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Why do Catholics, reject protestants and many Christians say that Jehovah witnesses are not Chistians and then some Christians don't call Mormons Christians or seven day adventists.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 29 2010,15:11) Why do Catholics, reject protestants and many Christians say that Jehovah witnesses are not Chistians and then some Christians don't call Mormons Christians or seven day adventists.
Hi BD:A Christian is a person as believed the gospel, and has been reconciled to God through the sacrifice of His Only Begotten Son and His Christ, and haveing been reconciled to God, he is a person who obeys the commandments that have come God to humanity through His Son and His Christ.
Not every one who says that they are a Christian meet this criteria.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Jan. 30 2010,09:57) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 29 2010,15:11) Why do Catholics, reject protestants and many Christians say that Jehovah witnesses are not Chistians and then some Christians don't call Mormons Christians or seven day adventists.
Hi BD:A Christian is a person as believed the gospel, and has been reconciled to God through the sacrifice of His Only Begotten Son and His Christ, and haveing been reconciled to God, he is a person who obeys the commandments that have come God to humanity through His Son and His Christ.
Not every one who says that they are a Christian meet this criteria.
Love in Christ,
Marty
So you are a Jehovah's witness? They meet all your criteriaQuote (Stu @ Jan. 30 2010,08:09) Schism. You know, like sunni, shia, sufism, ibadism, ahmadism (and bahá'ísm!).
Stuart
These all have no disagreement about ALLAH or the nature of Christ.Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,10:23) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 30 2010,08:09) Schism. You know, like sunni, shia, sufism, ibadism, ahmadism (and bahá'ísm!).
Stuart
These all have no disagreement about ALLAH or the nature of Christ.
Christianity is older and bigger than Islam, so there will inevitably be more and bigger divisions. However, that said, this site is not about promoting Christianity anyway, rather Christ.So I agree that there are divisions just as there are in Islam and science.
I encourage all people to stay away from established mainline religions. They are institutions that serve to institutionalise their followers. Rather it is better to encourage people to know God for themselves and have a faith that has evidence, and not a blind faith and follow a man attitude.
I am secure enough to know that if anyone is true in their heart, they will see the truth. There is no need for violence, brainwashing, or persistent bothering of people, or any other like tactics, because light shines through darkness. You don't need to fight darkness, you only need to shine the light and if people want the light they will gladly receive it, if not they will run from it.
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 03 2010,15:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,10:23) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 30 2010,08:09) Schism. You know, like sunni, shia, sufism, ibadism, ahmadism (and bahá'ísm!).
Stuart
These all have no disagreement about ALLAH or the nature of Christ.
Christianity is older and bigger than Islam, so there will inevitably be more and bigger divisions. However, that said, this site is not about promoting Christianity anyway, rather Christ.So I agree that there are divisions just as there are in Islam and science.
I encourage all people to stay away from established mainline religions. They are institutions that serve to institutionalise their followers. Rather it is better to encourage people to know God for themselves and have a faith that has evidence, and not a blind faith and follow a man attitude.
I am secure enough to know that if anyone is true in their heart, they will see the truth. There is no need for violence, brainwashing, or persistent bothering of people, or any other like tactics, because light shines through darkness. You don't need to fight darkness, you only need to shine the light and if people want the light they will gladly receive it, if not they will run from it.
T8 you are promoting Christianity.You are not promoting God Almighty like a Jehovah's witness would, they are much more accurate than what you promote because they love GOD ALMIGHTY first in accordance with the principles of Christ.
Jehovah witnesses are the true Christians they are Muslims but don't call themselves Muslims but they are Muslims because they put God First.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,16:49) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 03 2010,15:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,10:23) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 30 2010,08:09) Schism. You know, like sunni, shia, sufism, ibadism, ahmadism (and bahá'ísm!).
Stuart
These all have no disagreement about ALLAH or the nature of Christ.
Christianity is older and bigger than Islam, so there will inevitably be more and bigger divisions. However, that said, this site is not about promoting Christianity anyway, rather Christ.So I agree that there are divisions just as there are in Islam and science.
I encourage all people to stay away from established mainline religions. They are institutions that serve to institutionalise their followers. Rather it is better to encourage people to know God for themselves and have a faith that has evidence, and not a blind faith and follow a man attitude.
I am secure enough to know that if anyone is true in their heart, they will see the truth. There is no need for violence, brainwashing, or persistent bothering of people, or any other like tactics, because light shines through darkness. You don't need to fight darkness, you only need to shine the light and if people want the light they will gladly receive it, if not they will run from it.
T8 you are promoting Christianity.You are not promoting God Almighty like a Jehovah's witness would, they are much more accurate than what you promote because they love GOD ALMIGHTY first in accordance with the principles of Christ.
Jehovah witnesses are the true Christians they are Muslims but don't call themselves Muslims but they are Muslims because they put God First.
Interesting comments.If your definition of “muslim” is “someone who puts God first” then fine, call JW's muslims.
Muslims and JW's have SOME similarities.
Being a JW isn't so much a religion as it is a way of life. Everything JW's do is based on some scripture.
Similarly, Islam seems to be a total way of life.We both agree with this:
A Qur’ānic commentary states: “The People of the Book went wrong: The Jews in breaking their Covenant, and slandering Mary and Jesus . . . and the Christians in raising Jesus the Apostle to equality with God” by means of the Trinity doctrine.—Surah 4:153-176, AYA.
But where you would say La ilāh illa Allāh, I would say La ilāh illa Jehovah.
Quote (david @ Feb. 03 2010,17:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,16:49) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 03 2010,15:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,10:23) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 30 2010,08:09) Schism. You know, like sunni, shia, sufism, ibadism, ahmadism (and bahá'ísm!).
Stuart
These all have no disagreement about ALLAH or the nature of Christ.
Christianity is older and bigger than Islam, so there will inevitably be more and bigger divisions. However, that said, this site is not about promoting Christianity anyway, rather Christ.So I agree that there are divisions just as there are in Islam and science.
I encourage all people to stay away from established mainline religions. They are institutions that serve to institutionalise their followers. Rather it is better to encourage people to know God for themselves and have a faith that has evidence, and not a blind faith and follow a man attitude.
I am secure enough to know that if anyone is true in their heart, they will see the truth. There is no need for violence, brainwashing, or persistent bothering of people, or any other like tactics, because light shines through darkness. You don't need to fight darkness, you only need to shine the light and if people want the light they will gladly receive it, if not they will run from it.
T8 you are promoting Christianity.You are not promoting God Almighty like a Jehovah's witness would, they are much more accurate than what you promote because they love GOD ALMIGHTY first in accordance with the principles of Christ.
Jehovah witnesses are the true Christians they are Muslims but don't call themselves Muslims but they are Muslims because they put God First.
Interesting comments.If your definition of “muslim” is “someone who puts God first” then fine, call JW's muslims.
Muslims and JW's have SOME similarities.
Being a JW isn't so much a religion as it is a way of life. Everything JW's do is based on some scripture.
Similarly, Islam seems to be a total way of life.We both agree with this:
A Qur’ānic commentary states: “The People of the Book went wrong: The Jews in breaking their Covenant, and slandering Mary and Jesus . . . and the Christians in raising Jesus the Apostle to equality with God” by means of the Trinity doctrine.—Surah 4:153-176, AYA.
But where you would say La ilāh illa Allāh, I would say La ilāh illa Jehovah.
That is not a problem at all because where you say Jehovah as a point of distinction we say ALLAH as a point of definition and what I mean is JW's say Jehovah to not confuse Jehovah with “other gods” but in Islam the Truth is fully explained that JEHOVAH is the ONLY GOD and therefore ALLAH is a word that can not be plural ever it simply means THE GOD because there is no other God formed before HIM nor was there any other God formed after HIM. He is GOD ALMIGHTY and there is no one else.In Arabic there is no such thing as allahs as there are gods in english or other languages. ALLAH is also gender neutral.
But to not profane the name of God to say ALLAH is to simply state a fact because there is only ALLAH who is JEHOVAH i.e. The One that causes to be.
Peace be unto you!
Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,10:23) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 30 2010,08:09) Schism. You know, like sunni, shia, sufism, ibadism, ahmadism (and bahá'ísm!).
Stuart
These all have no disagreement about ALLAH or the nature of Christ.
Non-sequitur. Read your own OP for details. You did not ask about the nature of Jesus, you asked why one group of christians do not consider other groups to be christians. I gave you examples of groups of muslims who mutually do not consider other groups to be muslims. I think you would probably say that of tha ahmadists at least, wouldn't you?Stuart
Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,16:49) T8 you are promoting Christianity. You are not promoting God Almighty like a Jehovah's witness would, they are much more accurate than what you promote because they love GOD ALMIGHTY first in accordance with the principles of Christ.
Jehovah witnesses are the true Christians they are Muslims but don't call themselves Muslims but they are Muslims because they put God First.
You are wrong about that BD.My message is not Christianity. You think that because of what you have been taught about the bible.
Christianity is loosely based on scripture with much tradition such as the Trinity Doctrine, Church authority, and a good outward appearance etc.
JWs are just another group unto themselves and have buildings and money schemes like any other organisation in the world. They are a group like the Catholics in that they are exclusive and they have their own power structure etc.
The Church (Body of Christ) on the other-hand is not like this. It is a temple made up of living stones which are people filled with God's Spirit. This group is not a denomination and is not an organisation, business, or political party. This group doesn't have a phone number or doesn't advertise in the local newspaper. This group is made up of many people from all over the world who are redeemed. Most do not understand what the Church is because they have been bombarded by these selfish groups who will try an convince you that they are exclusively Jesus Church or are the closest thing to it.
People in turn who lack understanding think that groups like JWs, Catholics, Mormon, etc are the actual Church. Yet in truth, all these groups were started by a man who was not Christ. We were even warned by Jesus and Paul about these times. These groups in truth do more damage to the message than even atheists because when a man wants to know the way, these groups swoop in for the kill and fight over disciples with their gospels causing much confusion. You see this here in these forums too. You have david trying his best to convince people that JWs are the Church, with no consideration that he is helping confuse those who seek the truth; there have been a number of Catholics who have tried to convince people here that they are the exclusive Church; and we have you who is trying to convince people that Islam is the truth. Of course there are many others I could mention.
What I am teaching and warning people about is to leave all this behind and follow Christ because it is he who leads us to God the Father. My message is to follow Christ and trust in no man. You cannot know or find God yourself because we are sinful creatures who are naturally separated from God. It is the messiah's job to make us holy and blameless before God. It is he who presents us to God.
You too belong to a religion that also blocks the way for men to enter in. When a man wants to know the truth, the biggest problem he will have is not atheism, but all these groups including your one, who say they are the way. In the end, the confusion puts many off because it is overwhelming. Even Stu, uses this confusion to ridicule the very idea of God.
These groups are like modern day Pharisees. Remember what Jesus said about the Pharisees.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
Some characteristics of Pharisees is that they place burdens on people and will not lift a finger to help. They make sure you know that they holy and better than you. They write laws to help you obey God's law better, and end up binding you up in a mesh of dos and don'ts. They make sure that the outside looks clean and don't bother with the inside. They shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces and themselves do not enter. They rip off the weak by taking their money. They love recognition of themselves and they dislike even hate Christ.
If you look closely at many denominations and other religions, you will see some similarities. They preach up a storm to take your money. They impose rules that God doesn't impose. They love their own name and love recognition. They spend much time trying to look good on the outside. They go out of their way to make one disciple who ends up as lost as they are. They preach the law, but neglect the spirit of the law such as love. They persecute those who are Christ-like. Of course not all groups are like that, but many mainline institutions are like this.
My message is to come out of them. That is also my message to you. Come out lest you become institutionalised. If you are already, then come out anyway and trust in Christ as your head. It is he who will reveal God to you and it is he who will present you to God, holy and blameless.
You don't need these crutches. God sent his son into the world so that they world may be saved through him.
I thank God that he has had such mercy on mankind.I should also mention that it is these men who lead men astray.
The JWs started because of Russell or some other guy whose name escapes me.
Catholics were started by Athanasius and Constantine. They were they ones that laid this stumbling block which led to this organisation.
Islam has Mohammed.
Mormons have Joseph Smith.
Atheists have Charles Darwin.But in all this what happened to Christ?
It is he who is the messiah and he is the head of his body, the body of Christ.So if you truly honour and love God, then why chase after these men or any of them?
Is it not better to follow Christ?Quote (Stu @ Feb. 03 2010,20:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,10:23) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 30 2010,08:09) Schism. You know, like sunni, shia, sufism, ibadism, ahmadism (and bahá'ísm!).
Stuart
These all have no disagreement about ALLAH or the nature of Christ.
Non-sequitur. Read your own OP for details. You did not ask about the nature of Jesus, you asked why one group of christians do not consider other groups to be christians. I gave you examples of groups of muslims who mutually do not consider other groups to be muslims. I think you would probably say that of tha ahmadists at least, wouldn't you?Stuart
You still don't know what a Muslim is, do you?A Muslim is not what one calls himself a Muslim is what one does i.e. Submits to God in Peace
A person may have never heard the word Muslim and has peacefully submitted to God. All Orthodox Jews who follow the Torah are Muslims, All Christians in any denomination that has submitted their wholeself to Jehovah are Muslims.
Do you still not understand
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 04 2010,00:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,16:49) T8 you are promoting Christianity. You are not promoting God Almighty like a Jehovah's witness would, they are much more accurate than what you promote because they love GOD ALMIGHTY first in accordance with the principles of Christ.
Jehovah witnesses are the true Christians they are Muslims but don't call themselves Muslims but they are Muslims because they put God First.
You are wrong about that BD.My message is not Christianity. You think that because of what you have been taught about the bible.
Christianity is loosely based on scripture with much tradition such as the Trinity Doctrine, Church authority, and a good outward appearance etc.
JWs are just another group unto themselves and have buildings and money schemes like any other organisation in the world. They are a group like the Catholics in that they are exclusive and they have their own power structure etc.
The Church (Body of Christ) on the other-hand is not like this. It is a temple made up of living stones which are people filled with God's Spirit. This group is not a denomination and is not an organisation, business, or political party. This group doesn't have a phone number or doesn't advertise in the local newspaper. This group is made up of many people from all over the world who are redeemed. Most do not understand what the Church is because they have been bombarded by these selfish groups who will try an convince you that they are exclusively Jesus Church or are the closest thing to it.
People in turn who lack understanding think that groups like JWs, Catholics, Mormon, etc are the actual Church. Yet in truth, all these groups were started by a man who was not Christ. We were even warned by Jesus and Paul about these times. These groups in truth do more damage to the message than even atheists because when a man wants to know the way, these groups swoop in for the kill and fight over disciples with their gospels causing much confusion. You see this here in these forums too. You have david trying his best to convince people that JWs are the Church, with no consideration that he is helping confuse those who seek the truth; there have been a number of Catholics who have tried to convince people here that they are the exclusive Church; and we have you who is trying to convince people that Islam is the truth. Of course there are many others I could mention.
What I am teaching and warning people about is to leave all this behind and follow Christ because it is he who leads us to God the Father. My message is to follow Christ and trust in no man. You cannot know or find God yourself because we are sinful creatures who are naturally separated from God. It is the messiah's job to make us holy and blameless before God. It is he who presents us to God.
You too belong to a religion that also blocks the way for men to enter in. When a man wants to know the truth, the biggest problem he will have is not atheism, but all these groups including your one, who say they are the way. In the end, the confusion puts many off because it is overwhelming. Even Stu, uses this confusion to ridicule the very idea of God.
These groups are like modern day Pharisees. Remember what Jesus said about the Pharisees.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
Some characteristics of Pharisees is that they place burdens on people and will not lift a finger to help. They make sure you know that they holy and better than you. They write laws to help you obey God's law better, and end up binding you up in a mesh of dos and don'ts. They make sure that the outside looks clean and don't bother with the inside. They shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces and themselves do not enter. They rip off the weak by taking their money. They love recognition of themselves and they dislike even hate Christ.
If you look closely at many denominations and other religions, you will see some similarities. They preach up a storm to take your money. They impose rules that God doesn't impose. They love their own name and love recognition. They spend much time trying to look good on the outside. They go out of their way to make one disciple who ends up as lost as they are. They preach the law, but neglect the spirit of the law such as love. They persecute those who are Christ-like. Of course not all groups are like that, but many mainline institutions are like this.
My message is to come out of them. That is also my message to you. Come out lest you become institutionalised. If you are already, then come out anyway and trust in Christ as your head. It is he who will reveal God to you and it is he who will present you to God, holy and blameless.
You don't need these crutches. God sent his son into the world so that they world may be saved through him.
I thank God that he has had such mercy on mankind.
Islam does not have a hiearchy, Muslims submit directly to God in accordance to the instructions given by the Messiah.The Quran explicitly states that we are to trust in God with All our heart, soul and mind.
In a Mosque there is someone who gives the call to prayer and that's it, There is no one telling you what to pray and each Muslim is as if he is in his own prayer closet.
Each one elbow to elbow. Sometimes there may be a speaker but they are not an authority and no one is required to stay and listen.
I myself do not even go to a Mosque me and My wife pray together and seperately.
Jesus said that you don't need him to present you to God nor to pray on your behalf
John 16:25-27 (King James Version)
25These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
26At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
27For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
This is the position of Islam and the Quran.
Jesus told his disciples to do things in his name because they lacked faith to do it themselves:
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Matthew 17:19-21You admittedly say Jesus is the prototype so that means you should do what he does not just follow him and to do what he does is to go to the Father directly. T8 you already said that your belief in Christ removed your sins and so how is it you feel that you cannot present yourself to God as a new creature, Christ already made the bridge for you so shouldn't you cross that bridge and embrace The Father?
But if you remain in doubt then that's okay too even the followers of Christ will be above the nonbelievers on the day of Judgement
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 04 2010,00:11) I should also mention that it is these men who lead men astray. The JWs started because of Russell or some other guy whose name escapes me.
Catholics were started by Athanasius and Constantine. They were they ones that laid this stumbling block which led to this organisation.
Islam has Mohammed.
Mormons have Joseph Smith.
Atheists have Charles Darwin.But in all this what happened to Christ?
It is he who is the messiah and he is the head of his body, the body of Christ.So if you truly honour and love God, then why chase after these men or any of them?
Is it not better to follow Christ?
Islam, has Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, David, Jonah and all the prophets and they all point to submitting to GodQuote (t8 @ Feb. 04 2010,00:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,16:49) T8 you are promoting Christianity. You are not promoting God Almighty like a Jehovah's witness would, they are much more accurate than what you promote because they love GOD ALMIGHTY first in accordance with the principles of Christ.
Jehovah witnesses are the true Christians they are Muslims but don't call themselves Muslims but they are Muslims because they put God First.
You are wrong about that BD.My message is not Christianity. You think that because of what you have been taught about the bible.
Christianity is loosely based on scripture with much tradition such as the Trinity Doctrine, Church authority, and a good outward appearance etc.
JWs are just another group unto themselves and have buildings and money schemes like any other organisation in the world. They are a group like the Catholics in that they are exclusive and they have their own power structure etc.
The Church (Body of Christ) on the other-hand is not like this. It is a temple made up of living stones which are people filled with God's Spirit. This group is not a denomination and is not an organisation, business, or political party. This group doesn't have a phone number or doesn't advertise in the local newspaper. This group is made up of many people from all over the world who are redeemed. Most do not understand what the Church is because they have been bombarded by these selfish groups who will try an convince you that they are exclusively Jesus Church or are the closest thing to it.
People in turn who lack understanding think that groups like JWs, Catholics, Mormon, etc are the actual Church. Yet in truth, all these groups were started by a man who was not Christ. We were even warned by Jesus and Paul about these times. These groups in truth do more damage to the message than even atheists because when a man wants to know the way, these groups swoop in for the kill and fight over disciples with their gospels causing much confusion. You see this here in these forums too. You have david trying his best to convince people that JWs are the Church, with no consideration that he is helping confuse those who seek the truth; there have been a number of Catholics who have tried to convince people here that they are the exclusive Church; and we have you who is trying to convince people that Islam is the truth. Of course there are many others I could mention.
What I am teaching and warning people about is to leave all this behind and follow Christ because it is he who leads us to God the Father. My message is to follow Christ and trust in no man. You cannot know or find God yourself because we are sinful creatures who are naturally separated from God. It is the messiah's job to make us holy and blameless before God. It is he who presents us to God.
You too belong to a religion that also blocks the way for men to enter in. When a man wants to know the truth, the biggest problem he will have is not atheism, but all these groups including your one, who say they are the way. In the end, the confusion puts many off because it is overwhelming. Even Stu, uses this confusion to ridicule the very idea of God.
These groups are like modern day Pharisees. Remember what Jesus said about the Pharisees.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
Some characteristics of Pharisees is that they place burdens on people and will not lift a finger to help. They make sure you know that they holy and better than you. They write laws to help you obey God's law better, and end up binding you up in a mesh of dos and don'ts. They make sure that the outside looks clean and don't bother with the inside. They shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces and themselves do not enter. They rip off the weak by taking their money. They love recognition of themselves and they dislike even hate Christ.
If you look closely at many denominations and other religions, you will see some similarities. They preach up a storm to take your money. They impose rules that God doesn't impose. They love their own name and love recognition. They spend much time trying to look good on the outside. They go out of their way to make one disciple who ends up as lost as they are. They preach the law, but neglect the spirit of the law such as love. They persecute those who are Christ-like. Of course not all groups are like that, but many mainline institutions are like this.
My message is to come out of them. That is also my message to you. Come out lest you become institutionalised. If you are already, then come out anyway and trust in Christ as your head. It is he who will reveal God to you and it is he who will present you to God, holy and blameless.
You don't need these crutches. God sent his son into the world so that they world may be saved through him.
I thank God that he has had such mercy on mankind.
Well said t8, that is so true! It all just makes perfect sense.Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 04 2010,06:43) [/quote]
Islam does not have a hiearchy, Muslims submit directly to God in accordance to the instructions given by the Messiah.The Quran explicitly states that we are to trust in God with All our heart, soul and mind.
In a Mosque there is someone who gives the call to prayer and that's it, There is no one telling you what to pray and each Muslim is as if he is in his own prayer closet.
Each one elbow to elbow. Sometimes there may be a speaker but they are not an authority and no one is required to stay and listen.
I myself do not even go to a Mosque me and My wife pray together and seperately.
This is what I liked about Islam, simple things like that.And the other things taught like kindness to animals, eg not cageing a bird,
Hospitality.
and “tithing” is to give directly to the poor. (Theres no money bag handed around).Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,12:17) You still don't know what a Muslim is, do you? A Muslim is not what one calls himself a Muslim is what one does i.e. Submits to God in Peace
A person may have never heard the word Muslim and has peacefully submitted to God. All Orthodox Jews who follow the Torah are Muslims, All Christians in any denomination that has submitted their wholeself to Jehovah are Muslims.
Do you still not understand
This site disagrees with you, so who are we to believe?http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/uiatm/un_islam.htm
How does someone become a Muslim?
Simply by saying 'there is no god apart from God, and Muhammad is the Messenger of God.' By this declaration the believer announces his or her faith in all God's messengers, and the scriptures they brought.
The bolded statement above says you must accept that Muhammad is the “Messenger of God”. Most Christians and Jews will not do that, so by the definition above, they are not Muslims.
Also, from http://islam.about.com/od/basicbeliefs/p/intro.htm
Who is a Muslim?:
A person who believes in and consciously follows Islam is called a Muslim, also from the same root word. So, the religion is called “Islam,” and a person who believes in and follows it is a “Muslim.”
Seems you do not agree with these people.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,13:43) Islam does not have a hiearchy, Muslims submit directly to God in accordance to the instructions given by the Messiah.
Again, I find other Muslims who disagree with you. From http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=803&CATE=3The statement that there is no hierarchy in Islam is false, Allah Most High in the Qur'an differentiated between selected Prophets and others, between the earlier believers and the later believers, between those whose belief holds complete sway over them and those who admix their faith with sins, between the Anbiya', the Siddiqin, the Shuhada' and the Salihin, between the Darajaat or levels that the Believers receive from their Lord, between those who possess hikma, fiqh, albab, absar, Iman etc. as opposed to those who possess merely Islam, between those whose hearts shake at His mention as opposed to the rest, etc. It is all about hierarchy even among the disbelievers, some being closer to belief than others. To say there is no hierarchy in Islam is as novel a concept as it is a novel wording.
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