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Eze 18:20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
Eze 18:21 “But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.Exo 32:31 So Moses returned to the LORD and said, “Alas, this people has sinned a great sin. They have made for themselves gods of gold.
Exo 32:32 But now, if you will forgive their sin–but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written.”
Exo 32:33 But the LORD said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book.Jer 31:30 But everyone shall die for his own sin. Each man who eats sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.
===============================According to Tanakh, each person is responsible for his/her own sins. In each passage above, death is the result of wickedness. Thus, the logical conclusions since (a) one person cannot sins for another (b) each person dies for their own sins is that Jesus was put to death for his own wickedness!
But what did Jesus do? Well
Eze 14:9 And if the prophet is deceived and speaks a word, I, the LORD, have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
In many places Jesus falsely prophecied. He said his return would be soon, during the disciples lifetime, and that the kingdom of heaven was at hand. Both false. In Revelation he supposedly said to John
Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
Who considers almost 2000 years later as “soon”? Again, false prophecy.
Thus we can see that false prophecy is a sin, and each dies for their own sin. According to Tanakh then, Jesus died because he was a false prophet. He also died for declaring he was a king under Roman rule.
Deut 13:1-4 is all about Jesus.
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Deu 13:1 “If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, 'Let us go after other gods,' which you have not known, 'and let us serve them,'
Deu 13:3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the LORD your God is testing you, to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 13:4 You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him.
==================================Jews did not know this “god the father” person or a person who claimed to be the son of G-d. Thus the Jews saw Jesus as making himself out to be a god.
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Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,1Ti 3:16 Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
Joh 14:19 Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.
Joh 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
=====================================The last one is so very telling. Jesus did not correct Thomas, he said:
Joh 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Thus Jesus also died because
Jer 10:11 Thus shall you say to them: “The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens.”
Here is another prophecy about Jesus besides Deu 13:
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Eze 28:9 Will you still say, 'I am a god,' in the presence of those who kill you, though you are but a man, and no god, in the hands of those who slay you?
Eze 28:10 You shall die the death of the uncircumcised by the hand of foreigners; for I have spoken, declares the Lord GOD.”
=================================Jesus died a Roman death on a Roman cross.
Now you know the real reason Jesus died.
Hi Tow,
The real reason was your clinging sin and mine.
The scapegoat died that all may live.
Such is real love.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 02 2008,17:35) Hi Tow,
The real reason was your clinging sin and mine.
The scapegoat died that all may live.
Such is real love.
I provide scriptural evidence you provide opinion. Weak.Hi Tow,
You who do not even accept the OT would agree a man should die because of it?
You who is not a jew would use the jewish law to judge a man?
Would you too have whipped and pierced him?
Would you too say” His blood be on us and on our children”?
Paul went there.
But he had a wake up call before he enjoyed the fruits.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 02 2008,18:35) Hi Tow,
You who do not even accept the OT would agree a man should die because of it?As many times as I've explained this to you, you still twist it. No matter, the fact is you say YOU accept the OT as infallible, correct? So therefore, why can YOU not accept what is written?
Quote You who is not a jew would use the jewish law to judge a man? I just call 'em as I see 'em. Jesus stands guilty according to Tanakh.
Quote Would you too have whipped and pierced him?
Would you too say” His blood be on us and on our children”?
No I wouldn't and no they didn't. Oh the Romans likely beat him and killed him, but they Jews did not do as the GT says. There is no historical record outside of the GT supporting the persecution of Christians by Jews so why would I believe the Jews would have said this? Just more fabrications to make it appear that the Romans were just duped by the conniving Jews. To actually lay the blame rightfully on Jesus for proclaiming he was a king in front of Pilate, they started the Christian anti-semitic trend by such statements as this. So many people killed because of a lying book.
Quote Paul went there.
But he had a wake up call before he enjoyed the fruits.
Paul had a personal spasmodic attack and claimed Jesus spoke with him. No one else heard the voice yet the nation of Israel heard G-d on Mt. Sinai. Why did Jesus have to be so secretive, even after his supposed ascension? Why not a national revelation like Mt. Sinai?Because a personal revelation can be faked while a national one cannot.
Hi Tow,
Since you only know of Christ Jesus through the NT, which you reject, why are you so keen to discredit him?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 02 2008,19:02) Hi Tow,
Since you only know of Christ Jesus through the NT, which you reject, why are you so keen to discredit him?
Because Christians claim Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and product of G-d and a human virgin. Leave the Tanakh (and OT) out of your faith, find another god to be Jesus' daddy, and there will be no issues.Hi Tow,
You need to review the OT and discover more by the revelations shown in the NT.
The Son of God was sent to save you.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 02 2008,19:13) Hi Tow,
You need to review the OT and discover more by the revelations shown in the NT.
The Son of God was sent to save you.
I return your advice back upon you. Review of Tanakh is what made me shed the false religion of Christianity.Hi Tow,
Have you tasted the new wine of the powers of the age to come?
Did it burst your wineskin?
You need to be born again.I thought that the powers and principalities of the GT were satan and his buddies? Why would I want that? Worse than ripple.
Hi Tow,
Indeed the principalities and powers should no longer control you if you are in Christ.
But the God of Creation has not become impotent.
He wants faith here to show His work.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 02 2008,17:35) Hi Tow,
The real reason was your clinging sin and mine.
The scapegoat died that all may live.
Such is real love.
BTW, you obviously know so little of your OT that you don't realize that the scapegoat was not killed. It was sent into the wilderness.Lev 16:21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, and confess over it all the iniquities of the people of Israel, and all their transgressions, all their sins. And he shall put them on the head of the goat and send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a man who is in readiness.
So little knowledge leads you to the false religion you adhere to even today.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 02 2008,19:44) Hi Tow,
Indeed the principalities and powers should no longer control you if you are in Christ.
But the God of Creation has not become impotent.
He wants faith here to show His work.
An impotent god needs to sacrifice his own son to make up for his mistakes.Hi Tow,
God allowed puny men to help in His work of cleansing the heavens and earth of sin.
One had to come and overcome Satan here to reverse his works.
Christ came to destroy the works of Satan.
How priviledged we are to help.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 02 2008,19:48) Hi Tow,
God allowed puny men to help in His work of cleansing the heavens and earth of sin.Sounds like a puny god.
Quote One had to come and overcome Satan here to reverse his works. Again, sounds like a puny god.
Quote Christ came to destroy the works of Satan.
How priviledged we are to help.
My G-d is doesn't need my help. Seems you are the one serving a puny god.
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