be much more personal than it is. In its simplest and most pure form, it is your own communication with what you feel is supernatural, or beyond you. It should never be about belonging to any group that agrees (mostly) with you for the sake of belonging. I suppose I am still spiritual, in a limited sense. I don't believe in any gods, but I believe there is much more to science then what we know, obviously. We have the laws of conservation of matter and energy, what does that mean for us as humans? That we are all “immortal” in some sense, and in other ways as well. We live on in our family. We pass our genes on to the next generation (hopefully). We pass on our life experiences to our children (hopefully). All of this assures that we live on in some fashion, although the influence lessens with each generation. Yet the influence — good or bad or indifferent — is still there, whether we realize it or not.
Yeah. They tell you what to believe. It gets nowhere.Interesting ideas you have.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 04 2010,09:43) Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 04 2010,07:45) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 04 2010,06:43)
Islam does not have a hiearchy, Muslims submit directly to God in accordance to the instructions given by the Messiah.The Quran explicitly states that we are to trust in God with All our heart, soul and mind.
In a Mosque there is someone who gives the call to prayer and that's it, There is no one telling you what to pray and each Muslim is as if he is in his own prayer closet.
Each one elbow to elbow. Sometimes there may be a speaker but they are not an authority and no one is required to stay and listen.
I myself do not even go to a Mosque me and My wife pray together and seperately.
This is what I liked about Islam, simple things like that.And the other things taught like kindness to animals, eg not cageing a bird,
Hospitality.
and “tithing” is to give directly to the poor. (Theres no money bag handed around).Quote Exactly and yet some here would call those things evil?
Im sure theres been thousands of people who have made changes in their lives- for the good, based on these beliefs.Quote (Stu @ Feb. 04 2010,19:11) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 04 2010,05:17) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 03 2010,20:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,10:23) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 30 2010,08:09) Schism. You know, like sunni, shia, sufism, ibadism, ahmadism (and bahá'ísm!).
Stuart
These all have no disagreement about ALLAH or the nature of Christ.
Non-sequitur. Read your own OP for details. You did not ask about the nature of Jesus, you asked why one group of christians do not consider other groups to be christians. I gave you examples of groups of muslims who mutually do not consider other groups to be muslims. I think you would probably say that of tha ahmadists at least, wouldn't you?Stuart
You still don't know what a Muslim is, do you?A Muslim is not what one calls himself a Muslim is what one does i.e. Submits to God in Peace
A person may have never heard the word Muslim and has peacefully submitted to God. All Orthodox Jews who follow the Torah are Muslims, All Christians in any denomination that has submitted their wholeself to Jehovah are Muslims.
Do you still not understand
But a muslim is also one who will kill people who encroach on what he considers to be his freedoms, no matter what fatuous excuse that provides for slaughtering the enemies of god wherever he finds them.Stuart
Who would you kill and for what reason? You say you don't eat meat but you still kill and eat plants and they are living too STUQuote JWs are just another group unto themselves and have buildings and money schemes –t8
T8, for literally the 6th or 7th time, I know that in the past, religion took your money or your relatives money. I understand that you have issues with this. But JW's don't have money schemes. We don't tithe, as you have also hinted at numerous times. There are no JW's “at the top” of any scheme living in large houses and taking other peoples money. If there are, please name one.
So, t8, although I've asked you this at least twice before, I ask again, Please stop saying this. It simply isn't true.
Quote You have david trying his best to convince people that JWs are the Church, –t8
When is the last time I did this T8? Maybe 3 years ago. Please go find a quote. Can you? No. More than that, I don't even really mention JW's until someone like you attacks them. Go check. I'll wait. You know I'm right.
The truth as you know T8, is I almost can't say anything without someone accusing me of being wrong because I'm one of JW's. That line of logic is false.
Quote You have david trying his best to convince people that JWs are the Church, with no consideration that he is helping confuse those who seek the truth; there have been a number of Catholics who have tried to convince people here that they are the exclusive Church; and we have you who is trying to convince people that Islam is the truth. Of course there are many others I could mention. I seriously can't see how you T8, can't see the error in your logic here.
Obviously, all statements cannot be true. But then you make the false step of saying that because all can't be true, none are true.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 05 2010,13:41) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 04 2010,19:11) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 04 2010,05:17) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 03 2010,20:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,10:23) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 30 2010,08:09) Schism. You know, like sunni, shia, sufism, ibadism, ahmadism (and bahá'ísm!).
Stuart
These all have no disagreement about ALLAH or the nature of Christ.
Non-sequitur. Read your own OP for details. You did not ask about the nature of Jesus, you asked why one group of christians do not consider other groups to be christians. I gave you examples of groups of muslims who mutually do not consider other groups to be muslims. I think you would probably say that of tha ahmadists at least, wouldn't you?Stuart
You still don't know what a Muslim is, do you?A Muslim is not what one calls himself a Muslim is what one does i.e. Submits to God in Peace
A person may have never heard the word Muslim and has peacefully submitted to God. All Orthodox Jews who follow the Torah are Muslims, All Christians in any denomination that has submitted their wholeself to Jehovah are Muslims.
Do you still not understand
But a muslim is also one who will kill people who encroach on what he considers to be his freedoms, no matter what fatuous excuse that provides for slaughtering the enemies of god wherever he finds them.Stuart
Who would you kill and for what reason? You say you don't eat meat but you still kill and eat plants and they are living too STU
Now read it properly this time:But a muslim is also one who will kill people who encroach on what he considers to be his freedoms, no matter what fatuous excuse that provides for slaughtering the enemies of god wherever he finds them.
Stuart
Quote (david @ Feb. 05 2010,17:54) Quote JWs are just another group unto themselves and have buildings and money schemes –t8
T8, for literally the 6th or 7th time, I know that in the past, religion took your money or your relatives money. I understand that you have issues with this. But JW's don't have money schemes. We don't tithe, as you have also hinted at numerous times. There are no JW's “at the top” of any scheme living in large houses and taking other peoples money. If there are, please name one.
So, t8, although I've asked you this at least twice before, I ask again, Please stop saying this. It simply isn't true.
He is right T8 I have been to a Kingdom Hall and there is no money request, they do have a treasury and members of Kingdom Hall donate/tithe after services privately in a drop box.JW's give away mostly anything they can as far as literature, I'm not sure but the missionaries may even have to pay for some of that literature, you can donate to them but hey will not ask for a donation in exchange for literature.
Some of the elders are a bit cold and calculating and a bit like a pharisee but the people are pretty much beautiful and kind.
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 05 2010,23:25) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 05 2010,13:41) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 04 2010,19:11) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 04 2010,05:17) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 03 2010,20:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,10:23) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 30 2010,08:09) Schism. You know, like sunni, shia, sufism, ibadism, ahmadism (and bahá'ísm!).
Stuart
These all have no disagreement about ALLAH or the nature of Christ.
Non-sequitur. Read your own OP for details. You did not ask about the nature of Jesus, you asked why one group of christians do not consider other groups to be christians. I gave you examples of groups of muslims who mutually do not consider other groups to be muslims. I think you would probably say that of tha ahmadists at least, wouldn't you?Stuart
You still don't know what a Muslim is, do you?A Muslim is not what one calls himself a Muslim is what one does i.e. Submits to God in Peace
A person may have never heard the word Muslim and has peacefully submitted to God. All Orthodox Jews who follow the Torah are Muslims, All Christians in any denomination that has submitted their wholeself to Jehovah are Muslims.
Do you still not understand
But a muslim is also one who will kill people who encroach on what he considers to be his freedoms, no matter what fatuous excuse that provides for slaughtering the enemies of god wherever he finds them.Stuart
Who would you kill and for what reason? You say you don't eat meat but you still kill and eat plants and they are living too STU
Now read it properly this time:But a muslim is also one who will kill people who encroach on what he considers to be his freedoms, no matter what fatuous excuse that provides for slaughtering the enemies of god wherever he finds them.
Stuart
You are once again incorrect but once again what would you kill a person for? If you were at a family gathering and a man or some men came running through with some hatchets and began hacking up your family would you kill the men to stop them or just let them wipe out your family?Ball is in your court
Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 06 2010,05:14) You are once again incorrect but once again what would you kill a person for? If you were at a family gathering and a man or some men came running through with some hatchets and began hacking up your family would you kill the men to stop them or just let them wipe out your family? Quote You say you don't eat meat but you still kill and eat plants and they are living too STU But a muslim is also one who will kill people who encroach on what he considers to be his freedoms, no matter what fatuous excuse that provides for slaughtering the enemies of god wherever he finds them.
Islam: The religion for those who walk away from their errors and refuse to acknowledge them.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 06 2010,07:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 06 2010,05:14) You are once again incorrect but once again what would you kill a person for? If you were at a family gathering and a man or some men came running through with some hatchets and began hacking up your family would you kill the men to stop them or just let them wipe out your family? Quote You say you don't eat meat but you still kill and eat plants and they are living too STU But a muslim is also one who will kill people who encroach on what he considers to be his freedoms, no matter what fatuous excuse that provides for slaughtering the enemies of god wherever he finds them.
Islam: The religion for those who walk away from their errors and refuse to acknowledge them.
Stuart
Seems like I won againI'm sure it does seem like that to you.
Islam: the religion for those with no respect for logic.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 06 2010,12:40) I'm sure it does seem like that to you. Islam: the religion for those with no respect for logic.
Stuart
Atheism is the most disrespectful of Logic, it makes no sense.Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 08 2010,16:51) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 06 2010,12:40) I'm sure it does seem like that to you. Islam: the religion for those with no respect for logic.
Stuart
Atheism is the most disrespectful of Logic, it makes no sense.
Based on all the evidence we have, there is no reality to gods.What's disrespectful of logic about that?
Stuart
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