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Brandon,
As far as the baal gad thing goes, Elijah hasn't proven a thing. Go back and look at his post. He says a lot about the KJV and some reference in the middle of it, and quotes some very good scriptures which don't help his argument at all, and voila, baal gad=lord god, which he keeps repeating in adfinitum. I've gone through everything he said on that and it seems quite lacking. And yes, he has recently pointed out that “gad” may have been pronounced “gawd.” And this proves what exactly?For the word god, I would like to do some actual research myself.
Free-definition.com
god
The word God comes from the Old English/German/Norse language family and is equivalent to the derivatives of the Latin word Deus. The meaning and etymology behind the Germanic/Indo-European word God as used in English and its cognates (such as Gott in modern German) have been hotly disputed, though most agree in a reconstructed Proto-Indo-European form *g'hutóm, which means something like “possession” or “inspiration”, and could be related to everything from the old Germanic divinity Wotan/Odin to the Greek word khute, meaning “libation”.This is a quote from someone else named David (not me) taken from another forum on Baal gad:
“Before the Bible was translated, there were already several words for the almighty, the all powerful, object of worship and so on. Some of those words were gott, gu, go and gud, each having only a slight varience in meaning. English, being what it is, shortens things a lot in regular speech patterns. This is what many did at the time, calling all of them “god”, meaning the object of your worship AND the almighty in different contexts.
When the Bible was translated to English, it seemed sensable to the translaters to tranlate words with those meanings to the common use English word with those meanings, “God”.”Brandon, the word easter and easter customs themsleves are of of pagan origin.
The word “god” and not God himself has been “hotly disputed,” as the dictionary above says.I think more thought and research are required before saying:
“God” is bad.
I keep getting the feeling in the back of my head that this is something Satan wants us to think.
david
This paper is available from the World Wide Web page:
http://www.logon.org and http://www.ccg.orgThe Etymology of the Name of God
Objections to the use of the word God, stem from the understanding that the Babylonian deity of fortune was Baal-Gad (pronounced gawd). It is then assumed that the term is pagan if the word God is used.
The term God in the ancient Anglo-Saxon comes from the word Goode, or Goot as in the Dutch and German. The word is actually a Hebrew word from which gad itself in the sense of SHD 1410 is derived. The word is SHD 1464 Guwd (pronounced goode). The tribes of Israel, when taken into captivity, took with them this name. It was used also by the Assyrians who captured them. It is a prime root meaning to crowd upon or attack and this means to invade or to overcome. It is this sense of overcoming, as God is the centre of power, that the term is used. Guwd or Goode is not the same as gad or Baal-Gad worshipped by the Babylonians. One is a perversion of the concepts of the other.
The word God is derived from the old Teutonic form gudo which means that which is invoked (or worshipped) by sacrifice (cf. Oxford English Universal Dictionary, art. God, p. 808). This was adapted among the Teutonic tribes in the variant forms.
The words are further misunderstood from a symbolism adopted in the early Hebrew and among the Semites. This was instanced in the practice of referring to the deity by the symbolism of a bull. The clear indication comes from Psalm 22:12. The strong Bulls of Bashan, which are associated with Gilead are of the word form SHD 47. This word and the word form SHD 6499 are combined in usage, and both are termed bulls.
The word rendered strong bulls is actually the word abbiyr derived from SHD 46 'abiyr meaning mighty one and spoken of God. SHD 47 abbiyr means angel [heavenly messenger], bull or chiefest, mighty one, stout, strong or valiant.
The terms occur in Psalm 22:12 where the bulls are also reduced to lesser beings. They occur in Psalm 50:13; 68:30; Isaiah 34:7; and Jeremiah. 50:11. Jeremiah 52:20 refers to the twelve brazen bulls under the altar by the term SHD 1241 baqar in distinction to the term abbiyr which he uses elsewhere.
The representation of the loyal heavenly Host as bulls representing God is ancient, even being found in pre-Hebrew culture. The Babylonian system in its mystery cults adopted the bull-slaying typology, which carried into Mithraism. The bull-slaying typology is a representation of the wars in the heavens (see David Ulansey The Origins of the Mithraic Mysteries, Oxford, 1989 for the cosmology; Perseus is the bull-slayer for the Mysteries). This symbolism is carried on in the association with the mighty one and the centrality of goodness or Gott or Goode.
The English word God, via the Teutonic Gudo and the earlier forms, is associated with the ancient Semitic and Hebrew as we see above. Thus, the bull was both symbol of reverence and the significant sacrifice. Hence, the name came to be associated with the bull. This pointed towards the sacrifice of Messiah as the Bull of Atonement. This understanding was long held among the Semites from Shem as high priest from the post-flood epoch. From recent finds, it seems this was further distorted in the system at Ur.
Yahovah is the Bull of Israel. He is Messiah as the Great Bull of Heaven acting for the Father, the centre of ultimate goodness. God, in this sense, forms the centrality of ultimate goodness and it is in this sense only that it is used. In the same way, a tribe of Israel is named Gad. Does this mean that the patriarchs were pagans? No, it does not. Gad means that troop or The Host. The Gadites were called thus from SHD 1425. We will see that it means the overcomers or perhaps the invaders – perhaps even in the sense that the Assyrians could be called God’s hammer. This name in the Greek is rendered Gad from SGD 1045.
One of the twelve spies (from Manasseh) was named Gaddi or Gaddiel (SHD 1426,1427). This differs from Gaddi father of Menahem (SHD 1424). The name means blessed or fortunate. Gaddiel means Blessing of El rendered by Strong as Fortune of God. The term fortunate in the English is an incorrect term. The word might be more correctly blessed. The term translated blessed in Hebrew is actually two word roots. The one is SHD 1288 barak meaning to kneel and, hence by implication, to bless God as an act of adoration and vice versa. It is also used as an act of treason by euphemism. The other term is SHD 835 'esher meaning happy and, hence, blessed. This is a masculine plural construction as an interjection, hence Happy! Gad and gaddi[el] is the sense of the actual results of the blessings.
More particularly, God’s prophet to David was also Gad using exactly the same name. If this was a problem, do you not think that God would have chosen and instructed His own prophet without correcting him. The term gad comes from the sense of distributing and derives its sense of fortune and fortunate. Fortune is derived from the Roman deity Fortuna and Luck is an Egyptian deity. This became Baal-Gad with the Babylonians. The sense of distribution found in Gad denotes Good. Hence, God is the centrality of this good or distribution or blessings.
Baal-Gawd is the Canaanite-Semitic equivalent of the term Lord-God who we know as the Father. We see the blessing comes from the centrality of goodness whereas the Babylonians, the Semites and Canaanites personalised the term to another single deity making it the Lord of Distributions or Bounty. This is like a cargo cult mentality.
This was a perversion of the original understanding where God was the centre of goodness and the deity of the Host or the troops of the heavens. Hence Gad, as tribe and prophet, indicates that the cause of the blessings and the numbers of Israel is the God of Hosts, the God of Israel.
Using the word God is no more blaspheming than if the voodoo witch doctors in Haiti started using biblical names for pagan practice. Their blasphemy does not undermine our proper use any more than the practice of Rome invalidates Christianity.
David, you actually don't realize WHO and what you just quoted do you?
You quoted ” Wade Cox's ” article, which you must believe that since this article misuses scriptures and mis-apply scriptures, its ok to use the pagan word G-d.
“”
Quote Yahovah is the Bull of Israel. He is Messiah as the Great Bull of Heaven acting for the Father, the centre of ultimate goodness. God, in this sense, forms the centrality of ultimate goodness and it is in this sense only that it is used. In the same way, a tribe of Israel is named Gad. Does this mean that the patriarchs were pagans? No, it does not. Gad means that troop or The Host. The Gadites were called thus from SHD 1425. We will see that it means the overcomers or perhaps the invaders – perhaps even in the sense that the Assyrians could be called God’s hammer. This name in the Greek is rendered Gad from SGD 1045. Where do the scriptures call Messiah “”
Quote Yahovah is the Bull of Israel. He is Messiah as the Great Bull of Heaven acting for the Father, the centre of ultimate goodness. Where do the scriptures call YHWH and Messiah “” the great bull of heaven “”?
This man is Blaspheming YHWH and Messiah, no where in scriptures does it represent YHWH or Messiah as a “” BULL “”.
The scriptures represent Messiah as a ” Lamb ” who was sacrificed for the sins of many, but never as a ” BULL””.
David, I've studied this man and his organization's teachings, and I have a SPECIAL ARTICLE that mentions Mr. Wade Cox and his “” BULL WORSHIP “” ideas.
I will put this Article up tonight, and you would do well to read it very carefully, as it also uses articles quoted directly from “” INSIGHT ON THE SCRIPTURES “” that prove the facts concerning pagan worship today in christianity.
David, I'm shocked that you would quote an article from someone that in actual fact promotes Messiah as a ” bull ” in modern BULL WORSHIP.
This man has made SEVERAL ERRORS which will be pointed out in this Article tonight.
Elijah, listen babe, you are right. I probably shouldn't have posted it, especially since I personally disagree with some of what he says, and didn't really read the article over very well. There's not a lot of people out there that actually discuss this baal gad thing other than you. I finally found someone who actually discussed it other than you and wanted to present the other side of the coin.
I wish to retract that last post. Please, let's not move into “modern BULL WORSHIP.” Please, anything but that. I'm just getting into this “baal gad” topic finally.
“I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes.” (Matthew 11:25)
Quote (BrandonIke @ Sep. 17 2005,12:35) on 9/17/2005, 07:47 is 1:18 asked, “Have you completely eliminated all semblence of paganism from you life Eliyah?? No slip ups??” c'mon, is 1:18, that's like shooting the messenger. let's take a look at the message. the people wanted to kill the adulteress with stones. then jesus said that whoever has not sinned throw the first stone. is 1:18, are you going to throw? don't attack the messenger personally. i want to know to the truth, but i'm not going to deny by trying to hold eliyah up to such tough strict standards.
Hey brandon,
They're not my standards, they're his. He has been pushing the “a little leaven”, “no such thing as a little paganism” message. But I just wonder whether he is able to adhere to these rules. I think its unlikely (actually impossible) anyone could excise all elements of paganism from their existence – unless they completely isolate themselves from the world. But, then it would be difficult to be the salt and light that Jesus has called us to be. Comprende?Be well
Listen Is 1:18 ,
I answered ALL your questions last night after you went beddy by, go BACK and LOOK at them.
WHY didn't you answer my questions last night, or even today? Is that WHY you show a picture at the left of the screen with a person that has a ” VEIL ” over their face, because they don't want to obey the truth, and pretend they can't see it?
BrandonIke, go back and look at them in this same topic.
Hi Eliyah,
I have a life outside of message boards so excuse me if I don't respond to you posts immediately. I will go back and see what you have asked but i'm sure others have already addressed them.Be well
BTW, I haven't seen specific answers to these qs:
Quote Have you completely eliminated all semblence of paganism from you life Eliyah?? No slip ups?? ever? Yes or no?
Quote Have you used any of the following words in the last week Eliyah: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday?
An honest answer please.
yes or no?Posted: Sep. 17 2005,09:46
——————————————————————————–
IS 1:18,You asked “”Quote
Have you completely eliminated all semblence of paganism from you® life Eliyah?? No slip ups?? ever?Yes, when I first discovered this I made “” slip ups “”,but if one is persistant and honest in asking Yah for help to remove them, He will help you .
However, there is a “” DIFFERENCE “” in someone who is honest and really trying to stop using pagan words in their worship and walk with Yahweh and who “” slip up “”
as you call it, and ask in forgiveness each and every day for ” those slip ups ” as you call it.However, there is a BIG DIFFERENCE when someone who KNOWS the truth as has been shown, and that ONE purposely ignoring it and is not even interested in willingness to correcting themselves, and are wilfully ignorant in asking forgiveness and repenting each day.
For WHO was it that said “” Be ye therefore(Strive) perfect, as your ( true) FATHER IN HEAVEN IS PERFECT””.
Who said that?
He did NOT say “” Be ye therefore wilfully dumb and ignorant as your false father( satan the devil-John 8:44) which roams this earth who is perverted from being perfect.””
What do the scriptures say about wilfully ignorant people?
You seem to think that Striving for perfection in Messiah , that it is a ” burden ” to do so.
Did Messiah say it was a ” burden ” to OBEY Yah's Commands and to live by and in every Word of scriptures?
Well, it seems that You imply to condemn me for teaching and living in the very principals of scriptures that Messiah Himself taught, and claim that they are a ” burden “, then you yourself claim to obey and follow the true Messiah of scriptures.
I have answered your questions, but you will not answer mine with scriptures will you? “” Unquote from last night.
It is ALL the wilfully ignorant that are dammed( See Paul's writings) and will be burned to ashes.
IS 1:18, you can condemn me all you want for doing as Messiah did and said to do, but the religious leaders of His day condemned Him too because of His UN-wanted message that He proclaimed.
For this cause was I born, and for this reason came i into the world, and I have made a vow to carry out Yah's will of restoring His true Name and His Torah to a rebellious society that is in fact worshipping the false ” father “( John 8:44) satan the devil( Rev.9:20; Rev.13:3-4, 8) through deception( Rev.12:9), and there is NO POWER on earth to STOP ME, as YHWH Himself IS THE GREAT POWER that is behind this message.
Not this one:
Quote Have you used any of the following words in the last week Eliyah: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday?
Quote (Eliyah @ Sep. 17 2005,08:15) Is 1:18, Now, I want to ask YOU, where do the scriptures ” name the dys.” after the pagans, as modern baal religionists use??
Eliyah,
It's irrelevant whether the terms are used in scripture or not bc they're still a pagan extraction. So using them would be, according to you Eliyah, idolatry. And, as you've already elucidated, “a little leaven…..”Be well
Is 1:18 ,
No, I do not ” purposely ” use those ” beast “( Rev.13:15) pagan names, as I said before, IF I use them, it is to show and prove truth of scriptures for a time, but IF I do make ” slip ups ” as you call it, I do ask in repentance for forgiveness each day, and ask YHWH and Messiah for their Spirit for help.
There is a DIFFERENCE between being wilfully ignorant of the truth and disobeying it, than being willing to repent and change according to YHWH'S Commandments, Statutes, and Judgements.
Now, go answer ALL my questions that I asked you last night?
is 1:18 will throw the first stone to kill the adulteress in front of jesus. john 8:3-7, “The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman taken in adultery. Having set her in the midst, they told him, 'Teacher, we found this woman in adultery, in the very act. Now in our law, Moses commanded us to stone such. What then do you say about her?' They said this testing him, that they might have something to accuse him of. But Jesus stooped down, and wrote on the ground with his finger. But when they continued asking him, he looked up and said to them, 'He who is without sin among you, let him throw the first stone at her.'”
let's ask if is 1:18 has follow every single one of his own standards every single day. have you lied yesterday? have you stolen ever? have you cheated on a tax report? judge not lest you be judged, is 1:18. i don't want to accuse you, but i'm trying to prove a point. if you accuse eliyah personally, then how about yourself?
Quote (Eliyah @ Sep. 17 2005,08:34)
Eliyah,Quote No, I do not, and my ABOVE post tells you WHY too. I only use the days as the scriptures use, and ALL Hebrew ( Yom) are numbered, 1st, 2nd,3rd,4th,5th,and the 6th is called ” Preparation “, and the 7th is called the Shabbat.
Really? are you being completely honest here? So Eliyah, when you call to make an appointment with the dentist or to book a plumber do you solely use this phraseology? Almost no one would understand you Eliyah. How do you make yourself understood to those uneducated in hebraic chronological vernacular?Quote I only use ” pagan words ” to point out the truth as it pertains to Yah and His Word, and even then, I ask Him to forgive me for using them.
So you wilfully use pagan words then?Quote I will give you some advice , and whether you choose to do it, is up to you, but you had better LOVE THE TRUTH OF SCRIPTURES enough to search out the truth, because it is those that do not who are dammed( Read that from Paul).
Thanks for the advice Eliyah but having already been “sealed” in Christ Jesus there will be condemnation for me (Paul also wrote that).Be well
You said, “”
Quote It's irrelevant whether the terms are used in scripture or not bc they're still a pagan extraction. Its “” irrelevant “” for you because NO SUCH words are ever mentioned by those in the scriptures, as it is a Command to NOT to do so( Exod.23:13: Joshua 23:5-7).
Therefore since you evidently believe that its ok to use them in wilful ignorance, then you are not truely of YHWH either then are ye?
Quote Have you used any of the following words in the last week Eliyah: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday?
well…..?Your pagan “” christos JE'ZEUS “” will not save you from your own words of condemnation that will judge you in the end.
Go ANSWER ALL those questions I asked You last night, or are You a “LIAR ” as well ?
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