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Hi Nick
Quote When God said “let us make man in our image ” God was not alone of course. God had begotten a Son in whom was life and through whom life was given to the other sons of God who were also with God before the creation of the visible universe. When you say the other sons of God who were also with God before the creation of the visible universe who exactly are you referring to – all of the sons of God? Angels?
Quote God gave life through the Son to man as breath and not His Spirit As breath – the spirit that He (God) breathed into the nostrils of man was the human spirit – which at this point had not yet fallen – as I understand it. That spirit had a conscience, the facility to reason, had emotions etc, with which they were able to operate free moral agency. This could be used to fellowship with their Father God and to move closer to him, by growing in knowledge and grace, or to move away from God and His Word and into separation from God.
Quote We are alike to God in being a living being with heart and mind but the similarity ends there. That is not the confession I hear coming from the lips of Jesus
HEBREWS 2:11
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,We are all of one with Jesus who is not ashamed to call us brethren, and who came from God and is the son of God, incidentally we are called sons of God also.
Hi Malcolm,
Personally I believe they are THE Son of God, and also the Archangels, the Princes, the Elders;
Job 38.4f
“Where were you whem I laid the foundation of the earth…
…or Who laid it's cornerstone. when the morning stars sang together
and the SONS OF GOD SHOUTED FOR JOY?”Speaking of man from the breath of God as created does not encompass who we are now. He could relate to God when God went to him but not outside of that ability[Gen 3.8]. He was alone and thus was given a helpmate from his own flesh.
Reborn man of the Spirit of God, however, has been transformed by the renewing of his heart and mind, and has the mind of Christ. They are one with The Son and his brothers. In the Spirit he can have access to the Father. He will also have a heavenly body when he is raised. He is never alone.Hi Nick
Quote Personally I believe they are THE Son of God, and also the Archangels, the Princes, the Elders;
Job 38.4f
“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth…
…or Who laid it's cornerstone. when the morning stars sang together
and the SONS OF GOD SHOUTED FOR JOY?”When you say the Princes, the Elders – do you mean the Archangels are Princes and Elders?
Or are you speaking of 3 groups: Archangels, Princes, Elders?
We are told in the bible that we are to be Kings and Priests with our elder brother Jesus.
He is the Great Prince so we shall be princes with him?
We are also to be judges over men and angels.
The Elders would sit at the gates to the city where they judged matters of the people.Quote Speaking of man from the breath of God as created does not encompass who we are now. He could relate to God when God went to him but not outside of that ability [Gen 3.8]. He was alone and thus was given a helpmate from his own flesh.
Reborn man of the Spirit of God, however, has been transformed by the renewing of his heart and mind, and has the mind of Christ. They are one with The Son and his brothers. In the Spirit he can have access to the Father. He will also have a heavenly body when he is raised. He is never alone.A son separated from his maker still has a seed of potential, something from which a son can come forth.
God doesn't just place His spirit upon a creature that is in no way like Him.
The real son of God in us lays dormant until the light strikes it, I believe.
When God's Word strikes the heart of a man there has to be something there to quicken if a rebirth is to occur.
There are numerous cases of men's hearts being pricked (cut to the heart) by the preaching of the Word.
But the reaction was not always repentance. Sometimes it generated rage and indignation in the hearers.Personally I believe it is the soul that God begins with, which is the seed of potential for a son of God.
From here the work of salvation works outwardly. We are sealed in the soul and the work begins on the renewal of our minds.
The last stage being the body. I believe God does a complete work of redemption in man – body, soul and spirit.
The whole creation groaning and travailing in pain to this end, that the sons of God might be manifest on earth.
The earth itself being redeemed for them to dwell upon it.I believe that it lays within man to worship something.
There is a deep longing in the soul of mankind which can only be satisfied by the infilling of the spirit of God.
We may try to fill that void with many things.
Some even are fooled into believing their souls are saved and rest in the delusion of manmade means of salvation.
But the chosen of God are not satisfied until they get the real thing.In the book of Revelation it says the angels cannot learn the song of the redeemed, they know nothing of salvation having never been lost.
They only know how to worship God continuously day and night.
So the relationship man has with his creator is on a deeper level than that He has with these wondrous heavenly beings.Hi Malcolm,
I cannot see the sons of God, the princes or any talk of archangels in Revelation. These important beings are very conspicuous by their absence. Then there are these mysterious 24 elders which some teach are men. Are they? Or are they the missing archangels?Hi Malcolm,
“The real son of God lies dormant in us”?
I guess we were always designed as vessels for the Spirit of God as it was always His plan to let us share the kingdom with His friends.
Some respond eagerly and others with rage I agree. It depends whether the kingdom of darkness truly already rules us and we love that darkness or not, I believe. Repentance is repentance of that kingdom and it's prince. We must choose when faced with the power of the gospel. We can fight with the antichrist spirit, or against it, and with, or against, the one who knocks at our door. If we respond and obey we are taken out of the kingdom of darkness and into the kingdom of light.This is reposted from another discussion but is best suited to this discussion. It was in response to another person saying that Jesus is YHWH. Perhaps we should revisit this idea?
The post from the other member and mine are quoted below:
Quote Hey t8,
I asked you who Psa 102:25 referred to and you wrote Jehov@h. Which is true, it clearly is. According to the writer of Hebrews this verse was actually uttered TO the Son BY the Father (vs 6).Do you agree it was?
Quote
I looked it up and 'O my God' is translated as 'el' not Yahweh. Just pointing that out, I am not saying that isn't talking about Yahweh though. I would like to move this discussion to a new one or an already existing one that is appropriate for this subject.Psalm 102
24 So I said:
“Do not take me away, O my God, in the midst of my days;
your years go on through all generations.25 In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.26 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
Like clothing you will change them
and they will be discarded.27 But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2006,07:30) Hi Malcolm,
I cannot see the sons of God, the princes or any talk of archangels in Revelation. These important beings are very conspicuous by their absence. Then there are these mysterious 24 elders which some teach are men. Are they? Or are they the missing archangels?
Who can say? The number at first appear to add up to the 12 tribes and 12 apostles, but then one has to wonder about Adam, Seth, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob among others… Besides, the 12X12 come about in the 144,000 as well as (12+12) in the foundations, gates and possibly other details of the new Jerusalem which comes down out of heaven.Hi cubes,
Yes and why would 24 men have any greater heavenly privileges than the others in Christ?
And would they not include John himself?Hi ,
Just because the Father and the Son are one
Does not mean we should think they are one and the same.Hi,
It amazes me how many confuse God with His Son and even the Angel of the Lord as if we have the right to ignore the obvious and proclaim the obscure.YHWH is Yahweh the Father, Yah'-shua is His Son. In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with Yahweh, and the WORD was Yahweh, the same was in the beginning with Yahweh( the Father), and all things were created through Him–Yahweh the Son…..
And the WORD( Yahweh the Son) was made flesh and dwelt among us( the desciples). Yn.John 1:1-14. The Father and Son have the same Family Name of Yahweh and the same substance in nature, however, they are ONE in purpose and agreement and the Son Yahweh is in subordination to the Father Yahweh much like man and wife become ONE though they are 2 distinct persons, much in the same way as Hassan the Father sent Hassan the Son to do the creating, but both are 2 distinct separate persons.
The name -Jesus – is a mistranslation as the K.J.V. translators used it for instead of the name-Joshua- in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8. Go figure for the false name- jeseus- instead of Joshua=Yah'shua correct transliteration of Joshua to English.Jamie
Hi and welcome jamie
You say
“YHWH is Yahweh the Father, Yah'-shua is His Son. In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with Yahweh, and the WORD was Yahweh, the same was in the beginning with Yahweh( the Father), and all things were created through Him–Yahweh the Son…..And the WORD( Yahweh the Son)”
Why do you give the son two names?
I'm not giving the Son 2 names, the Name – Yah-shua- means Yahweh savior, and both the Father and the Son have the same 3 Hebrew letters of Yod-He-Waw meaning – YAHU- for short as is written in Psalms 68:4 as – Yah- for there were no English letter -J- untill about 500 years ago, so they corrected this in the New K.J.V. to the correct -Y- instead of the -J-.
Jamie
Because The son Was a part of the father, he came from the father uniquely unlike any other son.
God gave his son his name.
John 17
11I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.Hi MS,
The Word was WITH God, not a part of God.
Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God, not that Father God.
He came and worked in the name and authority of God, just as we can work in the name of Jesus.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2007,17:47) Hi MS,
The Word was WITH God, not a part of God.
Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God, not that Father God.
He came and worked in the name and authority of God, just as we can work in the name of Jesus.
To put it bluntly though I am sure a better spoken man could phrase this more respectfully. Please know that I only use this example for clarity.Just as you were part of your mother and then were birthed and became her son a seperate being. So to was the begetting of Christ, though not in a human birthing.
Jesus has the nature of the father, has the name of the father but is his son.
After this the son was with the father and did all the things described in proverbs 8 and 9.
Hi MS,
I was not part of my mother. Part of me and you came from our mothers genes. Then we existed as a separate being within our mothers till birth by God's plan. The Son has the nature of God given to him at the Jordan but prior to that his own nature only with his own name.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2007,18:38) Hi MS,
I was not part of my mother. Part of me and you came from our mothers genes. Then we existed as a separate being within our mothers till birth by God's plan. The Son has the nature of God given to him at the Jordan but prior to that his own nature only with his own name.
actually you were part of your mother as she generated an egg. Science.Hi MS,
Scripture does speak of men in the loins of their fathers but no in the ovary of their mother. You and I are not beings till the full composition of genes occurs at conception.
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