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Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2008,08:57) Hi not3,
What do you not understand about the Word becoming flesh?
Who said I didn't understand?I personally think you made that last statement to be sarcastic and now you are back-peddling. If you follow our dialog, I never said I didn't understand the passage in John.
I do not deny the truth of the scriptures, Nick.
But once again, I do deny your interpretation of them.
If jesus did not “pre exist”
THen when God said, “let us make man in our image” who was he talking to? from a non trinitarian perspective of course
Or what about these scriptures:
Prov 8:1-32…Wisdom personified..also referencing Jesus
The bible also says, “no one ascended to heaven except he who descended”
Christ “beginning” at birth is relative to his earthly life….At his Baptism at the jordan, “the heavens were opened up to him”…which clearly shows (to me) that he obtained knowledge of his prior existence in heaven and any memorys associated with that existence…
In Luke 2:49 a 12 year old Yeshua told His parents that He had to be in His “Father's House”. The language here suggests to me He had knowledge then too.
Hi Is 1.18,
God was indeed with him as his earthly father and clearly he was aware of this parenting.Isa 1:18
Is it not reasonable to believe that His parents would have “trained him up in the way in which he should go”
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 02 2008,16:06) THen when God said, “let us make man in our image” who was he talking to? from a non trinitarian perspective of course
Hey DK,Check your NIV Study Bible under the notes for just one idea on this passage. There are many ideas. It doesn't necessarily mean he was having a chat with Jesus.
There is no doubt in my mind…that Jesus learned about who he was..and who was to become from his Parents…AKA They were good Christian Parents
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 02 2008,16:11) the heavens were opened up to him”…which clearly shows (to me) that he obtained knowledge of his prior existence in heaven and any memorys associated with that existence…
Wow. That is clear to you? Amazing, considering that is nowhere taught in scripture.Do you think those present, including John himself, thought that Jesus received information about his prior life? If so, why did John later question if Jesus was really the One?
Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 02 2008,16:16) In Luke 2:49 a 12 year old Yeshua told His parents that He had to be in His “Father's House”. The language here suggests to me He had knowledge then too.
Knowledge of what?I think to some degree we are filling in the blanks according to our own peculiar dogmas.
I'm sure God told Jesus he was his Father. After all, every kid has the right to know who is father is. I'm sure Mary confirmed the whole virgin thing. But other than that, it is pure speculation that God filled Jesus in on the preexisting bit.
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 02 2008,16:51) Hey 3in1… Cool…i'll do that..
What about Proverbs 8…wisdom personified..referencing JEsus?
Wisdom is refered to as a women. Unless Jesus had transgender issues in the transporting/incarnation process?Did John Really question? Or was it a momentary lapse in faith?
The experiences Jesus felt during and after his baptism..would only be felt and experienced by him…
when the holy spirit works on you..although I may be present..I can not truly feel and experience what you are experiening….likewise John had no idea what Jesus felt or experienced…all John saw was a dove and he heard a voice…Jesus experienced way more..
If my understanding of the “heavens being opened up” verse is incorrect..what do you suggest that scripture is referrring to?
Hey Isa 1:18..
Yeah i have heard that claim before…about wisdom being a women
The New Testament authors present several lines of evidence that demonstrate Jesus to be the personified Wisdom of the Old Testament. The apostle Paul presented one of the more explicit statements to this effect, identifying Christ directly as “the Wisdom of God.”[3] (1Cor. 1:24) Christ is not a mere attribute of God, but we understand that the attribute of wisdom dwells within him. (Col. 2:3) It dwelling in him, he is naturally identified with it because he displays it so perfectly, personifying it.
Luke, in recording the words of Jesus, observed an interesting reference to Wisdom. Jesus stated: “And because of this, the wisdom of God said, I will send prophets and apostles to them, and they will kill and drive out some of them…” (Luk. 11:49) Jesus attributed the words quoted to “the Wisdom of God,” and yet in Matthew's parallel account the words are ascribed directly to Jesus. Jesus here is said to attribute these words to “the wisdom of God,” and yet when we view Matthew’s account at Matthew 23:43 the words are are attributed to Jesus directly
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