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*yea… even to teach anyone else to disobey the least of the commandments.*
Should be corrected to “to NOT teach anyone else to disobey the least of the commandments!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2005,04:12) HiL,
E has put no one straight. I listen to his views too but do not hear the voice of the Spirit in them very much. I love the Word of God and the reflections of men have to be assimilated according to that truth.
Sometimes you must be cruel to be kind.If Jesus Christ was anyone else I have no business following that person. For what he did was to slander God's most precious laws and be our 'second Savior'. We deserve to burn in hell for following anyone other than God who does that! I assure you!
Hi L,
So you declare an image to be in fact the original?You can see why the Jews struggled with the visit of the Son of God and how, unless they were open to the teaching from the Spirit, they would reject him as another claiming to be God. He never made that claim, but God visited His people in his glorious vessel.
Surely you are not another stuck in the Jewish mindset too?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2005,04:42) Hi L,
So you declare an image to be in fact the original?You can see why the Jews struggled with the visit of the Son of God and how, unless they were open to the teaching from the Spirit, they would reject him as another claiming to be God. He never made that claim, but God visited His people in his glorious vessel.
Surely you are not another stuck in the Jewish mindset too?
They were pissed off because here comes this 'someone else' who goes around changing how God's law operates! Under what authority did this 'someone else' do this? For this the Jews were blind to the fact this was indeed God amoung them and they sought to kill this man who was someone else. But for the Jews who converted to Christian they opened their minds and their hearts to this possability. For if they were to follow 'another' than God they would be making the biggest mistake of their lives and their eternal future depended on this. We have what God's Word said in the Old Testiment. Why would it now all backfire on God? Why would it go against the grain? Suddenly its not about God anymore but about following a 'someone else' who could do no wrong yet was the biggest hyprocrip in the history of Earth. That is a grounds for the Anti-Christ because he sure has every single Christian fooled if Jesus Christ is anyone other than God.One must remember the Jews think of Jesus as a prophet but def. not God. Even today they still hold that – They are still waiting for the Messiah even! In what way am I stuck in the Jewish mindset? The Jewish mindset would tell me that Jesus is not the Messiah nor God – Just some small prophet who was not that terrably important.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2005,04:42) Hi L,
So you declare an image to be in fact the original?You can see why the Jews struggled with the visit of the Son of God and how, unless they were open to the teaching from the Spirit, they would reject him as another claiming to be God. He never made that claim, but God visited His people in his glorious vessel.
Surely you are not another stuck in the Jewish mindset too?
I used that as an example of an argument I can use since they say that no man has seen God at any time. Yet when I threw up the verse that the elders of Isreal have seen God you go to say that its a manifestation. Therefor I can also say that Jesus is a manifestation in the way he appeared unto men and hiding from us his true glory. That is the glory of God which he held secret least men see God in all of his glory.So you see your thinking has a flaw if you think in those terms.
Hi W,
So Jesus was just kidding when he said he is the Son of God? Was it all a smokescreen for who he really was? But that calls him a liar.But this is not the issue at hand. The real issue at hand is why did these Jews abandon their religion?
Why did these Jews abandon YHWH to follow 'another' who added to God's law?
Why did these Jews abandon YHWH to follow 'another' who took away from God's law?
Why did these Jews abandon YHWH as their only savior to follow 'another'?
And yet today people are born into the Christian relgion never relizing that at one time in history a most important choice had to be made. That choice was to follow Jesus Christ and abandon the Jewish religion. There must have been, could have been, should have been a very very good reason for this. Do you not see it?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2005,04:55) Hi W,
So Jesus was just kidding when he said he is the Son of God? Was it all a smokescreen for who he really was? But that calls him a liar.
No one is denying that Jesus Christ is also the Son of God. Yet there is a compromise and this is only half of the solution. If we identify this Son of God as someone else… however impossable it is for us to think of it we loose something else. In essense we are all sons of God. But we are still seperate from God and if Jesus Christ is as well it would make him no different. Jesus Christ alone went around to claim that which only the father could do. They say that with God all things are possable. It is very easy to fall into the trap to believe that Jesus Christ and God are seperate…The question is How can Jesus Christ the Son of God also be God? But we have to look at all of the Word and not just half of it.
I AM that I AM, thus you shall say to the people that I AM has sent me to you! This was what God said to Moses. And what did Jesus Christ say?
Before Abraham was, I AM!
Surely Abraham was before Moses right? But why in the world does Jesus use the present tense to refer to the day he was alive and he exclaimed this to the Jews? If the Word WAS God what exactly was lost when the Word became flesh and dwelt amoung us? In a sense the Word became something else when it came down from Heaven. From God to something else. That would mean God lost some of his glory, power, thunder, whatever you wanna call it! Why then would not God have said something to the effect of I WAS and not I AM?
This is what we find to be truth.
Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Jesus Christ is also in the position to do that which is only reserved for God alone.Confused? It is easy to understand
Son of God/GodIt is a mystery to understand
Son of God = GodGod told us he would not reveal all to us. For us such thinking is impossable to actually show how in printout of how it works exactly. Yet we must believe somehow it does work and that he knows exactly how it works or it would not be this way.
So how exactly can you say that WhiteMateria? What we percieve is limited to what we can see and the way we think. I shall use a model which is not the thing itself yet it will give us some insight. It will show that we can see everything there is to see from our perspective and yet not have the full answer. This is for demonstration purposes only and not set in with Bible verses and reasoning. It is purely scientific!
No doubt you have heard of the story of Flatland and Sphereland. To make a long story short a sphere living in the 3rd dimension tries to explain to a square living in the 2nd dimension all about a 3D world. The sphere tries to explain several things…
1. He can be just mere inches away from the square and observe him without being seen.
2. He can remove objects from a safe (another square) that is closed on all sides making them reappear outside the safe. What the square believes is that the sphere used teleportation but the sphere simply took the object out of the plane and back on it somewhere else.
3. The sphere passes his body through the plane to try to show how he has depth. At first the 'line' that the square sees gets bigger and bigger and then it gets smaller and smaller.It was not until the sphere pulls the square out of the plane that the square understands. Finally the square looks down where he onced lived and could even see the real shape and insides of his friends.
So as far as the trinity is explained comes a few things…
The true shape of man's image (who was created in the image of God) could be to us like the line the square saw. But to God its the shape of a square and everything inside it. Even the length and width of it. This would contribute to God being able to measure what is inside a man's heart.
God trying to explain to us what he is like through his Word but since we are not pulled out of our own world we are like that square. Unable to fully comprehend.
God tries to explain to us his depth by showing us phases of himself. Father, Son, Holy Spirit – As the square passed through sphereland the circle got bigger then smaller. Yet the circles retained the properties of circles and to some degree an idea of how the sphere is shaped. We might argue that each circle was a 'different' circle simply because one is bigger and another is smaller. But the sphere assures the square its all part of the same. In the same way Jesus and the Holy Spirit have many of the same qualities of God. Yet in some religions it is argued they cannot be the same simply because one is more important than the other like a bigger circle might mean more than a smaller one in flatland. Yet in order to have a sphere all the circles are required – Thus perhaps God's existance requires the different 'personalities' brought forth.
So sphere became circle in our likeness and image. But since the sphere already HAS knowledge of the 3D world its very easy for him to understand what lies in store for us. We as the flat 2D squares have not been to the 3D world. We must rely on the various weird occurances that happen to believe or not believe in higher power. Such as when the sphere took that object out of the box and made it appear elsewhere as if like magic. The Christian concept of this is miracles. Occurances we cannot explain (even though we try to) but cannot fully within our own science. That being the science of 2D thinking not knowing the properties of a 3D world.
10cm x 10cm = 100cm squared
Since depth does not exist in flatland we are missing a critical measured distance to complete such calculations in even trying to explain 3D.
10cm x 10cm x (10cm) = 1000cm cubed
() denotes the missing measurement needed.The same with miracles in that we are missing a critical law, measure, or 'something' that could make it perfectly possable within God's world.
Quote (WhiteMateria @ July 11 2005,04:56) But this is not the issue at hand. The real issue at hand is why did these Jews abandon their religion? Why did these Jews abandon YHWH to follow 'another' who added to God's law?
Why did these Jews abandon YHWH to follow 'another' who took away from God's law?
Why did these Jews abandon YHWH as their only savior to follow 'another'?
And yet today people are born into the Christian relgion never relizing that at one time in history a most important choice had to be made. That choice was to follow Jesus Christ and abandon the Jewish religion. There must have been, could have been, should have been a very very good reason for this. Do you not see it?
Hi,
Yes they. like us, had to decide to follow Jesus who is the only way to the Father. Jesus fulfilled their Law and became the eternal High Priest tearing the veil of his flesh and allowing Jews and Gentiles to approach God, his Father.Quote (WhiteMateria @ July 11 2005,05:05) Why then would not (Jesus) have said something to the effect of I WAS and not I AM?
He spoke the truth
” before Abraham was I am”Just as John said who was born before him.
” he was before me”
He was in the beginning with God.What if the Bible reveals to us all we can percieve in this World? We would have to have faith that what all of the Word says is true even if it does not make complete sense. Can one make out a blueprint of how God created man out of dust? No not really… And what exactly are the elements that make up the breath of life? No one can really say. How much mystery then is behind God and his divine nature? As much as God had ample means to leave out of his Word.
Quote (WhiteMateria @ July 11 2005,05:08) This is what we find to be truth. Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Jesus Christ is also in the position to do that which is only reserved for God alone.Confused? It is easy to understand
Son of God/GodIt is a mystery to understand
Son of God = GodGod told us he would not reveal all to us. For us such thinking is impossable to actually show how in printout of how it works exactly. Yet we must believe somehow it does work and that he knows exactly how it works or it would not be this way.
Hi ,
Less of a mystery when you realise he was a vessel for His Father coming to earth as Saviour.
” If you have seen me you have seen the Father”
“I am in the Father and the Father is in me”Quote (WhiteMateria @ July 11 2005,05:16) What if the Bible reveals to us all we can percieve in this World? We would have to have faith that what all of the Word says is true even if it does not make complete sense. Can one make out a blueprint of how God created man out of dust? No not really… And what exactly are the elements that make up the breath of life? No one can really say. How much mystery then is behind God and his divine nature? As much as God had ample means to leave out of his Word.
Hi W,
We do not have all knowledge. We could not contain it all. But God has given all sufficient evidence of His presence and power in His creation and in His Word and the works of His servants.
No more excuses are justifiable in His view.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2005,05:14) Quote (WhiteMateria @ July 11 2005,05:05) Why then would not (Jesus) have said something to the effect of I WAS and not I AM?
He spoke the truth
” before Abraham was I am”Just as John said who was born before him.
” he was before me”
He was in the beginning with God.
And then Thomas figured it out…
“My Lord and My God”“No Thomas – There are those who say that I am not God therefore what you say is a lie!”
OR
“Because you have seen you have believed! Blessed are those who have not seen and believe.”Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2005,05:19) Quote (WhiteMateria @ July 11 2005,05:16) What if the Bible reveals to us all we can percieve in this World? We would have to have faith that what all of the Word says is true even if it does not make complete sense. Can one make out a blueprint of how God created man out of dust? No not really… And what exactly are the elements that make up the breath of life? No one can really say. How much mystery then is behind God and his divine nature? As much as God had ample means to leave out of his Word.
Hi W,
We do not have all knowledge. We could not contain it all. But God has given all sufficient evidence of His presence and power in His creation and in His Word and the works of His servants.
No more excuses are justifiable in His view.
Indeed Jesus Christ gave us ample evidence to show that he alone could do what was reserved for God. There is example after example after example of this. Do not be so blind to this!
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