Who is this Jesus?

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 23 2005,23:10)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2005,20:46) Quote (Guest @ July 23 2005,19:02) Quote (Guest @ July 23 2005,18:28) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2005,18:16) Quote (Guest @ July 23 2005,17:48) Quote (vicalcabasa @ July 23 2005,09:59) Hi I am redeemed, You're understanding of the verse Here o Israel, the LORD our GOD is ONE LORD,  is there are three divine beings in these phrase if are to look to its original hebrew wordings. How come the jews have never understood it that way afterall it was their native language.? never explained it that way. never teach it that way. even up to the time of jesus or up to now. Moses did understand it and many of those prophets did. Jesus explained all that was written in the prophets about Him to those on the road to Emmaeus after His resurrection(Uncle cleopas -and Aunt Miriam?). He chastised them for being slow to believe all that the prophets have written. It was written, and plain, just as the word of God is plain today, yet there are many unbelievers in it, and heretical twistings of it, there have always been unbelievers. But Israel, as a nation, who did not know the time of their visitation (of YHWH of hosts in flesh) is now blinded, as YHWH of hosts said, in Isaiah 6, until the fullness of the Gentiles is come in -to the promised New Birth- and taken out of this earth, to heaven. God dealt with Israel about their unbelief severely, and will finally restore them as a nation after the purging, during the great tribulation, which is after the Church is removed from the earth as Enoch was (and the Church never returns to this earth after they receive their regenerated bodies; it is Israel, the nation from Jacob's loins, that dwells on this earth to fulfill all the promises in their Adam bodies, after they are born again in spirit during the time of the great tribulation). Moses and the elders dined with the God of Israel. He could not look at the glory of His Presence, but saw His backside. Moses wrote Genesis for us, apparently from the records kept by Shem, from Noah -back to Adam, our first father- Abraham, and Abrahams seed; and in Genesis, Moses used the plural form for Elohim, the plural pronouns, the singular pronouns and so on, jsut as he did for Adam. When Jacob wrestled with the uncreated messenger, he understood that angel was YHWH of hosts, so did Hosea; 12:3-5; Hosea says that angel was YHWH Elohim of hosts, I AM THAT I AM is His memorial. David understood the promise of the Firstborn given, who was to come through him, in 1 Samuel 7; Job, Abraham's descendent through Esau, understood the Redeemer would be a human and stand upon the earth in the last days, and that he would see Him with his resurrected eyes. Abraham understood the promise of the Firstborn and His salvation through the Atonement, when he received it as a living oracle to act out, in Genesis 24. Jesus said Abraham rejoiced to see My Day, and He saw it and was glad. That Day Abraham saw is the prophecy given to him in the oracle of sacrificeing his 'only' son. Abraham understood that He was to be God in flesh, for he taught it to Job, who repeated the promise of the Redeemer to come in flesh. The Psalmist, David, understood it, who wrote of it in Psalm 118: 19 Open to me the gates of righteousness; I will go through them, And I will praise the Lord. 20 This is the gate of the Lord, Through which the righteous shall enter. 21 I will praise You, For You have answered me, And have become my salvation. 22 The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. 23 This was the Lord's doing; It is marvelous in our eyes. 24 This is the day the Lord has made; We will rejoice and be glad in it. 25 Save now, I pray, O Lord; O Lord, I pray, send now prosperity. 26 Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! We have blessed you from the house of the Lord. 27 God is the Lord, And He has given us light; Bind the sacrifice with cords to the horns of the altar. 28 You are my God, and I will praise You; You are my God, I will exalt You. As Isaac was bound to the altar with cords, without openming his mouth in protest, so the Son of God, YHWH in New human flesh, was bound to the altar, the cross and bvecame our Salvation -our YESHUA. Salvation is 'YESHUA', and the PSalmist wrote, God is our YESHUA. Abraham rejoiced to see My Day, and He saw it and was glad. Abraham named the mount that he took Isaac to; On This Mount, YHWH Shall be Seen. It is translated YHWH will provide, but it is 'YHWH will be seen' in the Hebrew (though will provide is in the meaning); that Mount is Mount Calvary, and the entire episode is the oracle of YWWH in flesh, as our YESHUA. Abraham rejoiced to see My Day, and He saw it and was glad. Hi, The scriptural teast for antichrist error is to teach that other than Jesus Christ came in the flesh [1Jn4.2]. You have fallen into this error. If Jesus Christ came in the flesh then Jesus Christ was not just the body of Jesus Christ. He came in that body which was his”tent” That means that he existed before he came in that body. And his name before he came then was not YHWH. That is the Lord of Hosts-his Father who he was with in the beginning and Who sent him. Nick, Jesus the Christ, YESHUA, The Messiah. 'YESHUA' is Salvation, in Hebrew Every spirit that does not confess that YESHUA the MESSIAH This posted without my posting it, when I struck certain keys. That has been happening and my posts have been going out before I finish them, and before I edit them. So there seems to be is somekind of virus in this! I was saying that the spirit of antichrist does not confess that YESHUA the Messiah 'is come' present tense, in flesh. Yeshua, our God, YHWH of hosts, 'is come' in human flesh. Nick, He is in hman flesh sitting on the throne in the created heaven, right now, glorified in that human body as the firstborn over all the earth, the position that He inherits as the Second Adam. you keep trying to deny the word of God that says that the YESHUA the Messiah, is YHWH of hosts in human flesh. He is not the Father in human flesh; He is the word the second PErson of YHWH of hosts in human flesh. The position of servant was willingly taken by Him so that He, our Creator in the second PErson of the YHWH could be our Kinsman-Red eemer, and He is now exalted in human flesh to the throne that He sat upon as YHWH of hosts pre-incarnation. Not so I, I say Jesus is the Messiah , the Christ and not the one who sent him who is YHWH, his Father. The mortal flesh of Jesus was perishable like ours and not any more perfect than ours. He received a new heavenly body, which is imperishable, when his natural was sown and his spiritual was raised as 1 Cor 15 says. His new body is described in Daniel and Revelation.That is our hope too. Yes he is now seated in the heavenlies- WITH HIS FATHER GOD Surprisingly you make no note about the missing “person” on the throne. Where is the three when you need them?Where is the much touted equality in this anomaly? Perhaps the Spirit is “Of God” quote Nick; “The mortal flesh of Jesus was perishable like ours and not any more perfect than ours. He received a new heavenly body, which is imperishable, when his natural was sown and his spiritual was raised as 1 Cor 15 says.” Nick, you are in great doctrinal heresy. Jesus' flesh was not mortal. Satan had nothing in Him. In Him was no sin. In Him was no unclean thing. His flesh could not perish. In three days and nights it could not see a bit of bacterial corruption. He was not born from Adam’s seed, nor was Adam His father, biologically. He is the second Man, the living Spirit, who is YHWH of hosts, from heaven -and Origen quoted that passage as so in 200 AD, it is the correct rendering and the biblical rendering in agreement with the doctrine of Christ, that one must abide in if He will inherit eternal life. He is legally descended from Adam through the womb of Mary, but He is the New Creation human being body, which body was prepared in the womb of the virgin as the promised “Seed'. And through the womb of Mary and the line of Joseph (both of whose genealogies go back to David, one through Nathan, one through Solomon), He is the firstborn of them both, in the legal sense, making Him the heir of the throne of David, which is the throne of Firstborn over the earth, the promised Seed of the woman of Genesis 3:15. As God, He has no Father, only a Fellow, a companion, an equal, and it is so from eternity, For God calls Him His equal. You are saying that there was a union of God and Mary, and that is blasphemy, itself. The body of the Israel-Man is the same body that YHWH of hosts came incarnate to inhabit forever, in. I put the antichrist test to you, of the gnostic Jesus, and you failed, for your Jesus is not YESHUA, the Messiah, in flesh. The name Jesus is the same as Yehoshua, ‘YESHUA‘, and in Hebrew, is ‘Salvation‘. Our God has become our YESHUA, says David, in Psalm 118, when He was bound to the altar on the Day of Atonement that YHWH has made, that Abraham saw and rejoiced in, prophetically, when He said, in Genesis 22, On this Mount (Mount Calvary) YHWH shall be seen! He is forever in His ISRAEL human body, and is glorified, as Adam was in the beginning, when the Elohim made Him and crowned him with His glory, to be a temple for the Presence of His glory to inhabit, before Adam died spiritually and his temple became empty of the Presence and he became humiliated in his being. Zec 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man [that is] my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. The YHWH of hosts incarnate is not an Adamkind, but the Firstborn and only begotten of the Father, the Israelkind: And only the Israel-kind will have His glory inhabiting Him. If we are not born of the spirit in the image of the New Man, the Israel-kind, then we will be cast aways in the resurrection, for the Presence of the Glory of the invisible God will not inhabit the cursed, defiled clay that Adam is formed from. Awake,    [05782]    `uwr   O sword,  [02719]    chereb   against my shepherd,  [07462]    ra`ah   and against the man  [01397]    geber   [that is] my fellow,  [05997]    `amiyth   saith    [05002]    n@'um   the LORD  [03068]    Y@hovah   of hosts:  [06635]    tsaba'   smite    [05221]    nakah   the shepherd,  [07462]    ra`ah   and the sheep  [06629]    tso'n   shall be scattered:  [06327]    puwts   and I will turn  [07725]    shuwb   mine hand  [03027]    yad   upon the little ones.  [06819]    tsa`ar

Hi IAR,
So sin pertains to the “Flesh” only-the outer man?

So why did Jesus tell the disciples it was instead hearts that needed cleaning?

Matt 15.17
“Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is eliminated? But the things that proceed from the mouth come from the heart and those defile a man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man”

He seemed instead to say it was the inner man, the inner vessel that needed cleansing

Matt 23.25
“Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites. For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also”

If Jesus did not die ,as scripture says he did but his body did not undergo corruption, then he was not resurrected either. If he did not die then we cannot be baptised into his death as scripture says we should do. If he did not die then we too cannot be resurrected if we die as he is the “firstborn from the dead”. Now that is starting to look like heresy to me.

To find we are disagreement with you is not evidence of doctrinal heresy. You do not know yet who God is my friend.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 24 2005,02:13)

Quote (t8 @ July 24 2005,01:04) Quote (Guest @ July 24 2005,02:29) Hello t8, The Creator named our race “ADAM”;, and made us one 'echad' and the same 'one', echad, is what YHWH the Elohim of Israel, the ONE 'ECHAD' YHWH, is.. He named the 'New Man' Israel (Isaiah 49, please) and all who are born again, when they repent and believe, by His Spirit regenerating the dead Adam spirit (who will then be resurrected in His New Man image and glorified). Gen 5:1 This [is] the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;   Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. Thanks for your post. Indeed he named them 'Adam'. Thanks for pointing that out. Adam (120) Mankind Adam (121) The first human. However this doesn't prove a Trinity to me. Sure there are many gods (more than 1 theos). Men, angels, and Christ are all called 'theos' and 'elohim'. But there is one God (original) and many who share his nature (gods) just as there is 1 Adam (121) and many who share his nature (120). That is why Christ is also called the Son. He came from God. So just as there is 1 man Adam (120 – the first human), there is 1 God (the first/original God). The others are images and not the source. If we deny that the Father is the ONE TRUE GOD and Jesus is the image of God, we deny many revelations and writings in the New Testament. Do we not live in a better covenant today. If we rely on the revelations of the OT only, we will miss out on what God has done through his son and church and the light that has come into the world when Christ came. Hello t8, To continue on, Adam was made in the image and likeness of God. Adam was made 'echad' says Malachi because 'He sought a elohim seed'. Adam is dead and his kingdom is cursed and corrupted. Adam is not a elohim seed, now, for the glory is departed, but was created for that purpose; and the Redemption is precisely to “Redeem Back” the lost sons, and bring many sons 'to glory'. The New man, the Israel-kind- is the express image of His Person, for the Adam was made from the dust of this earth, earthy, but the Second Adam was the YHWH from heaven, and when Elohim formed the body for the Adam, He breathed into him and he became a living soul. But the New Man was not breathed into to become a living soul, for He was 'THE life giving Spirit', from above, inhabiting human flesh. When Elohim, the YHWH, made Adam and gave him dominion over this earth, He crowned him with His glory. Genesis 1:26-28; and Psalm 8. Adam was a temple for the habitation of the Presence of His glory to inhabit, in the beginning; but when Adam ate the evil fruit, it corrupted his being, and we, who were in his loins as seed (for we were all created in Adam in the beginning, and written in the Book of Life to have being, before we ever came forth from the loins of Adam), died to that Presence of His glory, also, for we became defiled as to our being from the moment the father of us ate the evil fruit. But the Creator wanted to inhabit our being, with we being elohim seed, and He had made a plan for our Redemption. The Lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world, and before we ever came into being, our Redemption (for whosoever will) was established through the New Man, who was to be the YHWH of hosts -in the Person of the LOGOS, made flesh. When God chose Abraham to be the one through which the blessing of the New Man would come, He began His oracle program for the world to learn of His plan of redemption, and all that YHWH gave to Abraham, as oracles, and to Jacob and his descendents, were about that Redemption for the Adam, in the image of the New Man, the Israel-kind. the temple speaks of the redemption of the Adam, and the separation the Adam has in the first death. The Presence of His glory dwelt in the Holy of Holies and no one could enter that place but once a year, on the day of atonement, and they must be washed, and put on holy garments, and be cleansed from sins of omission and co-mission; if they were unclean in any way, they died when they entered the Presence behind the veil. That Holy of Holies had in it the Ark of the Covenant, which was made of wood, overlaid with gold, and crowned with gold; and a seat of solid gold upon which the blood of atonement was sprinkled and accepted -or not- which was a type of the sprinkling to come, on the True 'Day that YHWH has made'. That Mercy Seat, upon which the blood was sprinkled, represented the New Man body of the LORD Jesus Christ, YHWH of hosts incarnate, and His body, that New Man, had the blood sprinkled upon it, the Day that He gave His 'soul' as our atonement, after tasting the first death upon the cross, while He hung there, and that death is the separation from the Presence of His glory. When He cried out; “It is finished” and gave up the spirit and died, the veil in the temple that represented our separation was split from top to bottom, and it signed that the first death is ended forever that began the day Adam ate the fruit. His body, the New Man -Israel-kind- body without spot or blemish, was our True Mercy Seat, and His blood shed upon the True altar of sacrifice, the cross, was our final, once for all atonement for the defilement of our soul that began the day Adam ate. But though the blood He shed cleanses our being, our soul, (for our soul that will always exist), A new Temple within must be formed (YHWH formed our spirit within us for His habitation), for the old temple is defiled. So we must be born again in His image; the image of the Israel-kind, and our clay bodies, which cannot be cleansed (being clay), must be regenerated, made new from the elements that He first formed, at the resurrection of the body, which is called the adoption. After our body is regenerated, He will glorify our being with the Presence of His glory that he first  created us for, and we will forever shine with the Presence that is His glory -only if we are born again, in Him, that is. But the glory of the latter temple is to be greater than the glory of the first temple (of man), for the Last Adam is the LIFE GIVING Spirit, from above, and He gives us of His spirit, when we are regenerated, which is the end of the first death, and when we are born again we never taste death, for He is in us in a measure from the moment that we repent and call upon His name for 'yeshua' -salvation. When Elohim made Adam 'one', with a remnant of the spirit, it was a type of the New Man who makes us 'one' with him, in His 'Israel-kind- humanity, by the blood from His side shed for our birth in His image. He is from above, and He gives us His New Man life, and we will never die if we call upon His name for “YESHUA” Salvation. Isa 12:1 And in that day thou shalt say, O LORD, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is turned away, and thou comfortedst me.   Isa 12:2 Behold, God [is] my salvation [YESHUA]'; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH [is] my strength and [my] song; he also is b ecome my salvation [HE IS BECOME MY YESHUA].   Isa 12:3 Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation [ draw water from the wells of YESHUA].   Isa 12:4 And in that day shall ye say, Praise the LORD, call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted.   Isa 12:5 Sing unto the LORD; for he hath done excellent things: this [is] known in all the earth.   Isa 12:6 Cry out and shout, thou inhabitant of Zion: for great [is] the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee.

Hi,
The lamb of God was not slain from the foundation of the world.
That is a misreading of scripture.

Rev 13.8
” All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain”
cf
Rev 17.8f
“.. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of Life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast..”
cf
Rev 21.27
“and nothing unclean , and no one who practises abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of Life”

It should be plain that what was written in the Book is what was from the foundation of the World and not the slaying of the Lamb.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 24 2005,04:47)

Quote (Guest @ July 24 2005,04:40) Quote (Cubes @ July 24 2005,03:18) The above verse of of Eph 1:9 differentiates Christ from the Father:  His will, Himself as speaking to the Father, YHWH;  HE gathers together in ONE ALL THINGS in CHRIST…in HIM. So I see this case made in the scriptures, but not the case that you make.  There is no evidence that YHWH is a group.  There is evidence that all things come from YHWH and shall be contained as one in Christ Jesus to YHWH. Hello Cube, the Father named the whole family Adam, and the New family 'Israel'. Adam named all the animals that He was given dominion of, But The Father named the Adam, and YHWH of hosts, in the second Person, named Jacob, Israel, His new Man name that the Father names Him, as a human being, His YHWH name is YESHUA, His human being name is Israel. Only Israel inherits the kingdom and gets the glory indwelling. We must be born again to be in the heavenly family that will be glorified with His Presence of glory indwelling. The Redemption of the creation is by the YHWH of hosts, in the  second Person, in His human sacrifice, and when He regenerates the entire creation, then he returns it to the Father for His glroy to inhabit as He did in His glory in the beginning, and then, it is said; “God will be all in all”. He is the Redeemer who brings back -from the separation- those who were first created for the Presence of His glory to inhabit, and also brings back to the Presence, the defiled creation, and regenerates it all, both heaven and earth, by melting the elements and reforming them, after the thousand year reign; and then, He turns it back to the Father, from Whom He came, for the purpose of Redemption. To Redeem is to buy back. The last state of the creation is more glorious than the beginning, for the glory that we (those who are born again) shall have in the New Man's image is more glorious than the glory that Adam had, in the beginning, for Adam is from beneath, the New Man is the YHWH from heaven, and when we bear the image of the 'Israel' who was YHWH incarnate, then by adoption, the glory that shall be revealed in we who are born again shall shine like the sun -in some.. YHWH is the Being that inhabitsd eternity as the I AM THAT I AM; HE just is! the eternally self existent One. The One that YHWH the Elohim is is the same kind of one that all mankind is. Elohim made Adam one, not three billion billion billions -to the whatever power that there shall be. But the YHWH, who is not made, is three Persons, and the Father is never seen, has never been seen, and never shall be seen. The Second person, the LOGOS, the WORD, came incarnate, and as YHWH of hosts incarnate, He is the Firstborn ofver all creation, for He purchased back to the Father that which was lost for His habitation. Look; the Son in His humanity went to the cross to prepare us a habitation fit for the Presence of the Father to inhabit as He did in the beginning. In My Father's house (the created heaven) are many dwelling places; I go [to the cross] to prepare a 'place' for you. we were dwelling places for the Presence of His glory, in the beginning, when we were made from the dust, breathed into, and with a spirit formed within us, and made a being fit for the habitation of the Presence of the glory to indwell. That is what we lost in the fall, and that is what the New Man came to Redeem us back to the Father for; to be vessels fit for His holy habitation. I meant not three billion billion billions as to separate kinds. We are all 'one' 'Adam', though we are billions and billions to whatever power of persons in the one Adam. YHWH of hosts is revealed as only three Persons; but He is ONE, not 'three kinds' of beings, and just as 'Adam is one', 'He is ONE'. and that one, echad, is a repetition of itself, as an echo, in that meaning.

Sorry IAR,

But you seemed to have missed my post.

Where exactly does the bible say God is three persons?

By “second person” do you mean second in authority or something else? I agree the Father is greater than the Son as Jesus said so. So you agree the equality idea is a myth?

Now Jesus said to Phillip in Jn 14.9

“He who has seen me has seen the Father”
and
“I am in the Father and the Father is in me”

How does this go with your claim that the “second person, the Logos, the Word, came incarnate”. I agree with the partaking of flesh of the Son of God. Jesus seems to disagree with you however. He does not seem to say only the “second person “came. He seems to say the Father came as well and could be “seen” in him too?

So did both the “first” and the “second” “persons” come or not? Or in some way are they not really separate persons but equivalent parts of the same being?

I prefer the words of Jesus. And the words of John and Paul and Peter and John the baptist who identified the Son of God in flesh.
And the Holy Spirit said through Paul
” God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself”

God is not three persons. That is added to scripture.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 23 2005,23:22)

Quote (Cubes @ July 23 2005,22:54) Quote (Guest @ July 23 2005,18:11) Quote (vicalcabasa @ July 23 2005,10:05) Quote (Cubes @ July 22 2005,20:19) You don't count your spirit as another person, do you?  Do people relate to your spirit in one way and to you in another way? hi cubes, I think IAR should really answer this question. I thought I had made plain the sense. Adam is created in the image and likeness of God (but is now a dead to God temple). Adam is a living soul, with a spirit (made for the habitation of his Presence of glory) and inhabiting a human body of clay. Adam is the name of the entire race of human beings created as a triune being in the beginning. Hi IAR: Sorry, I still don't get how that relates to your spirit and how others perceive you? We know that we are the children of God, and can tell who is our brethren, because of the Spirit of God in us.  We know that the Spirit doesn't come from a 3rd person but that the Spirit of Truth and adoption comes from the Father. Who do you say the Holy Spirit comes from?  Father, Son or Holy Spirit?  And please if possible, identify which person of your God is intended.   Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. If you will go back and read what I posted, you'l see that I used only the Scripture to show that Adam is One being, many persons. Adam does not have life in Himself, but was to live forever by eating of the tree of life. The Elohim YHWH of hosts, who is One YHWH, is one being, three Persons. So I am not my father nor my mother, as Adam. I am not you, as  Adam. THe Father is not the LOGOS, as  YHWH of hosts, nor is the Spirit the Son, nor is the Spirit the LOGOS, nor is the Holy Spirit the unapproachable light, who is Spirit. Only the LOGOS has a visible form, but, in Scripture, the Spirit has appeared in a form, Genesis 15, with the LOGOS, who is the burning torch, as the smoking oven, who is the Holy Spirit, and at the baptism of consecration of YHWH of hosts incarnate, YESHUA the Messiah, when He appeared as a dove -and as the pillars of fire upon the saints at Pentecost. So who did Moses and the elders dine with, when they saw and ate with the God of Israel? -Not with the Father; and the God of Israel is YHWH of hosts, whom they dined with, and is the True God, whom they saw; but they did not see the Father.

Hi IAR,
So only the Logos has a visible form. What is that? A body? But the Logos only partook of flesh when he was born. So did the Logos have a visible form prior to partaking of flesh?

Was his body seen on earth his heavenly imperishable form? Why then was it damaged if it was imperishable?

Why did he get hungry and thirsty and have to eat and drink like us?

So Jesus was just consecrated at his baptism? Where is this written?

Scripture says when we are resurrected we will be like the man from heaven [as to our bodies]. That is at the start of the millenial kingdom and is why our bodies can last 1000 yrs surely.

“The Lord IS the Spirit”

[vicalcabasa]

Quote (Cubes @ July 23 2005,22:54)

Quote (Guest @ July 23 2005,18:11) Quote (vicalcabasa @ July 23 2005,10:05) Quote (Cubes @ July 22 2005,20:19) You don't count your spirit as another person, do you?  Do people relate to your spirit in one way and to you in another way? hi cubes, I think IAR should really answer this question. I thought I had made plain the sense. Adam is created in the image and likeness of God (but is now a dead to God temple). Adam is a living soul, with a spirit (made for the habitation of his Presence of glory) and inhabiting a human body of clay. Adam is the name of the entire race of human beings created as a triune being in the beginning. Hi IAR: Sorry, I still don't get how that relates to your spirit and how others perceive you?

And Cubes…

If we apply the same question to the Word of God. If I may

You don't count your WORD as another person, do you?  Do people relate to your WORD in one way and to you in another way?

The simple answer of course is both NO.
So what do we have here?

We have one God, One Person Speaking.

Just one and only God speaking all things into existence.

Isn’t that how John 1 said it about the LOGOS of God?

That all things were created through him?

Remember Genesis 1?

And GOD SAID let there be …..

So there is no triune mystery in the being of god.

HE came from God and returned to God just as what the bible said.

[vicalcabasa]

So the bible is right!

One God and Father of all

One Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

and One Spirit united .

but not the 3 in 1 variety.

[NickHassan]

Quote (vicalcabasa @ July 24 2005,17:04)

Quote (Cubes @ July 23 2005,22:54) Quote (Guest @ July 23 2005,18:11) Quote (vicalcabasa @ July 23 2005,10:05) Quote (Cubes @ July 22 2005,20:19) You don't count your spirit as another person, do you?  Do people relate to your spirit in one way and to you in another way? hi cubes, I think IAR should really answer this question. I thought I had made plain the sense. Adam is created in the image and likeness of God (but is now a dead to God temple). Adam is a living soul, with a spirit (made for the habitation of his Presence of glory) and inhabiting a human body of clay. Adam is the name of the entire race of human beings created as a triune being in the beginning. Hi IAR: Sorry, I still don't get how that relates to your spirit and how others perceive you? And Cubes… If we apply the same question to the Word of God. If I may You don't count your WORD as another person, do you?  Do people relate to your WORD in one way and to you in another way? The simple answer of course is both NO. So what do we have here? We have one God, One Person Speaking. Just one and only God speaking all things into existence. Isn’t that how John 1 said it about the LOGOS of God? That all things were created through him? Remember Genesis 1? And GOD SAID let there be ….. So there is no triune mystery in the being of god. HE came from God and returned to God just as what the bible said.

Hi v,
A word is spoken into being. It is not the speaker itself or the speaker of itself. It comes from that speaker who precedes it in being. It is less than the speaker from which it comes.It serves the speaker.

God is the speaker, the original being.The Word is OF God. The Word is “only begotten” being unique and derived solely from God and of divine nature. No other being but God was involved when the Son was begotten unlike all of creation which came from God through him. The Word was given life in itself so is another being.

The Word was with God in the beginning.

A word is more than breath. We are of the breath of God [Gen 2.7]but the Son is the Word of life.[1Jn1]Eternal Life is in the Son and we are reborn into him by water and the Spirit and share that life[1Jn5]

2Jn2
” for the sake of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever. Grace, mercy and peace will be with us, from God the Father
and
from Jesus Christ, the Son of God, in truth and love”

 Whatever comes to us from God comes through the Son,
so also comes from the Son.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 23 2005,18:06)

Quote (Guest @ July 23 2005,17:48) Quote (vicalcabasa @ July 23 2005,09:59) Hi I am redeemed, You're understanding of the verse Here o Israel, the LORD our GOD is ONE LORD,  is there are three divine beings in these phrase if are to look to its original hebrew wordings. How come the jews have never understood it that way afterall it was their native language.? never explained it that way. never teach it that way. even up to the time of jesus or up to now. Moses did understand it and many of those prophets did. Jesus explained all that was written in the prophets about Him to those on the road to Emmaeus after His resurrection(Uncle cleopas -and Aunt Miriam?). He chastised them for being slow to believe all that the prophets have written. It was written, and plain, just as the word of God is plain today, yet there are many unbelievers in it, and heretical twistings of it, there have always been unbelievers. But Israel, as a nation, who did not know the time of their visitation (of YHWH of hosts in flesh) is now blinded, as YHWH of hosts said, in Isaiah 6, until the fullness of the Gentiles is come in -to the promised New Birth- and taken out of this earth, to heaven. God dealt with Israel about their unbelief severely, and will finally restore them as a nation after the purging, during the great tribulation, which is after the Church is removed from the earth as Enoch was (and the Church never returns to this earth after they receive their regenerated bodies; it is Israel, the nation from Jacob's loins, that dwells on this earth to fulfill all the promises in their Adam bodies, after they are born again in spirit during the time of the great tribulation). Moses and the elders dined with the God of Israel. He could not look at the glory of His Presence, but saw His backside. Moses wrote Genesis for us, apparently from the records kept by Shem, from Noah -back to Adam, our first father- Abraham, and Abrahams seed; and in Genesis, Moses used the plural form for Elohim, the plural pronouns, the singular pronouns and so on, jsut as he did for Adam. When Jacob wrestled with the uncreated messenger, he understood that angel was YHWH of hosts, so did Hosea; 12:3-5; Hosea says that angel was YHWH Elohim of hosts, I AM THAT I AM is His memorial. David understood the promise of the Firstborn given, who was to come through him, in 1 Samuel 7; Job, Abraham's descendent through Esau, understood the Redeemer would be a human and stand upon the earth in the last days, and that he would see Him with his resurrected eyes. Abraham understood the promise of the Firstborn and His salvation through the Atonement, when he received it as a living oracle to act out, in Genesis 24. Jesus said Abraham rejoiced to see My Day, and He saw it and was glad. That Day Abraham saw is the prophecy given to him in the oracle of sacrificeing his 'only' son. Abraham understood that He was to be God in flesh, for he taught it to Job, who repeated the promise of the Redeemer to come in flesh. The Psalmist, David, understood it, who wrote of it in Psalm 118: 19 Open to me the gates of righteousness; I will go through them, And I will praise the Lord. 20 This is the gate of the Lord, Through which the righteous shall enter. 21 I will praise You, For You have answered me, And have become my salvation. 22 The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. 23 This was the Lord's doing; It is marvelous in our eyes. 24 This is the day the Lord has made; We will rejoice and be glad in it. 25 Save now, I pray, O Lord; O Lord, I pray, send now prosperity. 26 Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! We have blessed you from the house of the Lord. 27 God is the Lord, And He has given us light; Bind the sacrifice with cords to the horns of the altar. 28 You are my God, and I will praise You; You are my God, I will exalt You. As Isaac was bound to the altar with cords, without openming his mouth in protest, so the Son of God, YHWH in New human flesh, was bound to the altar, the cross and bvecame our Salvation -our YESHUA. Salvation is 'YESHUA', and the PSalmist wrote, God is our YESHUA. Abraham rejoiced to see My Day, and He saw it and was glad. Abraham named the mount that he took Isaac to; On This Mount, YHWH Shall be Seen. It is translated YHWH will provide, but it is 'YHWH will be seen' in the Hebrew (though will provide is in the meaning); that Mount is Mount Calvary, and the entire episode is the oracle of YWWH in flesh, as our YESHUA. Abraham rejoiced to see My Day, and He saw it and was glad. I'm sorry, typos! David understood the promise of the Firstborn in 2 Samuel 7. I typed without checking my scriptures, trying to get this out fast, as I have duties to attend. Abraham was given the living oracle of YHWH of hosts in flesh as our Atonement in Genesis 22; Josephus says Job was Jobab, second chief of Edom, and Job -as a descendant of Abraham, spoke of his faith in his Redeemer, who would 'stand upon the earth' (in flesh) and his resurrected eyes would see Him in the latter days; Job 19:24-29; Moses was given several encounters with YHWH of hosts, in the second Person and the Third. And when He saw the Glory of His Presence, that was not the same that He dined with, on the mount with Aaron and the seventy elders, when they saw the Elohim of Israel; Exodus 24:9-11. In Genesis 15, (17,18) Abraham saw -while in the induced trance- the Two Persons of YHWH, but not the Father, pass between the cut covenant pieces, Who ratified the promise of the land covenant to Abraham and his descendents (which land promise is still in effect to the descendents of Jacob and will be fullfilled). And so on and so forth: YHWH of hosts has appeared as a multiplicity from the beginning, and so He told Israel, who knew that He had appeared as such; Hear o Israel, YHWH thy Elohim, is ONE YHWH. They also had the word that told them that Adam was 'one', and Adam is multiplied on the face of the earth. They were also told there is no other God beside Him, none before Him and none after Him, that He is God alone -and so on and so forth.

Hi ,
So you presume it is the Son who dealt with Moses because no man has seen God? But the Word of God does not say so. That is not of faith but presumption then?

God is not a multiplicity. God is one.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
If your hand reached out when you willed it to would you be surprised? If your willed your eyes to open and they did you would know they were truly part of you.

So if the Son of God has never been separate from God and does not have life in himself then his obedience to the will of the Father is of no significance. It is what would be expected.

Phil 2.8
” And being found in appearance as a man he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross”

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 23 2005,17:18)

Quote (vicalcabasa @ July 23 2005,09:49) Quote (Guest @ July 22 2005,20:41) Please note: YHWH of hosts is sent by YHWH of hosts, and YHWH of hosts is coming to dwell in your midst (in Jerusalem); sent by YHWH of hosts. If you deny this, then are you claiming a created angel is YHWH of hosts, sent by YHWH of hosts? So you have two Persons, YHWH of hosts, one sent, the other sends. One comes, the other does not come. hi, so one YWHW is Jesus pre incarnate. so how did YWHW of Host (JESUS pre-incarnate) came into being? can you tell. Hello, The word of God tells us that YHWH, the Elohim of Israel, who is ONE YHWH, is the eternally self existent One. That is the meaning of the memorial (name) 'YHWH', 'I AM THAT I AM'. -He just WAS, IS, AND SHALL COME. He never had a beginning (as Hebrews 7 shows in the typology of using Melchezedek precisely to type the Son of God; without beginning of days…without “father”, without 'mother'). He is the fellow of God, Says God, who came to inhabit that New Man prepared human body in the virgin's womb. The 'fellow' of God is His equal; and He became the fellow of humankind, and anointed as a human, after He became the fellow of humans, above every name that is named in heaven and in earth, as human being 'Firstborn' in that human being body. HE humbled Himself, and came from heaven where He sat upon His throne of glory, pre-incarnation (Isaiah 6; John 123:37-41), and left it to humble Himself to be a 'servant' (ISaiah 49), to Redeem His 'fellows' -His Kinsmen- of flesh (the Adam-kind); and to ransom the kingdom Adamkind was given and lost; but in His humankind body, He had life in Himself, for He was the life-giving Spirit from heaven in that human being body; the Adamkind did not have and does not have life in 'them', but needed to eat the fruit of the tree of life to live forever, before the fall. “The first man is earthy, of the earth, the second man is the YHWH from heaven.” -one of your posters said that is not what the original said, but I checked, and the original most emphatically stated that the second man is the Lord, meaning the YHWH, from heaven. The Vulgate in 400 AD said it that way, which I posted, and I found that Origen, who was not an orthodox Believer, even said it that way, in 200 AD, so any claim that it is not the original is false and a false text, a heresy. His goings forth have been from everlasting -from eternity- says God; and only God inhabits eternity; all other creatures whom He created have their dwelling place created for them to inhabit; but eternity has no beginning, for God inhabits eternity, and God has no beginning; and from eternity, YHWH of hosts has gone forth; and in His goings forth He has gone forth as YHWH of hosts who sat upon His throne of glory -a created throne in the created heaven, and rode the created heavens by His name JAH!; and when He came forth from His created heaven, at times, He came forth as Messenger of YHWH, uncreated, which was going forth without His throne of glory, to appear to men for His purposes. One appearance was to Jacob, when He wrestled with him and Jacob got the blessing and was renamed with the name of the New Man creation (as a sign), who will inherit the kingdom of God -this earth- and that name as the Firstborn who inherits this kingdom and remakes it fit for the habitation of the Presence of the glory to inhabit it, again, is 'Israel'.. There are two kinds of human being bodies created by God; Adam, and Israel. We all have our beginning in Adam; but the New Man had no beginning, but came to inhabit the New Man human body prepared for Him by His Spirit (prepared in the womb of the virgin), forever. For us (Adamkind), to inherit the kingdom that He purchased with His New Man blood, we must repent and be born again in His image, which is the regeneration of our spirit -which is dead, in Adam -as to the Presence of the glory of the Creator inhabiting it, and that is the only way that we, created in Adam to be His habitation for His Presence of glory to inhabit in our spirit and outshine in our being, will ever have eternal life and inherit the kingdom prepared -in the beginning- for Adam. He will regenerate this entire creation after the thousand year reign, and only those who are regenerated will inherit it, for Adam lost it forever, but Adam will exist forever as a cast away -if not born again in His israel image. That is the message of the word of God as revealed in the word: creation, by Whom; the purpose of it; the fall; the Redemption, by Whom -and how; the regeneration; and eternity furure. The nation from Abraham through Isaac and Jacob, named with His New Man name, 'Israel', was a living oracle of all these things, and they got the sign of the adoption in their naming, and in their law, with the temple, the furnishings of it, the clothing of the priests, and the feasts; which all began  with circumcision, the renaming, the Passover Lamb, the Sabbath Rest -His Day that begins in each Believer when they repent from dead works and receive His finished work for their salvation; and all as living oracles of His PErson and work to Redeem.

Hi,
So the Word of God became incarnate? So that means he came to live in a body on earth.

So he did not have a heavenly body then but was as spirit prior to his incarnation? I agree with that.

The “incarnation” was of the Son of God sent by God and not God himself? I agree with that.

Or was the “incarnation” just the placement of the Son within a given body?

Was it a perfect new heavenly body he was then given or a perishable one like ours? It perished did it not?

So if he did not have a body prior to his incarnation then how come some say he always had a visible form and this came to earth and was seen prior to his incarnation? Not possible if he had no body then do you agree?

Or was he like to us and that body was part of his being derived from Mary and the Father by the Spirit? I agree with that.He was Son OF Man.

[Anonymous]

Quote (vicalcabasa @ July 24 2005,17:04)

You don't count your WORD as another person, do you?  Do people relate to your WORD in one way and to you in another way? The simple answer of course is both NO. So what do we have here? We have one God, One Person Speaking. Just one and only God speaking all things into existence. Isn’t that how John 1 said it about the LOGOS of God? That all things were created through him? Remember Genesis 1? And GOD SAID let there be ….. So there is no triune mystery in the being of god. HE came from God and returned to God just as what the bible said.

John 1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2He was with God in the beginning.

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

4In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

Use of personal pronouns = a person.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 24 2005,23:29)

Quote (vicalcabasa @ July 24 2005,17:04) You don't count your WORD as another person, do you?  Do people relate to your WORD in one way and to you in another way? The simple answer of course is both NO. So what do we have here? We have one God, One Person Speaking. Just one and only God speaking all things into existence. Isn’t that how John 1 said it about the LOGOS of God? That all things were created through him? Remember Genesis 1? And GOD SAID let there be ….. So there is no triune mystery in the being of god. HE came from God and returned to God just as what the bible said. John 1 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. Use of personal pronouns = a person.

Hi,
John also used personal pronouns for the Spirit of God who is not a separate person but is the Spirit of God.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 22 2005,20:41)

Quote (Cubes @ July 22 2005,20:19) Quote (Guest @ July 22 2005,04:30) Actually, He didn't complete his sentence Hello, You got the First Person and the Second Person down real well; but You left the third Person out! From the Father, through the WORD -who came to inhabit human flesh as the Son of God (who had no beginning, no genealogy, no Father, no mother, as YHWH of hosts, the Word of God) And  By the Spirit. Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent. By, by by, His Spirit. Three in One -Israel’s “YHWH ‘our’ Elohim, who is One YHWH”. He was not named Jesus Christ in His Pre-incarnation, for He was the Word of the LORD who framed the heavens by His spirit. Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Acts 17: 28 “For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.” Hi IAR: If you follow the trail in the OT and NT, you'll find that “GOD” leads to the Father only, one individual.  It is not to say that Jesus is not the Mighty God of John 1:1 who is with the Almighty and Most High of GOD of all. Now whatever God does, he does by his Spirit through Christ. And whatever Christ does, he does by the Spirit of God his Father, to the glory of the Father.   The Father gives his Spirit to those that are his, by which his will is accomplished.  And Christ is God's. You don't count your spirit as another person, do you?  Do people relate to your spirit in one way and to you in another way? Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. When Jesus says, “God,” he means his God and Father and the Apostles understood him to mean that. Hello Cube, Hello Cube, If you wil turn to Zechariah 2, you will please note that One Person, who is identifying Himself as YHWH of hosts says that YHWH of hosts sent Him. “8 For thus says the Lord of hosts: “He sent Me after glory, to the nations which plunder you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye. 9 For surely I will shake My hand against them, and they shall become spoil for their servants. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me. 10 “Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion! For behold, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” says the Lord. 11 “Many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and they shall become My people. And I will dwell in your midst. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me to you. 12 And the Lord will take possession of Judah as His inheritance in the Holy Land, and will again choose Jerusalem. 13 Be silent, all flesh, before the Lord, for He is aroused from His holy habitation!” Please note: YHWH of hosts is sent by YHWH of hosts, and YHWH of hosts is coming to dwell in your midst (in Jerusalem); sent by YHWH of hosts. If you deny this, then are you claiming a created angel is YHWH of hosts, sent by YHWH of hosts? So you have two Persons, YHWH of hosts, one sent, the other sends. One comes, the other does not come.

O what a tangled web we weave – all in defense of a false doctrine of trinity.

God is One. YHWH is His descriptive name. Jesus Christ is his Son, just as he claimed.
We do not call him a liar.Do you?

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 22 2005,20:58)

I agree Redeemed: Isaiah 24   1Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.   2And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.   3The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.   4The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.   5The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.   6Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.   7The new wine mourneth, the vine languisheth, all the merryhearted do sigh.   8The mirth of tabrets ceaseth, the noise of them that rejoice endeth, the joy of the harp ceaseth.   9They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.   10The city of confusion is broken down: every house is shut up, that no man may come in.   11There is a crying for wine in the streets; all joy is darkened, the mirth of the land is gone.   12In the city is left desolation, and the gate is smitten with destruction.   13When thus it shall be in the midst of the land among the people, there shall be as the shaking of an olive tree, and as the gleaning grapes when the vintage is done.   14They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing for the majesty of the LORD, they shall cry aloud from the sea.   15Wherefore glorify ye the LORD in the fires, even the name of the LORD God of Israel in the isles of the sea.   16From the uttermost part of the earth have we heard songs, even glory to the righteous. But I said, My leanness, my leanness, woe unto me! the treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously; yea, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously.   17Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.   18And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.   19The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.   20The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.   21And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.   22And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.   23Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

Hi,
Yes this is the last days in detail. Polar shift, fire and death and destruction before the Lord Jesus, the Word of God returns as King. He is now one with the Father eternally in the Spirit and His Father God will rule through him.

Ps 2.10f
“..Take warning, O judges of the earth. Worship the Lord with reverence and rejoice with trembling. Do homage to the Son, that he not become angry..”

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2005,07:52)

Hi IAR, If “Adam” means “Man”and the words can be freely substituted then who is the “Son of Man”, the commonest description Jesus gave of himself? Surely, by your words, he too is a son of Adam?

Hello Nick, The question was answered by me many times;
The human being who is YHWH of hosts incarnate was incarnated into a body of flesh created new in the womb of the virgin for the express purpose of giving Him the LEGAL right to be KINSMAN -REDEEMER of the Adam, as His LEGAL descendent.
He is not the biological descendent of Adam or David, but is the brother of Adam, the Second Man, who was human.
He loves the title SON of Man, and used it often, for that is exactly what He is coming to rule this earth as, in His Human Being body, which He is forever in.

He is not an Adam, His name is the 'Israel', as to His human being name.
Please read ISaiah 49 to see that for yourself.

[NickHassan]

Hi I,
So when it serves you purposes it is “Adam” and when it doesn't it is “man”?
Interesting.
Is 49.2f
” From the body of my mother He named me”
” He has formed me from the womb to be His servant”

The Son of God was formed as man LIKE TO US in Mary, a son of Adam and of God. He indeed has a mother and Mary was not a surrogate mother.

” The Lord has comforted His people”
” ..I am the Lord, am your Saviour And Your redeemer ,the Mighty one of Israel”

God is the REDEEMER AND SAVIOUR – IN THE VESSEL OF HIS SON.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 21 2005,12:11)

the second man is the Lord from heaven; as Adam was the first man, Christ is the second man; and these two are spoken of, as it they were the only two men in the world; because as the former was the head and representative of all his natural posterity, so the latter is the head and representative of all his spiritual offspring: and he is “the Lord from heaven”; in distinction from the first man, who was of the earth, and whose lordship reached only to the earth; whereas Christ is Lord of all, not only Lord of lords below, but Lord of angels and saints above; the whole family in heaven and in earth is named of him; and he has all power in heaven and in earth, and a name above every name in this world, and that to come, and is indeed higher than the heavens: this is not to be understood of his human nature, or of his human body, as if that came down from heaven, and passed through the virgin, as some heretics of old said, as water through a pipe; for though it was conceived and formed in a miraculous manner, under the overshadowing of the Holy Ghost from on high, yet was formed out of the matter and substance of the virgin, and so was of the earth; and was indeed an earthly body, supported by earthly means, and at last returned to the earth, and was interred in it: but it is to be understood either of Christ as a divine person, as the Son of God, as Lord of all, coming down from heaven at his incarnation;

Hi IAR,
So FYI and Mr Gill have got it wrong here?

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 25 2005,02:31)

Hi I, So when it serves you purposes it is “Adam” and when it doesn't it is “man”? Interesting. Is 49.2f ” From the body of my mother He named me” ” He has formed me from the womb to be His servant” The Son of God was formed as man LIKE TO US in Mary, a son of Adam and of God. He indeed has a mother and Mary was not a surrogate mother. ” The Lord has comforted His people” ” ..I am the Lord, am your Saviour And Your redeemer ,the Mighty one of Israel” God is the REDEEMER AND SAVIOUR – IN THE VESSEL OF HIS SON.

Helllo Nick,
If you will re-read all my posts, you'll find that I have never claimed that the virgin was not the mother of the human flesh of the Redeemer, who was YHWH of hosts, in New Creation flesh.
The passage in Hebrews 7 that I referenced says that He has no mother, no Father, no beginning of days, no genealogy, as the Son of God. Mary was not the mother of God, who has no mother; but she was the mother of the Humanity of the YHWH of hosts from heaven, when He came into the body prepared for Him in the womb of the Virgin by the Holy Spirit overshadowing her.
The New Man, the Last Adam, the Second Man, is YHWH of hosts in fully human flesh, which flesh was created, prepared, made New, in the womb of the virgin.
He is brother to Adam, as a human, and the Firstborn of the Father, as a human, replacing Adam, the 'dead' son of God.

Adam was created as a human son of God, and made 'one', for all his offspring to be godly seed; sons of God.

But Adam is dead to that indwelling Presence of the Father, and as such, is not the godly seed that he was created to be; “But To those who received Him (YESHUA) Gave He power to become the sons of God” -by the Spirit of adoption.

The Second Man, the 'Israel' human, makes us 'one' with Him when we are adopted into His family by His Spirit when we are born again.

VS
Isa 49:1 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

In the womb of the virgin He was 'named', made, created -in body only.
The first human was named Adam, Genesis 5:2; the second human is named Israel, and is named Israel from the womb of the virgin, showing that He is not an Adam from the womb.

Isa 49:3 And said unto me, Thou [art] my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

Isa 49:5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb [to be] his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.

The verses above prove that He was in a New Creation body that had never existed before the incarnation.
Adam existed from the beginning, Day six; Israel existed from the incarnation, as to His human nature, for He was YHWH of hosts pre-incarnation.

Isa 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

The word 'salvation' is YESHUA; from YHWH, and He is the servant in His New Man human body who is the New Man, ISrael, and the old man, Adam is His brother whom He came to Redeem back to the Father, for the Presence of His glory to inhabit again, as it was in the beginning.

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2005,21:44)

Hi, If your hand reached out when you willed it to would you be surprised? If your willed your eyes to open and they did you would know they were truly part of you. So if the Son of God has never been separate from God and does not have life in himself then his obedience to the will of the Father is of no significance. It is what would be expected. Phil 2.8 ” And being found in appearance as a man he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross”

The YHWH of hosts, second Person of Elohim, is not the Father.
They counsel together in Scripture, though He counsels with no other one.
In Genesis 19 YHWH, who ate dinner with Abraham the day before, called down fire and brimstone from YHWH in heaven.

YHWH is ONE YHWH, That is His being, and He is one being.

Adam is one Adam. That is his being, and he is one being.

YHWH was not created. Adam was created by Him in His image and likeness.
When YHWH of hosts, the second Person of the (Elohim) Godhead, came incarnate, he humbled Himself from His position as Equal with Elohim, but remained the second Person of YHWH of hosts forever, for He is the same Yesterday, today, and forever.

[NickHassan]

Hi I,
1Cor 15.35
” But some will say
'How are the dead raised?And with what kind of body do they come?'
You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies”

Jn 12.24
” Truly truly I say to you, unless a seed falls to the ground and dies, it remains by itself alone”

Indeed the Son of Man died and his was the first seed sown so he could be the firstborn from the dead. His body was not imperishable but damaged unto death, till the lance pierced his side and produced only water. He had to die to be resurrected.
Mk 10.34
” And they will mock him and spit upon him, and scourge him and kill him and three days later he will rise again.”
1Cor 15 44
” It is sown a natural body it is raised a spiritual body.”

When he was first raised his body was yet earthy till he ascended to the Father. Then He became a life giving spirit, the “man from heaven” with a new heavenly body which we too hope to inherit. His God given Holy Spirit was not poured out to his followers till he returned to God. As with him the perishable must put on the imperishable.[1Cor 15.54]

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