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Hi KW,
“All living bodies have flesh is a statement of fact.”really?
Do you have any scriptural support for this?
If it is a fact relating to matters of spiritual things would it not be written somewhere or is logic enough?
You seem to base such ideas on your observations from the visible world but is that all there is for you?
Hi KW,
You quote,'And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.'
Sleeping in sheol is true for men but what does that have to do with their rotted flesh?
Hi,
Paul was eager to shed his flesh tent so that he would be raised in another immortal body and not be found naked.[1Cor5]No fleshly future for the sons of the resurrection.
Flesh is a burden with it's demands.Hi KW,
We live in flesh FOR A TIME.[1 Peter 4.2, Phil 1.22-3, Heb 5.7, rom7.5]When a man dies his flesh rots away and eventually his bones too.
When Jesus met with Elijah and Moses were they still flesh beings do you think?Hi KW,
Genesis is not the beginning of life but only the establishment of visible earthly creation.
Angels who are not of earthly flesh watched as God laid the foundations of earth.As the fruit of God's breath into the dust of the visible created earth we are tempted to see only what our fleshly eyes can perceive but the invisible is far older and more important.
God is not of flesh and neither are his angels except by God's appointed choice for a season so when God created man in His image it was not a s flesh but as a living soul.
The salvation of the souls of men is the plan of God [1Peter 1.9] and the visible world and the vain distraction of the current earthly creation is passing away.Hi KW,l
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.[1Cor15]
But you think the flesh of Jesus entered heaven??Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2010,08:43) Hi KW,
“All living bodies have flesh is a statement of fact.”really?
Do you have any scriptural support for this?
If it is a fact relating to matters of spiritual things would it not be written somewhere or is logic enough?
You seem to base such ideas on your observations from the visible world but is that all there is for you?
What an absurd point. I have no scriptural proof that Jesus went bathroom when he walked on the earth and yet I am sure he did.It is points like what you made which make you look like a legalist.
You seem to not believe God exists and therefore can be seen in all his creation.
God truths are both in an out of scripture just like it is written.
Proverbs 1:20(KJV) reads:
Quote Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
You are showing contempt for God's cry in the street and listening to the falsehood that has been indoctrinating in you.
Can you prove my example false by providing an example where a living creature does not have skin?
But scripture does state the process of resurrection as an example of how God restores spiritual life to his people.
Ezekiel 37:3-14(KJV)
Quote And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote If it is a fact relating to matters of spiritual things would it not be written somewhere or is logic enough?
Logic is only a tool and can be misused so it is certainly not enough. It has to be based on godly principles.
Since the only thing you can prove by logic alone is that “I think therefore I am” you must make assumptions. These assumptions are based on faith, wisdom, and the desire for righteousness.
Not all matters relating to spiritual things are written as God left many for us to search out. Scripture tells us this quite often as Jesus and his students came speak a message that was not in scripture though scripture testified of it and it fulfilled scripture. The prophets of old also spoke what was not in scripture though they neither added or subtracted from the Law of Mosses.
In some cases we need information outside of scripture to properly understand scripture. God has his reasons for this., An extreme example is this is that one needs to know the English language to understand scripture written in English.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Sleeping in sheol is true for men but what does that have to do with their rotted flesh?
It is their body and soul that sleeps in the dust of the earth and it is their body and soul that awakes from the dust and takes on life once more. Ezekiel 27.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Flesh is a burden with it's demands.
That is a Gnostic/Neo-Platoism teaching and not one of God’s. God did not burden Adam and Eve. God did not make a mistake when he created man from the earth.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote When Jesus met with Elijah and Moses were they still flesh beings do you think?
I believe they were as the disciples proposed building shelters for them and Jesus. Luke 9:33, Mark 9:5.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote God is not of flesh and neither are his angels except by God's appointed choice for a season so when God created man in His image it was not a s flesh but as a living soul.
Where is it written that angels have no flesh?
I have read where they do as Lot had contact with ones skin and two ate with him.
I agree that God has no flesh but then he has no body as he is everywhere.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.[1Cor15]
Why do you keep cut short that sentence? Does it disturb you that is also states “or shall the perishable inherit the imperishable”? I mention this because the second part of that scripture gives more of the context for the first and without that context you can misunderstand the first.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote But you think the flesh of Jesus entered heaven??
I am confident that the immortal flesh of Jesus entered heaven as he was changed. I do not believe as you seem to that he became a ghost in order to enter heaven. I also do not believe angels are ghosts with the ability to resurrect at will.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2010,01:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2010,08:43) Hi KW,
“All living bodies have flesh is a statement of fact.”really?
Do you have any scriptural support for this?
If it is a fact relating to matters of spiritual things would it not be written somewhere or is logic enough?
You seem to base such ideas on your observations from the visible world but is that all there is for you?
What an absurd point. I have no scriptural proof that Jesus went bathroom when he walked on the earth and yet I am sure he did.It is points like what you made which make you look like a legalist.
You seem to not believe God exists and therefore can be seen in all his creation.
God truths are both in an out of scripture just like it is written.
Proverbs 1:20(KJV) reads:
Quote Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
You are showing contempt for God's cry in the street and listening to the falsehood that has been indoctrinating in you.
Can you prove my example false by providing an example where a living creature does not have skin?
But scripture does state the process of resurrection as an example of how God restores spiritual life to his people.
Ezekiel 37:3-14(KJV)
Quote And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
Hi KW,
We are not discussing science or logic as they are weak measures of the visible.I ask you again to give some support from scripture to your concept of SPIRITUAL FLESH and all living bodies being of FLESH. Otherwise it remains a rather bizarre and worldly opinion.
Is God of flesh/dust?
He lives.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2010,01:55) Nick Hassan wrote: Quote If it is a fact relating to matters of spiritual things would it not be written somewhere or is logic enough?
Logic is only a tool and can be misused so it is certainly not enough. It has to be based on godly principles.
Since the only thing you can prove by logic alone is that “I think therefore I am” you must make assumptions. These assumptions are based on faith, wisdom, and the desire for righteousness.
Not all matters relating to spiritual things are written as God left many for us to search out. Scripture tells us this quite often as Jesus and his students came speak a message that was not in scripture though scripture testified of it and it fulfilled scripture. The prophets of old also spoke what was not in scripture though they neither added or subtracted from the Law of Mosses.
In some cases we need information outside of scripture to properly understand scripture. God has his reasons for this., An extreme example is this is that one needs to know the English language to understand scripture written in English.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Sleeping in sheol is true for men but what does that have to do with their rotted flesh?
It is their body and soul that sleeps in the dust of the earth and it is their body and soul that awakes from the dust and takes on life once more. Ezekiel 27.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Flesh is a burden with it's demands.
That is a Gnostic/Neo-Platoism teaching and not one of God’s. God did not burden Adam and Eve. God did not make a mistake when he created man from the earth.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote When Jesus met with Elijah and Moses were they still flesh beings do you think?
I believe they were as the disciples proposed building shelters for them and Jesus. Luke 9:33, Mark 9:5.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote God is not of flesh and neither are his angels except by God's appointed choice for a season so when God created man in His image it was not a s flesh but as a living soul.
Where is it written that angels have no flesh?
I have read where they do as Lot had contact with ones skin and two ate with him.
I agree that God has no flesh but then he has no body as he is everywhere.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.[1Cor15]
Why do you keep cut short that sentence? Does it disturb you that is also states “or shall the perishable inherit the imperishable”? I mention this because the second part of that scripture gives more of the context for the first and without that context you can misunderstand the first.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote But you think the flesh of Jesus entered heaven??
I am confident that the immortal flesh of Jesus entered heaven as he was changed. I do not believe as you seem to that he became a ghost in order to enter heaven. I also do not believe angels are ghosts with the ability to resurrect at will.
Hi KW,
Logic is a tool of worldly philosophy and we should rely rather on the wisdom God offers in scripture. Test logic by God's wisdom and not the reverse.People often claim access to divine understandings that are not written [as we have seen with gnostic catholicism] when they try to justify their traditions but we should dig deeper and rely of scripture when it comes to spiritual matters.
Hi KW,
God did not make a mistake when man was created from the dust of earth.
Earth had been stolen and made empty and void by the god of this earth, the serpent, and God wanted it back using dust man as his means.
Adam failed because he preferred the knowledge of good and evil to the eternal life giving Spirit but the second Adam brought access to this grace and enabling treasure.Jesus was not a ghost and is no more of a ghost now than his God or the angels are.
But the invisible world is far more relevant than the visible which is a distraction because it is before our eyes.Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom
Hi KW,
In support of this I offer Gen 1 when it is shown that the earth ALREADY EXISTS by Genesis 1.1.We know nothing of the time called THE BEGINNING before genesis 1 and I speculate that earth may have had other life forms on it[? dinosaurs] prior to becong formless and void.
Satan too is called the serpent twice in Revelation as well as being called in other places the god or prince of this world. He convinved Eve to obey him despite warnings from God and Adam followed her lead into rebellion and idolatry thus cutting themselves off from God.
KW
just remember that somewhere in the scripture about balaam and barak ,the prophet donkey could speak but the prophet could not see the angel,
was that a transparent flesh body
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 01 2010,02:14) KW just remember that somewhere in the scripture about balaam and barak ,the prophet donkey could speak but the prophet could not see the angel,
was that a transparent flesh body
We see what the Lord lets us see.The angel was obviously not a phantasm as the donkey was wise enough to fear the sword he saw and stove to avoid the angel in every way she could until the angel blocked he path.
In verse 31 we are told the the Lord opened Balaam's eyes and he finally saw the angel who was there all the time.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2010,08:01) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 01 2010,02:14) KW just remember that somewhere in the scripture about balaam and barak ,the prophet donkey could speak but the prophet could not see the angel,
was that a transparent flesh body
We see what the Lord lets us see.The angel was obviously not a phantasm as the donkey was wise enough to fear the sword he saw and stove to avoid the angel in every way she could until the angel blocked he path.
In verse 31 we are told the the Lord opened Balaam's eyes and he finally saw the angel who was there all the time.
KWdid he really saw the angel or was it an illusion ,did the angel materialize in front of the prophet
can that be done out of flesh
a angel as a body but i would not say it is flesh,but it is a heavenly spiritual body ,or sort of.?
Nick Hassan,
Ezekiel 37 may have a hidden meaning as well as the obvious meaning as some scriptures do. It may also be speaking of the resurrection to come as the scripture also fits that event.
Never the less my purpose was to show that resurrection involves the reconstruction of the human body including skin and flesh.
Leviticus 17:11(KJV) reads:
Quote For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
According to this scripture life is in the blood.
If that is so then how can a creature live without blood?
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Jesus was not a ghost and is no more of a ghost now than his God or the angels are.
What you describe is a ghost as a ghost is a soul without a flesh and blood body.
God is a unique case and may be termed a phantasm except he has no body and is everywhere.
Hi KW,
You say
“I agree that God has no flesh but then he has no body as he is everywhere.”God IS in heaven.
Jesus told us to pray TO HIM there.[Mt6]
But He manifests by His Spirit within creation and within those who are reborn from above and is close to all men[Acts17]…so not quite everywhere.
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