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Hi All
If one supposes the trinity doctrine true they will not understand this post at all. It just won't work! Previously, to creating time their existed the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. This is the Royal Family. Even though the bible calls angels sons of God as Adam, they are not in this well-known relationship.
The angels do not reproduce as the Adam's family, no pun intended, but prepared independently. Therefore, in the beginning the Father through His Son created the physical universe.
So the question remains open, why did God plan and create the cosmos? Why did he bring us into existence? Did this plan go haywire due to Satan's wants, and Adams fall forcing Him into a backup plan?
BT
Quote (before Time @ Aug. 25 2008,04:31) why did God plan and create the cosmos?
Hi BF,I sure don't have all the answers you seek, but I'm so glad that God created the stars! Last night I saw 3 satellites and a shooting star. There were so many stars out that I was utterly amazed and grateful to be a part of this awesome Creation.
Not having all the answers is part of enjoying the journey, I've decided. If we were supposed to have all the answers, we would have them – right?
Take care,
MandyHi Mandy
The creation as you said sure is stunning for the Word says so. (Romans 1:20) But God's work in His New Creation goes beyond our imagination by the hope we look forward to. This life is a bus stop as we wait for the means of transport (Christ) to our new home, and one day the bus will halt and with anticipation; we hear gets aboard.
There is an explanation to the answers of those questions, find out what God has currently he didn't before the foundation of the world. He has an extended family in hope of adopted from earth bringing many sons to glory (Gal. 4:4 Heb. 2:10). Giving Jesus siblings he never had before. (Heb.2:13) This is God's predestined plan carried out by our Lord Jesus. (Romans 8:13-17, 23, 28-30)
Just one thought Mandy, the reason I said in the opening post a Trinitarian wouldn’t recognize this was because how Jesus can be your brother and father at the same time. It would be too hard to accept a family conception leaving one with religion only.
As far as having all the answers as you said there would be no need to journey, I agree.
BT
Hi BT,
Indeed.
John 13:33
Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.John 21:5
Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No.Hi BT,
If God calls some angels his sons then they are.
Sonship is also as having a proper father son relationship.
Thus the rebellious ones in Israel were called sons of Satan and not God or AbrahamHi Beforetime:
You ask:
Quote So the question remains open, why did God plan and create the cosmos? Why did he bring us into existence? Did this plan go haywire due to Satan's wants, and Adams fall forcing Him into a backup plan? Let me first say that I do not believe that Jesus pre-existed his advent into this earth but he was fore-ordained by God.
God has forseen everything from the beginning to the end, and so, no, the fall of Adam and Eve did not cause him to put “plan B” into effect.
God made man in His own image. The first man was made a living soul or person who was like God in that he had a mind, a free will and emotions. The last Adam, that is Jesus, became like God, who is a spirit of love, as he learned to apply the Word of God in his daily life here on earth. In this earth is where there is a place to put God's Word into practice.
The scripture states:
Quote Hbr 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Hbr 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;God created the cosmos so that he could call men into a relationship with Him by their own free will when they are called, and so that He could show mankind how much He loved us by providing the propitiation for our sins, and as our Father He could instruct us as His children through His only begotten Son and His Christ, our Lord Jesus. It is in this world that we as born again believers can become like our Lord Jesus as we learn to apply God's Word to our daily lives as our Lord did. We could not become like Jesus if there was no place to put God's Word into practice.
Since all of humanity has sinned, we who are being saved cannot boast are any better than anyone else, but we can as the body of Christ let those who will hear of God's wonderful plan for their lives, and we can glorify God through the life that we live so that they can see the love of God manifest through our lives. All of this God has seen in His wisdom.
He created this temorpary world so that He could save His children and bring them to their ultimate destination, paradise on earth.
Quote 1Cr 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him God Bless
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 25 2008,07:59) Hi BT,
If God calls some angels his sons then they are.
Sonship is also as having a proper father son relationship.
Thus the rebellious ones in Israel were called sons of Satan and not God or Abraham
The Father also differentiates between his “sons” and his “Son”. I wonder what the difference is? Oh, ya, that's another thread….
Hi,
My opinion?
God wanted to shame the rebellious angels in heaven by raising up puny weak men of dirt,
yet find one of them by grace who was to perfectly satisfy His will, unlike those angels.Ephesians 3:10
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,I think the cosmos are a big Clock, for GODS plan.
Just in our own little area here that we have been given…the earth rotates to make a day, the moon orbits the earth to make a month, the Earth orbits the Sun to make a Year.
That is a clock…just some of it…
Who knows what the rest of the moving parts in the cosmos are set to keep time for what?
But we do know that one day Time will be no more:
Quote
Revelation 10:6
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:Can you even imagine anything with out a time limit on it?
Life with no time limit…a day that never ends?Going somewhere with no particular time to be there …because time does not even exist?
Have you even tried to imagine what it might be like? I mean given it any serious thought at all?
I think that the cosmos represents Time…the very point at which time “Popped” into existence.
Which is why I believe that the scientist that believe in a Big Bang Theory…are probably close to the truth in part.
Just thinking about the Big Bang Theory…sounds like the awesome power of GOD…breathing that breath and everything that was just Flew into existence…and that was the very starting point that he created Time.
Which we are told will Cease to exist. Time is a very peculiar thing really. To use we can not imagine life without it.
When it all actuality everything that is under the law of “Time” has a beginning and and end. To include “Time” itself. It started…thus at the time that is shall be no more it will end.Does that mean the cosmos will be no more? I don't know…possibly I'm sure exactly how GOD is going to go about the rest of the things that are to come to pass within this Time Frame that has been created. All I know is that he will do them.
They will happen…just the way he has planned for them to happen.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 25 2008,08:41) Hi,
My opinion?
God wanted to shame the rebellious angels in heaven by raising up puny weak men of dirt,
yet find one of them by grace who was to perfectly satisfy His will, unlike those angels.Ephesians 3:10
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Hi all
Quote If God calls some angels his sons then they are.
Sonship is also as having a proper father son relationship.
Thus the rebellious ones in Israel were called sons of Satan and not God or AbrahamFor one to be called a true son of God in an intimate way the son ought to share the Devine nature or be adopted. In like manner Adam’s first born shared in his humanity.
The angels were neither of the two. When Jesus claimed to be the son of God the religious leaders were eager to stone Him. They would not be willing to stone Christ if he expressed himself as the Son of God if we assert the angels or men are called the sons of God in the same way.
BT
Hi BT,
They objected to him calling himself THE son of God.
They had been known as sons.Deut 14
1Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.They knew from Ps2 and prov 30 that God had a particular anointed Son who shared God's ruling authority.
One of the reasons that the Pharisees did not like Jesus so much was because he was forgiving people of sins, and really…he took away all the authority they had. Up until then you had to go to these hypocrites to get a sacrifice and give lots of offerings so they could pray for you.
Now, all you have to do is go straight to the Father in the Name of Jesus.
That the big kicker right there.
They just used this as their only “Valid” excuse IMO. To kill him.
They actually hated him for so much more, they hated him because he is heir to the Kingdom of GOD.
They thought if they killed him they would be heir.Yes this is scriptural:
Matthew 21
8But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.I believe prior to the physical universe, is when sin was first found in satan, however I believe it was only apparent to God. And God knew that the sin in satan would spread and ruin all of heaven itself. So He created the lake of fire to destroy the irredeemable (which I believe that those exposed to Gods glory and yet still allow sin a place cannot be redeemed). But If He were to just throw satan into the lake of fire without his sins being apparent to the rest of heavens inhabitants (the other 2/3's), they would not see the Love and Justice of God (as I do not believe that satan had done anything openly evil yet) however if He waited for the results of sin to be apparent it would be eternally devastating.
I believe it was at this point God created the physical universe with the intent purpose of exposing what sin would do if allowed to run unchecked (but in a finite environment) and to show the length He would go and the price He would pay to redeem His creation, if it was possible.
Now I believe that it is quite apparent to all of heavens inhabitants what the end results of sin are and God who would have been reduced in stature had He have tried to explain His actions, is glorified for His wisdom, Holiness, Love and forgiveness. He has also gained more sons proven through fire than He lost to satan.
That concept is in keeping with the justice that God requires but with the Love that God is.
Just my opinion (although I believe it to be backed by scripture).
Wm
Why do we bring children into existence?
OK, some bring them into the world by mistake or unintentionally, but why do people who want children bring them into the world?I think the answer is the same as why God wanted to bring children into existence and the fact that we call him Father proves the answer too.
Quote Why do we bring children into existence?
OK, some bring them into the world by mistake or unintentionally, but why do people who want children bring them into the world?Well said T8 and everything else is just religion. Christianity is the only religious conviction that can claim this concept and by doing so bring glory to God our Father in Heaven. Think of the family concept when reading the scriptures, it is a Fathers letter written to His Children. See your Father in heaven as real as you see your father on earth. May all go well with you in your journey to His home, for our hope is Adoption on the road to a life, which is life indeed.
I think the answer is the same as why God wanted to bring children into existence and the fact that we call him Father proves the answer too.
The reason God wanted children was to give Jesus siblings and to share His glory, the glory He had before the world was made. A father wants children so they can share what they have with them, and leap for joy when He sees them get pleasure from the gift. And so God has brought many sons to glory
John 17:5 “Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Heb 2: 13 And again, “I will put my trust in him.” And again he says, “Here am I, and the children God has given me.” NIV
Rom 8:15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, ” Abba! Father!”
John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'”
Mark 14:36 And He was saying, ” Abba! Father! All things are possible for You; remove this cup from Me; yet not what I will, but what You will.”
This was God’s plan before creation to make us conform to the image of Jesus our eldest brother.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
BT
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