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Quote (Adam Pastor @ July 20 2005,07:16) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 19 2005,19:07) Adonai 136
an emphatic form of Lord
Lord
lord
lords
As in Ps 110 quoted by Jesus“the Lord [God]said to my lord[[adonai]”
This is not only used in reference to God Himself.
Greetings Nick
A slight correction:
The second word 'lord' in Psa 110:1 is not 'adonai'; it is 'adoni';
a similar nevertheless different Hebrew word!This Hebrew word is always used (in all its 195 occurrences) to differentiate human (and angelic) refs. from Deity (i.e. Adonai YAHWEH, the One GOD)
Hence, 'adoni' is never used in reference to God Himself.
Thank you,
Though in NASB it is ADONAY[136]Quote (Guest @ July 20 2005,02:46) Hello Nick,
There are some mighty lot of scriptures that say otherwise about Jesus than what you are saying.
If I am welcome, I would like to go through several scriptures that show the purpose of this creation and the fall and the redemption, and how and by Whom, from the word.They have to start with Adam and who he was, in relation to creation, and the purpose he was created for and the dominion he was given, however, to get to Jesus and 'Who' He is;
Do you believe Adam was created as the 'god of this earth'? -that is to say, as the son of Elohim, a human being, who was created on day six and given dominion over this planet and the atmosphere and all that is in them? -Hope so, for the word says so.
I have some scriptures for you to consider about that, and they relate to 'Who' Jesus Christ, as the 'Son of God', is;
The scriptures say Adam was created as son of God (Luke 3:38), and that would be the word 'Elohim', if in Hebrew; so the word says 'Adam was son of Elohim'.
Adam was created by Elohim, a plural form of the word for judge, god, ruler-; who said 'Let Us make man in our image according to our likeness”, and so 'He' made 'him' in His image, -'male and female'; then He gave Adam (male and female), dominion over the earth and atmosphere and everything in them that He had just created 'perfect' and 'good' in the five days before; Genesis 1 and 2, esp; 1:26-28.
So we see the word says Adam was a created son of Elohim, a human, and his dominion as a son of Elohim was this earth.
The first Adam was the chief, -to be father and priest, above and over his seed, before His Creator; and was made to live forever, inhabitating his dominion, for God gave him the fruit of the tree of life to eat 'freely'.
He was to multiply and fill the earth, which was created to be inhabited with the godly seed forever; his sons, the godly seed, or offspring, that were to come forth through him (Malachi 2;15) to fill the earth were given this earth as their habitation.
Psalm 8 elaborates on Genesis 1:26-28, and shows that God
crowned him with His glory, and 'son of Adam', is included in the verse to show that the plan was for man and 'son of man (Adam)' to have the dominion and crown of glory and dominion over the creation;Jesus Christ's body did not come from the loins of Adam, for Adam's seed is cursed with the death and corruption that came into the Adam family when Adam ate the fruit that was evil; but He did come as Adam's brother, the human one who inherits this kingdom as the 'Firstborn', who will now be called the 'God' of all the earth, as a human being, forever, for He, as a human being, got the birthright that Adam had been given, and as a human son of God, a brother, He has the right of redemption, as Kinsman.
Only a Kinsman could redeem, and He came as Kinsman, but no other man, no one of Adam, had any power to redeem himself or any other, for Adam was unclean, and no offering could make his vessel clean, and any offering he would bring in an unclean vessel (his cursed clay body), would not be acceptable.
Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of (Adam) man, that thou visitest him?
Psa 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
Psa 8:6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all [things] under his feet:
Now, we do not see all things under the feet of Adam, the man, but we see Jesus, says the author of Hebrews, made a fellow of man, a human, crowned above his fellows -above all human fellows, and all things will be put under His feet when He takes His ransomed kingdom and rules this earth forever in the place that Adam had been given and lost: the place of the Firstborn over all the earth.
To go over it:
As a son of God, Adam had a kingdom, then; and as son of God (male and female), He was to bring forth “Elohim seed” to inhabit this planet, says Malachi 2:15, for He created them one, having a remnant -or residue- of the spirit for He sought a godly seed to populate this planet forever.That word, translated 'godly' in Malachi 2:15, is 'Elohim' seed, and seed is offspring:
“And did not he make [06213] `asah
one? [0259] 'echad
Yet had he the residue [07605] sh@'ar
of the spirit. [07307] ruwach
And wherefore one? [0259] 'echad
That he might seek [01245] baqash
a godly [0430] 'elohiym
seed. [02233] zera`”So, not only was Adam created as a son of Elohim, a human, with a kingdom, but the creator wanted him to populate this earth with elohim sons, or offspring, according to this passage.
That brings us to the fact that God wanted this earth to be populated with the godly (the elohim) seed -'humans': for He said, in Psalm 115:16, that He gave the earth to the sons of Adam; 'ben Adam'
The heaven, [08064] shamayim
[even] the heavens, [08064] shamayim
[are] the LORD'S: [03068] Y@hovah
but the earth [0776] 'erets
hath he given [05414] nathan
to the children [01121] ben
of men. [0120] 'adamBut Genesis 3 shows us that Adam died, when He ate that fruit, and his dominion was cursed; for the immediate result was his shame of his nakedness, for the glory was no longer inhabiting him once he ate that unclean fruit; and all we, his seed, died in His loins to that original purpose, for we are not 'godly seed', with His glory inhabiting us; though we are created in His image and likeness, in Adam, and have been created to have His glory indwelling us, in our spirit (our inner holy of holies formed within us for His habitation. -Back to that later, if you allow it).
Since God gave the earth to 'ben Adam' and in Adam, all die, so none could keep themselves alive to rule the dominion -and it was cursed anyway, for the sin; then there needed to be a Redeemer if it was to fulfill His purpose for His glory to be 'all in all'.
The Redeemer had to be a kinsman, to be able to redeem, and a near kinsman.
The Redeemer had to have life to give life; He would have to have the ability to pay the Ransom price to ransom his brethren.That Redeemer chose to be our redeemer before the foundation of the world, and He is our Creator, YHWH of hosts, Himself, incarnate in the 'New creation' human being body which body is the Firstborn and only begotten of the Father -as a human being; for as YHWH of hosts, He has no geneology, no beginning, no end; only in the body that was prepared for Him by His spirit in the womb of the virgin is there a geneology, a beginning.
We are told that the First man was earthy, of this earth, but the last man is the LORD from heaven. He has the power of an endless life in His human being New Man body and will live in that body forever as the Firstborn over all the earth.
Before he came to be a fellow of man to Ransom this earth as Kinsman with the right and the power -and redeem all who will call upon His name for salvation- He was the equal with God, God's fellow, from eternity.
When God said
Hear, [08085] shama`
O Israel: [03478] Yisra'el
The LORD [03068] Y@hovah
our God [0430] 'elohiym
[is] one [0259] 'echad
LORD: [03068] Y@hovah,He told them that YHWH, (a plural) 'Elohim' is ONE YHWH;
and always, they have the 'God who is seen', who is YHWH of hosts, with whom Moses and the seventy elders dined on the mount,Exodus 24: 9-11 “Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
And they saw the God of Israel: and [there was] under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in [his] clearness.
And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.”
and He was YHWH of hosts, the God of Israel, Jesus Christ -pre-incarnation- with whom the elders ate and drank.Jer 19:3 And say, Hear ye the word of the LORD, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem;
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel;”Jer 51:33 For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel;”
1 Ch 17:
“O LORD, [there is] none like thee, neither [is there any] God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears. …
1Ch 17:24 Let it even be established, that thy name may be magnified for ever, saying, The LORD of hosts [is] the God of Israel, [even] a God to Israel:…”Zep 2:9 “Therefore [as] I live, saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel,…”
A search through the Bible tells us that the Most High is YHWH of hosts, and the Most high is the God of Israel, and YHWH of hosts is the LORD Jesus Christ and there is One YHWH but two are YHWH of hosts, in more than one passage.
Psa 83:18 “That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth.”
He is the One Person 'of' the invisible God who is seen, and is the pre-incarnate LORD Jesus Christ who appeared to men from the beginning as the only Person of God whom angels or men will ever see; for the triune God is only seen in the Person of the One who is seen as YHWH of hosts -when in His glory, as Isaiah saw Him in chapter 6 (and John said Isaiah saw Jesus as YHWH of hosts) – and as THE ANGEL of YHWH when He came out of heaven to minister to men, pre-incarnation, many times; and who is 'the God of Israel', the Most High God, YHWH of hosts.
He is YHWH of hosts who sends YHWH of hosts, in Zechariah
2:8-9;
“For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.
For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.”But YHWH of hosts is One YHWH. So YHWH is One, but there are two -in that verse- who are the One. One sends and One is sent. Both are Persons.
God is a plurality, as His choice of names, or the title, declares -“Elohim'; and He is One YHWH: but the Father is YHWH and the One who came as the full legal Son of man, through the incarnation, to inhabit human flesh, is the second YHWH of hosts, and always was with God as God.
the Father did not come to inhabit human flesh or to die upon the cross in His New Man human body. The Son is the son only as a human, but because He is the Lamb of God slain from the foundatiuon of the world, and the Son of God planned from the foundationof the world, he is entitled to be called the Son of God, even though He, as God, has no beginning. Hebrews 7:3, the Holy Spirit gave no geneology for Melchezedek, as a type of the Son who has no beginning.
“Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.”
YHWH declares that He is His equal, His fellow, and from eternity, as Paul tells us in Phillippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But that form was as YHWH of hosts from everlasting.
There is no equal to Him 'among the sons of the elohim', the created sons of God, for He is the creator.Psa 89:6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD? [who] among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the LORD?
Zec 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man [that is] my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
YHWH of hosts, LORD of heaven and earth, who had given the kingdom of this earth to Adam as his dominion under Him, is the 'fellow' of YHWH of hosts, and YHWH of hosts, from eternity.
Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting.
His goings forth have been from everlasting, from eternity.
From everlasting to everlasting, He is God; and He came to be our Kinsman-Redeemer and will, as a human being, regenerate the entire kingdom that Adam lost and He ransomed as a Kinsman and then He will turn it back to the Father, for the glory of His Presence to inhabit it in it's New creation, as He did in the lost dead, creation; and then, God will be all in all.Redemption will be complete; but He, YHWH of hosts who came incarnate, as a Son of Man, will forever be in the human being body, glorified, and be the 'Firstborn' over this earth, and the only One begotten of the father, as Isaac was a type of, in Genesis 22, and Hebrews tells us in 11:17 that Isaac was the 'only begotten' of Abraham.
“By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],”
Adam is dead and lost the inheritance (Ishmael never had the right to Abraham's firstborn blessing) but the Only begotten Son of God is alive and lives forever, as a man with an unchangable priesthood.Hbr 7:24 But this [man], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
And that rule of Firstborn He has promised to share with all who call upon His name for salvation.
Thank you for your time. I have much more to say about the eternal Deity of our Savior, YHWH of hosts, the Most High God, LORD of heaven and earth, from scripture, who took upon Himself human flesh forever, if allowed, and His redemption of Adam's seed and kingdom -and rule of it, regenerated, forever.
Welcome and great post! I know how much time and effort it takes to write something like this. I look forward to more.Be well.
Quote (Guest @ July 20 2005,07:32) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2005,05:52) Hi Y,
No the bible does not say God is three persons in one.
It says God is one.
It does not say there is any persons in God.
Jesus is not another person in God but is begotten from God.
It does not say Jesus is God [the Son] incarnate.
It says Jesus Christ came in the flesh.
God then came in Christ by His Spirit so He could not have also been that which he came in could He?
Jesus Christ is not Yahweh or the Yahweh from heaven
He is the man from heaven.
He is a priest of God.
He is a prophet of God.
Yahweh did not come in the flesh.
Yahweh is the Father of Jesus Christ who is his only begotten Son.
Just because Isaac was the “only begotten” son [but not firstborn]does not mean he was his “only” son or his “born” son.Too many “therefores” and other derived assumptions. Such is going beyond revealed truth into dangerous presumption. It is safer to stay with what is revealed than to venture into confident but unprovable speculation about the nature of God. That risks insulting both God and His Son. Fear God.
Hello N:;):,
I am curious why you said 'God is one'. -One what?The scripture says there is one God, and the scriptures say that YHWH of hosts is God, and YHWH thy Elohim is one YHWH.
Here is what YHWH of hosts said through Moses;
Hear, [08085] shama`
O Israel: [03478] Yisra'el
The LORD [03068] Y@hovah
our God [0430] 'elohiym
[is] one [0259] 'echad
LORD: [03068] Y@hovahAnd the word 'one' has several meanings, including the echo,
“…one…another, the one…the other, one after another,” (from BLB), which I first heard from a Jew who speaks Hebrew.Elohim is in the plural, and from the first, God used the plural form of that Word: Elohim said “Let us” make man in our image after “our” likeness and “He” did. -singular 'He';
so from the beginning, the Israeli's knew God as 'plural'; but He defined His plurality in Deuteronomy 6:4;
'YHWH thy Elohim is One YHWH,”
He also appeared to the elders of Israel and they ate and dined with Moses, Aaron, and the seventy, and they saw the God of Israel. That God of Israel is YHWH of hosts, the Most High God, and Moses and the elders saw Him and dined with Him.
So which Person of YHWH did Moses only see the backside of? He saw the God of Israel and dined with Him, but He could not see God and live, so there were two, there, weren't there.
Moses wrote in Genesis 19 of YHWH on earth calling down fire and brimstone on Sodom and gomorrah from YHWH in heaven, but “YHWH thy Elohim is ONE YHWH”.
So the Word has two persons, there, called YHWH of hosts, and YHWH, but “YHWH thy (plural) Elohim is One YHWH”. -the Spirit is also YHWH.
YHWH of hosts sends YHWH of hosts in Zechariah 2:8-11, and YHWH of hosts 'and' His Spirit sends Him, in Isaiah 48:16, two sent Him, and He came, -three Persons who are YHWH thy Elohim…One YHWH”
Zec 2:8 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.
For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.
Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.
And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.”
Isa 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there [am] I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
“Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”; I agree, And He is the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world, and He is the Last Adam, the second man, the firstborn of all creation, and all as a human being.
But the One who came incarnate as the firstborn and only begotten human being to redeem and rule over this earth is YHWH of hosts from heaven, therefore Paul wrote:
1Cr 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven. YHWH from heaven is Jesus Christ, second Person of the ONE “YHWH”, thy (plural) “Elohim”
And Jesus Christ has no beginning, no genealogy, no Father, no mother, as God, for He is YHWH of hosts, from eternity. and that is in Hebrews 7.
So there is One YHWH, but three Persons in that One YHWH.
One is incarnate, in a New man created human being body, called the Son of God, just like Adam was. -His purpose of being in that New creation human body is to be our Kinsman-Redeemer, Himself.
So I bow to the Son of God, YHWH of hosts who came incarnate, and worship Him as the angels in Isaiah 6 did.
On your post, Nick,
I was thinking about the One YHWH being the revealed three Persons in the Word and thinking about Adam being made n the image and likeness of God, as One being, the Adam being.YHWH is not a created being, but we, the race of Adam, are made in His image and we are 'echad' as to our being, but many 'persons'.
Please look at Malachi 2:15. God made Adam 'one', the same echoed word 'one' that YHWH our Elohim is.
And did not he make [06213] `asah
one? [0259] 'echad
Yet had he the residue [07605] sh@'ar
of the spirit. [07307] ruwach
And wherefore one? [0259] 'echad
That he might seek [01245] baqash
a godly [0430] 'elohiym
seed. [02233] zera`
Therefore take heed [08104] shamar
to your spirit, [07307] ruwach
and let none deal treacherously [0898] bagad
against the wife [0802] 'ishshah
of his youth. [05271] na`uwrYHHW 'our' ( I corrected my 'thy') Elohim is 'echad' YHWH,; and in the being, YHWH, (an uncreated being who is from eternity who created all things that exist, and has, Himself, always been and always is and always will be; in fact, that is what His name YHWH means, the One who just 'is' who just 'exists') there are revealed three Persons.
You and I are Adam, as to our being, and we were created 'one', male and female.
The word says God made Adam in His image after His likeness and he made him 'one'.We are one flesh.
Our Elohim is One YHWH.We are many persons who had a beginning.
YHWH is three Persons who never had a beginning.Hi,
God is one in nature and person.Nowhere does scripture show God to be three.
That is the teaching of men.
You are adding to scripture.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2005,08:30) Thank you,
Though in NASB it is ADONAY[136].Yep! The NASB is definitely in error here
And if memory serves me well the publishers have been informed of this error!Quote (Guest @ July 20 2005,02:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 15 2005,10:58) Hi guest,
So three persons that are not persons as we would know them as they are connected.They are not separate but part of one God and have never been individual. Well they have in a way as they all have separate roles.
They are equal. But they are not really equal as there is an authority structure and they are sent by one another.
Now the Son is begotten but he also cannot have been as he is connected still to the Father from whom he was begotten.
He has life in himself but he doesn't really as he shares the life of his Father and the Spirit and they are of one substance.
This is the God that the Jews say is one ?
Naah God is one.
The rest is fantasy.
Hello Nick,
Hello Nick,
There are some mighty lot of scriptures that say otherwise about Jesus than what you are saying.
If I am welcome, I would like to go through several scriptures that show the purpose of this creation and the fall and the redemption, and how and by Whom, from the word.They have to start with Adam and who he was, in relation to creation, and the purpose he was created for and the dominion he was given, however, to get to Jesus and 'Who' He is;
Do you believe Adam was created as the 'god of this earth'? -that is to say, as the son of Elohim, a human being, who was created on day six and given dominion over this planet and the atmosphere and all that is in them? -Hope so, for the word says so.
I have some scriptures for you to consider about that, and they relate to 'Who' Jesus Christ, as the 'Son of God', is;
The scriptures say Adam was created as son of God (Luke 3:38), and that would be the word 'Elohim', if in Hebrew; so the word says 'Adam was son of Elohim'.
Adam was created by Elohim, a plural form of the word for judge, god, ruler-; who said 'Let Us make man in our image according to our likeness”, and so 'He' made 'him' in His image, -'male and female'; then He gave Adam (male and female), dominion over the earth and atmosphere and everything in them that He had just created 'perfect' and 'good' in the five days before; Genesis 1 and 2, esp; 1:26-28.
So we see the word says Adam was a created son of Elohim, a human, and his dominion as a son of Elohim was this earth.
The first Adam was the chief, -to be father and priest, above and over his seed, before His Creator; and was made to live forever, inhabitating his dominion, for God gave him the fruit of the tree of life to eat 'freely'.
He was to multiply and fill the earth, which was created to be inhabited with the godly seed forever; his sons, the godly seed, or offspring, that were to come forth through him (Malachi 2;15) to fill the earth were given this earth as their habitation.
Psalm 8 elaborates on Genesis 1:26-28, and shows that God
crowned him with His glory, and 'son of Adam', is included in the verse to show that the plan was for man and 'son of man (Adam)' to have the dominion and crown of glory and dominion over the creation;Jesus Christ's body did not come from the loins of Adam, for Adam's seed is cursed with the death and corruption that came into the Adam family when Adam ate the fruit that was evil; but He did come as Adam's brother, the human one who inherits this kingdom as the 'Firstborn', who will now be called the 'God' of all the earth, as a human being, forever, for He, as a human being, got the birthright that Adam had been given, and as a human son of God, a brother, He has the right of redemption, as Kinsman.
Only a Kinsman could redeem, and He came as Kinsman, but no other man, no one of Adam, had any power to redeem himself or any other, for Adam was unclean, and no offering could make his vessel clean, and any offering he would bring in an unclean vessel (his cursed clay body), would not be acceptable.
Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of (Adam) man, that thou visitest him?
Psa 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
Psa 8:6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all [things] under his feet:
Now, we do not see all things under the feet of Adam, the man, but we see Jesus, says the author of Hebrews, made a fellow of man, a human, crowned above his fellows -above all human fellows, and all things will be put under His feet when He takes His ransomed kingdom and rules this earth forever in the place that Adam had been given and lost: the place of the Firstborn over all the earth.
To go over it:
As a son of God, Adam had a kingdom, then; and as son of God (male and female), He was to bring forth “Elohim seed” to inhabit this planet, says Malachi 2:15, for He created them one, having a remnant -or residue- of the spirit for He sought a godly seed to populate this planet forever.That word, translated 'godly' in Malachi 2:15, is 'Elohim' seed, and seed is offspring:
“And did not he make [06213] `asah
one? [0259] 'echad
Yet had he the residue [07605] sh@'ar
of the spirit. [07307] ruwach
And wherefore one? [0259] 'echad
That he might seek [01245] baqash
a godly [0430] 'elohiym
seed. [02233] zera`”So, not only was Adam created as a son of Elohim, a human, with a kingdom, but the creator wanted him to populate this earth with elohim sons, or offspring, according to this passage.
That brings us to the fact that God wanted this earth to be populated with the godly (the elohim) seed -'humans': for He said, in Psalm 115:16, that He gave the earth to the sons of Adam; 'ben Adam'
The heaven, [08064] shamayim
[even] the heavens, [08064] shamayim
[are] the LORD'S: [03068] Y@hovah
but the earth [0776] 'erets
hath he given [05414] nathan
to the children [01121] ben
of men. [0120] 'adamBut Genesis 3 shows us that Adam died, when He ate that fruit, and his dominion was cursed; for the immediate result was his shame of his nakedness, for the glory was no longer inhabiting him once he ate that unclean fruit; and all we, his seed, died in His loins to that original purpose, for we are not 'godly seed', with His glory inhabiting us; though we are created in His image and likeness, in Adam, and have been created to have His glory indwelling us, in our spirit (our inner holy of holies formed within us for His habitation. -Back to that later, if you allow it).
Since God gave the earth to 'ben Adam' and in Adam, all die, so none could keep themselves alive to rule the dominion -and it was cursed anyway, for the sin; then there needed to be a Redeemer if it was to fulfill His purpose for His glory to be 'all in all'.
The Redeemer had to be a kinsman, to be able to redeem, and a near kinsman.
The Redeemer had to have life to give life; He would have to have the ability to pay the Ransom price to ransom his brethren.That Redeemer chose to be our redeemer before the foundation of the world, and He is our Creator, YHWH of hosts, Himself, incarnate in the 'New creation' human being body which body is the Firstborn and only begotte
n of the Father -as a human being; for as YHWH of hosts, He has no geneology, no beginning, no end; only in the body that was prepared for Him by His spirit in the womb of the virgin is there a geneology, a beginning.We are told that the First man was earthy, of this earth, but the last man is the LORD from heaven. He has the power of an endless life in His human being New Man body and will live in that body forever as the Firstborn over all the earth.
Before he came to be a fellow of man to Ransom this earth as Kinsman with the right and the power -and redeem all who will call upon His name for salvation- He was the equal with God, God's fellow, from eternity.
When God said
Hear, [08085] shama`
O Israel: [03478] Yisra'el
The LORD [03068] Y@hovah
our God [0430] 'elohiym
[is] one [0259] 'echad
LORD: [03068] Y@hovah,He told them that YHWH, (a plural) 'Elohim' is ONE YHWH; and always, they have the 'God who is seen', who is YHWH of hosts, with whom Moses and the seventy elders dined on the mount,
Exodus 24: 9-11 “Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
And they saw the God of Israel: and [there was] under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in [his] clearness.
And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.”
and He was YHWH of hosts, the God of Israel, Jesus Christ -pre-incarnation- with whom the elders ate and drank.Jer 19:3 And say, Hear ye the word of the LORD, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem;
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel;”Jer 51:33 For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel;”
1 Ch 17:
“O LORD, [there is] none like thee, neither [is there any] God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears. …
1Ch 17:24 Let it even be established, that thy name may be magnified for ever, saying, The LORD of hosts [is] the God of Israel, [even] a God to Israel:…”Zep 2:9 “Therefore [as] I live, saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel,…”
A search through the Bible tells us that the Most High is YHWH of hosts, and the Most high is the God of Israel, and YHWH of hosts is the LORD Jesus Christ and there is One YHWH but two are YHWH of hosts, in more than one passage.
Psa 83:18 “That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth.”
He is the One Person 'of' the invisible God who is seen, and is the pre-incarnate LORD Jesus Christ who appeared to men from the beginning as the only Person of God whom angels or men will ever see; for the triune God is only seen in the Person of the One who is seen as YHWH of hosts -when in His glory, as Isaiah saw Him in chapter 6 (and John said Isaiah saw Jesus as YHWH of hosts) – and as THE ANGEL of YHWH when He came out of heaven to minister to men, pre-incarnation, many times; and who is 'the God of Israel', the Most High God, YHWH of hosts.
He is YHWH of hosts who sends YHWH of hosts, in Zechariah
2:8-9;
“For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.
For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.”But YHWH of hosts is One YHWH. So YHWH is One, but there are two -in that verse- who are the One. One sends and One is sent. Both are Persons.
God is a plurality, as His choice of names, or the title, declares -“Elohim'; and He is One YHWH: but the Father is YHWH and the One who came as the full legal Son of man, through the incarnation, to inhabit human flesh, is the second YHWH of hosts, and always was with God as God.
the Father did not come to inhabit human flesh or to die upon the cross in His New Man human body. The Son is the son only as a human, but because He is the Lamb of God slain from the foundatiuon of the world, and the Son of God planned from the foundationof the world, he is entitled to be called the Son of God, even though He, as God, has no beginning. Hebrews 7:3, the Holy Spirit gave no geneology for Melchezedek, as a type of the Son who has no beginning.
“Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.”
YHWH declares that He is His equal, His fellow, and from eternity, as Paul tells us in Phillippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But that form was as YHWH of hosts from everlasting.
There is no equal to Him 'among the sons of the elohim', the created sons of God, for He is the creator.Psa 89:6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD? [who] among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the LORD?
Zec 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man [that is] my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
YHWH of hosts, LORD of heaven and earth, who had given the kingdom of this earth to Adam as his dominion under Him, is the 'fellow' of YHWH of hosts, and YHWH of hosts, from eternity.
Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting.
His goings forth have been from everlasting, from eternity.
From everlasting to everlasting, He is God; and He came to be our Kinsman-Redeemer and will, as a human being, regenerate the entire kingdom that Adam lost and He ransomed as a Kinsman and then He will turn it back to the Father, for the glory of His Presence to inhabit it in it's New creation, as He did in the lost dead, creation; and then, God will be all in all.Redemption will be complete; but He, YHWH of hosts who came incarnate, as a Son of Man, will forever be in the human being body, glorified, and be the 'Firstborn' over this earth, and the only One begotten of the father, as Isaac was a type of, in Genesis 22, and Hebrews tells us in 11:17 that Isaac was the 'only begotten' of Abraham.
“By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],”
Adam is dead and lost the inheritance (Ishmael never had the right to Abraham's firstborn blessing) but the Only begotten Son of God is alive and lives forever, as a man with an unchangable priesthood.Hbr 7:24 But this [man], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
And that rule of Firstborn He has promised to share with all who call upon His name for salvation.
Thank you for your time. I have much more to say about the eternal Deity of our Savior, YHWH of hosts, the Most High God, LORD of heaven and earth, from scripture, who took upon Himself human flesh forever, if allowed, and His redemption of Adam's seed and kingdom -and rule of it, regenerated, forever.
Hi,
Fine words but empty ones.God was not made incarnate when Jesus was conceived of the Spirit of God and Mary. Jesus Christ is not Yahweh but the Son of Yahweh God. All this teaching about God being a multiple being deny His nature as the original God who begat a Son and created all through him.
Yahweh did not come in the flesh. Jesus Christ came in the flesh and he is not that God but the Son of that God as he said he was.
2Cor 5.19
“God was IN Christ reconciling the World to Himself”
God was not
Christ but IN Christ.In flesh Jesus Christ the son of David, is the magnificent vessel, the Son of God who brought God, as Spirit, to His people. The rest is speculation and those who fear God do not take that road.
Quote (vicalcabasa @ July 16 2005,12:47) hi guest 2,
on the contrary your conclusion is not simple.
So if YHWH is a person and the father is a person and the holy spirit is a person and the word is a person, that would make 4 persons in all, right?unless of course you want to make it mystical and complicated by explaining to me the mystery of the 3 in 1 godhead.
To vicalcabasa,I am enjoying your posts. I hope to hear more from you.
Quote U continue to be amazed at the fertile imaginations of some who will find “supportive scriptural evidence” for any theories they entertain about God. They find some possible inconsistency or disparity and use such induced doubts to try to bolster their doctrines such as God is “three in one” or “Jesus is Yahweh”.
You have said Yahweh is the Father – but ignore scripture that clearly shows Yahweh was seen by many people at different times. Whether a vision – or not – seeing Yahweh is seeing Yahweh…
Jesus was pretty blunt about Father… but you first have to accept His words about the Father before you can see that the Father was NOT revealed to man at all until Jesus revealed Him to us.
Matthew 11:27
“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.John 6:46
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.If no one even knows the Father – or has even seen Him – yet the OT is full of Yahweh – how can you make Jesus a liar by insisting Yahweh MUST be the Father?
Quote (Christofer @ July 21 2005,05:44) You have said Yahweh is the Father – but ignore scripture that clearly shows Yahweh was seen by many people at different times. Whether a vision – or not – seeing Yahweh is seeing Yahweh…
Who shall I believe? You or:1 John 4:12
No one has ever seen God; ….;1 Timothy 1:17 (English-NIV)
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.
Amen.;1 Timothy 6:15-16 (English-NIV)
15 which God will bring about in his own time, God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen..Quote (Guest @ July 20 2005,09:03) Quote (Guest @ July 20 2005,07:32) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2005,05:52) Hi Y,
No the bible does not say God is three persons in one.
It says God is one.
It does not say there is any persons in God.
Jesus is not another person in God but is begotten from God.
It does not say Jesus is God [the Son] incarnate.
It says Jesus Christ came in the flesh.
God then came in Christ by His Spirit so He could not have also been that which he came in could He?
Jesus Christ is not Yahweh or the Yahweh from heaven
He is the man from heaven.
He is a priest of God.
He is a prophet of God.
Yahweh did not come in the flesh.
Yahweh is the Father of Jesus Christ who is his only begotten Son.
Just because Isaac was the “only begotten” son [but not firstborn]does not mean he was his “only” son or his “born” son.Too many “therefores” and other derived assumptions. Such is going beyond revealed truth into dangerous presumption. It is safer to stay with what is revealed than to venture into confident but unprovable speculation about the nature of God. That risks insulting both God and His Son. Fear God.
Hello N:;):,
I am curious why you said 'God is one'. -One what?The scripture says there is one God, and the scriptures say that YHWH of hosts is God, and YHWH thy Elohim is one YHWH.
Here is what YHWH of hosts said through Moses;
Hear, [08085] shama`
O Israel: [03478] Yisra'el
The LORD [03068] Y@hovah
our God [0430] 'elohiym
[is] one [0259] 'echad
LORD: [03068] Y@hovahAnd the word 'one' has several meanings, including the echo,
“…one…another, the one…the other, one after another,” (from BLB), which I first heard from a Jew who speaks Hebrew.Elohim is in the plural, and from the first, God used the plural form of that Word: Elohim said “Let us” make man in our image after “our” likeness and “He” did. -singular 'He';
so from the beginning, the Israeli's knew God as 'plural'; but He defined His plurality in Deuteronomy 6:4;
'YHWH thy Elohim is One YHWH,”
He also appeared to the elders of Israel and they ate and dined with Moses, Aaron, and the seventy, and they saw the God of Israel. That God of Israel is YHWH of hosts, the Most High God, and Moses and the elders saw Him and dined with Him.
So which Person of YHWH did Moses only see the backside of? He saw the God of Israel and dined with Him, but He could not see God and live, so there were two, there, weren't there.
Moses wrote in Genesis 19 of YHWH on earth calling down fire and brimstone on Sodom and gomorrah from YHWH in heaven, but “YHWH thy Elohim is ONE YHWH”.
So the Word has two persons, there, called YHWH of hosts, and YHWH, but “YHWH thy (plural) Elohim is One YHWH”. -the Spirit is also YHWH.
YHWH of hosts sends YHWH of hosts in Zechariah 2:8-11, and YHWH of hosts 'and' His Spirit sends Him, in Isaiah 48:16, two sent Him, and He came, -three Persons who are YHWH thy Elohim…One YHWH”
Zec 2:8 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.
For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.
Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.
And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.”
Isa 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there [am] I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
“Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”; I agree, And He is the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world, and He is the Last Adam, the second man, the firstborn of all creation, and all as a human being.
But the One who came incarnate as the firstborn and only begotten human being to redeem and rule over this earth is YHWH of hosts from heaven, therefore Paul wrote:
1Cr 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven. YHWH from heaven is Jesus Christ, second Person of the ONE “YHWH”, thy (plural) “Elohim”
And Jesus Christ has no beginning, no genealogy, no Father, no mother, as God, for He is YHWH of hosts, from eternity. and that is in Hebrews 7.
So there is One YHWH, but three Persons in that One YHWH.
One is incarnate, in a New man created human being body, called the Son of God, just like Adam was. -His purpose of being in that New creation human body is to be our Kinsman-Redeemer, Himself.
So I bow to the Son of God, YHWH of hosts who came incarnate, and worship Him as the angels in Isaiah 6 did.
On your post, Nick,
I was thinking about the One YHWH being the revealed three Persons in the Word and thinking about Adam being made n the image and likeness of God, as One being, the Adam being.YHWH is not a created being, but we, the race of Adam, are made in His image and we are 'echad' as to our being, but many 'persons'.
Please look at Malachi 2:15. God made Adam 'one', the same echoed word 'one' that YHWH our Elohim is.
And did not he make [06213] `asah
one? [0259] 'echad
Yet had he the residue [07605] sh@'ar
of the spirit. [07307] ruwach
And wherefore one? [0259] 'echad
That he might seek [01245] baqash
a godly [0430] 'elohiym
seed. [02233] zera`
Therefore take heed [08104] shamar
to your spirit, [07307] ruwach
and let none deal treacherously [0898] bagad
against the wife [0802] 'ishshah
of his youth. [05271] na`uwrYHHW 'our' ( I corrected my 'thy') Elohim is 'echad' YHWH,; and in the being, YHWH, (an uncreated being who is from eternity who created all things that exist, and has, Himself, always been and always is and always will be; in fact, that is what His name YHWH means, the One who just 'is' who just 'exists') there are revealed three Persons.
You and I are Adam, as to our being, and we were created 'one', male and female.
The word says God made Adam in His image after His likeness and he made him 'one'.We are one flesh.
Our Elohim is One YHWH.We are many persons who had a beginning.
YHWH is three Persons who never had a beginning.
Hi,
God had no beginning.The only begotten Son of God derived solely from God and had a beginning in the beginning. He is not the original though his origins be “from everlasting”-before time.
Scripture says about the Son of God, Jesus Christ:
He is the “first born of all creation”. What firstborn is still it's own Father as well?
He is “The firstbo
rn from the dead”. God did not die.
“He is the image of the invisible God”. What image is part of what it images?
“He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature”. What representation is also that which it represents?It still amazes me that men cannot take God at His Word and know Him and the Son He sent. Instead they want to remake God as three according to the vain images of their minds.
Quote (Christofer @ July 20 2005,04:25) Quote And Yeshua is demonstrated in these scriptures not to be YHWH so I think you need to accept that at face value. If no man had seen the Father – yet Isaiah saw Yahweh – who is Yahweh -at face value? Yahweh can't be the Father without Jesus being made a liar – can He? This is something I have been studying – and the more I dig – the more it seems Jesus HAD to be YHWH – and the Father was unknown to men until Jesus revealed the Father
God is Spirit.
God is Invisible.
But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.” -NIV Ex 33:20christofer, What Isaiah saw in IS 6:1 was the vision of God. please read other versions of the bible(NIV, KJV)
God spoke in the past in various ways, but in the end times god spoke thru his son.
God spoke thru prophets, angels, dreams, visions.Even the Beloved JOhn in rev 22:6, after seeing the vision knelt down to worship the angel. john who saw jesus face to face still mistaken an angel as God.
THose prophets never saw God.
Quote (Christofer @ July 20 2005,02:20) Where is YHWH applied to the Father?
I will tell the promise that the LORD made to me.
You are my son, because today i have become your Father.
Psalm 2:4'Elohim, “God”: This is the most frequently used name in the Old Testament, as its equivalent theos, is in the New Testament, occurring in Gen alone approximately 200 t. It is one of a group of kindred words, to which belong also 'El and 'Eloah. (1) Its form is plural, but the construction is uniformly singular, i.e. it governs a singular verb or adjective, unless used of heathen divinities (Ps 96:5; 97:7). It is characteristic of Hebrew that extension, magnitude and dignity, as well as actual multiplicity, are expressed by the plural. It is not reasonable, therefore, to assume that plurality of form indicates primitive Semitic polytheism. On the contrary, historic Hebrew is unquestionably and uniformly monotheistic.
It is the reasonable conclusion that the meaning is “might” or “power”; that it is common to Semitic language; that the form is plural to express majesty or “all-mightiness,” and that it is a generic, rather than a specific personal, name for Deity, as is indicated by its application to those who represent the Deity (Judg 5:8; Ps 82:1) or who are in His presence (1 Sam 28:13).
(from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright Â1996 by Biblesoft)Elohim means plurality of God’s majesty. Not plurality of 3 YHWHs in one ELOHIM.
Honestly I’m amazed how you did able to distinguish 3 different YHWHs in the OT
Quote (vicalcabasa @ July 20 2005,14:26) 'Elohim, “God”: This is the most frequently used name in the Old Testament, as its equivalent theos, is in the New Testament, occurring in Gen alone approximately 200 t. It is one of a group of kindred words, to which belong also 'El and 'Eloah. (1) Its form is plural, but the construction is uniformly singular, i.e. it governs a singular verb or adjective, unless used of heathen divinities (Ps 96:5; 97:7). It is characteristic of Hebrew that extension, magnitude and dignity, as well as actual multiplicity, are expressed by the plural. It is not reasonable, therefore, to assume that plurality of form indicates primitive Semitic polytheism. On the contrary, historic Hebrew is unquestionably and uniformly monotheistic. It is the reasonable conclusion that the meaning is “might” or “power”; that it is common to Semitic language; that the form is plural to express majesty or “all-mightiness,” and that it is a generic, rather than a specific personal, name for Deity, as is indicated by its application to those who represent the Deity (Judg 5:8; Ps 82:1) or who are in His presence (1 Sam 28:13).
(from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright ©1996 by Biblesoft)Elohim means plurality of God’s majesty. Not plurality of 3 YHWHs in one ELOHIM.
Honestly I’m amazed how you did able to distinguish 3 different YHWHs in the OT
I find the Three YHWH”s in the Old Testament by reading the Old Testament, itself, rather than what those who deny the word of God say.If a man says what the word does not say, then he is not speaking in truth. If a man takes one scripture and says it denies another scripture, he is not speaking the truth.
How about the verse in Malachi 2:15 that I posted fully, showing that the Creator created 'them' 'echad', male and female, for He sought a 'elohim' seed (offspring)?
So “YHWH our Elohim is echad YHWH” is understood by the word, itself to mean that the plural God who said;
And God [0430] 'elohiym
said, [0559] 'amar
Let us make [06213] `asah
man [0120] 'adam
in our image, [06754] tselem
after our likeness: [01823] d@muwth
and let them have dominion [07287] radah
over the fish [01710] dagah
of the sea, [03220] yam
and over the fowl [05775] `owph
of the air, [08064] shamayim
and over the cattle, [0929] b@hemah
and over all the earth, [0776] 'erets
and over every creeping thing [07431] remes
that creepeth [07430] ramas
upon the earth. [0776] 'eretsSo God [0430] 'elohiym
created [01254] bara'
man [0120] 'adam
in his [own] image, [06754] tselem
in the image [06754] tselem
of God [0430] 'elohiym
created [01254] bara'
he him; male [02145] zakar
and female [05347] n@qebah
created [01254] bara'
he them.'let us make man in our image and likeness' and 'He' made 'him' in 'His' image and likeness male and female made He them.
The word echad is used in Malachi 2:15 about man being made one because Elohim sought elohim seed.
Adam is one being, one flesh.
Adam is many persons.
that is what the word of God says.YHWH our Elohim is one (echad) YHWH, a plural word, a singular being, three persons.
In fact, YHWH is His name in the same manner that Adam is the name of the first creation of human beings, and that name denotes His eternally self existing unchangeable nature:
He just 'IS” the “I AM THAT I AM”, the same yesterday, today, and forever, He does not change.When He, YHWH of hosts who was sent by YHWH of hosts, as I posted from Zechariah 2, came to this earth to inhabit the New Man created body, He was not a created being inhabiting that body, but YHWH of hosts from eternity inhabiting that body; the same YHWH of hosts who said YHWH of hosts sent Him.
the body only was a New creation, as He could not come into a human body from Adam's seed, that would be 'possession' for YHWH of hosts created all Adam 'one' flesh having the 'remnant of the spirit' and that 'one' flesh is from the loins of Adam the first, but was written and planned to have being from the foundation of the world, in the Book of Life.
If YHWH of hosts had not created a New human body to inhabit, when He came to be our Kinsman Redeemer, then He could not be our Redeemer, as He would have been defiled in the Adam being, and possessing an Adam being, which is not scripturally kosher.
The first man is from beneath, of the earth, the las man is YHWH from heaven, as He told us in His Word.
You have the record of John, in 12:37-41, that Isaiah saw Jesus Christ as YHWH of hosts in Isaiah chapter 6.
You have the record of YHWH of hosts, Himself, that YHWH of hosts -and His Spirit, sent Him to be our Redeemer in the New Man human being body; in fact, His Spirit prepared a body for Him in the womb of the virgin, He says, when He came to inhabit that New human being body as Adam's brother with the power -and the legal right- to redeem all Adam who will call upon His name and Adam's lost kingdom.
I post scripture and it is self explanatory, YHWH of hosts and His spirit sent YHWH of hosts.
The Son of God is fully human, and He is YHWH of hosts without beginning of days or end of life, without a Father, without a mother, without a genealogy Hebrews 7.
God is Three Persons, One YHWH, from everlasting to everlasting, without beginning or end.
Man is many persons, one Adam, created in the image and likeness of God to exist forever, either in His Presence redeemed by the blood of the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world, or cast into the lake of fire forever in the outer darkness where His light never shines.
If you do not believe that “I AM”, you shall die in your sins, He told the Jews. They knew what He meant, being Torah readers; they had no doubt, but though He came unto His own, His own did not receive Him, but as many as received Him He gave the power to become the sons of God -redemption back to our original purpose in creation, 'sons of God” glorified and living in the kingdom that the Father prepared for us from the beginning of the world, regenerated and made New by the Redeemer Kinsman, YHWH of hosts in New Man human flesh.
Quote (t8 @ July 20 2005,10:37) Quote (vicalcabasa @ July 16 2005,12:47) hi guest 2,
on the contrary your conclusion is not simple.
So if YHWH is a person and the father is a person and the holy spirit is a person and the word is a person, that would make 4 persons in all, right?unless of course you want to make it mystical and complicated by explaining to me the mystery of the 3 in 1 godhead.
To vicalcabasa,I am enjoying your posts. I hope to hear more from you.
YHWH of hosts, our Elohim, is ONE YHWH.
YHWH of hosts -and- His Spirit sends YHWH of hosts
YHWH of hosts was coming to inhabit human flesh and He did come and is in human flesh glorified, and will come to rule this creation that He ransomed back for the glory of the Presence of the Father to be 'all in all' again.YHWH is seen as three Persons in the word of God;
1 the Father, whom no man can see nor has seen, for He is unapproachable light, and whom no angel has seen, for He is the invisible God who creates 'habitations' for His own Presence of glory to inhabit, as His temple, and creates all things through the 'Word' and the 'Spirit'-all three Persons were involved in our creation and counseled together (Genesis 1:26-28), in the creation, yet He had no counselor, says the word, when He created all things, for He did it 'alone' 'by Himself', as He has told us, and there was no one whom He counseled with when He created all things, yet, in genesis 1:26-28, He takes ciounsel among Himself, the 'YWWh our Elohim who is One YHWH'.
Isa 40:10-15; “Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong [hand], and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward [is] with him, and his work before him. (Jesus, YHWH Elohim is spoken of here, for He is the One 'coming')
He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry [them] in his bosom, [and] shall gently lead those that are with young.Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?
Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or [being] his counsellor hath taught him?
With whom took he counsel, and [who] instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?
Behold, the nations [are] as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.”
He counseled with no one, yet He counsels among Himself, YHWH our elohim, one YHWH, three Persons.
2 the Word who was the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world, who as the incarnated YHWH of hosts is the Son of God, a human being in New creation human flesh, YHWH of hosts from heaven in that New Man flesh for the purpose of being our legal Kinsman- Redeemer,
3 and the Spirit, who sent YHWH of hosts -in fact, He, the Spirit, prepared the body for Him, YHWH of hosts to inhabit, in the womb of the virgin, says the word of God.
A. Jesus cannot be YHWH because when he quoted YHWH, he quoted YHWH as his God and/or Father, not as “self” quotes.
From Matt 4:
Three times he was tempted by Satan in the wilderness, and he responded with scriptures that point to YHWH:Temptation 1) If thou be the son of God change the stones into bread.
JESUS: MAN shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of YHWH. (Matt 4:3, 4; Deut 8:3)He considers himself man in relationship to YHWH.
Temptation 2) And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
JESUS: you shall not tempt YHWH thy God. (Matt 4:6, 7; Deut 6:16)
When Jesus says this, he is responding to the temptation that GOD/YHWH should be deliberately provoked and tested. We all know that Jesus said if needed he could ask his Father to send legions of angels to his aid.
Jesus could have said right there: it is written, Do not tempt me, IF, as you propose, he was YHWH. We don't see that here. BTW, Satan knows who's who as does Jesus. The Most High God and Almighty of Ps 91 is the the GOD in question to whom Jesus refers his answer…who is shown to be YHWH according to the OT references.
Temptation 3) Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
JESUS: Mat 4:10; Exodus 34:14, Deut 6:13 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the LORD thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
In this response, Jesus differentiates himself from YHWH. He is not talking about worshipping himself. Your unsubstantiated theories convolutes straightforward scriptures like that.
But here is the thing:
Do you really believe that Satan stood before GOD ALMIGHTY himself, The Living God who sits on his Throne and dared to speak to him let alone tempt him? Three times? When he showed up in Job, God himself initiated the conversation. He showed up with the Sons of God if I recall correctly… and I wondered why fallen ones like that would even dare approach God's presence and then I remembered that he creates even the evil and the wicked for the evil day.
So that's one profile.
Quote (Cubes @ July 14 2005,19:13) Quote 13. Did Isaiah write that the voice would prepare the way before YHWH?
14. Was that same voice identified as John the Baptist in the NT?
15. Did John the Baptist prepare the way before Jesus?13. Yes.
14. Yes.
15. Yes, as Jesus comes in the Father's stead, according to scripture, to declare the Father to us.A study of Mal 3:1 in association with a lexicon would indicate that Jesus is not YHWH, if YHWH is the LORD of Hosts. I found “to his temple” interesting. 01964 HEYKAL.
It turns out that the phrase is at the discretion of the translators, as it could have easily read “to the Temple of the LORD.” or simply “to the Temple.”Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Luk 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
Thus Jesus is Lord, but John prepared the way of the LORD indirectly by preparing the way of the Lord His only begotten Son, is my understanding.
How do I arrive at this conclusion? Because Jesus is not the Highest(Luke 1:35; and is also the Messenger of the Covenant Mal 3:1, which is consistent with Deut 18:15f and all of scripture).
Moreover the entire prophecy of Zechariah (see next post), differentiates between the two: the Lord God of Israel vs the Horn of Salvation raised up in the House of David whom we also know to be Lord Jesus.
I'll be interested to know what others think so far.
Confirmation scripture to show that John The Baptist prepared our Lord Jesus' way as unto the Highest/YHWH, indirectly:Mat 11:9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
Mat 11:10 For this is [he], of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
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