Who is this Jesus?

Participant

Bro Adam,

I jotted down your address and I will mail the book out to you on Monday.

You should ask t8, our webmaster, to delete your address from the site. Just so it won't be abused.

You can ask for “editing rights” in the HELP DESK of this forum.

Take care,
Mandy

May 17, 2008 at 9:47 am#89290

TimothyVI

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ May 17 2008,17:43)

Bro Adam,

I jotted down your address and I will mail the book out to you on Monday.

You should ask t8, our webmaster, to delete your address from the site. Just so it won't be abused.

You can ask for “editing rights” in the HELP DESK of this forum.

Take care,
Mandy

I agree Adam. You should delete that information quickly.
In the future you should use the private message to give that kind of information to someone.

There are all kinds of people lurking on the net that will somehow use personal information for their own gain.

Tim

May 18, 2008 at 5:27 am#89324

Participant

Thanks Mandy and Tim,
For guiding me to post personal information. I have already sent a request to T8 to enable me for editing rights. Hope he will help me.
With love
Adam

May 18, 2008 at 7:13 am#89332

Participant

Adam I do not agree with you on John 17:5 it is not just a thought or plan in God's mind,
john 1:1 shows us that the Word was with God and was God, and the Word became flesh. When you know that God is a title or better and a Family name it is so much better to understand. We are the Family of God, we are God's Children. God is all in all according to 1 Corinth. 15:28.
The Word was a Spirit being and that is the glory that He is referring to in John 17:5
Co., 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN OVER ALL CREATION.
VERSE16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are in earth, visible and invisible….. All things were CREATED THROUGH HIM AND FOR HIM
VERSE 17 And He is before all things and in Him all things consist.
Question How could He have created all if He was not there?

verse 18 THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT SCRIPTURE, IT SHOWS THAT JESUS WAS FIRST IN ALL. HE WAS THE FIRSTBORNA OF ALL CREATION AND THE FIRSTBORN OF THE DEAD, THAT IN ALL HE MAY HAVE PREEMINECE IN ALL. FIRST IN ALL. PLEASE LET THAT SINK IN DEEPLY. MANDY HAS NEVER UNDERSTOOD THAT. BUT T8 AND NICK AGREE AND OTHERS TOO. TO ME IT DOES NOT MATTER IF OTHERS DON'T AGREE, BUT TO OTHERS IT DOES, I BELIEVE.

One more scripture and that is Rev. 3:14 ” This says the Amen the Faithful and True Witness, OF the beginning of the CREATION OF GOD.”
All these scriptures go together to prove the preexisting of Jesus, before the world was.

Peace and Love Mrs.

May 19, 2008 at 7:16 am#89385

Participant

Hi Seek,
If the word was a spirit being then it must have been God also according to Jn1:1; You mean to say there were two Gods in the beginning? How about monotheism? That is where all the trinitarians mistaken and created a second person in the Godhead. In the beginning there was only one God in Genesis 1:1 not two or three. That one God created this universe through His spoken word. Please read Ps 33:6.
You can not separate God's word from Him as you can not separate your words from you because your words are none but you.
If Jesus was a spirit being what was he? was he an angel or God?. Pl. read Heb 2:14-18 (NASV). He did not have taken the nature of angels but the nature of the seed of Abraham. In all respects he was made like us not God or an angel.
In Col 1:15-19 , Paul was talking about Jesus's superiority over all created things not that he himself is the creator. All things were created dia(through) him not by him and on account of him. God the Father created everything keeping Jesus His son in mind and for him.
Please don't confuse using such verses only, see the over all concept of God of the Bible.
Peace to you.
Adam

May 19, 2008 at 8:33 am#89388

Participant

Adam please look in the preexsisting tread, I just put up a tread that t8 posted some time ago that I find explains it pretty good, and there are other post there too.
Peace and Love Irene

May 19, 2008 at 8:34 am#89389

Participant

Hi Mandy,
Hope you are still there in this forum. I know you care for brothers like me. The thoughts you have shared are wonderful even though they are collected.
Waiting for the book ” One God & One Lord”
with love
Adam

May 19, 2008 at 9:46 pm#89437

NickHassan

Participant

Hi,
How wonderful it is that our brother Jesus knows our problems and can mediate with God and intercede for us.
Those who want to make him our God deny these necessary benefits.

May 20, 2008 at 6:39 am#89480

Participant

Hi Nick,
Nice to see you again. Hope you will not make Jesus a spirit being or God prior to his birth. When you make Jesus a pre-existent being, he can not be our brother in any manner.
Peace to you.
Adam

May 20, 2008 at 8:23 am#89482

Participant

gollamdi By saying what you just did, you are limiting God, and that is not true. You are denying scriptures and putting a different meaning to it, and that is your interpretation of the word, and not the way it is written.
Col. 1:15 says that He created all. Period.
As far as John 1:1 is concerned I thought that I explained that before. Tell me something are there many Gods? Is Satan not called the God of this world. Did He not want to test Jesus, and wanted to give Him this world if Jesus would bow down and worshipped him.
God is a title the Father has a name and so does Jesus.
He was the Word of God, or the Spokes-word of God.
If you really want to know go to the preexisting tread, I think the post that t8 has made is good, and easy to understand.
Tell you the truth I have posted this so many times, that I am getting rather frustrated with it. So for my sanity this is it, I will not answer to you again, there is no sense in it.
Peace and Love Mrs.

May 23, 2008 at 7:57 am#89558

Participant

Hi Seek,
Tell me where I am limiting God ? God alone was the creator no one else. Please read Isa 44:6,24; 45:5-6,12,18.
One thing you have to understand, the doctrine of Trinity certainly influenced the translations of the Bible from the its original Tongues especially the New Testament. You have to understand those verses you quoted like Col 1:15 in the light of Old Testament. You can not interpret these verses as per our will and wish.
Yes there are so called gods in this world. That doesn't make Jesus the real God. Why you are so much confused about the word 'God'? When there is only One True God for us as Paul was mentioning in 1 Cor 8:6, where is the question of making another God even Jesus?
Don't be confused my sis.
Keep watching with broad mind
Peace to you.
Adam

May 23, 2008 at 5:17 pm#89568

Participant

Hi Adam! I do have an open mind. We came out of the Catholic Church were we believed in the trinity. From there to keeping the Sabbath and now believe that we are under the Blood of Christ and it is a free gift from God. So you see we came a long way. Therefore I believe whatever God is showing us is true. Just because the J.W. believe in a preexisting of Jesus, I am not going to deny the truth. It did take me some time to understand it, and I did what you are are doing right now. But God did not leave me in that believe.
You can't deny John 1:1 When you understand that God is a title, then you understand that God the Son who was born of the Father (Jehovah) the Almighty God, Jesus is and was second in power. He is our King and Savior, through Him and for Him all was created, that was in Heaven and that is in the earth. If He created all how could He create all, if it was only in the Fathers mind. No, the Father gave the Son that right to create, but by His power. Which is God's Holy Spirit. That is also the only way we are going to understand the things of God. And in the end the Son will give all back to the Father so God can be all in all.
The head of a Wife is Man, the head of us is Jesus, the head of Jesus is the Father. That is the way it is.
It is really ironic, before I came here this afternoon to see what was posted, I was meditating on the Word and was even thinking about all.
I am going to be 70 in July and I know time is running out for me, and I ask God to show me all, and I truly believe that is what He has done.
The biggest obstacle is about being under grace rather then keeping the Sabbath. My Husband is 100% sure, but I am not completely sure. So God is still working with me. Overcoming has always been a big undertaking in my Christian Life. Coming such along way. It is good to look back to see how you have grown.
Thanks to our Heavenly Father for all that He has bestoweth upon us. Both Spiritual and Physical. We wanted a new House we got it. We wanted a Business we got it, we wanted a Boat we got it, we wanted a ground-in-Pool we got it. Then we sold all and got a smaller Home, which we wanted.
In all I can see God's Hand in it.
I also believe that God did that to show us, that material things does not make you happy. The happyness that I was seeking, was only fulfilled when I reached out to Jesus and our Father for a personall relationship with them. That is were true happiness and Love is.
Peace and Love Mrs.
P.S. What I wrote just now was also inspired by God's Holy Spirit. Why I wrote what I did, only God knows why, I don't. It was of the subject, as you noticed.

May 23, 2008 at 11:47 pm#89595

942767

Participant

Quote (gollamudi @ May 19 2008,19:16)

Hi Brother:

Just want to say God Bless you and to say Amen to your post.

May 24, 2008 at 2:36 am#89601

Participant

Thanks brother 942767, for encouraging me. Do share your experiences also.

Hi seek, Thanks for nice post sharing your experience in the Lord. I am only 41 now. I really appreciate your interest at your age. May God continue to bless you and reveal His marvelous truths from His scriptures.
You say that God is a title, I agree with you as long as you believe there is only one God in this whole universe. Jesus is not God the Son as you have mentioned, he is the Son of God. There is big difference in both words. We can not make two Gods. If Jesus is the Son of God., we all will be sons and daughters of God and Jesus will be our elder brother in God's New creation. “He is the beginning of the creation of God” (Rev 3:14) means Jesus will be the first in God's new creation and we all will be created again (born again ) through resurrection in Jesus at his coming. That's why Paul says 2 Cori 5:17, “if any one in Christ, he is a new creation behold the old things have passed away”. This new creation will last forever. We all will be fellow heirs along with Jesus in God's family.
I hope you will understand this.
Again I warn you don't go into that trap called Trinity myth.
Peace to you.
Adam

May 29, 2008 at 2:31 pm#89989

dirtyknections

Participant

Here's my thoughts

Was Christ born before creation?
Was Christ Eternal?
Was Jesus Divine or Human? or Both?

“Born” before creation….well…he was the firstborn of all creation…meaning (to me) that before him (jesus) there was only GOD..and his being begotten means that he was the only thing created DIRECTLY by Gods hands…everything else God used Jesus to create…

Is Christ eternal?…I guess you have been reading Revelation…ahhh…that good ole' alpha and omega…lol..
Christ is eternal in the sense that…no.. he will never again be non-existent..unless chooses to pull a Satan…and desires and actively pursues, what rightly belongs to his father…something I don't think GOD would put up with, and could lead to his destruction….as it did satan..

Was Jesus divine or human or both? Jesus was a divine human who the attributes of someone divine…notice the definition and etymology of the word “divine”

etymology-divine (adj.)
c.1305 (implied in divinity), from O.Fr. devin, from L. divinus “of a god,” from divus “a god,” related to deus “god, deity” (see Zeus). Weakened sense of “excellent” had evolved by c.1470. Divinity is from c.1300.
divine (v.)
“to conjure, to guess,” originally “to make out by supernatural insight,” early 14c., from L. divinus (see divine (adj.)), which also meant “soothsayer.” Hence, divination (c.1374), from O.Fr., from L. divinationem (nom. divinatio) “the power of foreseeing, prediction,” from divinatus, pp. of divinare, lit. “to be inspired by a god.” Divining rod (or wand) attested from 1656.

notice the definition as given by merriam-webster:

divine- 1 a: of, relating to, or proceeding directly from God or a god b: being a deity c: directed to a deity
2 a: supremely good : superb b: heavenly, godlike

So yes…Jesus was divine and had divine atributes as a human

May 29, 2008 at 2:33 pm#89990

dirtyknections

Participant

But let me add…he was not supremely or completely divine, because as the bible says, “he took a lower form”

remember that form…”celestial body” which is of a “different sort” as Paul mentioned is also a part of his divinity

May 29, 2008 at 4:36 pm#89999

Participant

Seek said:

Quote

No, the Father gave the Son that right to create, but by His power. Which is God's Holy Spirit.

When Adam said you need to understand much of the NT via the OT, he was certainly correct!

Isaiah 48:13
My own hand laid the foundations of the earth,
and my right hand spread out the heavens;
when I summon them,
they all stand up together.

In light of this and many more passages, we are left to assume that God used his “own hand” to do the creating. How can we use this verse to help us interpret the NT passages where it says Jesus created? Well, we must realize there is another interpretation other than a literal one. If we do not, then we are calling these OT passages where God clearly states he was ALONE during creation – nothing but confusion.

Seek said:

Quote

I also believe that God did that to show us, that material things does not make you happy. The happyness that I was seeking, was only fulfilled when I reached out to Jesus and our Father for a personall relationship with them. That is were true happiness and Love is.

What a wonderful testimony, Irene! It sounds like you and Georg certainly have been blessed in this life. I've even been privy to see pic's of your dear family and they are beautiful (you are too).
Love,
Mandy

May 29, 2008 at 4:38 pm#90000

Participant

Quote (942767 @ May 24 2008,11:47)

Quote (gollamudi @ May 19 2008,19:16)

Hi Brother:

Just want to say God Bless you and to say Amen to your post.

I second that AMEN!

Mandy

May 29, 2008 at 4:42 pm#90001