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Terraricca wrote:
Quote Is it possible to interpret what i have said differently???
as you could read it and understand itI do not know but I have seen many things interpreted in ways that do not seem sensible to me.
Terraricca wrote:
Quote you believe; I also admit that there may be those who are fully mature even from the moment they are reborn.
to me the true shepherd is leading to make you know the word of God. So Christ frees you of the world and men.
the false teachers like to enslave you so you follow them constantly and so you give them access to all your own either in your hearth or your wallet. And so you now follow men.
I follow what you are stating to this point and agree with it.
Terraricca wrote:
Quote the scripture should be our light.
That is true and not true depending on your heart. It is true that obeying all of Jesus’ teachings lead to life but it is not true if you neglect to look to the author of our salvation. Here is how Jesus words my concern.
John 5:39-40(NIV) reads:
Quote You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
KW
wen i said let the scriptures be your light ,i did not mean study them like the Jews did or some of today extremist believing that it takes to know Hebrew and Arameian,and Greek,in a so perfect way that without them you can not come to Christ or the father,
Christ in his days came to the humble in hearth ,they knew the scriptures and were made perfect in there knowledge trough Christ.
so the word of God as to be our guide not men,
Jn 11:10 It is when he walks by night that he stumbles, for he has no light.”
Jn 12:35 Then Jesus told them, “You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. The man who walks in the dark does not know where he is going.
Jn 12:36 Put your trust in the light while you have it, so that you may become sons of light.”Jn 17:20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,
Jn 17:21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.Jn 20:31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
this is how i see light.
Terraricca,
That relieves my concern. I agree that Jesus is the light and belief that he is the Anointed One of God leads us to receive and live by the Holy Spirit. In this way we become one in righteousness with Jesus and God.
Jesus is not just a Human being like all of us. He is the Son of God. He had the Holy Spirit full strength. He knew where He came from, otherwise He could have never said what He did in
John 17:5 “And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was.John 6:38 “For I have come down from Heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him that send Me.”
John 3:17 But God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but t hat the world through Him might be saved. So all those that do not believe that Christ Jesus preexisted, please explain these Scriptures to me. I believe the way they are written…..
IreneHi KW,
There is nothing written about Jesus being anointed with the Spirit of holiness prior to the Jordan is there?
It is after that time the Spirit did God's powerful ministry through him.[Lk4.1]Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 09 2010,04:05) Hi KW,
There is nothing written about Jesus being anointed with the Spirit of holiness prior to the Jordan is there?
It is after that time the Spirit did God's powerful ministry through him.[Lk4.1]
It is not written he had the spirit or did not have the spirit early in life but it is a point of faith that no human being can be righteous without walking according to the spirit of righteousness.Hi KW,
God was with him.
His real Father.Not an absent or neglectful or just a historical father.
He learned the hard way to stay out of trouble[Heb12, Is 53]
nick
Jesus was anointed and then recieved the approval of his father,this was the begining of his kingdom.
the same with David wen he was anointed he became king,he had to wait so is Christ.Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote If he was born a different kind of man that becomes impossible.
Compared with Adam, he was a different type of man in that he is a prototype of a human being who walks according to the Holy Spirit and not according to the spirit of this world which is why we are taught:
Romans 5:12-17(KJV) reads:
Quote Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote
We follow this man.That we do if we obey all his teachings and thus are formed after his model which is why it is written.
Romans 8:15(KJV) reads:
Quote For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
And
Galatians 4:6(KJV) reads:
Quote And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Hi KW,
Wrong again.
He was not led by the Spirit within till the Jordan.[Lk4.1]We follow by the Spirit of grace
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote He was not led by the Spirit within till the Jordan.[Lk4.1]
Luke 4:1(KJV) reads:
Quote And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
I have two points in response.
The first point is that this scripture does not state that this is the first or last time he was led by the Spirit. Al we know is that this is one time what is possibly many that he is led by the Holy Spirit.
The second point is I mean “led by the Holy Spirit” in a different way that this scripture used the clause. Here is what I mean.
Galatians 5:16(KJV) reads:
Quote This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
My argument is:
Jesus did not fulfill the lust of the flesh at any point in his life.
The only way a human being can do that is if they walk in the Spirit.
A human can only walk in the Spirit if he has the Spirit to begin with.
Therefore Jesus has the Spirit at all points in his life.Hi KW,
You have also shown no evidence that he was empowered by the Spirit before the Jordan and I think most agree that is when his ministry started.
As you say being led by the Spirit is not possible till you are reborn of the Spirit and many never mature as half the bridesmaids of Mt 25 shows.
Jesus was anointed by the Spirit because he was found as a suitable and clean vessel though tempted in all ways his Father guided his every step.No superman but just as we are, no headstart or unfair advantage as God is near to all men, we can follow him into his anointing and power and eternal life
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote … and many never mature as half the bridesmaids of Mt 25 shows.
The story about the bridesmaids is about perseverance and being prepared at all times. Still sadly many do not persevere till they reach full maturity and afterwards.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote As you say being led by the Spirit is not possible till you are reborn of the Spirit and ….
I am glad we agree since this it is a point of faith that no one can do right with God living in them and doing his good works and God lives in human beings through the Spirit of Holiness.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Jesus was anointed by the Spirit because he was found as a suitable and clean vessel though tempted in all ways his Father guided his every step.
You are mistaken as Jesus did not receive the Spirit because of his righteousness but rather because of God’s grace as it is written that God has mercy on whom he has mercy and compassion on whom he has compassion and it is also prophesized that:
Isaiah 52:1(KJV) reads:
Quote Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
The clause “mine elect” means God selected him and the words “I uphold” means kept him from sinking in to the mire of sin..
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote You have also shown no evidence that he was empowered by the Spirit before the Jordan and ….
On the contraire while you have shown no evidence that Jesus was not empowered by the Spirit before the Jordon and the evidence I supplied is that he did not sin even though tempted as we are. Also it is written.
Isaiah 7:14(KJV) reads:
Quote Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
It is by the Holy Spirit that God lives within Jesus and through Jesus in his true students.
John the Baptist knew the situation which is why before he baptized Jesus he said:
Matthew 3:13-14(KJV) reads:
Quote John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Nick Hassan wrote:
… and I think most agree that is when his ministry started.
I agree that his ministry to the Jews and Samaritans started after he was baptized by John the Baptist and took a “Spirit Wall” in the desert. I believe that his baptism by John served as an anointing into that career.
Hi KW,
Oil symbolises anointing and the vital anointing of men is of the Spirit.
Men can receive of the Spirit [Jn20]but not yet be baptised in that Spirit[L24, acts 2].Jesus emphasised his relationship to men by mostly calling himself the Son of man.
But you would make him advantaged and different to us?
You can follow him??He obeyed the law in every way in the eyes of God and thus was found a clean vessel.
He justified the OT law as being capable of leading men to righteousness.
But we find that righteousness by repentance and baptism into him.Hi KW,
Before the Jordan we only know that he had only gained great wisdom from the Word.
The baptism in the Spirit gives power as Jesus and the book of Acts show.
“Stay in the city till you are clothed with power from above”Nick and kerwin, are you not both of you forgetting that Jesus was in Heaven with His Father before the world was. He had the Holy Spirit of the Father full strength. He knew where He came from, like I said before…. Do you really think otherwise He could have gone into the Temple at age 12 and teach like He did. I don't think so….
Irene
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Before the Jordan we only know that he had only gained great wisdom from the Word.
The evidence of Jesus’ life before his baptism at the hands of John the Baptist is scant but we are assured he never sinned even though he was tempted by evil even as we are. The only way a human being can resist sin that completely according to scripture is if you walk according to the ways of the spirit of righteousness.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote The baptism in the Spirit gives power as Jesus and the book of Acts show.
It is also written:
1 Corinthians 12:7(KJV) reads:
Quote But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
Therefore, if there was no need for power the spirit would not have manifested power until the need for it occurred.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Jesus emphasized his relationship to men by mostly calling himself the Son of man.
But you would make him advantaged and different to us?
My point is that Jesus has the Spirit and in that way he has an advantage over and is different than those who are not reborn in Spirit. That is why he is our King and the model that we are adopted after.
It is also written:
Psalms 22:9-10(KJV) reads:
Quote But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts. I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
and
Psalms 71:6(KJV) reads:
Quote By thee have I been holden up from the womb: thou art he that took me out of my mother's bowels: my praise shall be continually of thee.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote He obeyed the law in every way in the eyes of God and thus was found a clean vessel.
Righteousness cannot be obtained without God and “the righteous live by faith”.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote He justified the OT law as being capable of leading men to righteousness.
Galatians 2:21(KJV) reads:
Quote I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote But we find that righteousness by repentance and baptism into him.
That is how we receive the Spirit of holiness that he lived by and thus are made after his model.
Hi KW,
That is why Jesus said to first seek the kingdom.
Only putting on his righteousness can be gained by us prodigal sons
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