- This topic has 4,515 replies, 99 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 5 months ago by
.
- Posts
Hi J'
Paul said in 2Cor
” For the Son of God, Christ Jesus, who was preached among you by us..”
And Acts9
“He is the Son of God”Hi J,
There are many more witnesses to this truth in scripture by those who knew. Do you need more?
Does your opinion have as much validity as these?Hi,
Jesus Christ is the Son of God who partook of flesh. He is not the God of the bible but he serves that God. That God is his Father. He is not also, or part of, the Father of the Son of God.Hi FYI,
Rev 1.1f
” The revelation of Jesus Christ
which God gave him
to show to his bondservants, the things which must shortly take place;
and he sent and communicated it by His angel
to His bondservant John who bore witness to the word of God
and to the testimony of Jesus Christ”The message is from God given to Jesus, transmitted by the angel to man.
God is no more Jesus than the angel is John.
All are individual.
Quote (liljon @ July 08 2005,18:39) GOD THE FATHER is not Jesus. But Jesus is YHWH.
Aramaic Peshitta:Original for “YHWH” in Aramaic is “MarYah”
Luke 2:9. And behold an angel of God came to them. And the glory of the LORD (MarYah=YHWH) shone upon them and they feared with a great fear! 10. And the angel said to them, ?Do not have fear, for behold I announce hope to you! A great joy which will be to the whole world. For today is born to you in the city of Dawid the Savior who is the LORD (MarYah=YHWH), the Messiah. 12. And this is a sign to you, you will find an infant who is wrapped in swaddling clothes and lying in a manger.? 13. And at that instant the great host of heaven appeared with the angel, glorifying God and saying, ?Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace and good hope to the sons of men.
Hi A,
The only begotten Son of God was born of His Father and Mary and later he was filled with the Spirit of God and was used as a vessel for his Father to do His work in.John 1: 1. In the beginning was the Miltha1. And that Miltha was with God. And God was that Miltha. 2. This was with God in the beginning. 3. Everything existed through His hands, and without Him, not even one thing existed of the things, which have existed. 4. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5. And that light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overtake it. 6. There was a man who was sent from God whose name was Yukhanan. 7. This man came for a witness that he might testify concerning the light that all might believe through his hand. 8. He was not the light; rather that he might bear witness concerning the light. 9. For the light was of truth, that which shines on all who come into the world. 10. He was in the world, and the world existed by his hand and the world did not know him. 11. He came to His own, and his own did not receive him. But those who did receive him He gave to them authority that they might be the sons of God, those who have believed in His name. 13. Those who neither by blood nor by the will of the flesh nor by the will of a man, rather were begotten by God. 14. And the Miltha became flesh and dwelt among us and we saw his glory, the glory as the Only-Begotten2 who is from the Father who is full of grace and truth. 15. Yukhanan witnessed concerning him and cried out and said, “This is he whom I said would come after me, and yet be before me because he was earlier than me. 16. And from his fullness we all have received and grace on account of grace. 17. Because the law was given through Moshe, but truth and grace through Yeshua who was the Messiah. 18. Man has not ever seen God. The Only – Begotten of God, He who is in the bosom3 of his Father, He has declared Him.
1. “Miltha” has no direct English equivalent. It can mean “Word”, “Manifestation”, “Instance” or “Substance”, among many other things. In this context, it may be best left untranslated.
More info:
Hi,
Yes. The Son of God who was with God was sent by God and enabled by the Spirit given from God into him to do the work of God.JESUS according to Jesus, Stephen, and Moses:
JESUS:
Luke 24:25 Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?”
27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself….
44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”
45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, *and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,
47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things.STEPHEN:
Acts 7:37 “This is that Moses who said to the children of Israel,* 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him* you shall hear.'MOSES:
Deuteronomy:18:15 “The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear, 16 according to all you desired of the Lord your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, 'Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, nor let me see this great fire anymore, lest I die.'
17 “And the Lord said to me: 'What they have spoken is good. 18 I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. 19 And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him. 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.Jesus cannot be YHWH. And God is not a trinity… unless we are willing to consider that God is also a prophet…. a prophet to whom?
And don't forget that Jesus is a High Priest. Priests serve God.Jesus according to Isaiah:
Isaiah 53
Who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant,
And as a root out of dry ground.
He has no form or comeliness;
And when we see Him,
There is no beauty that we should desire Him.
3 He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.4 Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He opened not His mouth;
He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,
And as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment,
And who will declare His generation?
For He was cut off from the land of the living;
For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
9 And *they made His grave with the wicked–
But with the rich at His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was any deceit in His mouth.10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him;
He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,
He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,
And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.
11 *He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.Compare to:
Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
Trinitarians, Modalists, etc.: Jesus who being in the form of God, who humbled himself to become one of us, do you really perceive him to be the same BEING/GOD in Isaiah 53 who speaks of his servant?
I don't even know how to formulate my question, is the servant and the God in Isaiah 53 the same being? If so then what do we make of Moses and what Jesus said of himself in my previous post here today? We are not talking about a verse here and there… but an expounding of who Jesus is.Beautiful cubes,
Matt 4.14f
“This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the Prophet…….
..the people who were sitting in darkness have seen a GREAT LIGHTand those who were sitting in the land and shadow of death, upon them A LIGHT dawned”
Jn 1.4
“IN HIM was life and the life was the LIGHT of men. THE LIGHT shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it”
Lk 1.78f
” Because of the tender mercy of our God, with which THE SUNRISE FROM ON HIGH will visit us, to shine upon those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death”The Son of God is that GREAT LIGHT. He brings within him too the source of that light, the glory of God to visit mankind.
Refuting Eliseo Soriano's False Teaching–Biblically
by Justyn
“But what do you have to do? Accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your Personal Lord and Savior. To a bookish like the writer, (bookish because the Bible does not permit opinions and private interpretations) it sounds foolish and impertinent because no one can prove Jesus Christ is a personal Lord or personal Savior to anybody.” (See Notes)
RefutationAlmost all organized religious cults of Christianity are appalled by the fact of accepting or receiving Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior. Did the evangelical Christians invented the statement and rammed it on the throat of every person they meet or, is it a biblical admonition that every sane person must do to be saved? Surely it is, because this truth was written by Paul when he wrote to the Colossian believers regarding their past action of receiving Jesus in a personal basis and not as a group or as a congregation,
“As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him.” (Col. 2:6)
Soriano might create a big deal on the transliteration done by the King James Version scholars, that is “received Christ Jesus the Lord” and not “received Christ Jesus as Lord.” In this area, we have to consider the audience of Paul who does not have enough background on who Jesus was. Therefore, accepting “Jesus the Lord” is more necessary. In countries exposed to Christianity, the phrase “receiving Jesus as Lord” is more fitting. This is so because millions of people in those countries who already knew about this Jesus but according to them is just a “prophet,” a “good teacher,” a “man,” a “god,” or an “angel,” etc–not the true God who came in human flesh. Therefore, it is only proper to introduce this Jesus on the basis of His claim on who He really is. The word “Lord” does not only mean “Master” because it was translated from the Greek word kurios/kyrios which literally means “YHWH”. If you will study the New Testament history, you will understand that most of the Old Testament quotations cited by the apostles during their time including Jesus Himself came from the Septuagint (LXX), a Greek translation of the Old Testament (e.g., Acts 1:20; 2:17-21; 25-28; 34-35; Rom. 3:10-18) And this doctrine about Jesus being God is true when we read the apostle Paul quoting from the Septuagint translation of Isaiah 45:23,“That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear”
and applying it to Jesus in Phil. 2:10,11 (NIV)“That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow… and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord [Gk. kurios, YHWH], to the glory of God the Father.”
Jesus is the Yahweh/God of the Old Testament and He should be received by every sane human being on the face of the earth. So accepting Jesus as Lord (from the Greek word, Kyrios, from the Hebrew word, Yahweh) will mean salvation for that person. Does that mean there are two or three Yahwehs? Of course not, for it is possible to believe in one Yahweh/God in three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and without contradicting the Old and New Testament doctrine about the belief on one God (i.e. monotheism).In fact, before Jesus was born, His earthly mother already understood the implication of having a personal Savior by stating:
“My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.” (Lk.1:46, 47)
The apostle Thomas also exemplified his acceptance of Jesus to be his own Lord by confessing:My Lord” and not “Our Lord” (Jn. 20:28)
Conveying Jesus to be his own Lord making it a personal acceptance. (Note: This is not an “expression” of surprise or fear) Is it that important to know who the real Jesus is? Yes! Consider Jesus words,“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.” (John 8:24)
Isaiah also said this:
Isaiah 9:6 – For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Zechariah said this:
Zechariah 12:10 – And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
The Angel of MarYah (YHWH) said this:
Luke 2:10. And the angel said to them, “Do not have fear, for behold I announce hope to you! A great joy which will be to the whole world. For today is born to you in the city of David the Savior who is MarYah (YHWH), the Messiah.”
Hi guest:
Thanks for your contribution, and I wholeheartedl agree that Jesus is Lord of Creation. No man comes to the Father except through him and he is my Lord indeed.
But that is not the point, is it? The point is this: Is he the same BEING as YHWH/FATHER/GOD ALMIGHTY as the majority of other christians propose? You haven't said that he is, unless I missed it. I'd better read your post again.
I declare on the authority of the above scriptures and others that shall follow that he is not. It is important to note that he is JESUS CHRIST, SON OF THE LIVING GOD. So I am not here to diminish the son of God. Rather, to discover him as if for the first time because so much confusion has crept in over the ages. Thanks be to God that his word does not pass away and a lot of us can have access to it. Let's make good use of it in our time.
And based on those scriptures above, it totally makes sense that Jesus should pray to his Father and call him, “MY God.”
It makes sense that he should sit at his Father's righthand in glory, having overcome; the whole puzzle fits. Not so with the Trinity for now we must explain why a Prophet and High Priest are the same being as God Almighty. And answer questions like “who died on the cross?” etc. And “is YHWH our brother?,” and “Are we co-heirs with YHWH?” All these questions are aptly answered by the truth: Jesus is not the Living God but rather he is the Son of the Living God. Period.And thanks, Nick: Funny you should mention Zechariah's prophecy in Luke 1. It is one of the scriptures that I'd like to examine after I've given our friends a chance to answer us as “guest” has.
Quote … because this truth was written by Paul when he wrote to the Colossian believers regarding their past action of receiving Jesus in a personal basis and not as a group or as a congregation, I agree: It is most definitely a personal decision and judgment is on a personal basis. You can find that in Deuteronomy 18:18-19; & John 3:18.
Quote And this doctrine about Jesus being God is true when we read the apostle Paul quoting from the Septuagint translation of Isaiah 45:23, “That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear”
and applying it to Jesus in Phil. 2:10,11 (NIV)“That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow… and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord [Gk. kurios, YHWH], to the glory of God the Father.”
Aah, but you are overlooking the fact that in Jesus case, this glory is bestowed upon him by the Father.
Quote Jesus is the Yahweh/God of the Old Testament and He should be received by every sane human being on the face of the earth. So accepting Jesus as Lord (from the Greek word, Kyrios, from the Hebrew word, Yahweh) will mean salvation for that person. Does that mean there are two or three Yahwehs? Of course not, for it is possible to believe in one Yahweh/God in three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and without contradicting the Old and New Testament doctrine about the belief on one God (i.e. monotheism). You have not defended or established this. You believe it but it is not based on scripture so I urge you to reconsider your belief.
Quote “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.” (John 8:24) That is why you need to believe that he is the One whom the Father sent. Again, consider Deuteronomy 18:18-19 and John 3:18.
As for Mary's song, I believe that it was a song to the Father— it has reverberations of Miriam's and Hannah's songs in the OT which were addressed to YHWH. Mary did not give birth to YHWH. If so then who fathered YHWH?
Questions abound.
Ok – I just finished reading the posts on this thread (some are waaaaay over my pea brain
! I do have a question, is it possible that YHWH is Yeshua? If YHWH is not the name of God and I am not saying that God and Jesus are one or the same person. But could it be possible that YHWH of the OT is also Yeshua? I apologize if my question seems infantile, however I am enjoying this site, GBU! Diana
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
