Who is this Jesus?

[NickHassan]

Hi liljon,
Is Jesus Christ sitting at the right hand of God or is he that God ?[thus denying scripture]

[liljon]

God can be in two places at one time as I previously said .

[Proclaimer]

To liljon,

So if we are at the right hand of God, (which we are) then are we God too?

Luke 22:69
But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God.”

But you say that he is that God.

Acts 5:31
God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.

Scripture says at the right hand of God as the prince and saviour, but you say as God.

So why should I believe your words over scripture?

[NickHassan]

Hi liljon,
God's Spirit is everywhere in His creation, but God is in heaven according to scripture

[Proclaimer]

Quote (liljon @ Jan. 28 2005,10:31)

John 20:28 Thomas called him His God and Lord and 2 peter and titus 2:13 calls him Our God. 1 John 5:20 Jesus is the True God.

To liljon,

To be blunt about it, you are brainwashed and that is why you defend the Trinity doctrine even against reason. I know this because you cannot accept all or any of the scriptures that contradict your belief. Instead you supply other scriptures that seem to backup what you say. The trouble is the scriptures you provide do not teach the Trinity if you look at them clearly and in context. The one you seem to rest on the most is a known fraud and addition to the KJV. This is well documented and accepted among scholars of all persuation. The scriptures even say that people will do this. i.e. hearing only what they want and listening to teachers who preach what they want to hear.

I recommend that you become heart-washed as opposed to brain-washed. If you have the correct spirit, you will love the truth. This is one way we recognise the true Spirit.

I say this with respect my friend. I was once brainwashed like you. But I thank God that I love truth and was able to come out of that deception. Thank you God for that. When I believed the Trinity doctrine it was because of ignorance. But how can we plead ignorance when we have been told or shown clearly such things from scripture?

liljon, you have the following choice as we all do.

1) Accept and be humbled by truth
2) Defend your view even if it contradicts scripture.

Here is truth:

[liljon]

I am not brain washed Scripture revealed who jesus was to me and what scripture says we are at god's right hand?
Romans 9:5 of whom are the fathers and from whom Christ came, according to the flesh, He who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen
Rev2:23 I will kill her children by death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

[NickHassan]

Keep searching liljon,
The Father is not the Son of The Father.
“Rev 513″… To Him who sits on the throne AND TO THE LAMB, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.”

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 28 2005,19:18)

“Rev 513″… To Him who sits on the throne AND TO THE LAMB, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.”

Hmmm, looks a little like the Lamb is being worshipped here……

[NickHassan]

Hi MM
Beware of speculation and presumption.

I do not see the word worship.

Liljon,
Read Coll 3 1-3 and you will see we who are in Yeshua are at the right hand of the Father.

[Anonymous]

Hi Nick,
Just curious. Could you explain how you interpret the scriptures which say we are “in Christ”, does this mean we have a literal 'organic union' with Him, that we in essence lose our identity and become Jesus? or is it a figure of speech? How do you see it Nick?
Thanks

[Proclaimer]

Quote (liljon @ Jan. 29 2005,10:30)

I am not brain washed Scripture revealed who jesus was to me and what scripture says we are at god's right hand? Romans 9:5 of whom are the fathers and from whom Christ came, according to the flesh, He who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen Rev2:23 I will kill her children by death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

I challenge you liljon to show me the foundation of true faith and I ask you what foundation you are building on?

thx

[NickHassan]

Hi MM,
With pleasure.
To enter the body of Christ requires repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus.
Gal 3.26 f
” For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptised into Christ have clothed yourself with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek,there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female;for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise”

Rom 6.3f” Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptised into Christ Jesus have been baptised into his death?……For if we have been united with him in the likeness of his death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness to his resurrection….For the wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord”

The relationships and roles in the body are specified in 1 Cor 12 and Eph 4 etc.

God appoints us and equips us in the Spirit with specific gifts [which should be sought1Cor 12.7,14.1] and abilities[which we should know and use 1Tim 1.6]. We need to find our role and fulfill it. We should also discern and relate to the other members of his true body of earth of which he is the head.

We are the eyes and hands [and every other role]the Lord Jesus does his work through till he returns.

I only hope you are not asking so we can together help build up the work of that body on earth. That is the will of God for us.

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 29 2005,00:33)

Hi MM, With pleasure. To enter the body of Christ requires repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus. Gal 3.26 f ” For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptised into Christ have clothed yourself with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek,there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female;for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise” Rom 6.3f” Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptised into Christ Jesus have been baptised into his death?……For if we have been united with him in the likeness of his death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness to his resurrection….For the wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” The relationships and roles in the body are specified in 1 Cor 12 and Eph 4 etc. God appoints us and equips us in the Spirit with specific gifts [which should be sought1Cor 12.7,14.1] and abilities[which we should know and use 1Tim 1.6]. We need to find our role and fulfill it. We should also discern and relate to the other members of his true body of earth of which he is the head. We are the eyes and hands [and every other role]the Lord Jesus does his work through till he returns. I only hope you are not asking so we can together help build up the work of that body on earth. That is the will of God for us.

Nick,
I asked you for your interpretation of the verses, not the verses themselves. Are we literally 'in' Jesus, sitting at the right hand of the Father?

Also, I don't understand what you mean when you say:

Quote

I only hope you are not asking so we can together help build up the work of that body on earth. That is the will of God for us.

Can you explain please

[NickHassan]

Hi MM,
Why don't you do the homework then and tell us your understanding?

I am interested in building up the Body of Christ. Are you? No offense but it would be nice to know whether we share the same vision or will we just waste energy and damage our faith arguing?

[Anonymous]

Relax Nick, i'm not trying to back you into a corner or trap you in an error. Although if you make a statement like this:

Quote

Read Coll 3 1-3 and you will see we who are in Yeshua are at the right hand of the Father.

You should be willing to defend it.

All I really wanted from you was your understanding of this term “in Christ”. What does it really mean to be in Christ? And how can we, the church, be in Christ Jesus and the bride of Christ at the same time.

Warm regards

[NickHassan]

Hi MM,
Fair enough. Thank you the extra information. It clarifies the question somewhat . While I am working on it what do you make of 1Peter 3.15?

[NickHassan]

Hi MM,
As you know God uses different allegories about the same person or thing to bring forth different meanings. Rev 5 speaks of Yeshua as the Lion of Judah in verse 5 then a lamb who has been slain in the next verse.
Rev 21 2″ And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem , coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a BRIDE adorned for her husband”
Gal 4.23
” For it is written that Abraham had two sons , one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the freewoman through the promise. This is allegorically speaking , for these women are two covenants;one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves;she is Hagar.Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. but the Jerusalem above is free, she is our mother for it is written
'Rejoice barren woman who does not bear.Break forth and shout , you who are not in labour.For more numerous are the children of the desolate than oif the one who has a husband'
And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of the promise.But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. But what does the scripture say?
'Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman'
So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman but of the free woman”
The Old Covenant does not save.
The New does.This is the new Jerusalem and those in her are in Yeshua.

The Song of Songs too is full of references too to the love between the bridegroom and the bride.
Yeshua also spoke often of the wedding feast, the bridegroom coming and the waiting bridesmaids etc.

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 29 2005,08:38)

what do you make of 1Peter 3.15?

Nick, which part of the verse do you mean?
This part:

Quote

15But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord.

this part:

Quote

Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.

…or this part?:

Quote

But do this with gentleness and respect,

[NickHassan]

Sorry .First part. It has to do with our relationship with Jesus and there seems to be a wide variety of interpretations. The common NASB of “Santify” seems to make little sense. Yeshua is holy.

[Anonymous]

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 27 2005,07:01)

Matthew 16:16-18 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. So I refuse to let the gates of Hades to overcome this truth to me. Yeshua is the Messiah and the Son of God. I build on this foundation. You build on the Trinity doctrine, (Greek philosophy). I also offer you the following: John 16:27   No, the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God. John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. So liljon, it is eternal life to believe that God sent Jesus Christ and that Jesus came from God. So what do you offer if I change that belief and follow yours?

t8,
When Jesus said “on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it” he was referring to Peter, the man, not his declaration. And the gates of Hades would not overcome the church, of which peter was instrumental in building.

[Author]

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