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Quote (Guest @ July 22 2005,08:30) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2005,02:19) Thomas rightly recognised the vessel and the contents and worshipped God.
Nick Hassan,
If being a vessel for the Holy Spirit is qualification enough for being addressed as “My Lord and my God” can all spirit-filled christians rightly be addressed in like manner?If not, why not?
Hi ,
Of course not square,
For only of one, Jesus Christ, is it said in Coll 1.19
“For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell IN HIM”Quote (Guest @ July 22 2005,08:35) Jesus said “when two or more are gathered in my name I will be there”. God can be in more than one place at any one time Nick. Don't you know this?
Hi S,
So was Jesus speaking of himself or God, his Father? He is not that God, but said he is the Son of God. Do you believe him?
He was speaking of His Spirit, the portion of the Spirit of God that was in Him and then poured in his name by the Father into his body on earth-the Church.Indeed, though, as Paul told the Athenians
Acts 17.27
“.that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and exist”But he also told us to pray to our God and his God
“Our Father, who art in heaven..”When the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters in Gen 1.2 was that the third member of a triumvirate god or was it the Spirit of God as it says?
When the angel told Mary “the Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you” who was to be the Father of the Child if they are separate persons?
Matthew 18:19-21 (New American Standard Bible)
19″Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20″For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”Jesus said HE would be there in their midst Nick. If He meant His Father or The Holy Spirit He would have said as much. Honestly Nick, its little wonder you arent taken seriously by many.
Hi,
Jn 15.26
” When the helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of Truth WHO PROCEEDS FROM THE FATHER, he will testify about me, and you will testify also, because you have been with me from the beginning”It seems that The Spirit is of the Father rather than another person.
Hi,
Rom 8,9
” However you are not in the flesh but in THE Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him”Who wants to say these are not all speaking of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, that all those in Christ share?
Jn 14.23
” If anyone loves me he will keep my word, and my Father will love him and WE WILL COME TO HIM and make our abode with him”Who has seen the Father and Jesus coming to them? No one. But the Spirit of God that is the Spirit of Christ has manifested among the brothers since the time of Jesus. That is what he meant.
Quote (vicalcabasa @ July 22 2005,00:40) Quote (Cubes @ July 21 2005,18:38) Amen, Vic.
But could you please clarify the last two sentences for me?
Sure cubes,YHWH is not Jesus
YHWH is the Father of JEsus
and Jesus is the son of the Father, the one true living God.Father is not JEsus. THe FAther is in Jesus.
(THe fulness of God dwells in Him)i search search search searh, i think think think think
about the nature of Jesus
and i always come back to the same same same conclusion
that the bible has described Jesus the best.and that is…
He is the Christ, son of the living God.
Double Amen on that, Vic!Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2005,04:50) Hi I,
How many times is the Holy Spirit referred to as
“The Spirit of God”
or
“His Spirit”
or
“My Spirit”in the Word of God?
Many times. Since God is Spirit and spirit is an essential part of living beings then where does it say that God's Spirit becomes totally separate from the Source of that Spirit to the extent that it has life in itself for a separate will and personality?
It does not. Now if you expect us to accept three persons in one God [including the Spirit of God !]then surely such information would be the very important basis for such a claim.
On the surface such a claim is absurd as the Spirit is the Spirit of God no matter where and how it is expressed unless you can show the scriptural time of complete division between the different persons you describe.
The Son is said to be begotten but the Spirit?
Very good points, Nick.To: I.A.R.
Thanks for your response. Haven't read it yet, but I plan to and respond accordingly, hopefully by the end of the weekend.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2005,09:05) Quote (Guest @ July 22 2005,08:35) Jesus said “when two or more are gathered in my name I will be there”. God can be in more than one place at any one time Nick. Don't you know this?
Hi S,
So was Jesus speaking of himself or God, his Father? He is not that God, but said he is the Son of God. Do you believe him?
He was speaking of His Spirit, the portion of the Spirit of God that was in Him and then poured in his name by the Father into his body on earth-the Church.Indeed, though, as Paul told the Athenians
Acts 17.27
“.that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and exist”But he also told us to pray to our God and his God
“Our Father, who art in heaven..”When the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters in Gen 1.2 was that the third member of a triumvirate god or was it the Spirit of God as it says?
When the angel told Mary “the Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you” who was to be the Father of the Child if they are separate persons?
Hello Nick,
Is Adam the father of 'all' his seed you included? -yes, of course, but the Creator wrote the plan for each separate person who was to come forth from the Adam that He would make, and whom He would make 'one' =echad (as the 'repeated' as an echo 'one' that YHWH, the Elohim, is the only 'one' 'echad' of), in the image and likeness of God; for He sought a godly, elohim, seed, by making 'them' (Adam) one (echad)-Genesis 1:26-28; Malachi 2:15, and we all have God as our Father, and we all have Adam as our father, and we are all the one Adam.Jesus The Christ is not the biological son of Adam, but is the Son of the Father, as a human being flesh body, only, for He did not have a beginning, as to His being YHWH of hosts in that human body, and is without Father, without mother, without beginning of days and without genealogy, as the HOly Spirit wrote through the author of Hebrews to us in Hebrews 7. He has no beginning, as to days, no genealogy, no Father, no mother. He was not a created being, but is, as the Word declares, YHWH of hosts in the secodn man human body which is the only human son of the Father by creation as to His body, now: think about this;
If “YHWH, the Elohim who is One YHWH”, is the Father of the
monogenes, Jesus, The Christ, how is it that He had another son, Adam, first, and does not acknowledge him, now? -for 'he' (all we are Adam, the 'one; Genesis 5:2) 'is dead (though he exists), to the Father, and is spiritually dead to the Spirit indwelling, of the Presence of His glory.How is it that YHWH called Abraham's 'second born' son, Isaac, the “monogenes” son of Abraham;
“thy son, [01121] ben
thine only [03173] yachiyd” [son]:”,'yachiyd' means the same as the Greek 'monogenes', said of the Son of God who was YHWH from heaven in a 'second' human being body, but that human flesh body is now the yachiyd, the monogenes, although the Creator, Elohim the echad YHWH prepared a human body from the dust of the earth, as his first human son, and he was his only monogenes, when he was created.
The second human body (prepared in the womb of the virgin) was not from the seed of Adam, we see, but was a second human being body which was created as the second 'Adam' -prepared (made) as the first Adam was, by the Creator, but not from the dust of this creation, but a New creation and placed in the womb of the virgin as a 'seed', to .
YHWH, the Elohim of Israel, the One YHWH, has two human sons; but He only acknowledges the second one as His
yachiyd” , the monogenes.In His flesh of humanity, the Christ, Yeshua, YHWH of hosts, 'is come' down from His created throne in heaven, (Isaiah chapter 6; John 12:37-41) to be the yachiyd (monogenes) human son of the Father who inherits the blessing of the Firstborn, as the only begotten, though He is not the only one, as Issac was not the only one of Abraham aqnd is exalted, as a human being in flesh, above all and sits at the 'right hand' of the Creator in His human risen, glorified body.
The inheritance of the earth, Adam's dominion, is the inheritance of the Firstborn, and there is a New Firstborn, who is YHWH of hosts, come in the second human flesh body prepared by YHWH, in the Person of His Spirit, in the womb of the virgin.
yachiyd=monogenes;
1) only, only one, solitary, one
a) only, unique, one
b) solitary
c) (TWOT) only begotten sonIsrael the only one, the unique one, of the Father. Isaiah 49 shows us His name as a human being flesh Son of Man
Adam was the only one of the Father when he was created, as to His being, and from the one being, Adam, there are many persons.
YHWH the Elohim of Israel is the only one of His being, and in Adam all die, in Him, the Christ, all are made alive -but to be in Him one must be born again, in His image, the image of the New Man.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2005,08:52) Quote (Guest @ July 22 2005,08:30) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2005,02:19) Thomas rightly recognised the vessel and the contents and worshipped God.
Nick Hassan,
If being a vessel for the Holy Spirit is qualification enough for being addressed as “My Lord and my God” can all spirit-filled christians rightly be addressed in like manner?If not, why not?
Hi ,
Of course not square,
For only of one, Jesus Christ, is it said in Coll 1.19
“For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell IN HIM”
Nick,
You said;
“Hi ,
…
“For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell IN HIM”And then you said;
“Hi S,
…
He was speaking of His Spirit, the portion of the Spirit of God that was in Him… “So was all the fullness dwelling in Him, the Son, or was He only given a portion of His spirit to dwell in Him, the Son?
Which is it? It cannot be both, – which is it scripturally?http://thriceholy.net
is an excellent site proving the trinity.Quote
So, formerly, YHWH of hosts dwelt among them in the Presence of His glory seen over the Mercy Seat, where he communed with them since Solomon's temple dedication, but He is coming, He says in that passage, and He will dwell among them and YHWH of hosts is sending Him; -and in Isaiah 48:16, YHWH 'and His Spirit' hath sent Me”.Zec 2:8For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.
Zec 2:9For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.
Zec 2:10Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.
Zec 2:11And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.
So, formerly, YHWH of hosts dwelt among them in the Presence of His glory seen over the Mercy Seat, where he communed with them since Solomon's temple dedication, but He is coming, He says in that passage, and He will dwell among them and YHWH of hosts is sending Him; -and in Isaiah 48:16, YHWH 'and His Spirit' hath sent Me”.
Hi IAR:
There is no evidence that YHWH and the YHWH of hosts are two persons. They are the same person.
Secondly, from Zech 1:7: you would note that prophet
Zechariah Son of Berechiah was talking with an Angel of the LORD among the myrtle trees.
Zech 2:1-2: there is a man going forth with a measuring line to measure Jerusalem to whom Zechariah speaks.
Zech 2:3-4: The first Angel of the LORD goes to meet a 2nd Angel who gives the angel of the LORD the message of the text to be given to the “young man,” undoubtedly the prophet Zechariah. A “thus Saith the LORD (LORD of hosts)” message that begins in vs. 5.The message is from the LORD aka LORD of hosts, and is the primary “me/I” of the text. In verse 8 and 9, the “me/I” would refer to the second angel who is delivering the message to the 1st angel of the LORD to be given to Zechariah.
Having said all that, I found no way of determining the pronouns in the text as the Hebrew Lexicon at BLB at first examination does not show words for pronouns. So the above interpretation that I have given is deduced from the translation provided in the KJV.
Conclusion: by your results therefore, the 2nd angel is the LORD of hosts and Christ but I fail to see how you arrive at this conclusion.
Quote (liljon @ July 22 2005,19:05) http://thriceholy.net
is an excellent site proving the trinity.
What have they got to say, lil?Quote (Guest @ July 22 2005,04:30) Actually, He didn't complete his sentence 
Hello,
You got the First Person and the Second Person down real well; but You left the third Person out!From the Father, through the WORD -who came to inhabit human flesh as the Son of God (who had no beginning, no genealogy, no Father, no mother, as YHWH of hosts, the Word of God)
And By the Spirit.
Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
By,
by
by, His Spirit.Three in One -Israel’s “YHWH ‘our’ Elohim, who is One YHWH”.
He was not named Jesus Christ in His Pre-incarnation, for He was the Word of the LORD who framed the heavens by His spirit.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Acts 17: 28 “For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.”
Hi IAR:If you follow the trail in the OT and NT, you'll find that “GOD” leads to the Father only, one individual. It is not to say that Jesus is not the Mighty God of John 1:1 who is with the Almighty and Most High of GOD of all.
Now whatever God does, he does by his Spirit through Christ.
And whatever Christ does, he does by the Spirit of God his Father, to the glory of the Father.
The Father gives his Spirit to those that are his, by which his will is accomplished. And Christ is God's.You don't count your spirit as another person, do you? Do people relate to your spirit in one way and to you in another way?
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
When Jesus says, “God,” he means his God and Father and the Apostles understood him to mean that.Quote (Cubes @ July 22 2005,20:19) Quote (Guest @ July 22 2005,04:30) Actually, He didn't complete his sentence Hello,
You got the First Person and the Second Person down real well; but You left the third Person out!From the Father, through the WORD -who came to inhabit human flesh as the Son of God (who had no beginning, no genealogy, no Father, no mother, as YHWH of hosts, the Word of God)
And By the Spirit.
Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
By,
by
by, His Spirit.Three in One -Israel’s “YHWH ‘our’ Elohim, who is One YHWH”.
He was not named Jesus Christ in His Pre-incarnation, for He was the Word of the LORD who framed the heavens by His spirit.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Acts 17: 28 “For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.”
Hi IAR:If you follow the trail in the OT and NT, you'll find that “GOD” leads to the Father only, one individual. It is not to say that Jesus is not the Mighty God of John 1:1 who is with the Almighty and Most High of GOD of all.
Now whatever God does, he does by his Spirit through Christ.
And whatever Christ does, he does by the Spirit of God his Father, to the glory of the Father.
The Father gives his Spirit to those that are his, by which his will is accomplished. And Christ is God's.You don't count your spirit as another person, do you? Do people relate to your spirit in one way and to you in another way?
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.When Jesus says, “God,” he means his God and Father and the Apostles understood him to mean that.
Hello Cube,
Hello Cube,
If you wil turn to Zechariah 2, you will please note that One Person, who is identifying Himself as YHWH of hosts says that YHWH of hosts sent Him.“8 For thus says the Lord of hosts:
“He sent Me after glory, to the nations which plunder you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye. 9 For surely I will shake My hand against them, and they shall become spoil for their servants.
Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me.
10 “Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion!
For behold, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” says the Lord.
11 “Many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and they shall become My people.
And I will dwell in your midst.
Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me to you.
12 And the Lord will take possession of Judah as His inheritance in the Holy Land, and will again choose Jerusalem. 13 Be silent, all flesh, before the Lord, for He is aroused from His holy habitation!”
Please note: YHWH of hosts is sent by YHWH of hosts, and YHWH of hosts is coming to dwell in your midst (in Jerusalem); sent by YHWH of hosts.
If you deny this, then are you claiming a created angel is YHWH of hosts, sent by YHWH of hosts?
So you have two Persons, YHWH of hosts, one sent, the other sends.
One comes, the other does not come.
I agree Redeemed:
Isaiah 24
1Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.2And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.
3The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.
4The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
5The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
6Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
7The new wine mourneth, the vine languisheth, all the merryhearted do sigh.
8The mirth of tabrets ceaseth, the noise of them that rejoice endeth, the joy of the harp ceaseth.
9They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.
10The city of confusion is broken down: every house is shut up, that no man may come in.
11There is a crying for wine in the streets; all joy is darkened, the mirth of the land is gone.
12In the city is left desolation, and the gate is smitten with destruction.
13When thus it shall be in the midst of the land among the people, there shall be as the shaking of an olive tree, and as the gleaning grapes when the vintage is done.
14They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing for the majesty of the LORD, they shall cry aloud from the sea.
15Wherefore glorify ye the LORD in the fires, even the name of the LORD God of Israel in the isles of the sea.
16From the uttermost part of the earth have we heard songs, even glory to the righteous. But I said, My leanness, my leanness, woe unto me! the treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously; yea, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously.
17Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.
18And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.
19The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.
Zechariah 14
1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
Jesus Christ will rule from Jerusalem!
Jesus Christ is the King of Kings!
Jesus Christ is the LORD (YHWH) of Hosts!Quote (Cubes @ July 22 2005,20:19) Quote (Guest @ July 22 2005,04:30) Actually, He didn't complete his sentence Hello,
You got the First Person and the Second Person down real well; but You left the third Person out!From the Father, through the WORD -who came to inhabit human flesh as the Son of God (who had no beginning, no genealogy, no Father, no mother, as YHWH of hosts, the Word of God)
And By the Spirit.
Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
By,
by
by, His Spirit.Three in One -Israel’s “YHWH ‘our’ Elohim, who is One YHWH”.
He was not named Jesus Christ in His Pre-incarnation, for He was the Word of the LORD who framed the heavens by His spirit.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Acts 17: 28 “For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.”
Hi IAR:If you follow the trail in the OT and NT, you'll find that “GOD” leads to the Father only, one individual. It is not to say that Jesus is not the Mighty God of John 1:1 who is with the Almighty and Most High of GOD of all.
Now whatever God does, he does by his Spirit through Christ.
And whatever Christ does, he does by the Spirit of God his Father, to the glory of the Father.
The Father gives his Spirit to those that are his, by which his will is accomplished. And Christ is God's.You don't count your spirit as another person, do you? Do people relate to your spirit in one way and to you in another way?
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.When Jesus says, “God,” he means his God and Father and the Apostles understood him to mean that.
Hello cube.Is Adam one Echad?
Malachi 2:15; Genesis 1:26-28How many persons are there in Adam?
Hint; there are over six billion persons of the 'one' -echad- Adam, alive on earth at this present time; so really, the persons in Adam are uncountable, to you and me.How many Persons are there revealed in scripture in
“YHWH, the Elohim of Israel, the one (echad) YHWH?Hint; Father, Word, Spirit.
quote me; “in Zechariah 2, that One Person, who is identifying Himself as YHWH of hosts says that YHWH of hosts sent Him.
“8 For thus says the Lord of hosts:
…
Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me.For behold, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” says the Lord.
…
Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me to you.So you have two Persons, YHWH of hosts, one sent, the other sends.” unquote me
One comes, the other does not come, One is always here.
The Angel of YHWH is not a created being, but the messenger of YHWH when He comes -in the Old Testament- out from His throne to appear to man and interact with man, but not in His glory, as Isaiah and Ezekiel saw Him, in Isaiah 6 and Ezekiel 1-11.
That the Messenger of YHWH is the eternally self existant YHWH: and that He is YHWH of hosts is without question in many passages of the scriptures.
One that I would like to call your attention to is Hosea 12:3-5, and that Angel -‘messenger‘- YHWH, with whom Jacob wrestled for the blessing, is YHWH of hosts; ‘I AM THAT I AM.’ who gave Jacob His New Creation Man name, ‘Israel’ (Isaiah 49), as a sign of the promise of adoption -in His New Man image, to come.
Hsa 12:2 The LORD hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him.
Hsa 12:3 He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:
Hsa 12:4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him [in] Bethel, and there he spake with us;
Hsa 12:5 Even the LORD God of hosts; the LORD [is] his memorial.
Jacob wrestled with YHWH of hosts, whose memorial is “I AM THAT I AM”Jacob did not wrestle with the Father. He wrestled, by the word of scripture, with YHWH of hosts, in the second Person.
Hsa 12:5 Even the LORD God of hosts; the LORD [is] his memorial.
Quote (Guest @ July 22 2005,17:57) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2005,08:52) Quote (Guest @ July 22 2005,08:30) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2005,02:19) Thomas rightly recognised the vessel and the contents and worshipped God.
Nick Hassan,
If being a vessel for the Holy Spirit is qualification enough for being addressed as “My Lord and my God” can all spirit-filled christians rightly be addressed in like manner?If not, why not?
Hi ,
Of course not square,
For only of one, Jesus Christ, is it said in Coll 1.19
“For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell IN HIM”
Nick,
You said;
“Hi ,
…
“For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell IN HIM”And then you said;
“Hi S,
…
He was speaking of His Spirit, the portion of the Spirit of God that was in Him… “So was all the fullness dwelling in Him, the Son, or was He only given a portion of His spirit to dwell in Him, the Son?
Which is it? It cannot be both, – which is it scripturally?
Hi,
God is in heaven.The “fullness” includes
the full expression of God's nature
“the exact representation of His nature” Heb 1.3
and all of the powers and wisdom of God
which are then distributed among us who share the body.Jesus expressed all the gifts and powers of the Holy Spirit which are individualised in 1Cor 12-love, forbearance, hope, faith, teaching, prophecy, healing, knowledge, wisdom, miracles, distinguishing of spirits etc
No man has had all the powers and gifts since then as the body is meant to work together as his body now.
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