Who is this Jesus?

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,00:47)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,00:12) Hi , Yes Satan is interesting. We know all things were created through the Son of God and Satan is included. He had fallen from grace by the time adam and Eve walked in the Garden as Revelation shows the serpent as Satan.  He never was greater than the Son as he was created through him. Sons of god were recorded as being involved with the evil of Genesis 6. Cherubs are seen in the vision of Ezekiel [eg10.7] as a manlike servant being quite different to Cherubim. I do not see Satan written as an Archangel, but he is written as a prince,”the prince of this world”, and Michael is called an archangel in Jude but a prince in Daniel. there is the connection for me. So are the sons of God of Jb1,2,38 and Gen 6 Archangels and Satan also? There are many princes in the Word of God, rulers, but they are not archangels. There is only one archangel, meaning the 'chief', of the angels, Michael.

Hi,
Dan 10.13
“…then behold Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me”
Dan 10.21
” ..Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael, your prince”

Who are the other chief princes? Gabriel etc?

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,00:45)

Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,00:14) Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,00:08) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,22:50) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,22:11) nick wrote: [quote=Guest,July 27 2005,21:31]quote] sir, Would Adam's seed be sons of God and sons of Adam, both, if Adam had not fallen? biblically speaking, that is? Hi, According to scripture we are still both in a way.There is no scripture since Acts 17 that says Adam's stock ceased to be sons of God is there? The parable of the prodigal son shows that as long as the son was not with the Father, he was dead. We are dead. we are not in the Father's house and He is not inour house. We are not with the Father and the Father is not with us. We are not the sons of God. Something is separating us from the Father. What is that separation? Why must we receive Jesus christ for Him to give us the power to be the sons of God? What is the life that He gives and what is the death that we are in? In John 1, He came- 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.- “And as many as receive Him gave He power to become the sons of God”, and 'become' is used in these ways in the scriptures; AV – be 255, come to pass 82, be made 69, be done 63, come 52, become 47… My point to you, sir, is: Adam was made a Son of God, created in the image and likeness of God. What made Adam, formed from the dust,  the son of God, as opposed to the animals, formed from the dust, who were made for Adam to rule over 'not' sons of God? Why aren’t the animals sons of God? What made Adam a son of God? Why are Adam’s offspring now 'not' sons of God and needing to receive Jesus Christ to have the power from Him to be the sons of God? What is that power that makes one born of Adam a son of God if they receive Jesus Christ? Why is that power missing from all Adam’s offspring? Why is the holy thing born from the womb of Mary a Son of God? What was in Him that made Him a Son of God, and why do no sons of Adam have that power in them? When did it depart from the first human son of God? How is it that there needs to be a second human son of God? If God can make human sons from rocks and clay, why did He use the womb of the virgin to make the last human Son? Hi , The Son of God was as the Word with God in the beginning. He is the image of God through whom all creation was made. He humbled himself and emptied himself and partook of flesh. He then was filled with the Spirit of God as a vessel for the Spirit of His Father. We are made of dust. Adam had the breath of God blown into the nostrils. That is not the Spirit of God but only the breath of God to give us life. That life spirit only may give us 70 odd years of physical life before the death, as described in Ecc 12.That sonship to God through Adam is just time to find, or not find, eternal life in the Son We too, if we are reborn into Christ through water and the Spirit can drink of the water of Life which is the Spirit and that Spirit will be with us into eternity in Christ. Animals also have the breath of God blown into their flesh. Their flesh is different as 1 cor 15 tells us and Ecclesiastes 3.21 suggests their spirit at death has a different destiny.

Was Jesus born separated from the Spirit of the Father, in His human flesh?

Animals are living souls, but they are not the sons of God, are they?

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Gen 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein [is] the breath of life.
Gen 7:22 All in whose nostrils [was] the breath of life, of all that [was] in the dry [land],

Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead [man]: and every living soul died in the sea.

God breathed into the man that He had formed from the dust of the ground the breath of life and man became a living soul.

The animals have the breath of life, and they are living souls.

Why are the animals not sons of God?

I agree with you that the breath of life is not the spirit that God formed within man.

Why did God give Adam the fruit of the tree of life to freely eat, so that he would live forever in his human body, when He created him a son of God?
Why was there no limit to the years man could live in His body in the beginning and why did God cast the man out of the Garden when he sinned?

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,01:49)

Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,00:47) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,00:12) Hi , Yes Satan is interesting. We know all things were created through the Son of God and Satan is included. He had fallen from grace by the time adam and Eve walked in the Garden as Revelation shows the serpent as Satan.  He never was greater than the Son as he was created through him. Sons of god were recorded as being involved with the evil of Genesis 6. Cherubs are seen in the vision of Ezekiel [eg10.7] as a manlike servant being quite different to Cherubim. I do not see Satan written as an Archangel, but he is written as a prince,”the prince of this world”, and Michael is called an archangel in Jude but a prince in Daniel. there is the connection for me. So are the sons of God of Jb1,2,38 and Gen 6 Archangels and Satan also? There are many princes in the Word of God, rulers, but they are not archangels. There is only one archangel, meaning the 'chief', of the angels, Michael. Hi, Dan 10.13 “…then behold Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me” Dan 10.21 ” ..Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael, your prince” Who are the other chief princes? Gabriel etc?

No one else is called chief angel.
AV – prince 208, captain 130, chief 33, ruler 33, governor 6, keeper 3,
principal 2, general 1, lords 1, misc 4; 421

I think in that translation there is a fault, for there can be only one chief, not more than one. Young’s translates it thus:

`And the head of the kingdom of Persia is standing over-against me twenty and one days, and lo, Michael, first of the chief heads, hath come in to help me, and I have remained there near the kings of Persia;

Robert Young Literal Translation 1862, 1887, 1898 Info

There aren’t a plethora of chiefs among the rulers of angels. Adam was the head of the earth, Michael is the head of the heavenly order of rulers, principalities and powers, having been designated so at creation as Adam was designated chief ruler of earth.

Dan 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and [there is] none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

[Anonymous]

Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,02:11)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,01:49) Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,00:47) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,00:12) Hi , Yes Satan is interesting. We know all things were created through the Son of God and Satan is included. He had fallen from grace by the time adam and Eve walked in the Garden as Revelation shows the serpent as Satan.  He never was greater than the Son as he was created through him. Sons of god were recorded as being involved with the evil of Genesis 6. Cherubs are seen in the vision of Ezekiel [eg10.7] as a manlike servant being quite different to Cherubim. I do not see Satan written as an Archangel, but he is written as a prince,”the prince of this world”, and Michael is called an archangel in Jude but a prince in Daniel. there is the connection for me. So are the sons of God of Jb1,2,38 and Gen 6 Archangels and Satan also? There are many princes in the Word of God, rulers, but they are not archangels. There is only one archangel, meaning the 'chief', of the angels, Michael. Hi, Dan 10.13 “…then behold Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me” Dan 10.21 ” ..Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael, your prince” Who are the other chief princes? Gabriel etc? No one else is called chief angel. AV – prince 208, captain 130, chief 33, ruler 33, governor 6, keeper 3, principal 2, general 1, lords 1, misc 4; 421 I think in that translation there is a fault, for there can be only one chief, not more than one. Young’s translates it thus: `And the head of the kingdom of Persia is standing over-against me twenty and one days, and lo, Michael, first of the chief heads, hath come in to help me, and I have remained there near the kings of Persia; Robert Young Literal Translation 1862, 1887, 1898 Info There aren’t a plethora of chiefs among the rulers of angels. Adam was the head of the earth, Michael is the head of the heavenly order of rulers, principalities and powers, having been designated so at creation as Adam was designated chief ruler of earth. Dan 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and [there is] none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince. Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

This is my post, again. It posted while I was writing my name.
-this is a trigger happy host program.

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,00:56)

Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,00:03) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,23:35) Guest,July wrote: [quote=Nick Hassan,July 27 2005,22:17] Cubes,July wrote: Hi all: The Jews rightly claimed they were sons of God[yet wanted to kill Jesus for saying he was] Some of the Jews claimed a relationship with God through Abraham and Moses. Jesus called them sons of the Devil as it is he they followed. Such is death. Where did the Jews call themselves the sons of God? Hi , Jn 8.41 ” ..They said to him 'We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God”

They didn't say that they were the sons of God, though they admitted they had one Father, God.
He is the Father of all creation. All creation is not sons of God

God has called Israel his sons and daughters, but they are called that because He put His Spirit among them, as a nation, and dwelt among them in the temple.
It was one sign of the future adoption, when the Spirit of God would enter them personally again.
He was not dwelling in them, but among them, from the Exodus, and only as a nation.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,01:56)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,00:45) Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,00:14) Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,00:08) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,22:50) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,22:11) nick wrote: [quote=Guest,July 27 2005,21:31]quote] sir, Would Adam's seed be sons of God and sons of Adam, both, if Adam had not fallen? biblically speaking, that is? Hi, According to scripture we are still both in a way.There is no scripture since Acts 17 that says Adam's stock ceased to be sons of God is there? The parable of the prodigal son shows that as long as the son was not with the Father, he was dead. We are dead. we are not in the Father's house and He is not inour house. We are not with the Father and the Father is not with us. We are not the sons of God. Something is separating us from the Father. What is that separation? Why must we receive Jesus christ for Him to give us the power to be the sons of God? What is the life that He gives and what is the death that we are in? In John 1, He came- 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.- “And as many as receive Him gave He power to become the sons of God”, and 'become' is used in these ways in the scriptures; AV – be 255, come to pass 82, be made 69, be done 63, come 52, become 47… My point to you, sir, is: Adam was made a Son of God, created in the image and likeness of God. What made Adam, formed from the dust,  the son of God, as opposed to the animals, formed from the dust, who were made for Adam to rule over 'not' sons of God? Why aren’t the animals sons of God? What made Adam a son of God? Why are Adam’s offspring now 'not' sons of God and needing to receive Jesus Christ to have the power from Him to be the sons of God? What is that power that makes one born of Adam a son of God if they receive Jesus Christ? Why is that power missing from all Adam’s offspring? Why is the holy thing born from the womb of Mary a Son of God? What was in Him that made Him a Son of God, and why do no sons of Adam have that power in them? When did it depart from the first human son of God? How is it that there needs to be a second human son of God? If God can make human sons from rocks and clay, why did He use the womb of the virgin to make the last human Son? Hi , The Son of God was as the Word with God in the beginning. He is the image of God through whom all creation was made. He humbled himself and emptied himself and partook of flesh. He then was filled with the Spirit of God as a vessel for the Spirit of His Father. We are made of dust. Adam had the breath of God blown into the nostrils. That is not the Spirit of God but only the breath of God to give us life. That life spirit only may give us 70 odd years of physical life before the death, as described in Ecc 12.That sonship to God through Adam is just time to find, or not find, eternal life in the Son We too, if we are reborn into Christ through water and the Spirit can drink of the water of Life which is the Spirit and that Spirit will be with us into eternity in Christ. Animals also have the breath of God blown into their flesh. Their flesh is different as 1 cor 15 tells us and Ecclesiastes 3.21 suggests their spirit at death has a different destiny. Was Jesus born separated from the Spirit of the Father, in His human flesh? Animals are living souls, but they are not the sons of God, are they? Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Gen 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein [is] the breath of life. Gen 7:22 All in whose nostrils [was] the breath of life, of all that [was] in the dry [land], Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead [man]: and every living soul died in the sea. God breathed into the man  that He had formed from the dust of the ground the breath of life and man became a living soul. The animals have the breath of life, and they are living souls. Why are the animals not sons of God? I agree with you that the breath of life is not the spirit that God formed within man. Why did God give Adam the fruit of the tree of life to freely eat, so that he would live forever in his human body, when He created him a son of God? Why was there no limit to the years man could live in His body in the beginning and why did God cast the man out of the Garden when he sinned?

Hi,
The partaking of flesh body by Jesus Christ made him like to us in all ways except sin. So he was body, soul and spirit as we are-that is his own spirit and not the Holy Spirit. He was only filled with the Holy Spirit of God at his baptism by John. He was truly a man and had no advantages over us so we can follow him.
God declares in the Word that Adam was his son. He does not say that, by the Spirit, about animals. God also declares who are the reborn sons and their names are written in the Book of Life. The power of rebirth is the life of the Spirit that never leaves us and will cause us to be raised up to eternity too.
Adam's offspring were never promised eternal life. God's plan all along was to create new sons in His Son so that He is in all and all reborn in Him.
It would appear from Genesis that Adam did not eat of the tree of Life though he was allowed to. He wanted control , when is was offered by satan, and sought knowledge instead of life. Sin brought death.
It was God's choice to limit man's years in Genesis 6.3. He still has the door open for all men to take advantage of salvation offered in the Son, but that will not last.Hebrews 4 pleads with us to take tha dvantage of the Sabbath rest-which is the 1000 yr-[7th day] reign.

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,01:03)

Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,00:08) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,22:50) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,22:11) nick wrote: [quote=Guest,July 27 2005,21:31]quote] sir, Would Adam's seed be sons of God and sons of Adam, both, if Adam had not fallen? biblically speaking, that is? Hi, According to scripture we are still both in a way.There is no scripture since Acts 17 that says Adam's stock ceased to be sons of God is there? The parable of the prodigal son shows that as long as the son was not with the Father, he was dead. We are dead. we are not in the Father's house and He is not inour house. We are not with the Father and the Father is not with us. We are not the sons of God. Something is separating us from the Father. What is that separation? Why must we receive Jesus christ for Him to give us the power to be the sons of God? What is the life that He gives and what is the death that we are in? Yes that parable teaches a lot. The faithful son is the Jew hoping to “inherit “the kingdom. The prodigal son takes his birthright and son walks away into sin. He no longer has an inheritance. He repents and walks back to find His Father coming to meet him in forgiveness. The Father covers his sin with the robe of Righteousness of the Son of God and puts the ring of the power and authority of the Spirit on his finger, and he enjoys full sonship. The Father now sees the beloved Son when he looks at him and no longer sees sin. We are all as that prodigal son.

Where does it say that the faithful son is the Jew hoping to inherit the kingdom?
Where does it say that the prodigal is the Gentiles?

The Gentiles were never the living sons of God from the time that Adam died.

The Jews were sons as nation only because God came to dwell among them, which is the point I've been hoping to lead you to understand.

If we are His sons, He is dwelling within us.
He will dwell in the adopted sons, which is what the nation of Israel was, as IAR was telling about.

It is the Spirit of God that makes one Sons.
Animals have the breath of life, and they are not sons.
Adam had the breath of life, and He was a son of God.

Satan is not a son of God, not in the scriptures, anywhere, but a creature, called a beast, a Cherub who had a position of glory but is fallen and he tramsforms himself into an angel of light.
He is not a son of God, not in the word anywhere that I've found, but he is a prince of darkness, a ruler of the rebels over this world, and he got that position when Adam yielded himself to the sin.
He rules this world, as a rebel, in the place of Adam, for Adam was given the rule of the world and the 'heaven' of this world, the air, in the beginning.

Created heavenly angels may rule or not rule, they may just serve, as the Cherubim serve who are mentioned in the scriptures. -The Cherubim are never seen as 'messengers', but guards, and bearers of the throne of glory.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,02:40)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,01:03) Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,00:08) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,22:50) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,22:11) nick wrote: [quote=Guest,July 27 2005,21:31]quote] sir, Would Adam's seed be sons of God and sons of Adam, both, if Adam had not fallen? biblically speaking, that is? Hi, According to scripture we are still both in a way.There is no scripture since Acts 17 that says Adam's stock ceased to be sons of God is there? The parable of the prodigal son shows that as long as the son was not with the Father, he was dead. We are dead. we are not in the Father's house and He is not inour house. We are not with the Father and the Father is not with us. We are not the sons of God. Something is separating us from the Father. What is that separation? Why must we receive Jesus christ for Him to give us the power to be the sons of God? What is the life that He gives and what is the death that we are in? Yes that parable teaches a lot. The faithful son is the Jew hoping to “inherit “the kingdom. The prodigal son takes his birthright and son walks away into sin. He no longer has an inheritance. He repents and walks back to find His Father coming to meet him in forgiveness. The Father covers his sin with the robe of Righteousness of the Son of God and puts the ring of the power and authority of the Spirit on his finger, and he enjoys full sonship. The Father now sees the beloved Son when he looks at him and no longer sees sin. We are all as that prodigal son. Where does it say that the faithful son is the Jew hoping to inherit the kingdom? Where does it say that the prodigal is the Gentiles? The Gentiles were never the living sons of God from the time that Adam died. The Jews were sons as nation only because God came to dwell among them, which is the point I've been hoping to lead you to understand. If we are His sons, He is dwelling within us. He will dwell in the adopted sons, which is what the nation of Israel was, as IAR was telling about. It is the Spirit of God that makes one Sons. Animals have the breath of life, and they are not sons. Adam had the breath of life, and He was a son of God. Satan is not a son of God, not in the scriptures, anywhere, but a creature, called a beast, a Cherub who had a position of glory but is fallen and he tramsforms himself into an angel of light. He is not a son of God, not in the word anywhere that I've found, but he is a prince of darkness, a ruler of the rebels over this world, and he got that position when Adam yielded himself to the sin. He rules this world, as a rebel, in the place of Adam, for Adam was given the rule of the world and the 'heaven' of this world, the air, in the beginning. Created heavenly angels may rule or not rule, they may just serve, as the Cherubim serve who are mentioned in the scriptures. -The Cherubim are never seen as 'messengers',  but guards, and bearers of the throne of glory.

Hi,
The Jews asked Jesus
” What must we do to inherit the kingdom”[eg Lk 10.25] and he replied that they should obey the commandments, the Law. That was the inheritance through Abraham.
Jesus perfectly fulfilled the Law, which gentiles were never under anyway, for us and the Jews so we inherit in him.

The good son had this said to him by the Father
” My child, you have always been with me , and all that is mine is yours”
That is inheritance for those still under the Law perfectly fulfilled.

The rest of the Jews and all of the gentiles are outside the Law and the inheritance so must come into the kingdom through the son.

Cherubim seem almost to make aup a living throne as descrbed in Ezek 1-10.Cherubs there are not evil beasts but servants of God.

Satan was evil before Adam sinned . He is the prince of this kingdom of darkness. Jesus came to restore that kingdom as the Prince of Princes and the Prince of peace.

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,02:32)

Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,01:56) nick wrote: [quote=Guest,July 28 2005,00:14 sir, Would Adam's seed be sons of God and sons of Adam, both, if Adam had not fallen? biblically speaking, that is? What is that separation? Why must we receive Jesus christ for Him to give us the power to be the sons of God? ~ Hi, The partaking of flesh body by Jesus Christ made him like to us in all ways except sin. So he was body, soul and spirit as we are-that is his own spirit and not the Holy Spirit. He was only filled with the Holy Spirit of God at his baptism by John. He was truly a man and had no advantages over us so we can follow him. God declares in the Word that Adam was his son. He does not say that, by the Spirit, about animals. God also declares who are the reborn sons and their names are written in the Book of Life. The power of rebirth is the life of the Spirit that never leaves us and will cause us to be raised up to eternity too. Adam's offspring were never promised eternal life. God's plan all along was to create new sons in His Son so that He is in all and all reborn in Him. It would appear from Genesis that Adam did not eat of the tree of Life though he was allowed to. Hebrews 4 pleads with us to take tha dvantage of the Sabbath rest-which is the 1000 yr-[7th day] reign.

My point to you, sir, is:
Adam was made a Son of God, created in the image and likeness of God, and given the tree of life to eat freely. He was never forbidden to eat the fruit of the tree of life until he was cast out of the garden after his sin.

God said that Adam could live forever in that body, but God didn't want Adam to live forever in that fallen body.
Why?

Why is man needing a new spirit for the Spirit of God to dwell in him, and why did the angel say that because the Holy Spirit came upon Mary and the power of the highest overshadowed her, therefore the holy thing born of her was the Son of God.

He was born the Son of God, from Mary, said the angel? Why?
What was it that made Him the human Son of God from her womb?

Why could he be born the Son of God but we must receive Him to be given the power from Him to become the sons of God?

Why does He give us the Power that he was overshadowed with in the womb of the virgin that makes us the sons of God?
Why is it said that He gives the power to make us sons, if the Father is the Spiritf?

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,02:57)

Guest,July wrote: [quote=Nick Hassan,July 28 2005,01:03] Hi, The Jews asked Jesus ” What must we do to inherit the kingdom”[eg Lk 10.25] and he replied that they should obey the commandments, the Law. That was the inheritance through Abraham.

Why did Jesus tell Nicodemus that he must be born again to see the kingdom of God? And what is the water? IT cannot be water baptism, for baprism does not save, the word declares, so what is the water?

How is one born of the Spirit while they are living in this body?

What is the kingdom of God that the meek will inherit? Where is it located? When was it prepared? Where was it prepared and what has happened to it?

Why did Abraham believe God and it was accounted to him for righteousness? Why is Abraham the 'father' of believers, when He never heard of the law of Moses?

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

The New Birth
3There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man *who is in heaven.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should *not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

Why is receiving the Son of God the way to be given the power from the Son of God to become the sons of God?

Why would a God add keeping many laws to a sinner whose father couldn't keep just one law, for the sinner to be made righteous and inherit the kingdom that his father had lost by breaking one law?

How can a son of Adam be loaded down with laws to keep, to inherit the kingdom that his father lost by breaking just one law?
What kind of God has said that? -none that I've met, BTW!

If Adam could not keep just one law, how is it that a just God would pile on laws to give eternal life to Adam's sons?

[NickHassan]

Hi,
God always had a better plan. He wanted rid of sin forever and so that happens when all are in the Son in Him. He has all creation in His crucible constantly getting rid of the dross.

He is the “only begotten Son”. That preceeds his birth-monogenes in greek is unrelated to physical birth The Father was his physical Father by the spirit and Mary his mother. He was conceived.

He always was the Son of God but he became physically so as well. And he was reborn of water and the Spirit just as we must do if we follow him.

The Spirit serves God and helps us relate to God as the Spirit is of God. Reborn of that Spirit as he was makes us too sons of God.

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,03:26)

Hi, God always had a better plan. He wanted rid of sin forever and so that happens when all are in the Son in Him. He has all creation in His crucible constantly getting rid of the dross. He is the “only begotten Son”. That preceeds his birth-monogenes in greek is unrelated to physical birth The Father was his physical Father by the spirit and Mary his mother. He was conceived. He always was the Son of God but he became physically so as well. And he was reborn of water and the Spirit just as we must do if we follow him. The Spirit serves God and helps us relate to God as the Spirit is of God. Reborn of that Spirit as he was makes us too sons of God.

I don't know why my posts are posting twice.

Sir,
Why is Isaac called the monogenes of Abraham?
What is it about Isaac that is like the Son of God?

Where does it say in the Word that he always was the Son of God?

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Where does it say that He was the Son of God always?

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,03:26)

Hi, God always had a better plan. He wanted rid of sin forever and so that happens when all are in the Son in Him. He has all creation in His crucible constantly getting rid of the dross. He is the “only begotten Son”. That preceeds his birth-monogenes in greek is unrelated to physical birth The Father was his physical Father by the spirit and Mary his mother. He was conceived. He always was the Son of God but he became physically so as well. And he was reborn of water and the Spirit just as we must do if we follow him. The Spirit serves God and helps us relate to God as the Spirit is of God. Reborn of that Spirit as he was makes us too sons of God.

When does the word of God say that sin entered the world?
How did it enter and by whom? by Satan, or by Adam?
When does the Word of God say that death entered the world? by whom? Satan or by Adam?

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,03:35)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,03:26) Hi, God always had a better plan. He wanted rid of sin forever and so that happens when all are in the Son in Him. He has all creation in His crucible constantly getting rid of the dross. He is the “only begotten Son”. That preceeds his birth-monogenes in greek is unrelated to physical birth The Father was his physical Father by the spirit and Mary his mother. He was conceived. He always was the Son of God but he became physically so as well. And he was reborn of water and the Spirit just as we must do if we follow him. The Spirit serves God and helps us relate to God as the Spirit is of God. Reborn of that Spirit as he was makes us too sons of God. I don't know why my posts are posting twice. Sir, Why is Isaac called the monogenes of Abraham? What is it about Isaac that is like the Son of God? Where does it say in the Word that he always was the Son of God? Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Where does it say that He was the Son of God always?

Hi,
The only begotten son is spoken of by John
Jn 1 14
“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and we have seen his glory, glory as the only begotten from the Father”
He is that Word, only begotten from the Father. Of the Father only as spiritual being and sent from the Father to partake of flesh as a physical Son of God too.

Isaac was not the first son nor the only son. But he was unique as the chosen one of God's line of inheritance.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,02:21)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,00:56) Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,00:03) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,23:35) Guest,July wrote: [quote=Nick Hassan,July 27 2005,22:17] Cubes,July wrote: Hi all: The Jews rightly claimed they were sons of God[yet wanted to kill Jesus for saying he was] Some of the Jews claimed a relationship with God through Abraham and Moses. Jesus called them sons of the Devil as it is he they followed. Such is death. Where did the Jews call themselves the sons of God? Hi , Jn 8.41 ” ..They said to him 'We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God” They didn't say that they were the sons of God, though they admitted they had one Father, God. He is the Father of all creation. All creation is not sons of God God has called Israel his sons and daughters, but they are called that because He put His Spirit among them, as a nation, and dwelt among them in the temple. It was one sign of the future adoption, when the Spirit of God would enter them personally again. He was not dwelling in them, but among them, from the Exodus, and only as a nation.

Hi,
Yes he dwelt among his people and will do so again at the end of time and beginning of eternity. He was among his people through the prophets but now He can indwell his people by His spirit as we are adopted into His family in his Son.

To say their father was God is another way of saying they are sons of God. God is the source and sustainer of all creation through His son. Creation is cursed except in the Son.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,03:22)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,02:57) Guest,July wrote: [quote=Nick Hassan,July 28 2005,01:03] Hi, The Jews asked Jesus ” What must we do to inherit the kingdom”[eg Lk 10.25] and he replied that they should obey the commandments, the Law. That was the inheritance through Abraham. Why did Jesus tell Nicodemus that he must be born again to see the kingdom of God? And what is the water? IT cannot be water baptism, for baprism does not save, the word declares, so what is the water? How is one born of the Spirit while they are living in this body? What is the kingdom of God that the meek will inherit? Where is it located? When was it prepared? Where was it prepared and what has happened to it? Why did Abraham believe God and it was accounted to him for righteousness? Why is  Abraham the 'father' of believers, when He never heard of the law of Moses? Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. The New Birth 3There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” 9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man *who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should *not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.” Why is receiving the Son of God the way to be given the power from the Son of God to become the sons of God? Why would a God add keeping many laws to a sinner whose father couldn't keep just one law, for the sinner to be made righteous and inherit the kingdom that his father had lost by breaking one law? How can a son of Adam be loaded down with laws to keep, to inherit the kingdom that his father lost by breaking just one law? What kind of God has said that? -none that I've met, BTW! If Adam could not keep just one law, how is it that a just God would pile on laws to give eternal life to Adam's sons?

Hi ,
It is water baptism. Look at Acts and see how important it is in the eyes of God if not of men. What did Phillip tell the eunuch to lead him to seek it?
Check 1 Jn 5.7 and you will see it is a witness before God for Christ and we need that witness too. We need to repent and be baptised for the forgiveness of our sins as Peter told the crowds at Pentecost. Our names need to be written in the book of life.
1Peter 3.21
” And corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-through the resurrection of Jesus Christ”

Belief in biblical terms is not intellectual assent but is accompanied by action as a witness to that belief. Even the demons believe.
Nobody is suggesting it is possible to now be saved by law observance. That was when the law was in force only till the time of John and since then the kingdom is preached and the violent foce their way in.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Satan was a murderer from the beginning and his judgement is made and he awaits it's execution. His is an open and shut case.
God was interested in testing man. In one way Satan is an instrument of God's purposes to test man and Adam failed the test, sin and death entered the world, the kingdom of darkness.

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,04:24)

Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,03:35) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,03:26) Hi, God always had a better plan. He wanted rid of sin forever and so that happens when all are in the Son in Him. He has all creation in His crucible constantly getting rid of the dross. He is the “only begotten Son”. That preceeds his birth-monogenes in greek is unrelated to physical birth The Father was his physical Father by the spirit and Mary his mother. He was conceived. He always was the Son of God but he became physically so as well. And he was reborn of water and the Spirit just as we must do if we follow him. The Spirit serves God and helps us relate to God as the Spirit is of God. Reborn of that Spirit as he was makes us too sons of God. I don't know why my posts are posting twice. Sir, Why is Isaac called the monogenes of Abraham? What is it about Isaac that is like the Son of God? Where does it say in the Word that he always was the Son of God? Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Where does it say that He was the Son of God always? Hi, The only begotten son is spoken of by John Jn 1 14 “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and we have seen his glory, glory as the only begotten from the Father” He is that Word, only begotten from the Father. Of the Father only as spiritual being and sent from the Father to partake of flesh as a physical Son of God too. Isaac was not the first son nor the only son. But he was unique as the chosen one of God's line of inheritance.

I have to go, but 'pro' I go, I would ask you to prove to me from scripture that JEsus was the firstborn son of God from anyplace in scripture, for I cannot find it and it doesn't exist.
He existed, and He said that the scriptures testify of Him and He began at Moses to expound all that was written in the law and the prophets about Him after His resurrection, to those on the road to Emmaeus.

Where is all that is written about Him from Moses on in the Old Testament?
What does it ALL say about Him?

There is not one place that He is called the Son of God in the Old Testament who always existed as the Son of God.

There are the prophecies of His coming.
And there is the position of 'monogenes' that He would hold over this earth, but that is when he is born, from the virgin, as the seed of the woman, and as a human and becomes the Firstborn over this earth.

Where is Adam among the sons of God, as I asked you, when the sons of God appeared before the lord of hosts? As son of God, why is Adam not there, nor his firstborn?
Did this earth have a 'firstborn' human after Adam died?

What is it too be firstborn over this earth?
-A side note; Satan is called a Cherub, only, and Cherubim are called creeatures, not angels, and creatures is translated beasts, also, and Satan is the only one of them in rebellion, apparently, and led amny of the hosts of heaven into the rebellion, even the son of God, Adam.

But you did not answer how sin entered this world, on biblical authority, nor how death entered this world, on biblical authority. Not by Satan, but both by Adam, for Adam, not Satan, was made the firstborn over this earth adn given the rule of this earth in the beginning.
And you did not answer why it was that Adam was given to eat freely of the fruit of the tree of life, and could live forever in his fallen state of being in that body if he had been allowed to remain in the Garden and partake of that tree's fruit in his fallen state.

Why is it that Adam could not have access to what he was first given freely to eat of? He could eat freely, without restriction, to the tree of life. After he rebelled, he was not allowed to eat of that tree's fruit precisely because he was not going to be allowed to live forever in that fallen body, which was no longer allowed to have access to the spiritual realm or be represented among the sons of God.

Why did a Redeemer have to come to pay a price to Redeem Adam's kingdom and all mankind born of Adam?
What was the payment required to Redeem?
How was He able to pay it? Why was He the only one who could pay the price?

The study:

Psa 89:27 Also I will make 05414 him [my] firstborn 01060, higher 05945 than the kings 04428 of the earth 0776.

When was He made the monogenes, higher than the kings of the earth?

I have to go, as I said, but the following is a study I did about the Firstborn, and only begotten, please study up on it, for there is just no place that it is said that Jesus was God's firstborn son before He came to dwell in the human body -prove otherwise, if you have Bible proof.

2Cr 12:2 I knew 1492 a man 444 in 1722 Christ 5547 above 4253 0 fourteen 1180 years 2094 ago 4253, (whether 1535 in 1722 the body 4983, I cannot 3756 tell 1492 ; or whether 1535 out 1622 of the body 4983, I cannot 3756 tell 1492 : God 2316 knoweth 1492 😉 such an one 5108 caught up 726 to 2193 the third 5154 heaven 3772.

Jam 5:12 But 1161 above 4253 all things 3956, my 3450 brethren 80, swear 3660 not 3361, neither 3383 by heaven 3772, neither 3383 by the earth 1093, neither 3383 by any 5100 other 243 oath 3727: but 1161 let 2277 0 your 5216 yea 3483 be 2277 yea 3483; and 2532 [your] nay 3756, nay 3756; lest 3363 ye fall 4098 into 1519 condemnation 5272.

1Pe 4:8 And 1161 above 4253 all things 3956 have 2192 fervent 1618 charity 26 among 1519 yourselves 1438: for 3754 charity 26 shall cover 2572 the multitude 4128 of sins 266.

Jhn 17:5 And 2532 now 3568, O Father 3962, glorify 1392 thou 4771 me 3165 with 3844 thine own self 4572 with the glory 1391 which 3739 I had 2192 with 3844 thee 4671 before 4253 the world 2889 was 1511 .
Jhn 17:24 Father 3962, I will 2309 that 2443 they also 2548, whom 3739 thou hast given 1325 me 3427, be 5600 with 3326 me 1700 where 3699 I 1473 am 1510 ; that 2443 they may behold 2334 my 1699 glory 1391, which 3739 thou hast given 1325 me 3427: for 3754 thou lovedst 25 me 3165 before 4253 the foundation 2602 of the world 2889.

Eph 1:4 According as 2531 he hath chosen 1586 us 2248 in 1722 him 846 before 4253 the foundation 2602 of the world 2889, that we 2248 should be 1511 holy 40 and 2532 without blame 299 before 2714 him 846 in 1722 love 26:

2Ti 1:9 Who 3588 hath saved 4982 us 2248, and 2532 called 2564 [us] with an holy 40 calling 2821, not 3756 according to 2596 our 2257 works 2041, but 235 according to 2596 his own 2398 purpose 4286 and 2532 grace 5485, which 3588 was given 1325 us 2254 in 1722 Christ 5547 Jesus 2424 before 4253 the world began 5550 166,
Tts 1:2 In 1909 hope 1680 of eternal 166 life 2222, which 3739 God 2316, that cannot lie 893, promised 1861 before 4253 the world 166 began 5550;
1Pe 1:20 Who verily 3303 was foreordained 4267 before 4253 the foundation 2602 of the world 2889, but 1161 was manifest 5319 in 1909 these last 2078 times 5550 for 1223 you 5209,

Deu 25:6 And it shall be, [that] the firstborn 01060 which she beareth 03
205 shall succeed 06965 in the name 08034 of his brother 0251 [which is] dead 04191 , that his name 08034 be not put out 04229 of Israel 03478.

Deu 21:16 Then it shall be, when 03117 he maketh his sons 01121 to inherit 05157 [that] which he hath, [that] he may 03201 not make the son 01121 of the beloved 0157 firstborn 01069 before 06440 the son 01121 of the hated 08130 , [which is indeed] the firstborn 01060:

2Sa 3:2 And unto David 01732 were sons 01121 born 03205 03205 in Hebron 02275: and his firstborn 01060 was Amnon 0550, of Ahinoam 0293 the Jezreelitess 03159;

1Ch 5:1 Now the sons 01121 of Reuben 07205 the firstborn 01060 of Israel 03478, (for he [was] the firstborn 01060; but, forasmuch as he defiled 02490 his father's 01 bed 03326, his birthright 01062 was given 05414 unto the sons 01121 of Joseph 03130 the son 01121 of Israel 03478: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned 03187 after the birthright 01062.

Job 18:13 It shall devour 0398 the strength 0905 of his skin 05785: [even] the firstborn 01060 of death 04194 shall devour 0398 his strength 0905.

Psa 89:27 Also I will make 05414 him [my] firstborn 01060, higher 05945 than the kings 04428 of the earth 0776.
Rom 8:29 For 3754 whom 3739 he did foreknow 4267 , he 4309 0 also 2532 did predestinate 4309 [to be] conformed 4832 to the image 1504 of his 846 Son 5207, that 1519 he 846 might be 1511 the firstborn 4416 among 1722 many 4183 brethren 80.
Col 1:15 Who 3739 is 2076 the image 1504 of the invisible 517 God 2316, the firstborn 4416 of every 3956 creature 2937:
Col 1:18 And 2532 he 846 is 2076 the head 2776 of the body 4983, the church 1577: who 3739 is 2076 the beginning 746, the firstborn 4416 from 1537 the dead 3498; that 2443 in 1722 all 3956 [things] he 846 might have 1096 the preeminence 4409 .
Hbr 12:23 To the general assembly 3831 and 2532 church 1577 of the firstborn 4416, which are written 583 in 1722 heaven 3772, and 2532 to God 2316 the Judge 2923 of all 3956, and 2532 to the spirits 4151 of just men 1342 made perfect 5048 ,
Proteuo 1) to be first, hold the first place

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Hbr 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
The Messiah's Triumph and Kingdom
(Acts 4:23-31)
Why do the nations rage,
And the people plot a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 “Yet I have set My King
On My holy hill of Zion.”
7 “I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
'You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall *break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.'”
10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear,
And rejoice with trembling.
12 *Kiss the Son, lest *He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.

1) only, only one, solitary, one
a) only, unique, one
b) solitary
c) (TWOT) only begotten son
yachiyd

Jdg 11:34 And Jephthah 03316 came 0935 to Mizpeh 04709 unto his house 01004, and, behold, his daughter 01323 came out 03318 to meet 07125 him with timbrels 08596 and with dances 04246: and she [was his] only child 03173; beside her he had neither son 01121 nor 0176 daughter 01323.
Psa 22:20 Deliver 05337 my soul 05315 from the sword 02719; my darling 03173 from the power 03027 of the dog 03611.

Psa 35:17 Lord 0136, how long wilt thou look on 07200 ? rescue 07725 my soul 05315 from their destructions 07722, my darling 03173 from the lions 03715.
Pro 4:3 For I was my father's 01 son 01121, tender 07390 and only 03173 [beloved] in the sight 06440 of my mother 0517.
Psa 25:16 Turn 06437 thee unto me, and have mercy 02603 upon me; for I [am] desolate 03173 and afflicted 06041.
Psa 68:6 God 0430 setteth 03427 the solitary 03173 in families 01004: he bringeth out 03318 those
The Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03173&l=en

Original Word dyxy
from (03161)
Transliterated WordYachiyd
Phonetic Spelling yaw-kheed'

KJV (12) – darling, 2; desolate, 1; only, 6; only child, 1; only son, 1; solitary, 1;
NAS (12) – lonely, 2; one and child, 1; only, 5; only son, 4;

Verse Count KJV NAS
Genesis3
Judges1
Psalms4
Proverbs1
Jeremiah1
Amos1
Zechariah1

NAS
Genesis3
Judges1
Psalms4
Proverbs1
Jeremiah1
Amos1
Zechariah1

Copyright Statement
The Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon is Brown, Driver, Briggs, Gesenius Lexicon; this is keyed to the “Theological Word Book of the Old Testament.” These files are considered public domain.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries. Copyright © 1981, 1998 by The Lockman Foundation. All rights reserved. http://www.lockman.org/.
Bibliography Information
Brown, Driver, Briggs and Gesenius. “Hebrew Lexicon entry for Yachiyd”. “The Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon”.
.

which are bound 0615 with chains 03574: but the rebellious 05637 dwell 07931 in a dry 06707 [land].

[Anonymous]

Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,17:05)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,04:24) Quote (Guest @ July 28 2005,03:35) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2005,03:26) Hi, God always had a better plan. He wanted rid of sin forever and so that happens when all are in the Son in Him. He has all creation in His crucible constantly getting rid of the dross. He is the “only begotten Son”. That preceeds his birth-monogenes in greek is unrelated to physical birth The Father was his physical Father by the spirit and Mary his mother. He was conceived. He always was the Son of God but he became physically so as well. And he was reborn of water and the Spirit just as we must do if we follow him. The Spirit serves God and helps us relate to God as the Spirit is of God. Reborn of that Spirit as he was makes us too sons of God. I don't know why my posts are posting twice. Sir, Why is Isaac called the monogenes of Abraham? What is it about Isaac that is like the Son of God? Where does it say in the Word that he always was the Son of God? Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Where does it say that He was the Son of God always? Hi, The only begotten son is spoken of by John Jn 1 14 “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and we have seen his glory, glory as the only begotten from the Father” He is that Word, only begotten from the Father. Of the Father only as spiritual being and sent from the Father to partake of flesh as a physical Son of God too. Isaac was not the first son nor the only son. But he was unique as the chosen one of God's line of inheritance. I have to go, but 'pro' I go, I would ask you to prove to me from scripture that JEsus was the firstborn son of God from anyplace in scripture, for I cannot find it and it doesn't exist. He existed, and He said that the scriptures testify of Him and He began at Moses to expound all that was written in the law and the prophets about Him after His resurrection, to those on the road to Emmaeus. Where is all that is written about Him from Moses on in the Old Testament? What does it ALL say about Him? There is not one place that He is called the Son of God in the Old Testament who always existed as the Son of God. There are the prophecies of His coming. And there is the position of 'monogenes' that He would hold over this earth, but that is when he is born, from the virgin, as the seed of the woman, and  as a human and becomes the Firstborn over this earth. Where is Adam among the sons of God, as I asked you, when the sons of God appeared before the lord of hosts? As son of God, why is Adam not there, nor his firstborn? Did this earth have a 'firstborn' human after Adam died? What is it too be firstborn over this earth? -A side note; Satan is called a Cherub, only, and Cherubim are called creeatures, not angels, and creatures is translated beasts, also, and Satan is the only one of them in rebellion, apparently, and led amny of the hosts of heaven into the rebellion, even the son of God, Adam. But you did not answer how sin entered this world, on biblical authority, nor how death entered this world, on biblical authority. Not by Satan, but both by Adam, for Adam, not Satan, was made the firstborn over this earth adn given the rule of this earth in the beginning. And you did not answer why it was that Adam was given to eat freely of the fruit of the tree of life, and could live forever in his fallen state of being in that body if he had been allowed to remain in the Garden and partake of that tree's fruit in his fallen state. Why is it that Adam could not have access to what he was first given freely to eat of? He could eat freely, without restriction, to the tree of life. After he rebelled, he was not allowed to eat of that tree's fruit precisely because he was not going to be allowed to live forever in that fallen body, which was no longer allowed to have access to the spiritual realm or be represented among the sons of God. Why did a Redeemer have to come to pay a price to Redeem Adam's kingdom and all mankind born of Adam? What was the payment required to Redeem? How was He able to pay it? Why was He the only one who could pay the price? The study: Psa 89:27 Also I will make 05414 him [my] firstborn 01060, higher 05945 than the kings 04428 of the earth 0776. When was He made the monogenes, higher than the kings of the earth? I have to go, as I said, but the following is a study I did about the Firstborn, and only begotten, please study up on it, for there is just no place that it is said that Jesus was God's firstborn son before He came to dwell in the human body -prove otherwise, if you have Bible proof. 2Cr 12:2 I knew 1492 a man 444 in 1722 Christ 5547 above 4253 0 fourteen 1180 years 2094 ago 4253, (whether 1535 in 1722 the body 4983, I cannot 3756 tell 1492 ; or whether 1535 out 1622 of the body 4983, I cannot 3756 tell 1492 : God 2316 knoweth 1492 😉 such an one 5108 caught up 726 to 2193 the third 5154 heaven 3772. Jam 5:12 But 1161 above 4253 all things 3956, my 3450 brethren 80, swear 3660 not 3361, neither 3383 by heaven 3772, neither 3383 by the earth 1093, neither 3383 by any 5100 other 243 oath 3727: but 1161 let 2277 0 your 5216 yea 3483 be 2277 yea 3483; and 2532 [your] nay 3756, nay 3756; lest 3363 ye fall 4098 into 1519 condemnation 5272. 1Pe 4:8 And 1161 above 4253 all things 3956 have 2192 fervent 1618 charity 26 among 1519 yourselves 1438: for 3754 charity 26 shall cover 2572 the multitude 4128 of sins 266. Jhn 17:5 And 2532 now 3568, O Father 3962, glorify 1392 thou 4771 me 3165 with 3844 thine own self 4572 with the glory 1391 which 3739 I had 2192 with 3844 thee 4671 before 4253 the world 2889 was 1511 . Jhn 17:24 Father 3962, I will 2309 that 2443 they also 2548, whom 3739 thou hast given 1325 me 3427, be 5600 with 3326 me 1700 where 3699 I 1473 am 1510 ; that 2443 they may behold 2334 my 1699 glory 1391, which 3739 thou hast given 1325 me 3427: for 3754 thou lovedst 25 me 3165 before 4253 the foundation 2602 of the world 2889. Eph 1:4 According as 2531 he hath chosen 1586 us 2248 in 1722 him 846 before 4253 the foundation 2602 of the world 2889, that we 2248 should be 1511 holy 40 and 2532 without blame 299 before 2714 him 846 in 1722 love 26: 2Ti 1:9 Who 3588 hath saved 4982 us 2248, and 2532 called 2564 [us] with an holy 40 calling 2821, not 3756 according to 2596 our 2257 works 2041, but 235 according to 2596 his own 2398 purpose 4286 and 2532 grace 5485, which 3588 was given 1325 us 2254 in 1722 Christ 5547 Jesus 2424 before 4253 the world began 5550 166, Tts 1:2 In 1909 hope 1680 of eternal 166 life 2222, which 3739 God 2316, that cannot lie 893, promised 1861 before 4253 the world 166 began 5550; 1Pe 1:20 Who verily 3303 was foreordained 4267 before 4253 the foundatio n 2602 of the world 2889, but 1161 was manifest 5319 in 1909 these last 2078 times 5550 for 1223 you 5209, Deu 25:6 And it shall be, [that] the firstborn 01060 which she beareth 03205 shall succeed 06965 in the name 08034 of his brother 0251 [which is] dead 04191 , that his name 08034 be not put out 04229 of Israel 03478. Deu 21:16 Then it shall be, when 03117 he maketh his sons 01121 to inherit 05157 [that] which he hath, [that] he may 03201 not make the son 01121 of the beloved 0157 firstborn 01069 before 06440 the son 01121 of the hated 08130 , [which is indeed] the firstborn 01060: 2Sa 3:2 And unto David 01732 were sons 01121 born 03205 03205 in Hebron 02275: and his firstborn 01060 was Amnon 0550, of Ahinoam 0293 the Jezreelitess 03159; 1Ch 5:1 Now the sons 01121 of Reuben 07205 the firstborn 01060 of Israel 03478, (for he [was] the firstborn 01060; but, forasmuch as he defiled 02490 his father's 01 bed 03326, his birthright 01062 was given 05414 unto the sons 01121 of Joseph 03130 the son 01121 of Israel 03478: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned 03187 after the birthright 01062. Job 18:13 It shall devour 0398 the strength 0905 of his skin 05785: [even] the firstborn 01060 of death 04194 shall devour 0398 his strength 0905. Psa 89:27 Also I will make 05414 him [my] firstborn 01060, higher 05945 than the kings 04428 of the earth 0776. Rom 8:29 For 3754 whom 3739 he did foreknow 4267 , he 4309 0 also 2532 did predestinate 4309 [to be] conformed 4832 to the image 1504 of his 846 Son 5207, that 1519 he 846 might be 1511 the firstborn 4416 among 1722 many 4183 brethren 80. Col 1:15 Who 3739 is 2076 the image 1504 of the invisible 517 God 2316, the firstborn 4416 of every 3956 creature 2937: Col 1:18 And 2532 he 846 is 2076 the head 2776 of the body 4983, the church 1577: who 3739 is 2076 the beginning 746, the firstborn 4416 from 1537 the dead 3498; that 2443 in 1722 all 3956 [things] he 846 might have 1096 the preeminence 4409 . Hbr 12:23 To the general assembly 3831 and 2532 church 1577 of the firstborn 4416, which are written 583 in 1722 heaven 3772, and 2532 to God 2316 the Judge 2923 of all 3956, and 2532 to the spirits 4151 of just men 1342 made perfect 5048 , Proteuo 1) to be first, hold the first place Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. Hbr 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee. The Messiah's Triumph and Kingdom (Acts 4:23-31) Why do the nations rage, And the people plot a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying, 3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces And cast away Their cords from us.” 4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The Lord shall hold them in derision. 5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, And distress them in His deep displeasure: 6 “Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion.” 7 “I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. 8 Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession. 9 You shall *break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.'” 10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings; Be instructed, you judges of the earth. 11 Serve the Lord with fear, And rejoice with trembling. 12 *Kiss the Son, lest *He be angry, And you perish in the way, When His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him. 1) only, only one, solitary, one a) only, unique, one b) solitary c) (TWOT) only begotten son yachiyd Jdg 11:34 And Jephthah 03316 came 0935 to Mizpeh 04709 unto his house 01004, and, behold, his daughter 01323 came out 03318 to meet 07125 him with timbrels 08596 and with dances 04246: and she [was his] only child 03173; beside her he had neither son 01121 nor 0176 daughter 01323. Psa 22:20 Deliver 05337 my soul 05315 from the sword 02719; my darling 03173 from the power 03027 of the dog 03611. Psa 35:17 Lord 0136, how long wilt thou look on 07200 ? rescue 07725 my soul 05315 from their destructions 07722, my darling 03173 from the lions 03715. Pro 4:3 For I was my father's 01 son 01121, tender 07390 and only 03173 [beloved] in the sight 06440 of my mother 0517. Psa 25:16 Turn 06437 thee unto me, and have mercy 02603 upon me; for I [am] desolate 03173 and afflicted 06041. Psa 68:6 God 0430 setteth 03427 the solitary 03173 in families 01004: he bringeth out 03318 those The Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03173&l=en Original Word dyxy from (03161) Transliterated WordYachiyd Phonetic Spelling yaw-kheed' KJV (12) – darling, 2; desolate, 1; only, 6; only child, 1; only son, 1; solitary, 1; NAS (12) – lonely, 2; one and child, 1; only, 5; only son, 4; Verse Count KJV NAS Genesis3 Judges1 Psalms4 Proverbs1 Jeremiah1 Amos1 Zechariah1 NAS Genesis3 Judges1 Psalms4 Proverbs1 Jeremiah1 Amos1 Zechariah1 Copyright Statement The Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon is Brown, Driver, Briggs, Gesenius Lexicon; this is keyed to the “Theological Word Book of the Old Testament.” These files are considered public domain. NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries. Copyright © 1981, 1998 by The Lockman Foundation. All rights reserved. http://www.lockman.org/. Bibliography Information Brown, Driver, Briggs and Gesenius. “Hebrew Lexicon entry for Yachiyd”. “The Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon”. . which are bound 0615 with chains 03574: but the rebellious 05637 dwell 07931 in a dry 06707 [land].

“I have to go, but 'pro' I go, I would ask you to prove to me from scripture that Jesus was the firstborn son of God from anyplace in scripture, for I cannot find it and it doesn't exist.”
Sir,
To clarify my question above, specifically prove to me from scripture that Jesus is, or was, the firstborn son of God prior to His birth from the womb of the virgin: or His 'only begotten', prior to His coming to dwell in a human body in the womb of the virgin.

Where does the Bible call Him God's son, in any category other than human?
If you have proof of that fact, I am interested in seeing the exact proof.
Thanks.

[vicalcabasa]

Quote (epistemaniac @ July 27 2005,22:37)

ahhhh…. so now you have the gift to see into men's hearts and to know whether or not they have “sincere attitudes”…. I see… well since the ability to see into belongs solely to God; (1 Ki 8:39 NKJV)  “”then hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and forgive, and act, and give to everyone according to all his ways, whose heart You know (for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men),” then your claim to be able to do what only God can do means that your problems are far more severe then any imaginings you have about how sincere my attitude is in seeking the truth….. more severe even then your denial of the trinity, you seem to be having some sort of identity crises…. if only God can see into the hearts of men, and you claim to see into my heart and know whether or not I am “sincere”…… well… can you see where this is leading?

well, i guess the last sentence was unnecessary. sorry

[Author]

Posts