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So who did Jesus put to shame? Which principalities and powers (of the Law I might add) did he put to shame.
Col. 2
16Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18Let no one(AQ) disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels
WORSHIP OF ANGELS associated with LAW followers.
14by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him
looks to me like he put the angel who gave the Law to shame.
Who is the God of this world? Jehovah. What sways goverment and starts war the spirit of Jehovah. The earth does belong to Jehovah he IS the God of this world.
Who is the big satan (lying spirit) in charge of the little satans (lying spirit)?
Jehovah in the OT sends lying spirits, deceives prophets, hardens hearts and creates evil.
Jehovah is the liar from the beginning. Read genesis again and see who actually lied. Seriously!
Deuteronomy 32:8-9 has Jehovah as a “watcher” over Israel and El Elyon (Most High) the True God.
This is found in the septuagint and the Dead Sea scrolls.
In masoretic tradition the verse was changed. It was also changed in verse 43.
Yet the author of hebrews quotes vs. 43 as it is found in the septuagint.
Quote Who is the God of this world? Jehovah. Some Bible research disagrees with you. Nowhere at all in scripture is Jehovah God called the “ruler of this world.” On the contrary, 4 places in scripture Jesus referred to Satan as the “ruler of this [or “the”] world.”
And remember when Satan “tempted” Jesus by offering him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. Not much of a temptation if he couldn't actually offer it.Anyway, I have to sleep. Just caught that one sentence and couldn't let it be.
Quote Who is the God of this world? Jehovah. What sways goverment and starts war the spirit of Jehovah. The earth does belong to Jehovah he IS the God of this world. This was in my previous post. Not sure if it has those 4 scriptures about Jesus calling satan the “ruler of the world” or not:
Quote Even though the Bible says: “The earth belongs to Jehovah,” it also says: “Earth itself has been given into the hand of the wicked one.” (Ex 9:29; Job 9:24) The apostle John stated something similar saying: “We originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.”–1 John 5:19
Shortly after his baptism, Jesus was “tempted by the Devil.” Citing one of the temptations, the Bible says: “The Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.” (Matthew 4:1,8) Satan then told Jesus: “I will give you all this authority and the glory of them, because it has been delivered to me, and to whomever I wish I give it. You, therefore, if you do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours.””–Luke 4:6,7
Satan “tempted” Jesus by offering him “all the kingdoms of the world.” Yet, would Satan’s offer have been a real temptation if Satan was not actually the ruler of these kingdoms? And note, Jesus di d not deny tat all these wordly governments were Satan’s, which he would have done if Satan did not have power over them.–Matthew 4:1,8-10
In fact, on another occasion Jesus confirmed that Satan truly is the ruler of the kingdoms of this world. He said: “the ruler of this world will be cast out.” And he added: “the ruler of the world is coming. And he has no hold on me.” And, “the ruler of this world has been judged.”–John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11
Satan is not alone in his rulership. “Stand firm against the machinations of the Devil; because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.”–Ephesians 6:11,12
So from these scriptures, it is clear that someone has been controlling both men and nations. And the Bible clearly identifies him when it speaks of: “The one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth”–Revelation 12:9 (Also see Rev. 13:2 where Satan is depicted as a dragon that gives to the world’s political system “it’s power and its throne and great authority.”)
The Bible even calls Satan “the god of this system of things”In fact, on another occasion Jesus confirmed that Satan truly is the ruler of the kingdoms of this world. He said: “the ruler of this world will be cast out.” And he added: “the ruler of the world is coming. And he has no hold on me.” And, “the ruler of this world has been judged.”–John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11
I'm going to sleep. Bye.
Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. THEIR CHILDREN ALSO SHALL BE DASHED TO PIECES BEFORE THEIR EYES; their houses shall be spoiled, AND THEIR WIVES RAPED.” Isaiah 13:15-16. (Here Jehovah not only commands the murder of children, but also commands the rape of women! Is this the behavior of a God of Love? Or is this clearly the behavior of Satan?)
“Jehovah is a Man of War, Jehovah is his name.” (Exodus 15:3) Contrast “Jehovah is a Man of War” with the words of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount: “Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God.” (Matthew 5:9)
“I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create evil. I the LORD (Jehovah) do all these things.”
I just want to:
“To OPEN THEIR EYES, and to turn them from DARKNESS to LIGHT, and from the power of SATAN unto GOD.”
Jehovah, the Old Testament maniac upon whom so many Catholics, Christians and Jews and by proxy Muslims base their whole lives, is clearly Satan.
This principality is not The God of Love.
Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 08 2008,17:23) So who did Jesus put to shame? Which principalities and powers (of the Law I might add) did he put to shame. Col. 2
16Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18Let no one(AQ) disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels
WORSHIP OF ANGELS associated with LAW followers.
14by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him
looks to me like he put the angel who gave the Law to shame.
Who is the God of this world? Jehovah. What sways goverment and starts war the spirit of Jehovah. The earth does belong to Jehovah he IS the God of this world.
Who is the big satan (lying spirit) in charge of the little satans (lying spirit)?
Jehovah in the OT sends lying spirits, deceives prophets, hardens hearts and creates evil.
Jehovah is the liar from the beginning. Read genesis again and see who actually lied. Seriously!
Deuteronomy 32:8-9 has Jehovah as a “watcher” over Israel and El Elyon (Most High) the True God.
This is found in the septuagint and the Dead Sea scrolls.
In masoretic tradition the verse was changed. It was also changed in verse 43.
Yet the author of hebrews quotes vs. 43 as it is found in the septuagint.
Hi SOL.Didn't have time to actually comment on this.
Quote 14by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him looks to me like he put the angel who gave the Law to shame.
i HAVE not a clue why you would say this.
“Stripping the governments and the authorities bare, [God] exhibited them in open public as conquered, leading them in a triumphal procession by means of it.”
Here enemy governments and authorities under Satan the Devil are depicted as captives and prisoners in a triumphal procession. Jehovah the Conqueror strips them naked and exhibits them publicly as defeated ones. They are conquered “by means of it,” that is, Jesus’ “torture stake.” His death on the stake provided the basis for removing “the handwritten document” (the Law covenant) and made it possible for Christians to be freed from bondage to satanic powers of darkness. (Colossians 2:13, 14)Next:
Quote Who is the God of this world? Jehovah. What sways goverment and starts war the spirit of Jehovah. The earth does belong to Jehovah he IS the God of this world. A common belief, but simply wrong, according to the Bible. Several times Jesus explicitely said that the ruler of the world was coming and had no hold on him; that the ruler of the world would be judged, etc.
And when Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, the Bible says satan was “tempting” Jesus. What temptation would it have been if these were not truly Satan's to offer? None. Satan is even described as the “god of this world.”
Look around.
Yes, “the earth belongs to Jehovah” as you say. But also true, the earth has been given into the hand of the wicked one, as scripture says. “The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one,” the Bible says.
Again, look around.Quote Who is the big satan (lying spirit) in charge of the little satans (lying spirit)? Jehovah in the OT sends lying spirits, deceives prophets, hardens hearts and creates evil.
I think something is lost in the tranlsation here, just as we misunderstood the world “jealousy,” we are misunderstanding the word “evil” and using our own understanding of how that word is usually used.
Quote Jehovah is the liar from the beginning. Read genesis again and see who actually lied. Seriously! Jehovah said if they ate from the tree, they would die, in that day. If one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day, then adam did die in that day. But I think it was talking about him being spiritually dead. He was cut off from Jehovah and as good as dead.
Quote Jehovah is the liar from the beginning. Read genesis again and see who actually lied. Seriously! Deuteronomy 32:8-9 has Jehovah as a “watcher” over Israel and El Elyon (Most High) the True God.
This is found in the septuagint and the Dead Sea scrolls.
In masoretic tradition the verse was changed. It was also changed in verse 43.
Yet the author of hebrews quotes vs. 43 as it is found in the septuagint.
Ok, not sure what you're saying here. We know the words “most high” are used in reference to “Jehovah” many times. We know the word “almighty” is used in reference to him some 40 times, and him alone.
Quote “Jehovah is a Man of War, Jehovah is his name.” (Exodus 15:3) Contrast “Jehovah is a Man of War” with the words of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount: “Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God.” (Matthew 5:9) I think you have to realize that you are not God. Nor are you the judge of mankind.
If you decide someone isn't fit to live and cut off their life, this is wrong.
If Jehovah (who is God of justice) does it, then it is what is best for everyone.Jehovah is spoken of as waring, mostly in the final battle against evil. They have to be done away with. If left untouched, then God's promises will go unfullfilled and there will be no peace for anyone.
Quote “I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create evil. I the LORD (Jehovah) do all these things.”
Rightly, Jehovah brought evil or calamity upon Adam for his disobedience. Hence, in the Scriptures, Jehovah is referred to as the Creator of evil or calamity. (Isa 45:7; compare KJ.) His enforcing of the penalty for sin, namely, death, has proved to be an evil, or a calamity, for mankind. So, then, evil is not always synonymous with wrongdoing. Examples of evils or calamities created by Jehovah are the Flood of Noah’s day and the Ten Plagues visited upon Egypt. But these evils were not wrongs. Rather, the rightful administration of justice against wrongdoers was involved in both cases. However, at times Jehovah, in his mercy, has refrained from bringing the intended calamity or evil in execution of his righteous judgment because of the repentance on the part of those concerned. (Jon 3:10) Additionally, in having a warning given, Jehovah has undeservedly provided opportunities for the practicers of bad to change their course and thus to keep living.—Eze 33:11.Quote This principality is not The God of Love.
You have to balance love with his other attributes…justice for example. Is it just for the righteous to suffer at the hands of the wicked for all time? This is neither god's will, nor is it fair for the blameless. It is “love” on God's part towards his servants that he acts as a man of war when it is absolutely necessary.YHWH IS OUR ELOHIM YHWH=LORD (KJV) or the “LORD our GOD”
Y'shua is the Messiah Y'shua= Master= Lord (KJV) or “our Lord and Master”
YHWH gave us to Y'shua MessiahYHWH is the Father of all of creation but He did all through His Son who was ordained before all of creation, by His Set-apart Spirit, which makes them one.
Messiah is rendered as Christ (KJV)which generically means anointed, BUT Messiah means more specifically the anointed of YHWH.
Quote (Laurel @ Jan. 17 2008,19:05) YHWH IS OUR ELOHIM YHWH=LORD (KJV) or the “LORD our GOD”
Y'shua is the Messiah Y'shua= Master= Lord (KJV) or “our Lord and Master”
YHWH gave us to Y'shua MessiahYHWH is the Father of all of creation but He did all through His Son who was ordained before all of creation, by His Set-apart Spirit, which makes them one.
Hi Laurel,
The Son was not anointed with the Spirit of God till the Jordan.
He humbled himself to come, making him one in will with God.
Form the Jordan they were also one in Spirit.Quote (david @ Jan. 11 2008,13:55) Quote “Jehovah is a Man of War, Jehovah is his name.” (Exodus 15:3) Contrast “Jehovah is a Man of War” with the words of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount: “Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God.” (Matthew 5:9) I think you have to realize that you are not God. Nor are you the judge of mankind.
If you decide someone isn't fit to live and cut off their life, this is wrong.
If Jehovah (who is God of justice) does it, then it is what is best for everyone.Jehovah is spoken of as waring, mostly in the final battle against evil. They have to be done away with. If left untouched, then God's promises will go unfullfilled and there will be no peace for anyone.
Quote “I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create evil. I the LORD (Jehovah) do all these things.”
Rightly, Jehovah brought evil or calamity upon Adam for his disobedience. Hence, in the Scriptures, Jehovah is referred to as the Creator of evil or calamity. (Isa 45:7; compare KJ.) His enforcing of the penalty for sin, namely, death, has proved to be an evil, or a calamity, for mankind. So, then, evil is not always synonymous with wrongdoing. Examples of evils or calamities created by Jehovah are the Flood of Noah’s day and the Ten Plagues visited upon Egypt. But these evils were not wrongs. Rather, the rightful administration of justice against wrongdoers was involved in both cases. However, at times Jehovah, in his mercy, has refrained from bringing the intended calamity or evil in execution of his righteous judgment because of the repentance on the part of those concerned. (Jon 3:10) Additionally, in having a warning given, Jehovah has undeservedly provided opportunities for the practicers of bad to change their course and thus to keep living.—Eze 33:11.Quote This principality is not The God of Love.
You have to balance love with his other attributes…justice for example. Is it just for the righteous to suffer at the hands of the wicked for all time? This is neither god's will, nor is it fair for the blameless. It is “love” on God's part towards his servants that he acts as a man of war when it is absolutely necessary.
I think you should really consider for a moment the following:Jesus was a nazarene essene and thought the Old Testament was corrupt just like all other essenes. This is the way it is.
Seriously, search the evidence of Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls. Jesus was not of the same sect of Essenes at Qumran but he was from a simular sect. The essenes are the ones who believed in the BOOK OF ENOCH. Guess what Jude quotes in vs. 14. This is just one small example.
http://www.essene.org/Essenes_of_Mount_Carmel.htm
Research this and then consider what the documentary hypothesis is telling in conjunction with essene beliefs.
Also,
Paul was a scismatic.
The greco/romans church fathers created Christianity without any real apostolic succession.
Peter, James and John were the real followers of Jesus. These Christians were called Nazarenes and Ebionites and they claimed to know (gnosis) THE WAY.
They were not re-judaizers.
In fact they had their own interpretation of the Law as they did not believe the Torah's Laws. They did not believe in blood sacrifice for remissions of sin.
An example of their view of the Law was Jesus teachings. For example the sermon on the mount. He was correcting the erros of Torah, not inventing new ones.
They believed wicked angels and men corrupted the true faith and Jesus was setting the record straight by showing THE WAY.
Jesus was a peaceful nazarene essene Messiah not a pharisee war messiah.
Hi SOL,
So you would divide the Spirit of God?
You would make Christ oppose the Prophets and the apostles oppose him?
You are now officially in fantasy land.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 17 2008,20:04) Hi SOL,
So you would divide the Spirit of God?
You would make Christ oppose the Prophets and the apostles oppose him?
You are now officially in fantasy land.
To quote Jesus:“You don't realize what spirit you are from.”
Christ did not oppose the prophets. He apposed the lying pen of the scribes. He warned of their leaven.
Christ did not appose his TWELVE apostles.
It's not my world Nick, I am just passing through.
Hi SOL,
Really?
Mark 8:15
And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.
Matthew 16:12
Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Scribes?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 17 2008,20:30) Hi SOL,
Really?
Mark 8:15
And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.
Matthew 16:12
Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Scribes?
Yes he warned them about the pharisees and saducees.He was essene.
John 3:16
God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 1:12
As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name.
Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 17 2008,20:47) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 17 2008,20:30) Hi SOL,
Really?
Mark 8:15
And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.
Matthew 16:12
Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Scribes?
Yes he warned them about the pharisees and saducees.He was essene.
Hi SOL,
You are so dependant on conjecture for your faith.
Better to stay within what is written.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 17 2008,19:19) Quote (Laurel @ Jan. 17 2008,19:05) YHWH IS OUR ELOHIM YHWH=LORD (KJV) or the “LORD our GOD”
Y'shua is the Messiah Y'shua= Master= Lord (KJV) or “our Lord and Master”
YHWH gave us to Y'shua MessiahYHWH is the Father of all of creation but He did all through His Son who was ordained before all of creation, by His Set-apart Spirit, which makes them one.
Hi Laurel,
The Son was not anointed with the Spirit of God till the Jordan.
He humbled himself to come, making him one in will with God.
Form the Jordan they were also one in Spirit.
Nick,
To clarify “your” confusion.YHWH or LORD in the KJV is the all know creator of all.
Because YHWH's will, will be done, HE can say that Y'shua His Son was there in the beginning.
Simply, because all things HE says would be done, will be done, the are done, even before we simple minded humans can comprehend that.
HIS people were a part of HIM before HE made anything.
We humans do have our own will. We are free to choose HIM or not. Our Creator is the only one who knows what choices we will make before we make them.
If you can't see that Y'shua is part of Elohim (God) then you are spiritualy blind. Laurel is also a part of Elohim. This does not mean that Laurel is YHWH the One. This means that I laurel am a part of HIM, through my belief that Y'shua is HIS Son, who is the Mediator between the sinner and the Father. His (Y'shua's) blood was shed for the sins of all mankind.
Y'shua never claimed to be His Father. His claim was that He was the Son of His Father, and that is why men killed Him. He was only speaking the truth, as Laurel does.
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